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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Please Stop With the Genre's Doom and Gloom!

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102 posts found
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20560

8/20/14 5:27:37 PM#21
Originally posted by Peajay123

Shouldn't people be smarter than to fork out their money on a game they might not enjoy or continue playing after a month, with all the options available to them with Youtube, twitch, reviews, friends recommendations, free trials.

If people keep paying without knowing what they are getting then aren't they to blame for the state of the market?

who says they don't know what they are doing? May be they are having fun on games that you do not like.

 

  Badaboom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2401

8/20/14 5:32:02 PM#22
I thinking people are mistaking a decline in the MMORPG population with market oversaturation.  There are a lot more games out there today and they are all competing for players.   
  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

8/20/14 5:34:02 PM#23
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Peajay123

Shouldn't people be smarter than to fork out their money on a game they might not enjoy or continue playing after a month, with all the options available to them with Youtube, twitch, reviews, friends recommendations, free trials.

If people keep paying without knowing what they are getting then aren't they to blame for the state of the market?

who says they don't know what they are doing? May be they are having fun on games that you do not like.

 

I think the assumption people keep making is that everyone expects to play these mmos for years like they did in eq/uo People buy every new mmo because they like playing every new mmo. Only getting a month out of a $60 game isn't a big deal to people who play single player or console games regularly. 

That may not be the traditional attitude towards mmos but when you think of a game like a pokemon and you got to get them all..../shrug.

  Orious

Elite Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 433

8/20/14 5:36:57 PM#24

Instead of putting water to a flame, you've poured gasoline over it by creating this thread :).

 

 

  JDis25

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/27/14
Posts: 429

8/20/14 5:48:20 PM#25
Originally posted by laserit

The world is going to end on December 21st 2012. Now you might think this date has come and gone, but according to my theory they actually mixed up the Mayan translations. The actual date that the World will end is December 12 2021.

 

So enjoy your MMO's as much as you can because in 7 years, 3 months, 22 days, 14 hours, 32 minutes and 25 seconds, They Will Be No More... Muhahaha

Haha funny thing is, I thought of this.... TODAY.

 

No such thing as coincidence, I am dreaming and I will probably wake up in 7 years to a new world where everything is decided by games because all the players know its a dream and nobody can die and wars won't matter and everything you could ever think is instantly manifest!!!

 

  psiic

Elite Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 729

8/20/14 5:55:30 PM#26

Doesn't really matter we all gonna die of Ebola anyway.

 

Doom Doom Gloom

  Joeyjojoshabadu

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/14
Posts: 106

8/20/14 5:56:22 PM#27

No. Absolutely not. You should never try to completely shut down debate, even if you disagree with the opposing point of view (for that's what these threads are - people stating their opinion). If you have a different point of view, then you should provide that as a counter point. You made fair arguments in this thread. You could have simply made the thread about why the genre is healthy, but instead you made it about completely shutting out the opposing viewpoint.

Saying the mods should shut down negative threads is quite worrying.

 

  Archlyte

Elite Member

Joined: 4/21/14
Posts: 398

^Avatar Stylized for Longevity, Frame Rate, & Maturity

8/20/14 6:02:49 PM#28
Originally posted by Quirhid

I proposed a new section dedicated for such threads a while back.

The doom & gloom really does bring the quality of these forums down. Mods should definitely do something about it.

Yes more moderation. MMORPGs are pretty much dead though. Action Free-Roamers are the future. Maybe OP is referring to those by mistake.

  SuperNick

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/07
Posts: 461

8/20/14 6:09:26 PM#29

Most people are on the doomtrain because there really isn't a lot on the horizon when it comes to MMOs now. Wildstar and ESO were supposed to be industry-changing games and both are just as "OK" as any other MMO to hit in the last 3 years.

Looking ahead, we basically have nothing. There's Everquest Next which I doubt will deliver (looks like it will serve as an OK F2P game), there's Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous but really they're very niché games which will attract a small % of the pie.

Beyond that well, I guess there's the indie projects. Things like Shroud of the Avatar, The Repopulation and Camelot Unchained.. but let's be honest, they don't have the money to make their dreams a reality.  These days people want graphics and technology, they want their bells & whistle systems. People want this because ground breaking innovations have now finished and the genre has settled into where it will probably be for a long while. (Same story for the FPS market).

Now I have no doubt there's your staunch supporters of the above games but looking at everything upcoming right now - they all seem like projects which will either fizzle out and/or capture a very small % of the market.

In terms of the the next big MMO? It's a void when you start thinking about it. Maybe Blizzard will deliver another hit but Titan has been so plagued by misdirection I see that project going the way of Duke Nukem Forever.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3469

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

 
OP  8/20/14 6:12:56 PM#30


Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by AlBQuirky
After seeing yet another "MMOs are declining" post, I feel the need to say, "STOP IT!!"

The genre is NOT on the decline. The game quality may not be to your liking, or the direction the genre has gone may not please (it certainly displeases me), but NOT in any way, shape, or form is the genre in any kind of decline.

