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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Star Wars Galaxies

Star Wars Galaxies 

SWG Veteran Refuge  » The Official "We're Angry at SOE" thread

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689 posts found
  kefkah

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 851

5/24/06 12:33:03 PM#21

This thread actually has me concerned. No conspiracy theories of course but still the idea behind it is destined for failure. Here is why:

1. People often post their feelings in new threads as say after page 5 - only the ones engaged in argument seem to keep reading. So say this thread reaches 187 pages? Who is going to want to read it let alone post to it?

2. I think you are shooting yourself in the foot. You don't want to risk full time moderation of this forum for fear of outcries and the fact that it would actually require more than one person to do it. Checking the stats, the SWG forum is one of the most busy forums post and traffic wise. Sure there is a lot of negativity but we simply cannot post our thoughts on the official forums now can we? And this has become the unofficial news and rumor source for the game on the web. So what to be done? I guess this thread and once it is clear that fails?

3. I don't see this kinda thing on the Dark and Light forum or others so targetting this one is cause and effect. I am interested in the cause and what the cause was meaning to effect. You adopt this solution as a blanket - then perhaps it might be taken seriously. Pinpoint one audience and it most likely will be viewed as targetted suppression.

I am a big fan of your site. And would like to continue to be so please have some more dialogue with us on the matter.

Kefkah

  britoca

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/04
Posts: 1486

Time U enjoyed wasting was not wasted

5/24/06 12:37:49 PM#22
about time we got a sticky!  Thank you very much.

I'll paste some of my important posts here.

"A Warning to Potential New SWG Players - 5/23/06

You will be paying for a beta-phase game.

Why?

The game just recently got drastically changed with the NGE. Many things aren't yet functioning as they should.  Expect lots of bugs.

Even as we speak, there are constant new concepts, strategies, and ideas being tested in the test servers. What does this mean?  THE GAME IS NOT FINISHED (again).  Expect your game to change independently of your progress.  Frequently as well.

SOE has a tradition to change things drastically without deeply contemplating the consequences on the game.
They have been doing so with SWG for 3 years now.

I suggest the profession revamps in particular if you seek proof, the chef revamp is a great example, among many others.

Again, for emphasis, you will be paying for a beta phase game.

You can take the "it's a SW mmo" excuse if that for itself is justification enough to pay these people.

You were warned.  The money is still yours.

Cheers."

In response to Pirrg's post, "SWG is improving, just give it some time" - 05/22/06:

"(...) the game got rushed and released before they had the time to consider and balance all the skills/professions.  That in itself does not mean the game idea was impossible to function because they never took the time to really adjust things right.

Everytime they tried to fix or adjust anything, they'd do it in a crude, brute, and blunt way.  Example:  just about every profession revamp was meant to make a weak profession "awesome", instead of attempting to make it an average or normally functioning profession.  I remember the chef revamp clearly.  Chef sucked, the food was worthless.  What did they do? instead of incrementally adjusting the modifiers patiently until the profession would balance out, they went ahead and introduced a bunch of "kick-ass" new foods that gave anyone under its effect a new-god-status.  Everyone and their mom suddenly was learning chef.

The game was released unfinished and they tried really hard to unbalance it, truth be told."

In response to Ixontes' post "I joined the darkside" - 05/22/06:

"I still can't forgive SOE for having 3 entire years to learn from their mistakes and be careful with their decisions and actions, particularly the traumatic ones, and still be so stubborn as to not give us the real reasons for those changes and keep feeding us the iconic and starwarsy-tasting remedy.  I spit it out already, I won't swallow it again.
They treat us like children with their corporate apologies.  Have the balls to say everything was broken and extremelly costly to maintain.  I'd give them my respect back and maybe my money a few years down the road, once they finish re-beta everything.

I know that you will keep paying and hoping the game will eventually be "fixed" but seriously, I have heard that tune far too long, and even if they now really are trying, you will still be paying for a beta.

I played and payed beta for far too long, what can I say.

The least I can ask from anyone playing the game atm, is to put pressure on those guys to hurry the hell up before any other game outdoes this one, and that shouldn't be taking too long.  Either that or compromise by giving us pre-CU servers, but I'll probably have reached 3rd age before I see that day."

and finally, where do we stand?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/78239

-virtual tourist
want your game back?

  Scaris

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/04
Posts: 5331

5/24/06 12:41:52 PM#23


Originally posted by Clackamas
I see, so it isn't news that SOE has contributed to such a long standing criticism by veteran players?  Why isn't there  news about that?  Or, are you saying that the only news matters is when SOE announces something?Again, the fact you had to create this thread suggests a story is there.... but I have yet to see one from MMORPG that reports the veteran players side of what SOE did...

