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Originally posted by Shayde
Guess that means there'll be no other threads on this board ever again.

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Originally posted by Tymora

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Originally posted by BadBoyOnFire
No offence Stradden but i don't think most people are inteionally "highjacking" other peoples threads regarding a single "We hate SoE" issue.

Its the fact the whole game - and every last aspect of it - has changed completely, which prompts discussion on almost all threads.

But, heres my two cents.

"1 H4T3 $0E!!!!!1111111111 LAWL!!!".

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I agree.  If the "hate" that is going around is due to the NGE, then this is an issue that spreads across many mmorpgs topics in general, because with what they've done, SOE has set a precedent.  Whenever there is discussion about another mmorpg and changes to it, this SOE/SWG issues comes to the forefront.  Hopefully, enough of this disapproval can be spread around to negate the precendent set by SOE/SWG, and so developers/publishers will looks down on this low tactic of changing their game, alienating veteran players in order to reach a new demographic and earn a few extra dollars.

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Originally posted by Stradden

Hi Guys,

It seems as though there has been quite a bit of SOE hate recently, and it has gotten to the point where it is taking over the forums for SOE games. As a result, I am creating this sticky where people can vent their frustrations on this subject.

Please do not continue to hijack other threads with this issue. Also, remember to have a look at our Rules of Conduct regarding what is ok to say and what is not.

Cheers,

Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager

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Originally posted by Malickiebloo

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Originally posted by Tymora

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Originally posted by BadBoyOnFire
No offence Stradden but i don't think most people are inteionally "highjacking" other peoples threads regarding a single "We hate SoE" issue.

Its the fact the whole game - and every last aspect of it - has changed completely, which prompts discussion on almost all threads.

But, heres my two cents.

"1 H4T3 $0E!!!!!1111111111 LAWL!!!".

---

I agree.  If the "hate" that is going around is due to the NGE, then this is an issue that spreads across many mmorpgs topics in general, because with what they've done, SOE has set a precedent.  Whenever there is discussion about another mmorpg and changes to it, this SOE/SWG issues comes to the forefront.  Hopefully, enough of this disapproval can be spread around to negate the precendent set by SOE/SWG, and so developers/publishers will looks down on this low tactic of changing their game, alienating veteran players in order to reach a new demographic and earn a few extra dollars.

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 . ALmost every game on the market sees facelifts everyday, In order to keep things fresh for their players . IF they are having major declines in subscriptions (losing more than they gain ) It is suiting they try and improve it and reach more peoples expectations .

What soe did was try and improve their game , Did they succeed ? That is dependant on opinion .  But that dose not mean other companys in the furture should not try and improve their products . Soe will still keep changing their game until it reaches what players want (not just vets but , players interested in a Star wars MMO in general  ) Or it will never see a finsihed state due to time constraints and funding .

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What SOE did with SWG was far from a "facelift".  It was a completely different game after the NGE, with nothing left that appeals to many of the veteran players.  Those that stayed and really tried to give it a chance may have gotten used to the new game, but the changes were made with one clear goal - It was to get the World of Warcraft type of player to come over, not to make the game more "star warsy". 

I see changes to every single mmorpg out there, some big and some minor, but none can be compared to the total alteration of SWG

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Originally posted by Tymora

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Originally posted by Malickiebloo

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Originally posted by Tymora

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Originally posted by BadBoyOnFire
No offence Stradden but i don't think most people are inteionally "highjacking" other peoples threads regarding a single "We hate SoE" issue.

Its the fact the whole game - and every last aspect of it - has changed completely, which prompts discussion on almost all threads.

But, heres my two cents.

"1 H4T3 $0E!!!!!1111111111 LAWL!!!".

---

I agree.  If the "hate" that is going around is due to the NGE, then this is an issue that spreads across many mmorpgs topics in general, because with what they've done, SOE has set a precedent.  Whenever there is discussion about another mmorpg and changes to it, this SOE/SWG issues comes to the forefront.  Hopefully, enough of this disapproval can be spread around to negate the precendent set by SOE/SWG, and so developers/publishers will looks down on this low tactic of changing their game, alienating veteran players in order to reach a new demographic and earn a few extra dollars.

---

 . ALmost every game on the market sees facelifts everyday, In order to keep things fresh for their players . IF they are having major declines in subscriptions (losing more than they gain ) It is suiting they try and improve it and reach more peoples expectations .

