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89 posts found
  Ghabbo

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/02/11
Posts: 207

8/28/14 9:49:50 PM#61
Originally posted by maccarthur2004
Originally posted by LacedOpium
Originally posted by grimal

I wasn't aware that SWTOR did not allow posts for nonsubscribers;  I look at their forums from time to time but never post there (I will check though now since I have stopped my sub).

Two questions:

1) If F2P MMO  ==  trashy forums....what is the answer?  I haven't looked recently but is this common amongst any other F2P mmos (EQ1, Marvel, APB)?  If so, what do they do?  Limit the forum to sub or an elevated status level?

2) If F2P != trashy forums....why on this one?  Is it really because people are that upset?  Or is it due to a certain crowd being drawn to this title??  If so, what do they do?  If they start a massive wave of post deletions, I'm sure the crowd will flock to other sites complaining of it.  Or do they wipe at launch and limit thereafter?

 

Please do not turn this into a free to play vs sub flame war. 

 

F2P +  AAA + PvP + OW +  Popular + Hype + Quality Game = Garbage Community

WoW isn't F2P and hasn't OW FFA PVP, but still has the worst comunity of all mmos.

 

It's been a while since I don't play WoW, but I'm pretty sure MMOs "community quality" became gradually normalized throughout the years. There are some exceptions though.

 

 

  fearu

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/10/10
Posts: 113

8/28/14 9:55:35 PM#62

AA has been far too over-hyped and now that lots more people are trying it in the so called "Beta" tests they are finding themselves majorly disappointed at what they are presented with. They are then heading to the forums to vent and like usual the diehard fans can't help but vehemently defend the game, producing the poop-cycle you see on the official forums.

 

 

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2300

 
OP  8/28/14 11:32:41 PM#63
Originally posted by Pepeq
Originally posted by grimal

I wasn't aware that SWTOR did not allow posts for nonsubscribers;  I look at their forums from time to time but never post there (I will check though now since I have stopped my sub).

Two questions:

1) If F2P MMO  ==  trashy forums....what is the answer?  I haven't looked recently but is this common amongst any other F2P mmos (EQ1, Marvel, APB)?  If so, what do they do?  Limit the forum to sub or an elevated status level?

2) If F2P != trashy forums....why on this one?  Is it really because people are that upset?  Or is it due to a certain crowd being drawn to this title??  If so, what do they do?  If they start a massive wave of post deletions, I'm sure the crowd will flock to other sites complaining of it.  Or do they wipe at launch and limit thereafter?

 

Please do not turn this into a free to play vs sub flame war. 

They're likely to wipe the forums for launch since its all beta related now anyways.

Since the game is F2P, you're giving access to people who might not actually even be playing the game.  This is something that subscription based games can filter out... no active sub, no forum privileges.  Doesn't really stop the vile... paying customers can be just as bad.  Ultimately you need moderated forums... which they currently really don't moderate.  But if you moderate, you also tend to drive the course of the discussion in your favor.

People already flock to other sites to post their opinions... you see it here everyday... including this post itself... we're discussing forum moderation at a developer's website on another website.  Should it not happen at the place in which the discussion is most relevant?  But to do so would be to enter into the arena, and the assumption is, you're not going to be immediately beheaded here where it is an absolute certainty to occur there.

I think if you consider the people who are playing the game and who never even once post on forums such as these are the very people you seek to have a discussion with, it seems odd that you would even expect anything less than what you observe at the other forums.  They aren't the people you wish to enter into a discussion with, unless arguments and whatnot are what you seek.

You take moderation out of the Blizzard forums, it will quickly turn into a cesspool.  You allow anyone to post there, it's an absolute certainty.  Again, the preponderance of the playerbase has never once visited their forums.  The ones that do complain about the game to the same extent as they would here... only a ban hammer is levied above their heads to keep them in check.

