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Originally posted by Feldron

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This is a perfect example of a classical falisy. Attacking or insulting the person rather then addressing the issue. If you look through the reply's on the list here you will see no acutal resposne that would support any thing other then that the game is flawed and a bad game.

You would do better by going through and finding thing that actualy support your view. But then again you will not find any because the game is truely flawed and bad. There has also been bug and reports on them that have never been address and it is my belief that you will find the game company ingoring them as they are looking for the small profit the game can turn out and not actually try to make a great game.

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Originally posted by DarkDragon24
Well, well. Iam just some newbie with no big ideas and stuff, but I have been a Fung Wan Player for some time in the past. Just for those who don't know, Fung Wan is the Storm Riders MMORPG, based on characters by Wing Ching Ma. I haven't played Hero yet, but it seems to be based on another character by Wing Ching Ma and it looks very much like Fung Wan. If it's based on Fung Wan, than yes, there will be a lot of beating up animals and other fighters, and yes, it's not the most innovative game in the world, BUT I love the world, the characters and the atmosphere in the game. I will check out the beta on friday and after a few days we will c. 

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Originally posted by Feldron

Sadly your in for a disapointment its nothing of the sort

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my god man let ppl test a game dont go flaming around like "ppl read my post i know everything about the game" its ok for sure to give your opinion (the bad things in your opinion) but just dont step it flat under your feet

Basically due to the large number of flaws in the game & gameplay any game you pick to compare it too will be better in more catagories.

But again back to the main topic. While I have brought up points and examples of how the game is bad. All responses have been unable to bring up positive qualities of the game.

So for what ever reason you are tring to defend the game, you have been unable to bring forward any vailid points to suport your view.

So while I can understand why some people would want to defend a game, because I can bring up points on how the games is bad and will all the posts with no points of how the game is good in any way, it only supports the view that the game is The Worse Game Ever.

If you want to try to support your view of the game you should go through the proper steps to do so. Sp list the pro's & con's of the game then go through the list and make an argument againist the game and then a argument for the game and then try to point out how your view is the right. But when you do this don't be surprised if you do this and find the side againist the game is stronger. The game is not good at all.

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Originally posted by Feldron
The point is if you don't go through want is wrong with the game it can't be fixed. However if you go through the list of things that need improvement or need to be reworked. You will find all that is left is the graphics and graphics alone does not make a game. So the problems are so extentsive that the game would have to be completely reworked. So much so that it is unlikely that the dev will be able to do so.

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many f2p games are cropping up globably to compete with p2p, and I say we need more of them! Being forced to pay for a game more than once is insulting, and that's what monthly fees are all about. I've gladly shelled out cash in games that have a cash item store instead of monthly fees. It allows you to show your appreciation of the game on your terms.

Worst game Ever? I hardly think so. I've played much worse, and while this game is not original by far, it has some points over similar games.

1) Pet system: Nice variety, although could be larger... then again, it's still in BETA. Being able to buy a horse from NPC, or a captured pet adds a little flavor to the game. Class specific mounts are nice, although seeing an overseer/hunter on a reindeer reminds me of Santa Claus. Best of all, they don't vanish after a certain period of time, they die, or unmount it.

2) Parties: Ok, no big deal here, but I like the fact that item drops are shared. Plenty of gamers out there may complain about it, but a shared item system is better than racing to an item to see who gets it first. You can always trade items with each other later. It's call TEAMWORK and COOPERATION.

3) PvP/War zones: Don't have to worry about some high level noob waiting outside of town for any lowbies to come out and be slaughtered. You want to fight? Go to a warzone and get pwned like the noob you are. 'Nuff said.

4) Storyline: Nothing out of the ordinary, but it's not blah either. It has many elements from asian mythology, and it's written by established martial art novelists. Don't just download the client and get into the grind, read the story behind the game. Anybody can point and click. Few will take the time to learn what it's all about.

5) Fun Factor: Is it fun for you? Is it fun for your friends? If it is, it can't be all that bad. If it's not, don't waste your time playing it, and go find something else to do with your time... like flame that game you hate so much in a forum, play basketball, watch TV... or *gasp!* get a job...

#5 in my humble opinion, is the most important. If a game isn't fun for me, there's no point in playing it. In fact, there's no point in talking or thinking about it. Just put it in the past and move on to the next. There's always a new game around the next click. ;)

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Originally posted by ultimusmagus

many f2p games are cropping up globably to compete with p2p, and I say we need more of them! Being forced to pay for a game more than once is insulting, and that's what monthly fees are all about. I've gladly shelled out cash in games that have a cash item store instead of monthly fees. It allows you to show your appreciation of the game on your terms.

