SoE cannot touch the gameplay.

What we have done is become the publishers of our own game. We now have even more control and authority over Vanguard, how it is made, how it is designed, and how it is marketed than we ever had with Microsoft.

I realize there are lots of different feelings about SOE and their games. But whatever those feelings, the fact of the matter is that they know operations and distribution. They will make sure our beta runs the way it needs to, that our game is widely marketed, and that our game is available all over, in all channels.

That is SOE's role in this new partnership with them. Sigil remains Sigil, able to focus now moreso on what we do best -- design, implement, conduct betas, build community, and market.

Brad McQuaid
CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Exec. Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.

Thanks guys at Sigil for at least giving us fair warning about SOE presence.

I really would have been pissed if I signed up for a 1 year plan and found out our old homeboys at SOE were supplying the servers at day 1.

This game has way too many Hands in the Cookie Jar now! And the negative publicity this game is getting now is not even worth looking at. Believe me, this is'nt the only website that has negative emotions about this up and coming mmo.

It was highly anticipated by old X-EQ players that wanted to get away from the 3 letter word. Now this game will end us as a EQ3 with a different twist. I give this game a year, then SOE will take over completely.

Thanks but not thanks. I rather drop money in a Independant mmo than give another dime to SOE.

I merely was stating I would rather waste my money on a independant company than soe (meaning, throw my money away) if your referring to me El..

My relationship with SOE is out all nuts, I supported that company since the hay days when EQ was bought by SOE. No matter what SOE did, I backed them up.

SOE turned EQ into one of the BEST mmorpgs to me. But me and that company had gone thru alot of problems over the years then they got sloppy. They managed to destroy for me the EQ experience (umm where to start) to me giving them another chance with SWG (umm where to start).

I was burned by this company and don't feel like listing my problems. I supported SOE for about 6 years of my life. I am just disappointed how this company turned out to be and won't be supporting any of their titles, no matter how great the game may be or if they have any ties to other mmo's.

However, I did have fun and made alot of online friends thru those SOE games, the only good thing to come out of my experience with Sony.

Elnator,

I completely agree with your point of view here, in fact I share it entirely, but I think that alot of us, and this includes the Sigil Staff, have to sit back and really make an effort to understand what alot of these people (fans/future players) that have been following the production of the game are going through.

SOE, love 'em or hate 'em, have spent alot of time in the last few years building a boat load of annimosity with a good deal of the MMO gaming public. Certainly, they've made some positive strides (I personally feel that EQ2 is right up there as far as quality gaming goes), but with the SWG debacle, MxO digging an even deeper grave then it had before SOE got their hands on it, the release of EQ2 (not exactly a very good experience) and a number of other situations I'm sure you know even more about then I do, well put it all together and you've got yourself quite a few MMO players not exactly thrilled about dealing with the company itself.

Now if your one of the affore mentioned fans, and you've built up all this untapped, unresolved anger with SOE and now your basically told: "Hey, we know you hate them, but financially, this was good, so your stuck with either taking it, or leaving it."

Was it the right decision by Sigil ? Absolutely, hopefully now they have an even greater chance at making this a very very positive experience for those that choose to play their game. But shouldn't we practice a little patience with those have a harder time swallowing a pretty big pill ?

My only suggestion for those truly let down by the decision, please be patient, judge the game on it's merits, not on their associations, try to understand the business sense behind it and trust in the fact that if the game is meant to be great, and is an inspired idea, it will be GREAT for you.

And no matter who has their hands on it, whether it's SOE, Myth, Sigil, WHOEVER, it will always be YOUR game, because as a fan and community supporter,  YOU are what makes it great.

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Originally posted by scaramoosh

SoE cannot touch the gameplay.

What we have done is become the publishers of our own game. We now have even more control and authority over Vanguard, how it is made, how it is designed, and how it is marketed than we ever had with Microsoft.

I realize there are lots of different feelings about SOE and their games. But whatever those feelings, the fact of the matter is that they know operations and distribution. They will make sure our beta runs the way it needs to, that our game is widely marketed, and that our game is available all over, in all channels.