So what's the best way for future companies going the f2p route to handle this?   If I'm a paying subscriber and the forums are constantly flooded with garbage like that, I'd be angry.  Yet as a f2p player, I would like the ability to ask questions or speak about the game on the forums.

i know blizzard at one time considered using real names to show in account posts.  I'm wondering if something along those lines is a better solution or just too drastic.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  Bad.dog

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 1043

8/29/14 12:04:23 AM#64

So what's the best way for future companies going the f2p route to handle this?   If I'm a paying subscriber and the forums are constantly flooded with garbage like that, I'd be angry.  Yet as a f2p player, I would like the ability to ask questions or speak about the game on the forums.

As always in life it only takes a few real asshats to cause a lot of grief for a great number of reasonable folks

  Drunk-fu

Elite Member

Joined: 12/01/10
Posts: 116

8/29/14 12:55:15 AM#65

Those who say wow has the worst community, have obviously never played Aion.

But to be honest, whatever game you may play, the assoles will always find  you.

It really is just the law of large numbers. The more player there is, the more asshole you'll find.

And people who aren't satisfied with something,  are the ones who tend to be the louder.

Why most people goes to a forum is, they either have a question or a complaint.

You don't visit the forums to say how your day was.

Though this shouldn't mean that people have to act like 10y/o laptop gangstas.

They do it because most people who will read/comment on your topic will most likely be the ones who are complaining.

I do belive this is partly Trion's fault. Because they advertise their product as F2P.

Sure you aren't forced to cough up the cash, to get to were you want faster.

And this is where the players are wrong. Because they see this as a limitation on their gaming experience, rather than an extra for P2P players.

My personal opinion is that, people shouldn't just torrent games.

Then get upset if they have to pay for something, and there is no backdoor to avoid it.

I think it is very simple, if you want to play with a game, you have to play by the rules they set for you.

If you don't agree with the rules,  then don't  play it, but trying to force your own rules, opinion on a company is just... sorry... but retarded. And this is the qq we see on the official forum.

Im sorry if my opinion hurt any of the above mentioned assholes.

And sorry for my poor English knowledge, as i learnt it from games.

  Asariasha

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/05/11
Posts: 215

8/29/14 1:03:11 AM#66
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Pepeq
Originally posted by grimal

I wasn't aware that SWTOR did not allow posts for nonsubscribers;  I look at their forums from time to time but never post there (I will check though now since I have stopped my sub).

Two questions:

1) If F2P MMO  ==  trashy forums....what is the answer?  I haven't looked recently but is this common amongst any other F2P mmos (EQ1, Marvel, APB)?  If so, what do they do?  Limit the forum to sub or an elevated status level?

2) If F2P != trashy forums....why on this one?  Is it really because people are that upset?  Or is it due to a certain crowd being drawn to this title??  If so, what do they do?  If they start a massive wave of post deletions, I'm sure the crowd will flock to other sites complaining of it.  Or do they wipe at launch and limit thereafter?

 

Please do not turn this into a free to play vs sub flame war. 

They're likely to wipe the forums for launch since its all beta related now anyways.

Since the game is F2P, you're giving access to people who might not actually even be playing the game.  This is something that subscription based games can filter out... no active sub, no forum privileges.  Doesn't really stop the vile... paying customers can be just as bad.  Ultimately you need moderated forums... which they currently really don't moderate.  But if you moderate, you also tend to drive the course of the discussion in your favor.

People already flock to other sites to post their opinions... you see it here everyday... including this post itself... we're discussing forum moderation at a developer's website on another website.  Should it not happen at the place in which the discussion is most relevant?  But to do so would be to enter into the arena, and the assumption is, you're not going to be immediately beheaded here where it is an absolute certainty to occur there.

I think if you consider the people who are playing the game and who never even once post on forums such as these are the very people you seek to have a discussion with, it seems odd that you would even expect anything less than what you observe at the other forums.  They aren't the people you wish to enter into a discussion with, unless arguments and whatnot are what you seek.

You take moderation out of the Blizzard forums, it will quickly turn into a cesspool.  You allow anyone to post there, it's an absolute certainty.  Again, the preponderance of the playerbase has never once visited their forums.  The ones that do complain about the game to the same extent as they would here... only a ban hammer is levied above their heads to keep them in check.