I am quite sure you could do the legwork, type out a well written constructive article about SOE's failings and submit it to here with a chance of it getting it posted or posting it as a thread yourself Clackamas. Stradden isn't some investigative reporter, he is a news manager.

I beleive this site is here to keep the fanbase up to date on MMO news and happenings, not try to be the Heraldo Rivera of the MMO news industry.

And btw, MMORPG.COM most certainly did report the vets side of the NGE debacle in their first podcast, or was it the second perhaps...

- Scaris

"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  Clackamas

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/06
Posts: 781

If you see Kay

5/24/06 12:46:45 PM#24

Originally posted by Fadeus


Originally posted by Clackamas

Originally posted by Stradden
My role in this case is as Community Manager. As Community Manager, it is my job to see that the forums run smoothly and that everyone is following the rules. We have noticed that many threads are being hijacked to talk about people's feelings toward Sony Online Entertainment. So, this sticky was created.
My role as News Manager is different. As News Editor, it is not up to me to judge a company, but rather to report the news as it comes in. When major announcements are made, it is my job to bring them to you. You are free to form your own opinions on any of the news items that are presented to you.
I hope that clears things up for you.
Cheers,
Jon "Stradden" Wood, Community Manager
I see, so it isn't news that SOE has contributed to such a long standing criticism by veteran players?  Why isn't there  news about that?  Or, are you saying that the only news matters is when SOE announces something?Again, the fact you had to create this thread suggests a story is there.... but I have yet to see one from MMORPG that reports the veteran players side of what SOE did...

I am quite sure you could do the legwork, type out a well written constructive article about SOE's failings and submit it to here with a chance of it getting it posted or posting it as a thread yourself Clackamas. Stradden isn't some investigative reporter, he is a news manager.

I beleive this site is here to keep the fanbase up to date on MMO news and happenings, not try to be the Heraldo Rivera of the MMO news industry.



Its more fun to see commerical news organizaitions to be critical of corporations.  Besides, the reading level of the average person in the US is about 8th or 9th grade.  Their critical resaoning skills are about the same level.  So, it is much better for the sheep to told to follow by an established news organization rather than some apparently disgruntal customer.  But, then again, news medias are not highly ethical, moral institutions either... no money to made in that.
  Scaris

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/04
Posts: 5331

5/24/06 12:51:23 PM#25

Originally posted by Clackamas
Its more fun to see commerical news organizaitions to be critical of corporations.  Besides, the reading level of the average person in the US is about 8th or 9th grade.  Their critical resaoning skills are about the same level.  So, it is much better for the sheep to told to follow by an established news organization rather than some apparently disgruntal customer.  But, then again, news medias are not highly ethical, moral institutions either... no money to made in that.

So you just want everyone to be lead into a dislike for SOE instead of deciding for themselves. You are sitting there piping about making sure the vets get their side reported when it already has, and then you don't actually want to do the work yourself.

Perhaps they don't want to listen to the disgruntled customer because they know in reality the truth of the event is probably somwhere in the middle and not on the raving lunatics side of the evil corporations side.

And apparently you feel everyone EXCEPT you are sheep lead by the media?

- Scaris

"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  Clackamas

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/06
Posts: 781

If you see Kay

5/24/06 12:56:47 PM#26

Originally posted by Fadeus

Originally posted by Clackamas

And apparently you feel everyone EXCEPT you are sheep lead by the media?


Naw I am not the only one but one of the few.  The rest are lead by media because they can't be bothered, have never been taught or failed to learn critical thinking skills.  And applies to both fanbois and pro pre-CU/pre-NGE posters alike.
  britoca

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/04
Posts: 1486

Time U enjoyed wasting was not wasted

5/24/06 12:57:59 PM#27

Originally posted by BadBoyOnFire
No offence Stradden but i don't think most people are inteionally "highjacking" other peoples threads regarding a single "We hate SoE" issue.

Its the fact the whole game - and every last aspect of it - has changed completely, which prompts discussion on almost all threads.

But, heres my two cents.

"1 H4T3 $0E!!!!!1111111111 LAWL!!!".


Exactly.  A change as drastic as the NGE was beggin for nothing less than thread after thread of intense discussion.  All it takes is for anyone to say something along the lines of "I like this because..."  and it's bait.

peace

-virtual tourist
want your game back?