That is SOE's role in this new partnership with them. Sigil remains Sigil, able to focus now moreso on what we do best -- design, implement, conduct betas, build community, and market.

Brad McQuaid
CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Exec. Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.

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Nice spin Brad! Anyone else notice a flaw in this spin? What does Sigil do best; "design, implement, conduct betas, build community, and market".

 And yet they are going to let SOE handle two of those; "They will make sure our beta runs the way it needs to, that our game is widely marketed"

Making contradictory statements in one spin control message shows me just how far in bed Brad has become with SOE!

Looks like I wont be playing Vangaurd

VolatileMan

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Originally posted by Elnator
I love how you guys are.  You want to support indie game companies but those indies have proven time and time and time again that without major backing they can't produce squat.  Everyone raves about Turbine and the 'wonders' that were AC 'back in the bygone era' but wait:

1) Turbine was backed by MS
2) AC wasn't a "huge success", it never broke 130k players and quickly dropped down to 50k after the initial rush of interest wore off.  It is successful... but it's not a "great" MMO... not by a long shot.  And it was horrible at release (thus why over 75% of the population didn't renew.

Another company often lifted up as an example of a great "indie" company is Mythic.  Just a clue.  Mythic wasn't an "indie" company when they made DAOC.  They were already established as a fairly well known developer of online and single player games.  Just not MMORPG's.  CCP is the only "indie" company that I can think of that's produced a truely successful MMORPG.  And even EVE isn't a widely popular game. 

When you look at TRUE indie companies you get these games:  D&L, Irth, Mourning, Dawn/Horizons, Ryzom, etc.  The list is endless of indie developers who have tried to deliver a good MMORPG only to be bashed by those of you who repeatedly state that you want an indie to produce a game.

Just a clue:  Sigil *IS* an Indie company.  They are merely contracting SOE to host their servers and handle their billing and marketting. 

I don't care if you play or not but you guys are the most hypocritical people I've seen.  You want to see indies produce games but when those Indies do what they must in order to get the capitol they need to produce a quality game you jump ship and try your best to kill them.

I don't much like SOE but I also don't see many alternatives for Sigil to produce this game.

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I just wanted to share this with ya'll,

  "Many people at SOE are my personal friends, including Smed, who is one of my best friends." -Brad Mcquaid

   Enjoy Vanguard guys!

im curious how many of these SOE haters have actually been personally "wronged" by them in some way or another.

I have a feeling most of these bashers just lack the ability to think for themselves and do this just because all the cool-kids are doing it.

oh well, their loss in the long run

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Originally posted by Rayx0r
im curious how many of these SOE haters have actually been personally "wronged" by them in some way or another.

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A common example is how SOE/LA implemented the NGE in SWG with only two weeks notice to the playerbase.

Imo, Sigil's decision has only affect initial sales. If the game itself and Sigil preforms, the playerbase will come back regardless of SOE.

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Originally posted by IcoGames

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Originally posted by Rayx0r
im curious how many of these SOE haters have actually been personally "wronged" by them in some way or another.

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A common example is how SOE/LA implemented the NGE in SWG with only two weeks notice to the playerbase.

Imo, Sigil's decision has only affect initial sales. If the game itself and Sigil preforms, the playerbase will come back regardless of SOE.

---

ya i know about the SWG thing and Ive seen them eating crow on it as they continue to work toward improving it.

ive played everquest, planetside, everquest 2 so I cant say they've done anything that I dont agree with.  so until that happens i dont really have any reason to hate them.. just because bob in tucson az got his swg bounty hunter nerfed and his game was revamped.. it doesnt and hasnt effected me.

maybe thats a bad way to look at it, but I dont base my experiences and opinions on someone elses misfortune... I base them on my own experiences.

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Originally posted by Rayx0r

ya i know about the SWG thing and Ive seen them eating crow on it as they continue to work toward improving it.

ive played everquest, planetside, everquest 2 so I cant say they've done anything that I dont agree with.  so until that happens i dont really have any reason to hate them..

