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Originally posted by JediGeek

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Also, don't forget to use the NEW cover sheets on the TPS reports.  Did you get the memo?

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Originally posted by Malickiebloo

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Originally posted by Shayde

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Originally posted by Obraik
There are more professions then just Jedi.  Let's see how the other 8 (we'll see one more this Friday) pan out before saying they lied. 

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I'd bet serious money you'll never see all of the other 8.

Where's those CH skills they promised?

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Ch skills were never promised , that I know of . Link please ?

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There appears to be a lot of confusion on this subject.

Smed (11/25/05)

We couldn't make changes of this magnitude without changing some things that people loved - creature handlers for example are among the most upset. This was an example of something that was near and dear to people (including myself btw). It's one of the coolest parts of the game. It's one that's only gone in the short term - we'll be bringing it back in a different form in the near future once we work through the consequences of how we can make this core system work within the new framework. It won't be a profession in and of itself, but something people  can do as part of the existing professions.

Now, Smed apparently had a change of mind (likely when he discovered that the talentless hacks working for him couldn't figure out a way to have pets work in this new combat system) and changed when the CH skills would be introduced.

Smed (3/24/06)

I'm going to elaborate on this one - the devs aren't going to be adding Creature Handlers back to the game per se. They will at some point be adding a pet skill back to the game.. but it's not on the priority list and is likely outside the scope of the current publish plan.

Smed

So at that time CH skills were moved from the near future to "outside the scope of the current publish plan."  Those players that thought they were promised CH skills were just speculating that it would be added in with the expertise system.

Kenshu there is something wrong with your dates on that. 

That said... SWG is dead and has been dead since release.  Raph Koster made a half-assed game... got taken off the project and replaced by lower level n00bs who had no idea what they were doing (but liked to play  EQ2 and WoW) and now it is a steaming pile.  I think the ONLY thing the OG game was missing was content.  Then they got into the CU and RUINED EVERYTHING.  Then they REALIZED what the players were asking for and RUINED THE GAME AGAIN! 

How you ruin something thats already broke I will never know.

I do love the fact that LA is trying to court Obsidian to make SWG2.  That is nice.

I really liked the OG game... I just wanted something to do.  Raph gave us nothing.  Its sad to see a good idea get killed... then beatin to a bloody pulp.  Then sent through a processor salted and made into hot dogs.  Then left out in the sun... in the desert to rot.  Then beaten again...

oh well...

Edited for n00b spelling

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Originally posted by boommer99

Kenshu there is something wrong with your dates on that. 

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Originally posted by KenshuAni

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Originally posted by boommer99

Kenshu there is something wrong with your dates on that. 

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Oops.  Corrected

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oh and to the point of the thread... yes the SWG Devs think everyone playing the game are a bunch of fools.  They know their game is crap and cannot understand why people keep giving them money.

To be honest if I was in their position I would probably think the people paying me were idiots too.

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Originally posted by boommer99

I really liked the OG game... I just wanted something to do.  Raph gave us nothing.  Its sad to see a good idea get killed... then beatin to a bloody pulp.  Then sent through a processor salted and made into hot dogs.  Then left out in the sun... in the desert to rot.  Then beaten again...

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Originally posted by Obraik
There are more professions then just Jedi.  Let's see how the other 8 (we'll see one more this Friday) pan out before saying they lied. 

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Originally posted by thefixer

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Originally posted by boommer99

I really liked the OG game... I just wanted something to do.  Raph gave us nothing.  Its sad to see a good idea get killed... then beatin to a bloody pulp.  Then sent through a processor salted and made into hot dogs.  Then left out in the sun... in the desert to rot.  Then beaten again...

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Raph at least gave us a way to (kind of) make up our own content with the sandbox concept.  If the idiots at SoE would have concentrated on finishing the content and the portions of the game that were missing from launch, instead of trying to jump in and balance a partially finished game, the sanbox would have held everyone long enough to make up for the lack anything to do.

