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Originally posted by rentantilus
1.  Proof to back up what its title claims. 

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There are no links to research source because it was done via several means and personal exerience with other female gamers.

Female gamers are not a myth, however, single female gamers are! :)

In WoW, my two best friends are female gamers. I met them in the game. However, just like any female I've met in WoW, they are married and basically got into the game because their husbands stopped paying attention to them. They started to play WoW to get closer to their husbands and they themselves found out how much they too love the game.

It is human nature for men to treat women differently. Just because we are human beings interacting with each other in a game world should not make any difference. Just like in real life, I would prefer hanging out with females rather than males. I have always gotten along with the opposite sex better. As a result, some people think that the females who hang out with me online are taking advantage of me because they are girls and I'm a guy and they can get whatever they want from me. The truth is, I help out everyone equally, male or female. I don't give things to or help out a female just because she's a female. Most of the time, they just happen to be a friend, who is also female, and so any help/assistance I give them always looks like "Oh he's just helping her because she's a girl."

I have female friend who is 22 and pretty...but she lives in nevada and closest RL neighbor is 20 miles away...thats her excuse.

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Originally posted by pablo0713

Female gamers are not a myth, however, single female gamers are! :)

In WoW, my two best friends are female gamers. I met them in the game. However, just like any female I've met in WoW, they are married and basically got into the game because their husbands stopped paying attention to them. They started to play WoW to get closer to their husbands and they themselves found out how much they too love the game.

It is human nature for men to treat women differently. Just because we are human beings interacting with each other in a game world should not make any difference. Just like in real life, I would prefer hanging out with females rather than males. I have always gotten along with the opposite sex better. As a result, some people think that the females who hang out with me online are taking advantage of me because they are girls and I'm a guy and they can get whatever they want from me. The truth is, I help out everyone equally, male or female. I don't give things to or help out a female just because she's a female. Most of the time, they just happen to be a friend, who is also female, and so any help/assistance I give them always looks like "Oh he's just helping her because she's a girl."

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That's another myth that dearly needs to be broken to shreds. I know many single female gamers. I met my husband via gaming.  I've been gaming since I was a kid and I'm 30 now and only been married 5 years. So yes there are single female gamers, lots of them.

In the MMO I play I do get treated differantly by some, I think, because I'm female. But to counter that I also get a hell of alot of respect from other gamers because I'm female and the leader of a rather successful guild. So the differant treatment can be varied depending on the person(s) involved. Also differant MMOs help to foster certain kind of responses depending on the overall game attitude. Not to say these games are bad, but differant games create/attract differant attitudes

I know this is kinda out of the blue but.....laurendc,  that link u posted on this thread made my day.  As i read this, i laughing like a maniac.  if u ppl haven't read this, you're really missing out.  an yes, the link does deal with this topic.  XD


http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=3635

you have to read this!

 I am a female and I've been playing MMO's since about 2000.  All of what she states in her article is true.  One of my favorite things to do in MMO's is character creation and roleplay.  I like to feel like a female when I play these games as well, so I prefer to have sexier armor than what males have and I like to look really good as well as be tough in whatever class I choose.  Its not a flirty thing, just that I like to imagine myself in this way.  And after all what is character creation for than to make an avatar that you will love to keep playing and that makes you feel good about your persona in the online world.  I enjoy exploration more than PvP in any game I am in, I'm just not into killing other people...there is too much of that in reality.  I love a good adventure with good companions and roleplay.  So there is my two cents. :)

And a little addition to this after reading an above comment... I am 35 years old and my RL Husband doesn't and has never played Online games.  I began playing because my friends were playing and I've always loved computer games, but the online games seem so much more fun because I am able to share my adventures with others.  I've been playing computer games since my father brought home his old Commodore 64 and Vic20 years and years ago.  Most females that play would probably agree that their playing online games had nothing to do with their husband, but with their own love of the game. :)

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Originally posted by Znith
Personally I get really tired of the girl (woman) gamer myth rehashed over and over.  Myself being a woman I've been online gaming since MUDs were born, fragged since Doom and Duke Nukem was released and played mmo's since The Realm.  Just give me a great playable game, with immersion, good controls and a pc please.  If I like it I will continue to play.