So what's the best way for future companies going the f2p route to handle this?   If I'm a paying subscriber and the forums are constantly flooded with garbage like that, I'd be angry.  Yet as a f2p player, I would like the ability to ask questions or speak about the game on the forums.

i know blizzard at one time considered using real names to show in account posts.  I'm wondering if something along those lines is a better solution or just too drastic.

 

The problem with today's free-2-play players is that they firmly believe that the customer is always right. But back when this phrase was formed, customer meant paying customer. This and the anonymity of the internet given, you are facing players that act like emotionally disturbed children.

The customer is worth everything and nothing. Especially in free-2-play games. Without them there wouldn't be a business. But if you see it from an economic stand point and calculate the average revenue per user which ranges in free-2-play titles somewhere between € 1.00 - 5.00.-, there is absolutely no justification to address the issues of trolls.

Your solution is not too drastic. It is probably the only solution to maintain a healthy forum community for a free-2-play title without having high expenses on Community Management. People simply tend to have better manners when they have a "face".

 

 

  jesteralways

Elite Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 616

8/29/14 1:23:09 AM#67
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by jesteralways
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by fivoroth
Typical "freeloader" comments. These people have jobs and are so busy and can't afford 9 bucks a month. Really? That's like 1-2 pints of beer!

Exactly.  Maybe they feel the beer is the worth price but not the game.  I can think of quite a few games that I would rather spend the money on piss beer than waste it on a sub.  It's all about perceived value and right now even Keystone is more worthy of my money than any sub based MMO. 

Then don't play these games, It is as simple as that. you wanna play their game, you want to enjoy the game to your heart's content but as soon as a topic of payment(for something that is valid and reasonable, not trying to grab cash for something like quick bar) comes you tell them to fuck off, you go to their forums and use slur, you come to a mmo site and antagonize the game and publisher. that is a mental problem

LOL.  Easy there killer. 

I was talking of perceived value and I think you mistook me for someone that wants to,..hmm lets see:

1) Wants to play a f2p game until my heart is content?  Not even remotely sure where you got that from.  Thinking a game is not worth a sub is not the same as wanting to play a f2p game.

2) Telling people to "fuck off".  No, I didn't do that either.

3) I go to game's forums and use slurs.  No, though I think you fit that bill.

4) I go to an MMO site and antagonize a game and it's publisher?  Seriously?

Funny you mention mental problem....

That "you" is directed to all the players who are bashing AA because it is a subscription based game. this "you" is directed to all players who fits the criteria i mentioned in my post. it is not solely directed to you. I should have elaborated it in my post. But again, don't play the subscription based games or if an f2p game comes with "optional" subscription. you should spend your money on beer and don't even come here to explain why beer is more worthy of your $$ which is over and done in about 2 min while a game that entertains for years is not worthy of mere 15$ a month.

i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2945

8/29/14 2:00:00 AM#68
Originally posted by evilized
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by evilized
Free to play crowd, is it any wonder?

More like the current cesspool of people brooding hate in the gaming community today. This attitude exists regardless of payment model.

 

This too. You will see a larger segment of complainers in a free environment though.

The general chat during the Closed Beta events had more "bro's" than I've ever seen outside of an online shooter...

 

I suspect that AA will suffer from an initial overload of "F2P peeveepee'ers", but hopefully things will settle down some after their attention spans have been exceeded. Shouldn't take more than a month at most... 

 

Getting through that first few weeks will be an exercise in patience and endurance though.

  phumbaba

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 89

8/29/14 3:32:33 AM#69
Originally posted by grimal

I wasn't aware that SWTOR did not allow posts for nonsubscribers;  I look at their forums from time to time but never post there (I will check though now since I have stopped my sub).

Two questions:

1) If F2P MMO  ==  trashy forums....what is the answer?  I haven't looked recently but is this common amongst any other F2P mmos (EQ1, Marvel, APB)?  If so, what do they do?  Limit the forum to sub or an elevated status level?