Worst game Ever? I hardly think so. I've played much worse, and while this game is not original by far, it has some points over similar games.

1) Pet system: Nice variety, although could be larger... then again, it's still in BETA. Being able to buy a horse from NPC, or a captured pet adds a little flavor to the game. Class specific mounts are nice, although seeing an overseer/hunter on a reindeer reminds me of Santa Claus. Best of all, they don't vanish after a certain period of time, they die, or unmount it.

2) Parties: Ok, no big deal here, but I like the fact that item drops are shared. Plenty of gamers out there may complain about it, but a shared item system is better than racing to an item to see who gets it first. You can always trade items with each other later. It's call TEAMWORK and COOPERATION.

Parties would say are flawed, because the classes are broken a warrior can solo and get more exp per hour then just about any party,

Also if anyone in a party just kicks back and leaches all the other players are working to lvl up the other who isn't helping them. 

Until they define the roles of the other classes and how they work in a party the parties will be flawed   

3) PvP/War zones: Don't have to worry about some high level noob waiting outside of town for any lowbies to come out and be slaughtered. You want to fight? Go to a warzone and get pwned like the noob you are. 'Nuff said.

yeah pvp is in the game but then you go back to the character classes and you still end up with a pvp system that needs work.

4) Storyline: Nothing out of the ordinary, but it's not blah either. It has many elements from asian mythology, and it's written by established martial art novelists. Don't just download the client and get into the grind, read the story behind the game. Anybody can point and click. Few will take the time to learn what it's all about.

Yeah they got some but its such a small amount and you have periods of time where you got no quests or lore or anything to do but grind to gain exp until next quest and even then the quests are a bit disappointing 

5) Fun Factor: Is it fun for you? Is it fun for your friends? If it is, it can't be all that bad. If it's not, don't waste your time playing it, and go find something else to do with your time... like flame that game you hate so much in a forum, play basketball, watch TV... or *gasp!* get a job...

#5 in my humble opinion, is the most important. If a game isn't fun for me, there's no point in playing it. In fact, there's no point in talking or thinking about it. Just put it in the past and move on to the next. There's always a new game around the next click. ;)

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes and Warhammer

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Originally posted by Jodando

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Originally posted by Feldron

The only thing good about the game is graphic's and even then aren't breath taking or any thing just good

The game is pure grind.

Every game has grind. Otherwise, the games would require no effort. It's essential for providing some level of difficulty in the game.

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I am yellow.

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Originally posted by Feldron

My response is in blue

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Originally posted by Jodando

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Originally posted by Feldron

The only thing good about the game is graphic's and even then aren't breath taking or any thing just good

The game is pure grind.

Every game has grind. Otherwise, the games would require no effort. It's essential for providing some level of difficulty in the game.

Not true, good games have other things to do in game other then just grind thi game however has currently only basic slay monster quests and every few of them

The unfortunate thing most people seem to accept in the MMO market is that it is practically essential to have a grind.  This couldn't be farther away from the truth.  Time invested in a game shouldn't simply be the only method in which the player is rewarded.  Subsequently, this leads players to having the mentality that:

TIME SPENT = SKILL, which is essentially a lie in itself.  There is a difference between beating someone over the head with a +9999999999999 level 9999999999999 Warhammer and having a fair, equal sided duel.

Games don't necessarily have to have a grind, OR EVEN LEVELS, for the game itself to still be challenging and entertaining.

The characters have no depth every player is just like the next.

I thought that at first, too. But I noticed the GMs had different faces and features. From what I heard from them, there might be better customization later in the game.

Sadly no the gm's can have them but players can not

Right.  Why would it matter if GMs could look the same or different from other players?  MMO[RPG], Role playing game... Most players desire to have the ability to make their character stand out, or at the very least look unique. 

The classes are a joke they just give you like 1 starting skill and latter like 5 at most.

Keep playing. The level cap is 100, so don't assume so little about what's available.

The classes are worthless you can ask anyone you plays it the hunter only can tame monster and has no other reason to it and is crippled compared to a warrior the healer is a waste of space as the instant heal items do a better job and have no recast time the assain has to be highly specialized to compare to a warrior and a warrior's only point is to grind

Classes in of themselves are a horrible idea for any MMORPG.  You are locking the player into a skillset they are doomed to play for the entire life of that character.  This is a severe problem with most MMORPGs nowadays, and that is why I personally believe we need more online games utilizing skill based systems rather than pure level-based grinds.  TIME SPENT DOES-NOT EQUAL SKILL. 