I enjoy games just as much as the typical male. It's the competition, working together for a common goal on a quest, chatting it up about equipment, taking you out with my shotgun in Quake, or just forming online friendships.   I'm tired of people trying to put us in a category all of our own.  Sure more of us might like the SIMs, but then the SIM's was in a league of it's own with no similar competition when it released.

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Ok ugh im just going to start by saying that most of you went besides the point.The posts here were ment to coment on the quality of the article, not stating that ur a female gamer blah blah blah. WE GET IT!! GIRLS CAN BE NERDS TOO WE GET IT!!!

Women have been playing games since the days of bulletin-board fiction threads.  We've managed to become involved in every major title published...we thrive, we don't merely exist.  Many of us have gone on to become quite powerful in the realm of MMO creation...so we're involved from the ground up on games like EQ2, WoW, SWG, CoH/CoV, and the upcoming Hero's Journey.

While we are still a minority in terms of players, our development influences are felt across the board in all the major online titles: we are in graphic design, level design, game art, game system coding, management, production, and senior corporate positions as well as consumer relations.  We're already thinking like women while simultaneously designing great games for everybody. 

The area in which women are neglected is marketing.  Ads featuring a scantily-clad wood nymph with a beckoning, sly smile won't work on a woman the way it works on a man.  We buy the box anyway since the game is inside it, but we know very well that the marketing isn't aimed at us at all.  Frankly, that scantily-clad wood nymph may well have been conceptualized by a female and drawn by a female, and does not necessarily put us off the way some people may think: once we get to the installation disk, the package means very little.  We probably don't want the collectible figurine as much as we'd want a real-life replica of that +100 to strength bracelet <g> but again, it illustrates the fact that women will buy a great game in spite of marketing's efforts to catch the attention of the male market.

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Originally posted by Kostika

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Originally posted by rentantilus
1.  Proof to back up what its title claims. 

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There are no links to research source because it was done via several means and personal exerience with other female gamers.

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Actually, one of the very first tasks that a writer does is to research their topic vigorously. The topic, Female Gamers, Not A Myth begs for factual data to back up your statements. I also would have liked to have seen more of an unbiased voice. The article almost sounds defensive, yet says very little to provoke a meaningful discussion.

I'm in agreement with those before me who summed up this article as a facsimile of just another female post on any number of other forums out there.

An article that is very disappointing.

BTW, don't most writers spell check their posts? I think you meant EXPERIENCE -- not exerience.

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Originally posted by kishe
I have female friend who is 22 and pretty...but she lives in nevada and closest RL neighbor is 20 miles away...thats her excuse.

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What gets me is when you first hear that a character online is a women, people immediately want to see a picture and judge if she's hot. NEWSFLASH there are lots of pretty women who play games too. They arent all out getting laid and booty dancing at the club, like pretty women are supposed to, right? 

What does it matter? Im not concerned with whether one of my online guy friends is hot irl and I dont obsess about hearing his voice on teamspeak so i can see if it sounds sensual.

Even online, where you cant see anyone, people still want to judge women on their looks. Its no different from the real world, if you're sexist irl, you're sexist in game, only the annoninimity brings it out a little more. So there is no mystery why people treat women characters differently and there is no mystery why alot of women chose not to say they are there.

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Originally posted by tessa

I used to think that perhaps women did want other things from games than men but it simply isn't true.   The reasons we women play are just as varied as why men play so there's no magic 'ingredient' to put in games to draw and retain women.     Personally, I enjoy mmorpgs, rpgs, and games like CIV as well as the old adventure games.   I started playing with no prompting whatsoever as soon as I owned my first pc in 1987 and have been playing mmorpgs since UO.  In fact, I rarely watch tv and prefer gaming any day of the week just like my husband and most people I know who are gamers, male and female.

-Tessa

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Im sorry but this is just plain wrong. Several studies has been done on not only gaming but also movies, sports etc and they mostly show that females prefer other games/movies/sports than men generally do. Females tend to like romantic movies where as men are more into action/sci-fi and as for games females seem to be more into social part of games where as men are more into the action part.