MORE players are playing MMOs than 14 years ago.
MORE games are available than 14 years ago.
MORE money is coming in every month than ever before.

If this indicates a "decline" to you, you had best go back to school. You missed a class or two on basic business.



What should we post about then if not our opinions?

If someone's post is ridiculous, it will show for that, let them post it.

If someone's post has merit, it will show for that too, let them post it.



Opinions are fine. If an opinion is based on a different criteria than what is being critiqued, then we have problems.

If someone can prove that the genre is decline, and NOT because they personally do not like it anymore (I am one of those players), then that ceases to be an opinion, since common facts disqualify it.

"MMOs suck." is an opinion.
"The MMO genre sucks." is an opinion.
"MMOs are declining." is a lie, no matter the opinion. The person can NOT back up that claim.

What can we post about?
- Good old days: Let's make developers so sick of seeing this, maybe they will create a game just to shut us up?

- New ideas

- Opinions on MMOs and why

- Reviews

- Desires for MMOs not yet released

- Thoughts on MMOs in general or specific titles

We don't need any more "Fortune Tellers" declaring the end of the genre when in FACT, it is thriving more than ever before. It matters NOT if players are "happy" or not. The FACT is the genre is making more money then ever before, even factoring for inflation.

You've seen my posts. I am in the same boat as many other posters here. I despise this genre that I once enjoyed spending time with. The difference is I do not close my eyes to the reality of the situation. The genre is thriving. *I* may not like 99% of the games, but that does not mean the genre is dieing. It means simply, I am no longer the target audience, even though I am willing to spend money, which 60-75% of their target audience have no desire to do.

Opinions are always welcome. Agree or disagree, they are opinions. When they cross over into lies, "The sky is plaid.", they are no longer opinions.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  psiic

Elite Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 729

8/20/14 6:18:04 PM#31

Honestly I am pretty excited about the future of gaming. 

 

We are VERY close to a Matrix kinda brain implant. 

 

We now have some a awesome brain chips on the market. 

 

NSL or Nano Second Language chips are pretty amazing wanna learn a second language just pop in a brain chip with the language loaded and you instantly can read write and speak that language.

 

Google is developing a memory optimization chip that could is basically a search engine for our brains that could as a result cure alzheimers as it makes our memory and data retrieval perfect. ( buying one of these for my wife for all those times she remembers things wrong )

 

US ARMY is currently testing a pile of chips. Everything from performance enhancing chips to telepathy chips.

A few companies out there have upload chips, you know exactly like the matrix. Need to know how to fly a huey helicopter? One sec uploading that skill.

One company has developed a chip that lets you login the internet with your brain. 

 

And of course the chip I find most exciting as a gamer, a virtual battlefield chip that places you in a 100% virtually immersive environment.

 

Guys we are standing in the doorway of the future, and that future is now.

  Archlyte

Elite Member

Joined: 4/21/14
Posts: 398

^Avatar Stylized for Longevity, Frame Rate, & Maturity

8/20/14 6:18:28 PM#32
The definition of MMOs is another reason for expansion. If you can call anything you want an MMORPG then you can concretely say there are more players. I don't need to name dubious examples, you know which games are on the far outskirts of the description.
  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3469

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

 
OP  8/20/14 6:26:08 PM#33


Originally posted by Archlyte

Originally posted by Quirhid
I proposed a new section dedicated for such threads a while back.

The doom & gloom really does bring the quality of these forums down. Mods should definitely do something about it.



Yes more moderation. MMORPGs are pretty much dead though. Action Free-Roamers are the future. Maybe OP is referring to those by mistake.

MMO
Massively: 1000's of players in the same shard. Sounds "Massive" to me.
Mulitplayer: Players can team up, duel each other, gather for raids or dungeons. Sounds like mulitiplayer to me.
Online: Requires an internet connection. Check.

Maybe *you* are confusing this crap we are inundated with now with the old "MMORPGs" we used to have? In that instance, MMORPGs are pretty much dead. MMOs? Not so much.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4814

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

8/20/14 6:28:22 PM#34
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

After seeing yet another "MMOs are declining" post, I feel the need to say, "STOP IT!!"

The genre is NOT on the decline. The game quality may not be to your liking, or the direction the genre has gone may not please (it certainly displeases me), but NOT in any way, shape, or form is the genre in any kind of decline.

MORE players are playing MMOs than 14 years ago.
MORE games are available than 14 years ago.
MORE money is coming in every month than ever before.

If this indicates a "decline" to you, you had best go back to school. You missed a class or two on basic business.

does basic business cover "bubble" ?

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3322

Poacher killer.

8/20/14 6:45:28 PM#35
Originally posted by Archlyte
The definition of MMOs is another reason for expansion. If you can call anything you want an MMORPG then you can concretely say there are more players. I don't need to name dubious examples, you know which games are on the far outskirts of the description.

Good point. But, I think part of the problem is that we now have a group of gamers (who have been easily confused by studios marketing their games as MMOs) that consider "MMO" separate from "MMORPG". When I first started seeing "MMO" being used, it was for the simple reason that it was easier and faster to say "em em oh" versus "em em oh are pee gee". It was consistently used in this manner for years and many still use the shortened version. You can still find threads and old conversations from many sites that verify this.