  Clackamas

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/06
Posts: 781

If you see Kay

5/24/06 1:01:35 PM#28

Originally posted by britoca

Originally posted by BadBoyOnFire
No offence Stradden but i don't think most people are inteionally "highjacking" other peoples threads regarding a single "We hate SoE" issue.

Its the fact the whole game - and every last aspect of it - has changed completely, which prompts discussion on almost all threads.

But, heres my two cents.

"1 H4T3 $0E!!!!!1111111111 LAWL!!!".


Exactly.  A change as drastic as the NGE was beggin for nothing less than thread after thread of intense discussion.  All it takes is for anyone to say something along the lines of "I like this because..."  and it's bait.

peace

This is all fine.. but lets get back to the purpose of this thread... why do we need a special thread?  And why isn't the news of SOE mistreatment of customers and games not getting a news article out of MMORPG?
  Xcathdra

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/06
Posts: 1028

"Eliminate the Impossible, and whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

5/24/06 1:09:17 PM#29

Independant media.. Good gravy what could that mean? IMHO im guessing mmorpg was threatened in some way shape or form from SOE about all the "negativve" feedback that has been coming through here.

We gets posts from people with 2 or 3 posts to their credit about how the game is best.

Now we get this..

Obviously its your forums and you can run them however you see fit. I think its crazy though to think people will only post their hatred of SOE in this forums, while ignoring any other topic that comes up.

SOE is now reaping the rewards from what they have sewn. Let them deal with this on their own. I am pretty sure they dont need help from you guys..

Xcathdra

How many think this thread is a result of SOE loosing a PR war?

Yes- SOE is loosing the PR war.
No- SOE is not loosing the PR war
(login to vote)

Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.

  KrispyJoe

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/06
Posts: 1

5/24/06 1:10:20 PM#30

SWG used to be good. NGE ruined it without a doubt.

http://img1.imageshack.us/img1/1286/smedtruth5tr.png


I Hate SOE for their shady business practices and blatent false promises - "Hey Smugglers, yeah your revamp's comming, just wait ONE MORE Publish"

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=ngesmuggler&message.id=305

  Scaris

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/04
Posts: 5331

5/24/06 1:12:52 PM#31


Originally posted by Xcathdra
Independant media.. Good gravy what could that mean? IMHO im guessing mmorpg was threatened in some way shape or form from SOE about all the "negativve" feedback that has been coming through here.
We gets posts from people with 2 or 3 posts to their credit about how the game is best.
Now we get this..
Obviously its your forums and you can run them however you see fit. I think its crazy though to think people will only post their hatred of SOE in this forums, while ignoring any other topic that comes up.
SOE is now reaping the rewards from what they have sewn. Let them deal with this on their own. I am pretty sure they dont need help from you guys..

Xcathdra


And it couldn't be the obvious could it? It has to be SOE threatening them..

It couldn't be they don't want their public image to be a bunch of raving disgruntled ex-fans re-hashing the NGE debacle over and over again chasing off newcomers that want to post constructively? Couldn't be MMORPG.COM interested in their own image to the industry, no that would make too much sense.

- Scaris

"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15581

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/24/06 1:14:22 PM#32

Originally posted by Clackamas

Originally posted by Fadeus

Originally posted by Clackamas

And apparently you feel everyone EXCEPT you are sheep lead by the media?


Naw I am not the only one but one of the few.  The rest are lead by media because they can't be bothered, have never been taught or failed to learn critical thinking skills.  And applies to both fanbois and pro pre-CU/pre-NGE posters alike.

In essence it seems you are referring to "outside of the box thinking " . Yes in many cases the mass public tends to "follow the herd" so to speak . Yet in most cases within , It usually amounts to a comfort factor . Usually out of the box thinking tends to lean toward a chaotic sense of reality . Which I am far guilty of . Therefor what comes out of my mouth in real life often leaves many completely clueless , what it is I am saying to them .

But in regards to this actual topic . I fail to see much out of the box thinking taking place on either side of the coin .Most people cling to one side of the issue , Totally ignoring any stance  that differs from their own .  That is the epitome of sheepish thinking imo . I would say if you cling to the belief that SOE are "evil" . WIthout looking at things on their end as a buisness not as a charity  (that owes you something) . Its is so inside the box I don't think you could possibly get out . Just as if you fail at all to see why people were mad , And feel SOE has done nothing wrong .

Yes there are other "free" thinking individuals here. But a majority of them remain neutral and non offensive .