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Rayx0r, i played Planetside too and i come to wonder what exactly you agreed with in that game? Was it the CTDs occuring every 15minutes? the memory leaks? The crazy balance issues where 1 guy+lasher could take out 10 opponents and a small tank division then proceed to blow up half of the moon (lasher 2.0) or what about surgiling? TBH i didn't really agree with the griefpoint system wich continues to punish the victims of teamkilling instead of the teamkillers themselves, nor the fact that for 3-4 years of paying a monthly subscription the players received only 1 measly vehicle. If these are the features and the basis for SOE's rule of conduct towards players that you look for when you buy a game, i respect you're POV. But for now, i'll just settle with more SOE bashing. 

->Hint: Try another MMO like WoW or guild wars or Coh/Cov, and you just might notice that SOE's Bug ridden alpha tech demos, PR Disasters, and just obnoxious and greedy marketing arn't the norm on the MMO market. 

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Originally posted by IcoGames

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Originally posted by Rayx0r
im curious how many of these SOE haters have actually been personally "wronged" by them in some way or another.

---

A common example is how SOE/LA implemented the NGE in SWG with only two weeks notice to the playerbase.

Imo, Sigil's decision has only affect initial sales. If the game itself and Sigil preforms, the playerbase will come back regardless of SOE.

---

     Thats really the root of it all.SWG ex fans spamming hate all over about SoE games.Most have not even touched EQ2 yet go around talking about horribly bugged game,when its one of the most polished mmorpg out there.It is not SWG!

  This same people really careless for anything but the fact that their precious jedis became a starter class and no more powerful then the next class.

  They scream about bugs in SWG NOW!But i have frequently checked the SWG forums since i left nearly 2 years ago and there was MINIMAL complaint about any bugs UNLESS it concerned the jedi class.

  When i went back to check SWG for NGE changes i saw plenty of the bugs i saw from launch still unfixed.Yet that community were not concerned how buggy SWG was as long as their jedi can keep slicing the galaxy up.

 WARNING- take what this spammers have to say like a joke because its nothing more then that.SoE has produced many good mmorpg apart from SWG(which is co made by LA by the way),they have experience in the field and i think they do a good job with vanguard.

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Originally posted by Elnator

The SOE haters will bash this regardless of what Brad says.  Because they hate SOE.    It's just not worth discussing.  Personally I don't much like SOE but Sigil made a relatively smart move here.  Microsoft has screwed up every single MMO they've come within 10 feet of.  

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Exactumundo. That's what the haters don't understand, or don't want to. Sigil made a move to get even more control over their game than they would have ever had with Microsoft. The game has an even more solid future, and it's shortsighted and just dumbfoundedly ignorant to see it any other way.

If Vanguard sucks, it won't be because of Sony, just like if it rocks, SOE won't have had anything to do with it.

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Originally posted by r0guy

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Originally posted by Rayx0r

ya i know about the SWG thing and Ive seen them eating crow on it as they continue to work toward improving it.

ive played everquest, planetside, everquest 2 so I cant say they've done anything that I dont agree with.  so until that happens i dont really have any reason to hate them..

---

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Rayx0r, i played Planetside too and i come to wonder what exactly you agreed with in that game? Was it the CTDs occuring every 15minutes? the memory leaks? The crazy balance issues where 1 guy+lasher could take out 10 opponents and a small tank division then proceed to blow up half of the moon (lasher 2.0) or what about surgiling? TBH i didn't really agree with the griefpoint system wich continues to punish the victims of teamkilling instead of the teamkillers themselves, nor the fact that for 3-4 years of paying a monthly subscription the players received only 1 measly vehicle. If these are the features and the basis for SOE's rule of conduct towards players that you look for when you buy a game, i respect you're POV. But for now, i'll just settle with more SOE bashing. 

->Hint: Try another MMO like WoW or guild wars or Coh/Cov, and you just might notice that SOE's Bug ridden alpha tech demos, PR Disasters, and just obnoxious and greedy marketing arn't the norm on the MMO market. 

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lol..I dont know.  I just enjoyed all the games that I played by them

im not an soe fanboy btw, right now i dont have any soe subscriptions.  I have an eve subscription and a wow subscription.  I'll go back to EQ2 in a month or two