I look at an MMO that has FPS mechanics as just that; an MMO with FPS mechanics. I do not think it's as challenging as some people are letting on to identify what an MMO(RPG) is composed of; it should not be this difficult.

I do believe that eventually (hopefully sooner than later) the dust will settle, and we will have more clearly defined categories and better classification because let's be honest here, that's how we humans roll. We're just right in the middle of a transitionary period.

 

"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3469

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

 
OP  8/20/14 6:47:03 PM#36


Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by AlBQuirky
After seeing yet another "MMOs are declining" post, I feel the need to say, "STOP IT!!"

The genre is NOT on the decline. The game quality may not be to your liking, or the direction the genre has gone may not please (it certainly displeases me), but NOT in any way, shape, or form is the genre in any kind of decline.
MORE players are playing MMOs than 14 years ago.
MORE games are available than 14 years ago.
MORE money is coming in every month than ever before.

If this indicates a "decline" to you, you had best go back to school. You missed a class or two on basic business.



does basic business cover "bubble" ?

lol Yes. Or at least it did 30 years ago :)

I get your point, but do you think it is close to being a bubble ready to pop yet? It could very well be. I don't know. My crystal ball is in the shop :)

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Archlyte

Elite Member

Joined: 4/21/14
Posts: 398

^Avatar Stylized for Longevity, Frame Rate, & Maturity

8/20/14 7:02:03 PM#37
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Archlyte

Originally posted by Quirhid
I proposed a new section dedicated for such threads a while back.

 

The doom & gloom really does bring the quality of these forums down. Mods should definitely do something about it.



Yes more moderation. MMORPGs are pretty much dead though. Action Free-Roamers are the future. Maybe OP is referring to those by mistake.

MMO
Massively: 1000's of players in the same shard. Sounds "Massive" to me.
Mulitplayer: Players can team up, duel each other, gather for raids or dungeons. Sounds like mulitiplayer to me.
Online: Requires an internet connection. Check.

 

Maybe *you* are confusing this crap we are inundated with now with the old "MMORPGs" we used to have? In that instance, MMORPGs are pretty much dead. MMOs? Not so much.

I think I actually agreed with you in substance but not in detail. You are correct that technically the market has expanded, but I feel that consumers of games that you and I prefer are perceiving a decline or death based on the lack of viable choices. The upcoming games that are closest to MMORPGs are actually Action Games with Free Roam Environments (which require no control adaptation for console controllers). Those are most certainly on the rise. 

 

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1491

8/20/14 7:20:43 PM#38
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

"MMOs suck." is an opinion.
"The MMO genre sucks." is an opinion.
"MMOs are declining." is a lie, no matter the opinion. The person can NOT back up that claim.

MMO is not even really  a thing. Just an unfinished acronym.

 

If people making these threads like MMORPGs though those are pretty much in decline. The market has changed a lot in the last few years and lots of people have been left out in the cold.

 

For you to just say "Quit complaining because there are plenty of multiplayer online games that I still like so I don't see a problem" is pretty selfish (Basically it's every post Nariussledon ever made :) ) .

 

I agree that if someone is claiming to have pseudo scientific evidence that the genre is declining that's kind of dumb but most of these posts just amount to "Why aren't there any of the kind of games I like anymore?" and given that this site is named for MMORPGS it makes sense to find quite a few posts like that here. Don't like it, don't read those threads.

 

 

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

8/20/14 7:22:51 PM#39
Originally posted by Archlyte
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Archlyte

Originally posted by Quirhid
I proposed a new section dedicated for such threads a while back.

 

The doom & gloom really does bring the quality of these forums down. Mods should definitely do something about it.



Yes more moderation. MMORPGs are pretty much dead though. Action Free-Roamers are the future. Maybe OP is referring to those by mistake.

MMO
Massively: 1000's of players in the same shard. Sounds "Massive" to me.
Mulitplayer: Players can team up, duel each other, gather for raids or dungeons. Sounds like mulitiplayer to me.
Online: Requires an internet connection. Check.

 

Maybe *you* are confusing this crap we are inundated with now with the old "MMORPGs" we used to have? In that instance, MMORPGs are pretty much dead. MMOs? Not so much.

I think I actually agreed with you in substance but not in detail. You are correct that technically the market has expanded, but I feel that consumers of games that you and I prefer are perceiving a decline or death based on the lack of viable choices. The upcoming games that are closest to MMORPGs are actually Action Games with Free Roam Environments (which require no control adaptation for console controllers). Those are most certainly on the rise. 

 

Yeah good luck with your name change thing /rolleyes

  User Deleted
8/20/14 7:23:47 PM#40
Has the growth of the genre grown proportionate to the number of households that own computers and have high-speed internet compared to say, 2001-2004? I doubt it. While its true that more people are playing MMO's and the companies are more profitable, I'm not so sure the increase of the genre has increased at the same rate as other factors.
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