Men and women are different, there is no question about it. And there is no reason to believe that they wouldnt be different in what games they like. This ofcourse is generally speaking and it is very well possible for a girl to like Counterstrike as it is for her to go lift weights at a gym.

The only way to look at it is by doing statistical studies and they clearly show that women are different than men in many areas, including gaming.

nm I was wrong,

Many good points from many people.

A well designed game is a draw.

Character design is good for both.  We all enjoy making our character personal to us.  The more options the better.

The main difference I see is using voice.  In my guilds with the people I know, I have no problem using a mic, but with the general population, i have found it better to just type. 

I personally don't like PvP, but know it is fun for many.

In conclusion: I agree that men and women both want the same thing in a game.  The reasons why are as varied as the many people with their own unique opinions.  Game designer's have to try to incorporate as many items in the game as possible. 

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Originally posted by Qabalah

Actually, one of the very first tasks that a writer does is to research their topic vigorously. The topic, Female Gamers, Not A Myth begs for factual data to back up your statements. I also would have liked to have seen more of an unbiased voice. The article almost sounds defensive, yet says very little to provoke a meaningful discussion.

I'm in agreement with those before me who summed up this article as a facsimile of just another female post on any number of other forums out there.

An article that is very disappointing.

BTW, don't most writers spell check their posts? I think you meant EXPERIENCE -- not exerience.

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Hard numbers are impossible. When it comes to what anyone wants from a game it's all based on opinions. There are no hard facts, only opinions. All I did was compile the opinions from women I talked to about the subject. I'm sorry there isn't hard data, but that's just how opinions work.

It may be a copy of what female gamers have been saying for ages on forums, but it bears saying again in a form that gets noticed. The steroetype isn't broken yet and that is the point. Yes it keeps getting said, but people jsut aren't listening. Otherwise there wouldn't be the horrible stereotype that women don't play games or they're only into girly things.

And excuse me for missing a typo.

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Originally posted by pablo0713

Female gamers are not a myth, however, single female gamers are! :)

In WoW, my two best friends are female gamers. I met them in the game. However, just like any female I've met in WoW, they are married and basically got into the game because their husbands stopped paying attention to them. They started to play WoW to get closer to their husbands and they themselves found out how much they too love the game.

It is human nature for men to treat women differently. Just because we are human beings interacting with each other in a game world should not make any difference. Just like in real life, I would prefer hanging out with females rather than males. I have always gotten along with the opposite sex better. As a result, some people think that the females who hang out with me online are taking advantage of me because they are girls and I'm a guy and they can get whatever they want from me. The truth is, I help out everyone equally, male or female. I don't give things to or help out a female just because she's a female. Most of the time, they just happen to be a friend, who is also female, and so any help/assistance I give them always looks like "Oh he's just helping her because she's a girl."

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Bah I am single, however I am also 47 years old. ;)  I was married for 23 1/2 years (and no gaming did not end the marriage).   I have done most of my Online gaming SINCE the divorce.   And my super at work is 28 and single (tho taken) and she plays. ;)   And out of the other 3 women in out wow guid only 1 was married.  You must be getting to know the wrong ones. ;)  

Is this article about what we all want in a mmorpg or breaking the sterotype that women don't play games? I don't see anything about women not playing games. Women has always been playing video games and the sterotype has been broken very long ago.

Besides, most of the other threads about female gamers is just females saying they play video games too. Nothing wrong with that. They don't say that things are not equal are anything like that...not much anyway.

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Originally posted by Znith

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Originally posted by Rikimaru_X

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Originally posted by Znith
Personally I get really tired of the girl (woman) gamer myth rehashed over and over.  Myself being a woman I've been online gaming since MUDs were born, fragged since Doom and Duke Nukem was released and played mmo's since The Realm.  Just give me a great playable game, with immersion, good controls and a pc please.  If I like it I will continue to play.

I enjoy games just as much as the typical male. It's the competition, working together for a common goal on a quest, chatting it up about equipment, taking you out with my shotgun in Quake, or just forming online friendships.   I'm tired of people trying to put us in a category all of our own.  Sure more of us might like the SIMs, but then the SIM's was in a league of it's own with no similar competition when it released.