The skills in the game are very lame and most are not worth having.

"Very lame" doesn't help much in criticism. Try describing it a bit better.

I got far enough the skills are ever few and the majority are worthless there is like 1-2 good one for each player class and weapon set with all other skills in the line being too worthless to actually have and even then only if you build your char solo to use them

"The skills in the game are not interesting, nor are they varied or entertaining to use.  They provide nothing towards the overall depth of gameplay and add very little for a rewarding experience." How about that?

The game plays the same from one class to the next and its pure grind.

It sounds to me you haven't gone very far in either of the classes. If you hate grinding so much, maybe MMORPGs really aren't for you.

I play each class and far enough they all play 1 of too ways straight forward grind basic attack or grind with special attacks they don't have roles to play like the classes in other games

MMORPGs don't necessarily have to constitute grind-based gameplay. HOWEVER, most companys nowadays revolve around this mindset like it depended on their lives.  The fact of the matter is, more and more MMORPGs are being released with the same exact gameplay mechanics WITH EXTREMELY SLIGHT TWEAKS made to the overall gameplay.

The quests a lame and poorly done and every few in number.

"Lame" again. How are they lame? How are they poorly done?

The quests in game a basic slay monster with no depth and have lvl limits the storyline quest is sectional and with limits on the sections and also are just slay monster or talk to this person who tell you to slay monsters

Yes, at least make the quests somewhat interesting or provide some sort of purpose to the story, rather than just rewarding the player with some random skill, item or experience.  MMORPGs need more complex and over arching storylines.  Most people skip dialogue and stories altogether in MMORPGs unless they are serious RPers.  Why? Because most of the time, the stories are boring and not worth delving into.

Inflation is a problem already and the game has only been played for a short time.

If you mean population inflation, doesn't that suggest players like the game? *Shrug*

No money inflation you have player charge 1-2 Million for lvl 23 items

And let's not forget the wonderful addition of botters, farmers and ebayers.

The item system is poorly designed. you are this lvl this is the gear you have.

Once again, it seems you haven't played very far. Your options may be limited at low levels, but that's to provide an incentive to actually get to higher levels.

No played more then far enough and anyone who played the game can tell you the item system goes your this lvl so that mean you where this gear and you see if you can get +'s for it but you have little to no choice in gear, There is no rare or unquie or named items

Players should not have to WORK in any portion of the game to reach a point where they are ENTERTAINED.  Even if a game had the most amazing gameplay, realistic graphics and jaw dropping storyline, if it isn't immediately accessible, entertaining and fun right from the start, then why should the overall playerbase even bother?  I personally play games to have fun, not to do jobs, errands or feel like I'm working.

Basically they would have to redo the entire game to fix the problems with it.

The only thing good about the game is graphic's and even then aren't breath taking or any thing just good

The game is pure grind.

Every game has grind. Otherwise, the games would require no effort. It's essential for providing some level of difficulty in the game.

Not true, good games have other things to do in game other then just grind thi game however has currently only basic slay monster quests and every few of them

Correct, there are many games in existence that don't utilize grind-based gameplay to achieve a rewarding and entertaining gameplay experience. Grinding IS NOT A NECESSITY for ANY MMORPG.  Again, TIME SPENT -DOES NOT- EQUAL SKILL.

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Originally posted by naldric
This game really cant be the worst game ever since DnL already got that throne, and it is selling for full price...

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I agree! This game really does suc. I played for only a few minutes and i uninstalled everything. The graphics are bad. The camera angle sux for me. You cant evn sit to recover HP+MP. I rate it as 1/100.

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Originally posted by archroid

I agree! This game really does suc. I played for only a few minutes and i uninstalled everything. The graphics are bad. The camera angle sux for me. You cant evn sit to recover HP+MP. I rate it as 1/100.

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Originally posted by Jodando
You guys keep stating the flaws of this game, but I STILL have yet to see a suggestion for a game that DOES incorporate all the features you desire. Examples, please! So we DO have something to compare to. If Hero isn't doing things right, tell us who is!

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It is impossible to accomdate the needs and desires of every single individual in the gaming market for an MMO.  Any company that attempts to achieve such a feat will result in a game that is never finished or complete.

But, from a personal standpoint, games that have done things correctly OR have at least attempted to break the mold in some fashion include:

Ultima Online(PRE-EA/TRAMMEL) - Completely skill based system.  Geographical housing.  Open PVP heavily dependant on the player's skill with the keyboard, mouse, understanding of macros as well as their character's skillset.  You are not locked into a class, however you can only master 7 skills on one character.