What soe did was try and improve their game , Did they succeed ? That is dependant on opinion .  But that dose not mean other companys in the furture should not try and improve their products . Soe will still keep changing their game until it reaches what players want (not just vets but , players interested in a Star wars MMO in general  ) Or it will never see a finsihed state due to time constraints and funding .

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What SOE did with SWG was far from a "facelift".  It was a completely different game after the NGE, with nothing left that appeals to many of the veteran players.  Those that stayed and really tried to give it a chance may have gotten used to the new game, but the changes were made with one clear goal - It was to get the World of Warcraft type of player to come over, not to make the game more "star warsy". 

I see changes to every single mmorpg out there, some big and some minor, but none can be compared to the total alteration of SWG

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Originally posted by Tymora
What SOE did with SWG was far from a "facelift".  It was a completely different game after the NGE, with nothing left that appeals to many of the veteran players.  Those that stayed and really tried to give it a chance may have gotten used to the new game, but the changes were made with one clear goal - It was to get the World of Warcraft type of player to come over, not to make the game more "star warsy". 
I see changes to every single mmorpg out there, some big and some minor, but none can be compared to the total alteration of SWG

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Agreed but the constant flaming of SOE in just about every SWG thread that opens here isn't necassary. The internet is a public place, anyone can say what they wanna say on their own dime, their own server. Sitting continually day after day tearing down anything anyone wants to discuss about their gameplay currently isn't necassary and that is my point and the reason why I think Stradden is right. It doesn't look good for MMORPG.COM and it certainly doesn't bring in positive additions to the community.

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Originally posted by Stradden

Hi Guys,

It seems as though there has been quite a bit of SOE hate recently, and it has gotten to the point where it is taking over the forums for SOE games. As a result, I am creating this sticky where people can vent their frustrations on this subject.

Please do not continue to hijack other threads with this issue. Also, remember to have a look at our Rules of Conduct regarding what is ok to say and what is not.

Cheers,

Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager

---

I may be wrong, and I appologize to Stradden ahead of time if I am, but the way I see it:

I think THIS thread, in combination with the RECENT influx of blatantly obvious $OE Developers trying to BS everyone about how GREAT this POS SWG is and how wonderful the $OE developers are at what they do, is HIGHLY suspect. They have obviously complained to management here at MMORPG.COM.

It would seem to me that the OVERWHELMING community here is anti $OE ans anti $LA. Because of this it should have been the proNGErs and pro$OE people that got the stickie. The fact that this has occured tells me that $OE has gotten to the management at MMORPG.COM. Things MUST be REALLY REALLY desperate over there at $OE.

If I am wrong that $OE isn't putting pressure on MMORPG.COM management, then $OE has managed to hurt our community here in these forums by their complaining about US .... the OVERWHELMING community.

To be honest, when I see these posts where people are asking about the game I usually do not reply - as to me it is a non issue if they play. But what I DO see is alot of people here telling those people that are inquiring about SWG to try it themselves and make their own decision.

I hope this isn't about keeping the anti $OE people quite by restricting what they say and where they can say it. Because if that were true word would eventually get out and it would have a negative impact on all the other forums as well as this site as a whole. This site is MUCH too valuable to me and others as a place to get other information on other games. If something like that would occur it would have a sever impact on where I can get credible information.

I would hope that the "hijacking" of posts will go both ways.

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Originally posted by Lepidus

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Originally posted by Clackamas

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 If you have a thoughtful discussion that does not involve death threats, then feel free to make new threads.

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Originally posted by Sago

I may be wrong, and I appologize to Stradden ahead of time if I am, but the way I see it:

I think THIS thread, in combination with the RECENT influx of blatantly obvious $OE Developers trying to BS everyone about how GREAT this POS SWG is and how wonderful the $OE developers are at what they do, is HIGHLY suspect. They have obviously complained to management here at MMORPG.COM.

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Originally posted by Lepidus

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Originally posted by Clackamas

This is all fine.. but lets get back to the purpose of this thread... why do we need a special thread?  And why isn't the news of SOE mistreatment of customers and games not getting a news article out of MMORPG?

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The problem is that this story is old. We covered the NGE when it came out, we reviewed it and I wrote a quite clear editorial on what I thought of the issue. The problem is that these boards are unusable by anyone who may still want to play the game because anyone who says anything about the game other than "I hate SOE" is chased out the front door before their second post.

Ah, but what MMORPG game has caused such a long stand fury among its current and former customers?  This is clearly been a long term thing, and it is to that point, that makes it news worthy.