2) If F2P != trashy forums....why on this one?  Is it really because people are that upset?  Or is it due to a certain crowd being drawn to this title??  If so, what do they do?  If they start a massive wave of post deletions, I'm sure the crowd will flock to other sites complaining of it.  Or do they wipe at launch and limit thereafter?

 

Please do not turn this into a free to play vs sub flame war. 

No, F2p does not always == trashy forums. I would argue the reasons for the situation in AA are quite clear. The game is advertised as sandbox with f2p no tricks, no traps and it's beta. Problems are plenty in contrast to expectations and hype surrounding the game. Frustration, immaturity and total freedom to express your opinion without consequence. Not a good recipe to foster a good community. Completely foreseeable in case of AA.

  AmbrosiaAmor

Elite Member

Joined: 11/24/10
Posts: 842

8/29/14 4:50:10 AM#70
Originally posted by Remains

There's topics other than F2P that are being discussed loudly. Like this for instance:

http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?30017-Cash-Shop-Is-Going-To-Ruin-The-Game-At-This-Rate

 

55 pages and still going. Almost 1200 folks are not happy with the way the cash shop is being handled versus 200 that are O.K. with it. How will XL Games and TRION handle this?

  An4thor

Elite Member

Joined: 4/21/11
Posts: 496

8/29/14 4:59:23 AM#71
Originally posted by AmbrosiaAmor
Originally posted by Remains

There's topics other than F2P that are being discussed loudly. Like this for instance:

http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?30017-Cash-Shop-Is-Going-To-Ruin-The-Game-At-This-Rate

 

55 pages and still going. Almost 1200 folks are not happy with the way the cash shop is being handled versus 200 that are O.K. with it. How will XL Games and TRION handle this?

If they are smart they will make changes.

  kitarad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1301

8/29/14 5:18:19 AM#72
Why maintain a forum for f2p they are not paying so boot them and make sure only subbers can post on the forums or keep it to the founders for now. Why waste time and money policing forums full of freeloaders.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2945

8/29/14 5:51:31 AM#73
Originally posted by AmbrosiaAmor
Originally posted by Remains

There's topics other than F2P that are being discussed loudly. Like this for instance:

http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?30017-Cash-Shop-Is-Going-To-Ruin-The-Game-At-This-Rate

 

55 pages and still going. Almost 1200 folks are not happy with the way the cash shop is being handled versus 200 that are O.K. with it. How will XL Games and TRION handle this?

At best, Trion will pass-on the player sentiment to XLGames, who will in all likelihood largely disregard it.

 

I imagine XLGames are already working on their next MMO for the Korean market. If AA "fails" in NA/EU, I seriously doubt whether XLGames will devote significant resources to developing a "western" version of AA. If they had felt that strongly about it, it would already be done. They'll most likely just move the game away from Trion to a less "picky" publisher and/or shut it down in the west if it becomes really unprofitable.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3900

8/29/14 7:22:51 AM#74
Originally posted by kitarad
Why maintain a forum for f2p they are not paying so boot them and make sure only subbers can post on the forums or keep it to the founders for now. Why waste time and money policing forums full of freeloaders.

I'm not real familiar with this games f2p format, but don't they make money from it? 

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19148

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

8/29/14 7:39:33 AM#75
Originally posted by AmbrosiaAmor
Originally posted by Remains

There's topics other than F2P that are being discussed loudly. Like this for instance:

http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?30017-Cash-Shop-Is-Going-To-Ruin-The-Game-At-This-Rate

 

55 pages and still going. Almost 1200 folks are not happy with the way the cash shop is being handled versus 200 that are O.K. with it. How will XL Games and TRION handle this?


So much QQ about relatively nothing:  This is what they are upset about:

- Sand glasses are what restore your boat when its broken (these will sell for extremely high prices early on and proceed to lose value over time).
- Eco fuel is what used to be called "meteors", but basically provides ~5m speed boost to your boat, which is very useful on the ocean.
- Regrade scrolls basically make it so that you have a very high chance of making your gear better (For high level weapons the difference between green and mythic tier of the same item is almost x2)

They want people to fight in this game, and ocean based combat is a main way to PVP. People won't be as willing to do it if reparing boats is too expensive, so I've no objections to this addition.