Eve Online - Zero effort required for character development. No levels. Everything is skill based. It is technically possible to learn every skill in the game. You are not locked into a class.  You play the game to socialize, earn money, participate in battles and to generally have fun- NOT to work on character development by doing mindless tasks over and over and over again.  Why do people sometimes resort to using bots, even if they have plenty of time to play a game?

Saga of Ryzom - Skill based system divided into four arts.  Extremely unique and innovative method of handling skills and actions- Players create their own attacks and spells, similarily to the Elder Scroll series. No levels. You are not locked into a class. 

Guild Wars- You don't even have to grind.  You can create a max level character right from the start meant specifically for PVP and still be surprisingly effective in battle.  While there are levels in the game, the gameplay revolves around equipping and strategizing the right build for your character, as well as the ability to use the correct skills at any point in time and to react accordingly.  The ridiculously large amount of skills in this game can result in an almost infinite combination of skillsets resulting in a unique character build that only the player themselves can effectively use if they know what they are doing.

While these 4 games present some form of grinding to an extent, whether it be for cash or character development, NONE OF THEM are as heavily dependant on the notion of killing for hours and hours mindlessly as seen in most asian-based MMOs.  In these 4 games, you are not 99.9% of the time attacking, sitting down, standing up, attacking, sitting down, standing up, etc etc etc.  These games provide you with an amazing amount of depth, choice and freedom for your character.  If you are bored with a particular task, you can do something else and enjoy that just as well.  If you don't like how your character's skillset or build is working, then change it and try something else.

Ragnarok Online, Silkroad Online, Hero Online, RF Online, Mu Online, SEAL online, FlyForFun, ROSE Online, Conquer Online and Lineage all essentially share the same gameplay formula, and that is the undeniable truth.  Endless grinding for extremely limited character development and freedom.  You play to kill and only to kill, and to attain a few measly points used to strengthen your character by a marginal amount.  And by end game, how many skills have you unlocked for your character?  And by that point do you even remotely ENJOY playing that character class? 

Create a character, step outside of town, kill something, repeat for a week, upgrade equipment, move to town 2, kill something, repeat for a month, upgrade equipment, move to town 3, kill something, repeat for a year, upgrade your equipment, sell your account on ebay.  That personally doesn't sound as fun, nor as gratifying as other MMOs with actual depth that are worth playing.

And worst of all, these types of games teach the worst type of mentality- That actual player skill is based on time spent in a game rather than actual pure skill and understanding of the game's rulesets and knowledge of the gameplay itself. 

 I know you've seen this happen at least once to another player, if not to yourself. "LOL noob i totally pwnzed you cuz i pwn go learn2play"- level 99 warrior with +999999999 PVP mace.

Levels and gear-centric gameplay don't have to necessarily be the end all be all experience for MMO gaming.

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Originally posted by keiichi2k3

Ragnarok Online, Silkroad Online, Hero Online, RF Online, Mu Online, SEAL online, FlyForFun, ROSE Online, Conquer Online and Lineage all essentially share the same gameplay formula, and that is the undeniable truth.  Endless grinding for extremely limited character development and freedom.  You play to kill and only to kill, and to attain a few measly points used to strengthen your character by a marginal amount.  And by end game, how many skills have you unlocked for your character?  And by that point do you even remotely ENJOY playing that character class? 

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Worst game?? Think I can imagine some really rubbish from the history of games.

I lokked at it, read about it and saw the movie and screenshots.

GW got a better graphic, but GW is boring. It is more a movie than a game... Very stunning graphic almost made me cry when you see how the light plays through the window in pre-Ascelon.

WoW, Great graphic, good gameplay. But the char-creation is too limited (not as limited as GW). lots of items, but it becomes a bit dull. But WoW is the best MMO as far as I see.. No RP of course... not even close... (Don't tell me there is RP-serves... the only good thing about those servers are the name restriction... but then again pick a foreign language and you can call youself (Fuckyourmother))

CoH/CoV... To games who might seems like one, but they are different. But here is the problem that it is not as stunning as GW and WoW, and first when you reach beyond lvl 15 It begins to catch. No probs with the Char-creation they got the best char-creation. A huge city and some fair missions.

Hero Online: Still waiting to get in, But hey it is an Oriental game, I have waited for such game for long now... There is of course a few thing that they miss, but I think they'll get it done before release. It is of course only beta. I remember how WoW was in the beta-proccess, not as pretty as now.