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QFT

I couldnt have said it better myself.

oops double post.

See, Im not a member of the SWG community.

Thats how SOE wants it......

Im a member of the ....

VOCAL MINORITY

SOE Knows the Vocal Minority is not stupid

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Originally posted by kaibigan34
Helios on Points

Basically Helios says that the more points there are in the expertise system, the less diversity there will be. And the less the points the more the diversity.

These devs think people are so dumb. Its the other way around. If you limit the amount of points, people will stick to specific builds alot more then if there are alot of points to play around with.

They had originally promised people would be able to get about one and a half trees now you will be lucky if you can get one tree.

Soon we will see SWG Fansites with specific template builds just like before. Something Smedley said was one of the reasons they dumped the old skill system and gave us the NGE.

Kai

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Think of it like war - both sides think they are superior & both have the same goal (freedom from the opposition)
Anyone ever seen propaganda tactics (us vets do it all the time) - So SOE calls me stupid i can live with that "Only the truth hurts"

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Originally posted by kaibigan34
Helios on Points

Basically Helios says that the more points there are in the expertise system, the less diversity there will be. And the less the points the more the diversity.

These devs think people are so dumb. Its the other way around. If you limit the amount of points, people will stick to specific builds alot more then if there are alot of points to play around with.

They had originally promised people would be able to get about one and a half trees now you will be lucky if you can get one tree.

Soon we will see SWG Fansites with specific template builds just like before. Something Smedley said was one of the reasons they dumped the old skill system and gave us the NGE.

Kai

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Allow me to put this as eloquently as possible:

Helios is a f'ing toolshed.

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Originally posted by almagill

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Originally posted by kaibigan34
Helios on Points

Basically Helios says that the more points there are in the expertise system, the less diversity there will be. And the less the points the more the diversity.

These devs think people are so dumb. Its the other way around. If you limit the amount of points, people will stick to specific builds alot more then if there are alot of points to play around with.

They had originally promised people would be able to get about one and a half trees now you will be lucky if you can get one tree.

Soon we will see SWG Fansites with specific template builds just like before. Something Smedley said was one of the reasons they dumped the old skill system and gave us the NGE.

Kai

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It's not that they think the player base is dumb, it's that a dev, having been on a live team for several years starts to view the 'player' as a ravenous mongoloid zombie hydra with attention deficit disorder and serious split personality problems.

Just because somebody is a decent programmer doesn't mean that they are going to have people skills that are much better than their playerbase.  As a result, most Devs should be forbidden from ever, ever speaking directly to players as no matter what they say they are going to piss people off.

Of course, community relations should speak to the players, they are after all the 'public facing' part of the dev cycle. But as we know, they just piss people off too. The hardline forum cop does their job and is slammed as being a nazi, the PR guy chats with player groups and is accused of elitism and building cliques. 

But by far the worst, and best, example is the CS guy who has been plucked from the ranks and elevated to the dizzy heights of 'voice of the gods'.  OOOHAAAH! He gets to go to work every day and Live The Dream. Working on MMO's and hanging with the cool kids and just *every freaking day* he gets to sit in on planning meetings and go 'do lunch'.  And he's just got to tell somebody, cos this is the coolest thing since getting to grips with Mary Jane behind the bleachers... except *the players* take every last wittering of the Willing Fool as Holy Writ and, when some bluesky thinking bit of 'well maybe what if' gets kicked around the internet as a bit of' cast iron sure fire this is gonna happen'.

Long time ago  wanted to get into game design. But seriously, having seen the green crayon scrawlings of some of 'teh f4nz' I'd be going to work in a stab vest and living under an assumed name.  You plebs don't deserve me, and Lord knows, i don't deserve the sort of flak and grief that'd come with a job like that.