A lot of what you guys complain about is fair comment, but really, its been a few months and frankly you've voted with your dollars by canceling your accounts. This thread is here and should easily be a warning for anyone who

And, to the point that constructive posts are made, and veterans point out that SOE has done this in the past is still fair to point out.  SOE is a case study in history repeating itself.

comes by these boards to see what is up if they did not know. All we want is for all users to be able to discuss things in peace, you guys long ago stopped allowing that, not only on this board but every other SOE boards.

So, again, what is the root cause of this "not allowing for peace"?  Certainly,
the fan base didn't make the changes that accelerated the demise of the game.  I fail to see why an analysis of this wouldn't make a good story.  Certainly, if I was in business school, it makes a great business test case.

On many of them, it's not even fair comment. Thus, to be fair across them all,

How do we determine what is fair or not fair to comment on?  Or prehaps, more precisely, who is determining what is fair and what measuring stick are they using?  Where is that stick published (and lets face it, the TOS is only a reference for behavior, not a measure of fairness)....

we started a thread of this nature. If there are any new developments that cause you to hate SOE more, feel free to discuss them outside this thread. All we ask is that if you want to rant about how much you hate SOE, do it here. If you have a thoughtful discussion that does not involve death threats, then feel free to make new threads. Just end the hijacking of every thread and

I really hope your are not condoning any death threats on this thread or any other.  On that point, I personally would have edited John Smedley's comments about visting Texas as being inappropriate and not helpful.  That kind of behavior is never warrented and completely inappropriate.

I would also aggree that the name calling has gotten a little overboard.  But poeple who defend a practice with with faulty logic or make comments without being able to support then do deserve the criticism they get -- so long as the criticism is civil regardless if it is "negative" or "postive".

respect the original poster's desire to talk about whatever they wanted to talk about.

I hope that hijacking a threat doesn't mean that commenting *constructive* that SOE has done this before that the outcome was poor kind of posts is not what you are targeting.  And example of what I am talking about is stating that the population of SWG is growing without providing real data.  To date, for example, John Smedley has stated that it isn't.  The merging with the SOE station pass is cearly a sign that one can resaonable infer means the game isn't growing.  And the fact they have reduced and consolidate staffing levels for SOE is certainly a sign that SOE isn't investing much into the game anymore.  I hope when such things are pointed (again as an example) to opptomistic threads, that that won't be considered an attempt to hijack a thread.

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Overall, I appreciate that MMORPG seems to be trying to  constructive to the population that vists the Star Wars Galaxy forum, and SOE forums in general.  However, I am not clear this thread will have the desired effect other than the one point you made "It will be a warning to people as to what is going on".  I think both pro and anti SWGers will continue until the servers are shutdown.  The anti-SWGers, in particular, unless they feel vindicated, are unlikely to back down.  As to my original point, though, I still think there is a new story here because fustration still continues and continues in multiple boards over what SOE did to its player base which goes beyond voting with the dollars....

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Originally posted by ixontes

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Originally posted by Clackamas

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Originally posted by ixontes
Has anyone investigated if the Better Business Bureau would get involved?

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With SOE or MMORPG?

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SOE

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Kinda... You can file a complaint with the BBB out of California since that is where Sony's Corp office is located. They have a file, but they will not file lawsuits on individuals behalfs (so the letter I got stated).

Xcathdra

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Originally posted by Lepidus

Originally posted by SagoI may be wrong, and I appologize to Stradden ahead of time if I am, but the way I see it:
I think THIS thread, in combination with the RECENT influx of blatantly obvious $OE Developers trying to BS everyone about how GREAT this POS SWG is and how wonderful the $OE developers are at what they do, is HIGHLY suspect. They have obviously complained to management here at MMORPG.COM.
No one from SOE or LA has complained about anything.

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They won't beleive you Lep. Conspiracy theory for the win!

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Originally posted by Lepidus

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Originally posted by Sago

I may be wrong, and I appologize to Stradden ahead of time if I am, but the way I see it:

I think THIS thread, in combination with the RECENT influx of blatantly obvious $OE Developers trying to BS everyone about how GREAT this POS SWG is and how wonderful the $OE developers are at what they do, is HIGHLY suspect. They have obviously complained to management here at MMORPG.COM.

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No one from SOE or LA has complained about anything.