Of course, if you are trying to evade the enemy, Eco fuel is very important too, watched my guildmates out run many enemies on a recent trade pack run, until they came across another ship that had it as well.  Again, not a game breaker and good for the combat portion of the game.

Regrade scrolls do suck, I don't like chance based item improvement items in any game, cash shop or otherwise.

For the most part, these changes will prevent alchemists or other crafters from making a fortune selling them in the early game, fine with me, I'm not really crafter, and could care less what crafters want in terms of dominating the economy. 

Someone called crafting the "metagame" of ArcheAge, if so, they need to stamp that out as quickly as possible. Territory control via PVP should be the metagame, and I think 2 of 3 changes above actually support this. Crafting should be designed to support the PVP metagame, not the other way around.

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1559

8/29/14 7:42:59 AM#76
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by fivoroth
Typical "freeloader" comments. These people have jobs and are so busy and can't afford 9 bucks a month. Really? That's like 1-2 pints of beer!

Exactly.  Maybe they feel the beer is the worth price but not the game.  I can think of quite a few games that I would rather spend the money on piss beer than waste it on a sub.  It's all about perceived value and right now even Keystone is more worthy of my money than any sub based MMO. 

So the game is worthy of your time, but not your money?

Got it.

No. You don't "got it".  It's not worthy of my time either.  No where did I say it was.

The discussion was talking about paying subscription fees. If the game is not worth your time or money, what would said game being "F2P" solve? ...or did you just want to complain.

  remyburke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3014

I liked MMOs better when gamers didn't play them, and just geeks did.

8/29/14 7:43:53 AM#77
If you don't have $15 a month to play a game, maybe you should play less and work harder on your career. Just saying.

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  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3900

8/29/14 7:50:41 AM#78
Originally posted by remyburke
If you don't have $15 a month to play a game, maybe you should play less and work harder on your career. Just saying.

Or it could be they work so much that they only have a few hours a week or even a month to play. $15 might be to much to invest in a short amount of time. Not everyone has short work weeks and can spend hours a night putting into a game. :) I have oodles of time to spend on games myself, but if the game isn't worth $15 and there is something better out there, I will invest in that. Also, there are B2P games that are perfect for those with little time for gaming, and when you think about it your time is worth way more than $15.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Jabas

Elite Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 921

8/29/14 7:51:32 AM#79

The lack of respect for those who have diferent opinions and discuss that ends people ofending each other is nothing new.

Hapeneds everywhere wich is really sad.

 

In last months, around this forum, i have see ppl ofending "pvp open world crowd" call them psycos, ofending F2P players like they were some really bad disease, ofending PvE crowd saying its their fault why the current games suck, ofending ppl who suport games with money, those who play asian games, those who like to solo, those who like to raid, etc, etc.

 

Ofensive sentences/posts is like a virus, if mods dont interfear soon enouph, allways get out of control, allways.

 

Its not a easy time for forum mods.

  An4thor

Elite Member

Joined: 4/21/11
Posts: 496

8/29/14 7:57:36 AM#80
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by remyburke
If you don't have $15 a month to play a game, maybe you should play less and work harder on your career. Just saying.

Or it could be they work so much that they only have a few hours a week or even a month to play. $15 might be to much to invest in a short amount of time. Not everyone has short work weeks and can spend hours a night putting into a game. :) I have oodles of time to spend on games myself, but if the game isn't worth $15 and there is something better out there, I will invest in that. Also, there are B2P games that are perfect for those with little time for gaming, and when you think about it your time is worth way more than $15.

That might be totally true and legit; but when a game has been announced as f2p with a sub for almost 5 months now, and people (not new people because i see the same names over and over) still keep on complaining on the fact that the game doesn't offer what they think to be the best model on earth; then perhaps either they are trolling or they want you to snap at them.

It's very simple. No language barrier can't make you understand that AA is f2p with a patron system. You can like it or not; but don't expect people to answer you politely once you repeat 100 times that the model is not what you think it should be.

I stopped answering to these people; but there are still some that do.

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