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  ixontes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 318

Games played:
UO (97-03), SWG (02-05), Ryzom, CoH (06- ), WoW, LOTRO, Vanguard, DAOC. AoC

5/24/06 1:16:07 PM#33
Has anyone investigated if the Better Business Bureau would get involved?
  Clackamas

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/06
Posts: 781

If you see Kay

5/24/06 1:18:49 PM#34

Originally posted by ixontes
Has anyone investigated if the Better Business Bureau would get involved?
With SOE or MMORPG?
  ixontes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 318

Games played:
UO (97-03), SWG (02-05), Ryzom, CoH (06- ), WoW, LOTRO, Vanguard, DAOC. AoC

5/24/06 1:23:18 PM#35

Originally posted by Clackamas

Originally posted by ixontes
Has anyone investigated if the Better Business Bureau would get involved?
With SOE or MMORPG?

SOE
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15581

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/24/06 1:25:21 PM#36

Originally posted by Wakizashi

This thread surprises me.  It is clear that someone has gotten to mod(s).  Probably some fanboi or crybaby got their feelings hurt and now they made a stinky in their pants. 

Too Bad I say!  I will never stop trolling SOE!  They get exactly what they deserve.  Be it Karma, or outright destiny, what happens, happens for a reason.  If SOE or fanbois don't like hearing bad things, maybe they should cut off their ears. 

Sons of Smedley must die!


If that is the only reason you are here , I don't think MMORPG.com really cares to have your buisness .I know for sure I would not . 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Tymora

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/13/04
Posts: 1312

5/24/06 1:25:24 PM#37

Originally posted by BadBoyOnFire
No offence Stradden but i don't think most people are inteionally "highjacking" other peoples threads regarding a single "We hate SoE" issue.

Its the fact the whole game - and every last aspect of it - has changed completely, which prompts discussion on almost all threads.

But, heres my two cents.

"1 H4T3 $0E!!!!!1111111111 LAWL!!!".

I agree.  If the "hate" that is going around is due to the NGE, then this is an issue that spreads across many mmorpgs topics in general, because with what they've done, SOE has set a precedent.  Whenever there is discussion about another mmorpg and changes to it, this SOE/SWG issues comes to the forefront.  Hopefully, enough of this disapproval can be spread around to negate the precendent set by SOE/SWG, and so developers/publishers will looks down on this low tactic of changing their game, alienating veteran players in order to reach a new demographic and earn a few extra dollars.

With that said, I am proud to say that I am a fan of SOE, I love Everquest and Everquest II, and I have no hate at all.  That doesn't mean I am alright with what they've done to SWG, and it certainly doesn't mean that I will stop expressing my opinions about it, in context with the topic of the thread.

  Harafnir

Elite Member

Joined: 2/18/04
Posts: 1372

5/24/06 1:26:41 PM#38
h8

"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"

  duggo

Novice Member

Joined: 2/01/06
Posts: 387

5/24/06 1:26:58 PM#39


Originally posted by Clackamas

This is all fine.. but lets get back to the purpose of this thread... why do we need a special thread?  And why isn't the news of SOE mistreatment of customers and games not getting a news article out of MMORPG?



What part of this gentle hint to "please stop hijacking every thread that mentions an SOE product with your rants on their treatment of SWG" are you not grasping?

-d




Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online

  Dana

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/04
Posts: 2425

5/24/06 1:36:18 PM#40


Originally posted by Clackamas

This is all fine.. but lets get back to the purpose of this thread... why do we need a special thread?  And why isn't the news of SOE mistreatment of customers and games not getting a news article out of MMORPG?



The problem is that this story is old. We covered the NGE when it came out, we reviewed it and I wrote a quite clear editorial on what I thought of the issue. The problem is that these boards are unusable by anyone who may still want to play the game because anyone who says anything about the game other than "I hate SOE" is chased out the front door before their second post.

A lot of what you guys complain about is fair comment, but really, its been a few months and frankly you've voted with your dollars by canceling your accounts. This thread is here and should easily be a warning for anyone who comes by these boards to see what is up if they did not know. All we want is for all users to be able to discuss things in peace, you guys long ago stopped allowing that, not only on this board but every other SOE boards.

On many of them, it's not even fair comment. Thus, to be fair across them all, we started a thread of this nature. If there are any new developments that cause you to hate SOE more, feel free to discuss them outside this thread. All we ask is that if you want to rant about how much you hate SOE, do it here. If you have a thoughtful discussion that does not involve death threats, then feel free to make new threads. Just end the hijacking of every thread and respect the original poster's desire to talk about whatever they wanted to talk about.

Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios

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