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Star Citizen

Star Citizen 

General Discussion  » What's with all the money?

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51 posts found
  The.agG

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/14
Posts: 123

8/10/14 8:46:11 AM#21
Originally posted by Saio3

Im sorry, I had a long night and had to wake up early so I'm not in the best of moods, But this is just plain stupid. So the cashflow should stop...right...how are you going to do that? Are you going to ask a for profit company to stop making profit? Are you going to ask the consumer to stop...consuming? This to me is like those crazy hobos on the streets with a big "The end is near" sign. Futile...and stupid...

 

It just ocurred to me that those crying about SC succes didnt even pledge at all, As an investor point of view you would like to see the company you invested (pledged) to is growing and growing. But that's not the case here.

 

Just plain stupid I say....

Nobody wants them to stop but the whole point is about concentrating on the actual game instead of gimmicks like the Trailers, teasers and then the new racing shit and even new ships when there is not even a decent playable version of the game (no, a small buggy module containing 2 maps and 2 modes does not count as one). Before someone comes running over with the argument about different teams doing different stuff, think about something called diverting resources. But they aren't doing that, they continue to put out money making stuff even more than before while the main game keeps on getting delayed.

And here's my proof about being a backer and that i have the game installed and been playing it.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/citizens/AGG

http://imgur.com/mtFcnkQ

And i am still gonna say that what they are doing is not what i expected from them as i explained in my previous post.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 7964

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

8/10/14 12:53:35 PM#22
Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade
Sounds more like he underestimated just how expensive the project would be.

Maybe for an inexperienced developer,he is experienced and i am sure would tell you he has a very good team as well.

What bothers me is a high number of gamer's seem to think they are going to get fair value for all the money they are sending his way.There is no way this is on the up n up and i'll tell you why.

When you design a game,it has to be done BEFORE you start and if you are going to feed a hook line n sinker to your potential audience you also need to have the game design SET,otherwise you would be lying to them about your intentions on design.

I also agree that others as well have made claims that crowd funding is worth far more because you eliminate so much overhead.I would say 10x seems far fetched but depends on your staying power.Example a FF game would have a little more control of the contract than an upstart developer.Point being a newb might only get 10-20% but a veteran developer would push for better numbers.So taking it on it's lowest value,yes 10x is possible.

None the less if we take it even at 3x,he would have 150 million.Does ANYONE either supporting or on these forums expect to see a game worth 150 million?Not i actually expect a very weak game  not worth my time but of course i have different tastes  and higher expectations than others.

Bottom line is any true gamer wants to see every game come out as amazing,it gives us a lot of choice to play games,i just don't see it from this guy,not a chance in hell.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 7964

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

8/10/14 1:02:17 PM#23
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by rpmcmurphy

What gives? Was his original pitch just a load of BS or is he still trying to play the little guy card despite having almost $50 million in the pot?

 

what the hell are you talking about, game is supposed to run 10 years or longer, how should the initial budget last forever?

SWTOR cost around 250 $ million and guess what they still need money to pay their employees they have working on the title.

every MMO needs fresh money as long as it runs, or development stops

basics

 

50 million is not actually that much for triple A, sure they can make more with it than within a publisher money but if the money

flow would stop right now, they could only push SC 1.0 release out the door and right afterwards, fire everyone and close the office

GW2 would lay claim to that being totally false.

It ALWAYS depends on the quality of the game and quality of future content.If you deliver a game full of instances and low graphics it will cost pennies to run.Then if your future content is also low budget,it again takes little money to survive from xpac to xpac.

Yes of course you always need money to survive as a business but if your game only costs 10-20 million under normal standards and yo uhave 50 million in over than above normal you have a TON of money to last until xpac sales.

I don't think anyone really knows but my feeling is this is a VERY small team,the SLOW lack of content done so far is proof of that,either that or they have a very weak team working on the game.

I don't think we can compare SWTOR to any game because imo that was a lot of wasted money,the game does not look to be a 250 mil game,not every developer is as efficient or competent as the next.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Xyire

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/13
Posts: 64

8/10/14 2:46:08 PM#24
Originally posted by adam_nox
Considering how far this money would go towards infrastructure, food relief, and worthy causes, consider the lives lost just so that one guy can get mega rich before the game sells a single copy.  Likely tens of thousands of lives.  All that blood on his hands and those who enable him by encouraging such reckless spending on p2w ships.

no. just no.  this is the type of thing that makes people completely dismiss any argument that supports what you're arguing for because its so idiotic.  If you want to think that way, you should never buy anything ever besides the most bare necessities because someone somewhere is worse off than you.  

 

Blood on his hands.... yikes. I agree their funds are going to the wrong places and at this point the game just feels like pretty ships and a massive waste of money.  But again, inflammatory nonsense doesn't help your cause, in fact it hurts it.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5411

8/10/14 2:53:34 PM#25
Originally posted by rpmcmurphy

When Roberts was cheerleading his fantasy to the media he claimed that crowdfunded dollars were worth 4-5x the amount that traditional funding was worth, ie 10 million crowdfunded was worth 40-50 million traditional.