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Originally posted by Malickiebloo  . ALmost every game on the market sees facelifts everyday, In order to keep things fresh for their players . IF they are having major declines in subscriptions (losing more than they gain ) It is suiting they try and improve it and reach more peoples expectations .

What soe did was try and improve their game , Did they succeed ? That is dependant on opinion .  But that dose not mean other companys in the furture should not try and improve their products . Soe will still keep changing their game until it reaches what players want (not just vets but , players interested in a Star wars MMO in general  ) Or it will never see a finsihed state due to time constraints and funding .

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Originally posted by Shayde

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Originally posted by Malickiebloo  . ALmost every game on the market sees facelifts everyday, In order to keep things fresh for their players . IF they are having major declines in subscriptions (losing more than they gain ) It is suiting they try and improve it and reach more peoples expectations .

What soe did was try and improve their game , Did they succeed ? That is dependant on opinion .  But that dose not mean other companys in the furture should not try and improve their products . Soe will still keep changing their game until it reaches what players want (not just vets but , players interested in a Star wars MMO in general  ) Or it will never see a finsihed state due to time constraints and funding .

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Facelift?

That's like saying the six million dollar man had a hangnail taken care of.

They improved the game with JTL, they improved the game with ROTW and even to a point ToOW. If you kept the two game "facelifts" separate, they did a lot to improve the game.

Only problem is that not once, but TWICE they screwed up the core game. They added content, but WORSENED the functionality.

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Originally posted by Minimum

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Originally posted by Lepidus

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Originally posted by Clackamas

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 If you have a thoughtful discussion that does not involve death threats, then feel free to make new threads.

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Ok, so if I only want to maim them a little, that's ok? (sorry, couldn't resist)

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I seem to recall John Smedley jokingly express concern about attending one of the Summits for fear of being shot... It is unfortunate that he made the joke.  While I dislike J.S. and wish to see him fired and banned from the MMORPG industry, I certainly don't wish him nor the staff any physical harm... a little humility maybe.

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Originally posted by Malickiebloo

(snipping the rest)

I don't agree to the WOW conspiracy . I have played both games extensively . They are as different as an apple and an orange . If anything they used wow as a buisness model to follow . But still changes are changes massive or small . It is all in an attempt to improve their product .

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Wow = levels, NGE = levels (granted from cu)

Wow= quest driven leveling, NGE = quet driven leveling

Wow= locked into a class, NGE = locked into a class (unless you pay)

Wow= talent subsets to make the people in the same class different (does not really work for alot of the classes), NGE = Professional subsets (3, same ammount as wow btw) to allow people is the smae class to be different

Wow= target lock, with facing and los, NGE= no target lock

WoW=crafting some of it is very useful, some of it is not, NGE = Crafting, if we believe Obriak then some of it is very useful and other ascpests are not.

frankly Mali there are a lot if basic similarites wether you like it our not. I have to disagree with saying that they are apples and oranges. About the ONLY thing NGE was over WoW currently is a kick in the back side space simulator.

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Originally posted by Wildcat84
So we aren't allowed to:

/kneel;
/meditate;
/powerboost;
/pause 20;
/center;
/tar %personwhodesignednge%;
/warcry2;
/dizzy;
/knockdown;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/pause 20;
/tar %personwhodesignednge%;
/warcry2;
/dizzy;
/knockdown;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/pause 20;
/tar %personwhodesignednge%;
/warcry2;
/dizzy;
/knockdown;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;
/unarmedhit3;

(triple for the win)

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Originally posted by Seloth

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Originally posted by Malickiebloo

(snipping the rest)

I don't agree to the WOW conspiracy . I have played both games extensively . They are as different as an apple and an orange . If anything they used wow as a buisness model to follow . But still changes are changes massive or small . It is all in an attempt to improve their product .

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Wow = levels, NGE = levels (granted from cu)

Wow= quest driven leveling, NGE = quet driven leveling

Wow= locked into a class, NGE = locked into a class (unless you pay)

Wow= talent subsets to make the people in the same class different (does not really work for alot of the classes), NGE = Professional subsets (3, same ammount as wow btw) to allow people is the smae class to be different

Wow= target lock, with facing and los, NGE= no target lock

WoW=crafting some of it is very useful, some of it is not, NGE = Crafting, if we believe Obriak then some of it is very useful and other ascpests are not.

frankly Mali there are a lot if basic similarites wether you like it our not. I have to disagree with saying that they are apples and oranges. About the ONLY thing NGE was over WoW currently is a kick in the back side space simulator.

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