Did (insert random dev name here)  lie? I dunno, I don't think he even though t it through as far as that.
Did the player base grab at one idea and build it into a whole empire... gosh, as if.
Are there players hanging on in the hope of a miracle and that the King Under The Hill will rise and lead them to vicotry/salvation/Chucky Cheese?
Are there devs that think their game would just be freaking awesome if it wasn't for the asshole customers and their "I pay for your home, boy, so git back in that cubicle and code me some dragonz..."




(Much of the above was stolen from a dev blog and referred to MMO devs in general. I'ts not just the SOE devs that can come off as the offcasts from The Muppet Show or just the SWG player base that are forthy mouthed zealots. *everymucker is like that*)

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Originally posted by almagill

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Of course, community relations should speak to the players, they are after all the 'public facing' part of the dev cycle. But as we know, they just piss people off too. The hardline forum cop does their job and is slammed as being a nazi, the PR guy chats with player groups and is accused of elitism and building cliques. 

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it appears they lied about that profession and SOE has a proven track record of deception and lying.

Defiant

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Originally posted by Malickiebloo

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Originally posted by Wildcat84

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Originally posted by Malickiebloo
You still lied to us.

The abilities we have now, such as force run, saber block, lightning, heal, etc ARE ESSENTIAL in a game system that makes us the ONLY melee profession amongst ranged!

Those abilities AS THEY ARE NOW should remain, and expertise should exist to let you improve or diversify in them.

You totally failed to do that.

The subscriber numbers will prove that out.  Every time you revamp you lose subscribers.

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Its posts like this I do not understand , They up until now have not released what the expertise system will be . How can someone say they were lied to ?

Also noone listens to a word the devs say , When they release any Info . They make sure to point out they are ideas nothing more . They make no promises anymore , So that way they can not be accused of lying .

Helios also says in that thread , Jedi are not recieving any new abilities because they already had their revamp . Yet everyone ignores such statements and continues to whine.

As for the way they are implementing Jedi  expertise , It makes sense . It is also true adding many more abilities to jedi would in a sense make an alfa class. They can Cloak, Snare , Cure snare , Use ranged weapons , Use melee weapons both with success , Lose agro , Saber block , Area attack in other words they have a lot more ability than most classes .

Next week they will be releasing the BH expertise , I am willing to bet you will see more abilities added . Than you saw with jedi .

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It was a point blank question leveled at Rogue_5 at the summit (by me), and at the recent HOC chat at Helios.

Both times it was promised that expertise would be new stuff or enhancements to existing stuff, not existing abilities moved into expertise.

That question was asked VERY specifically.

Yes, they lied to us.

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How do you know other professions will not have exactly that implemented ? Now if they do not , you can say they lied . But you of all people should know, Jedi was the first profession to recieve an Overhaul Post NGE . Helios offered a reasonable explanation of why you are not seeing new abilities on the Jedi front .

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And thank goodness they never said Jedi would be diverse again?   Oh wait...  Well at least they said PvP bases and the population would return..  Crap Oh wait...   Well at least they said that they would fix things and make sure they were ready before they launch... Oh wait...  Well at least they said they would start installing the expertise system -- they just forgot to tell you what it meant lol.

I just sat here and thought about all the things I was told in this game from the Dev team... guess what?  About 15% of it came to light.    The rest was pretty much bullshit.   From the Fan Fest bullshit to even the summits and what was coming.

I guess in the end it is the consumer that chooses what to trust it.... If someone wants to encourage them, then you pay them... they are almost paid to misslead at this point.   I mean how many of you thought the game could not be ruined with the NGE and how many of you did not think it was real?   They had been working on it for months ...... yet just did not mention it.

What is different about this now?   Do you think they tell you what is going on?  Right now I would say that most of them are just glad to get a paycheck for the laughing stock MMO...  At this point the Dev team is just riding this out... The same team that swore smugglers would smuggle about 25 pubs ago and the FRS was on it's way is just buying time.

Thank goodness they are all honest decent people that are doing well at thier job, do it well and make good on promises and projects...  Oh wait...lol I think it is safe to say most people know better.