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I agree with you. It's as if some people (or women) think that the rise of female gamers is beginning when it's been there for years.

You are the first female (I think) I ever herd that has mentioned Duke Nukem. I'm guessing you go way back (like my father).  

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Ack I hope I'm not as old as your father!  LOL   But yeah I'm in my mid 30's and have been gaming for a while now.   I'm addicted, I admit it and I don't ever want to find a cure!

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My dad might be about 10+ older than you though. My mom is older than my dad, she just sticks to simple games like Ms. Pac Man.

I'm rather tired of people treating the whole 'Girl Gamer' thing like it's some big deal. It's not. Girls are people and have as much right to enjoy the awesomeness of games just like the rest of us.

I believe in treating girl gamers exactly the same as guy gamers (that's what they want isn't it?), which to me also means not deifying their presence.

You're a girl gamer? Good for you, welcome to the club, don't be a noob. The End.

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Originally posted by Renegade94
I know this is kinda out of the blue but.....laurendc,  that link u posted on this thread made my day.  As i read this, i laughing like a maniac.  if u ppl haven't read this, you're really missing out.  an yes, the link does deal with this topic.  XD


http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=3635

you have to read this!

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ROFL!!

Those poor kids...

Anyways... I didn't get a computer until fairly late in my life (16 :P) so had to leech off of my cousins ' *shifty*

I've been drawn to video games and computers for as long as I've known about them, though, and played since I was 12 or 13... But... that's not to say that just because this thread is full of girls/ women who does play, they're not far between... Most of the women I know, are pretty helpless at a computer, even worse at games.

Again, though, it's not like they're a myth. I know quite a lot of girls/ women online, both in games and out of games. But... My friends lists are still heavily inclined towards male players.

With that said:

What I look for in MMORPGS, or any other game, is Freedom.

Freedom to be something, or even everything that I am not. The more freedom in a game, the more it'll hook me. I don't much care for PvP, material accomplishments, accumulating wealth, etc etc. I want customization - in char creation, surrroundings, and in the continous change in appearance as my char developes. I want story (not to be confused with content - I find more often than not that what game devs call content, I think of as constricting and 'just' fixed missions). I want freedom in choices, and direction. Unlimited (utopian :P) freedom.

I found most of it in SWG, in an RPing community on the Chim Server.

However - the game stopped meaning anything to me after SOE repeatedly overruled their player base. I stopped playing the game, devoting all my time to RPing and living in Mos Entha or around. The game mechanics lost all meaning and purpose to me, as they continued to decrease the amount of freedom the game used to have, and I increasingly had to make my own freedom with what limited tools at my disposal.

I like having to use my imagination, but when people don't read bios, it can be hard :P - besides... as much as I like using my imagination, when I'm paying a small fortune for accounts, I'd like to be catered to once in a while *blushes*

I think, though, that Fallen Earth - if Icarus Studios can deliver just half of what they're dreaming of - will be the answer to my prayers :D

Just a look into what this girl likes about gaming *shifty*

One person can't speak for all women gamers, but this is an important topic. It is a big deal.

In addition to speaking with girl gamers, companies should be hiring more women as developers, designers, creative directors, and usability specialists.

As for those who question the predominance of sexism in the industry:

     Five years ago, a study released by the advocacy group Children Now found that "38 percent of female game characters had large breasts and 46 percent had unusually small waists." In a subsequent study, researchers reported that one out of five female characters displayed exposed breasts or midriffs. Even sophisticated and "woman-friendly" titles such as World of Warcraft and Everquest portray female avatars as pole-dancing airheads with enormous cleavage. In the words of one female gamer and researcher, many women hate their avatar choices in the game Everquest because "they have to wear chain-mail bikinis."

      Despite the game industry's sexist tendencies, women are an increasingly influential segment of the gaming community. According to a study conducted in 2001 by the Interactive Digital Software Association, women purchase approximately half of all software games. Although young men are more likely to play on home gaming consoles, the Pew Internet and American Life Project reports that 60 percent of all college-age women regularly play online computer games, compared to only 40 percent of their male counterparts.

For more information, see: http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15251543&BRD=2318&PAG=461&dept_id=550942&rfi=6