Star Citizen is currently sitting at $49 million so $196-245 million equivalent, yet in his latest newsletter he says "To sustain this level of development, we need to keep bringing in additional funds. Star Citizen is still much less than the other published backed AAA games that have similar levels of ambition (some would even say a little less :-) ) like GTA V, Watch Dogs or Destiny."

What gives? Was his original pitch just a load of BS or is he still trying to play the little guy card despite having almost $50 million in the pot?

I thought last year he said that because of the large support for crowd funding that they decided to go 100% crowd funding. I am pretty sure I saw the video of him saying that on youtube.

Correlation does not imply causation

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2704

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

8/10/14 3:12:27 PM#26
I supported SC with a pledge and I really don't regret it. What I do regret is the brazen cockiness of Robert to think he can forgo the intake of investment dollars over trying to milk fans in its place. He wants more of the pie and instead of doing what's best to get to the fans what was promised from the beginning.

While at the same time banking on the depth I his supporters pockets. I just hope his call was not wrong. We all know what can happen when one man is left making all the decisions.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5411

8/10/14 3:17:48 PM#27
Originally posted by Ramonski7
I supported SC with a pledge and I really don't regret it. What I do regret is the brazen cockiness of Robert to think he can forgo the intake of investment dollars over trying to milk fans in its place. He wants more of the pie and instead of doing what's best to get to the fans what was promised from the beginning.

While at the same time banking on the depth I his supporters pockets. I just hope his call was not wrong. We all know what can happen when one man is left making all the decisions.

I watched the progress of Star Citizen for a few weeks and in that short time here is what I learned.

1. He originally planned on part crowd funding and part traditional. However, once the huge positive response in dollars happened he decided to make the project completely crowdfunded.

2. Elder Scrolls Online cost 200 million dollars to make, anyone who thinks this project will be even half that much is not thinking clearly....including Mr. Roberts. However my question to the fans is this, what is his projected budget for the game?

Correlation does not imply causation

  Angzt

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/05/07
Posts: 235

"Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional."(Bob Monkhouse)

8/10/14 3:57:45 PM#28

i'm gonna go build my own theme park! with blackjack! and hookers!

infact, forget the park!

"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid… and i did it anyway!"

  DocBrody

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1815

8/10/14 4:30:22 PM#29
Originally posted by Angzt

i'm gonna go build my own theme park! with blackjack! and hookers!

infact, forget the park!

I bet the pleasure/gambling planet in SC will have interesting strip clubs..

  vveaver_online

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/27/03
Posts: 270

To weave the fabric of space and time into one life through the games we play!

8/10/14 5:02:48 PM#30

I will continue to subscribe to SC development for as long as it takes to make this the best space sim game ever.

I believe in Chris Roberts and his team and I follow the development closely, the game needs a constant flow of cash so why would they stop selling ships? The ships are just "bonus" stuff you get for helping fund the game, its not supposed to be you as a consumer buying something that will have the same value ingame when the game is released, you are getting something for helping fund this game.

I don't understand why that is such a hard concept for some people to understand, and why or how come some gamers think they are buying either a advantage and or thinking the ships will have that monetary value once the game is released, btw the game will not be released before 2016 at earliest so they will need to keep funding the game.

So if i want to give them lets say 1000$, they could either just take my money and give me nothing in return and I would be just as happy as if they filled my hangar with ships that I most likely will get ingame after just a few hours of playing the game.

I give CIG some of my money everymonth, and for that I do not really expect any of these "fluff" ships, I would be just as happy just getting the behind the scenes footage and development videos. Getting the ships, and the ship trailers is just a added bonus, and will not be of any real value once the game is released.

If you "only" want to play the game and not help with funding I suggest you pay the minimum amount to get into alpha/beta/persistent universe and then not buy any more ships until the game is released (around 2016).

If you want to help fund the game with your cash then I'm sure your happy your getting something extra everytime you hand over some of your cash while the game is being developed from the ground up.

If you do not think that funding this game is worth it, then by all means do not do it, but don't go around forums and create bad press for a great development team  actually making a game that I for once really believe in, just because you do not understand whats really going on. This is not some moneygrab, all the information you could possibly need is there in their forums, in their spreadcheats, in their videos, its one of the most transparent and open development cycles of any game i'v ever seen!.  

  delta9

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/05
Posts: 344

8/11/14 3:37:17 AM#31

After they milk people with all their new and exciting ships to "buy" and now that income has obviously dried up now they try to get more money by claiming it is needed to continue development - and i am quite sure many people will pay up even more money.

It is great marketing as so many people are quite heavily invested in this game they want a return for that investment - but to get that return they now need to give more money. Best case scenario this shows bad management of the 50 million they were already given. Worst case well...

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3573

8/22/14 10:25:00 AM#32
Originally posted by Saio3

Im sorry, I had a long night and had to wake up early so I'm not in the best of moods, But this is just plain stupid. So the cashflow should stop...right...how are you going to do that? Are you going to ask a for profit company to stop making profit? Are you going to ask the consumer to stop...consuming? This to me is like those crazy hobos on the streets with a big "The end is near" sign. Futile...and stupid...

 

It just ocurred to me that those crying about SC succes didnt even pledge at all, As an investor point of view you would like to see the company you invested (pledged) to is growing and growing. But that's not the case here.

 

Just plain stupid I say....

You are comparing funding for a project to making profit on sales and are calling others stupid.

But yes, you are right,  they are very successful into convincing people to give them money lol.

Oh, and you might want to look up the meaning of investor. Because pledging doesn't make you one. And the growth you are talking about is just a growing pile of money that has not lead to any substantial result yet. Investor, lol.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3573

8/22/14 10:38:28 AM#33

I think this is all very interesting. The pledgers range from sensible people to gullible idiots.

Sensible people, who willingly take a risk, knowing that their money might end up badly spent, but see a good idea and would like to help realising it and for that reason don't mind spending money. I can relate to that.

Then there is the other (my impression, larger) group that make up silly reasons for spending the money. They think they are investors, or they come up with the craziest comparisons of other ways to spend the same amount of money or other silly excuses. Meanwhile sometimes pledging money for amounts that you could buy several brand new games for. Talking as if they already got something in return. Or have some influence on the project or something. Well, good luck to you guys :p

  Karu403

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/11/04
Posts: 52

8/22/14 11:05:04 AM#34
Originally posted by Angzt

i'm gonna go build my own theme park! with blackjack! and hookers!

infact, forget the park!

well said

http://youtu.be/NA22XEuuR-U

  ChicagoCub

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 309

8/22/14 11:11:22 AM#35
A lot of people are going to get very rich by the time it's all said and done.  The only questions are will there be a game at the end of all of this and will it be worth all the money the fans poured into it?  Time will tell.
  mayito7777

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/08/09
Posts: 539

8/26/14 11:40:59 AM#36
Originally posted by ChicagoCub
A lot of people are going to get very rich by the time it's all said and done.  The only questions are will there be a game at the end of all of this and will it be worth all the money the fans poured into it?  Time will tell.

QFT, time will tell, until them no money from me until the game is released.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5411

8/26/14 4:29:16 PM#37

a few points on this string.

1. 50 million is not enough to make a high quality MMO not by a long shot.

2. statements of Cloud getting money from investors is old information. After a larger than expected early day kickstarter the developers decided to drop the idea of investor funding...100%.

3. I think the only people who expect to get a game because they gave money are actually the people not giving money. People who do give money understand the risk and are not expecting anything but are hoping for alot. In fact, unlike investing in Enron they know what they are getting into? (what is it with me an Enron)

Correlation does not imply causation

  Ezze902

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/28/14
Posts: 34

9/02/14 6:24:44 PM#38
Originally posted by Kangaroomouse
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by rpmcmurphy

What gives? Was his original pitch just a load of BS or is he still trying to play the little guy card despite having almost $50 million in the pot?

50 million is not actually that much for triple A, sure they can make more with it than within a publisher money but if the money

flow would stop right now, they could only push SC 1.0 release out the door and right afterwards, fire everyone and close the office

Elite: Dangerous looks, sounds and plays a lot better for a lot less and it will most likely be released this year. Star Citizen is not even in the same league.

----

Now explain to me again how Star citizen still needs more money if their "dogfight module" already is way below AAA quality.

What have they done with the $50 million so far? Produced fancy teasers and trailers to sell more spaceships, that is where all the money is going, it's smells like a ponzi scheme.

 

 

I love your posts, this is exactly why I havnet put any money into a kickstarter... because its an idea... nothing more till its actually created.

Biggest mmo con ever...  BUt then again Darkfall actually did get released after how many years?

  dumbo11

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/03/05
Posts: 134

9/03/14 3:07:28 AM#39

 


Originally posted by Wizardry
Yes of course you always need money to survive as a business but if your game only costs 10-20 million under normal standards and yo uhave 50 million in over than above normal you have a TON of money to last until xpac sales. I don't think anyone really knows but my feeling is this is a VERY small team,the SLOW lack of content done so far is proof of that,either that or they have a very weak team working on the game.

 

According to CIG there are ~260 people working on the game with over half being internal.

It's a sizeable team, with internal yearly costs probably in the region of $10-20m/year?

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3673

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

9/03/14 3:31:28 AM#40


Originally posted by DocBrody

Originally posted by rpmcmurphy What gives? Was his original pitch just a load of BS or is he still trying to play the little guy card despite having almost $50 million in the pot?
 

what the hell are you talking about, game is supposed to run 10 years or longer, how should the initial budget last forever?


No it shouldn't.

Whats supposed to happen is a game is developed with funding, then once the project is completed run on its generated revenue.

It is absurd to expect that development funds should cover running costs for the next 10 years.


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