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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: We Are Not ‘Entitled’

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94 posts found
  botrytis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2527

8/05/14 9:59:59 AM#61

I totally disagree with this column. Why? Because people HAVE gotten the 'Entitled' attitude more now. Why? Jut look at kids who get A's for just showing up to class and do nothing. It used to be that you earned your grades and moved on. Not so any more.

 

We as a world seem to have gotten more spoilt, more out of touch with each other, more rude also.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Spankster77

Elite Member

Joined: 6/20/14
Posts: 249

8/05/14 10:01:47 AM#62
Originally posted by iridescence

Any MMO has way more than 4 times the content of most single player games. Most  games have some form of static multiplayer where you run around and shoot dudes which is fine if that what you want but it's not really fair to compare that to an MMO. How many single player games can you pour hundreds or thousands of hours into?

 

My rule of thumb with MMOs is if I don't think I'll play and enjoy it for at least 60 hours it's not worth subscribing to but most of the ones I have subbed to in the past have at least delivered that much. While I'm sure some people argue for  cash shops as an actual alternative payment model a lot of people want to just play for free and game quality is suffering as a result.

 

^ this.

  Fingz

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/26/14
Posts: 128

8/05/14 10:22:28 AM#63

I blame the devs for the player sense of entitlement.  Players want something and the devs give in and give it to them.  Nerf the dungeons?  Okay.  Make a mount available even though you didn't earn it?  Sure.

I don't necessarily blame the players for asking.  They aren't the professionals in the equation.

 

  greatskys

Elite Member

Joined: 4/02/14
Posts: 315

8/05/14 10:25:08 AM#64

I got called "entitled" on facebook after I made a post about a friend of mine fell through the world in TESO and got banned as a suspected gold farmer ( she did get her account back after a week ) . Apparently I was "entitled" because I thought she should get her time compensated to her and in this guys view the "free month" was a "privilage" . My view is that "free month" is advertised as 30 days of game time included and is thus not "free" . Needless to say the guy had a weight problem of gargantuan proportions and I wasted no time in suggesting he should not feel entitled to eat as much food as he possibly could .

 

I don't think gamers are anymore entitled now than they were before they are just more aware of what is value for money and are not willing to put up with a load of s**t from gaming companies . Lets face it mmo gamers have taken the standardized 15 dollar a month fee model for far far too long . Why hasn't there been a price war over the subscription fee ? It would have been preferable to buy to play but developers don't think to try dropping the price first . I would pay 7.50 a month for the likes of TESO or Darkfall because I would feel I was getting my monies worth . 

 

To me anyone who uses the term "entitled" to describe another game who probably has time constraints as to how much they can play and who is looking for the best value for money needs to get a life .

  GrumpyMel2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1824

8/05/14 11:59:14 AM#65

I am "entitled" to determine when, where and on what I spend my money and my entertainment time. With very few exceptions, I generaly avoid spending either on any F2P title. That is because, with very few exceptions, I find F2P to have a strong negative effect on my play experience of the game. I have found it leads to poor game design decisions and poor communities in most cases that I have experienced and compromises, what I feel, games should really be about.

F2P advocates and developers are free to disagree and do whatever they like.  They can just do it without me or my dime. I've lived too long to waste my time and money on things that don't deliver the experience I want.... and nobody else is "entitled" to tell me otherwise.

Edit: LOTRO is one of the games that went seriously downhill after they took the F2P plunge. I won't claim to know that F2P is the cause of it but F2P certainly detracted from my play experience. I probably could have tolerated the "Buy Me" buttons everywhere, if they hadn't made the content so easy I could play it while asleep and had made some of it geared toward a group or even a small group instead of solo.

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1171

8/05/14 12:14:57 PM#66

I don't believe I've ever used the term 'entitled' to mean what the author characterizes it as.

To me, the following are examples of an "entitled attitude".

1. 'I have a busy life, a job and a family and I don't have the time I used to to play these games, so it's not fair that others with more time can get farther along than me. I should be able to progress faster so I can catch up with them". That's someone believing their personal life circumstances somehow entitle them to a faster/easier ride than others.

 

People with lives, families, careers and such have always played MMOs, even as far back as UO and EQ1. They had limited time, too. Yet, they played and enjoyed themselves. Why? Because they set their expectations more realistically to the time they had to play. They didn't expect the developers to change the game around to cater to them. They weren't self-entitled. 

 

2. "I just started playing the game a year after it came out. It's not fair that people who've played longer than me are farther along and are doing things I can't do right now. They should speed the game up so I can catch up and do the same content they're doing."  -- That's someone reacting on a perceived "disadvantage" against people who've been playing longer. They feel that starting after everyone else entitles them to a faster/easier ride to the end, simply because they don't feel they should have to go through what everyone else did to get there. They often characterize themselves as a victim of some horribly unfair treatment... and occasionally pre-emptively lash out at anyone who would disagree.

 

3. An entitled person is someone who wants to play a game, clearly has an interest in it, but feels they shouldn't have to pay for it, because "it's not worth the money" to them. They like the game. They want to play the game... they just feel they're entitled and shouldn't have to pay for it. In those cases, they want something for nothing, that's it.

 

There are other examples, but those are 3 common ones.

As for the article, again, I don't know if I would ever characterize what they're discussing as "entitlement". That's imply wanting games to be F2P. 

 

I will also say, their characterization of F2P becoming popular because "it's better for the players!" is horribly naive. It's giving developers and, more specifically, publishers far more credit than they deserve.

 

The F2P model has been around for a long time in the East. It was even present in a few MMOs that were available here in West before Turbine hopped on board and made it "okay" in the West. Certainly, developers and publishers were well aware of this. If it was so clearly the "better" approach, then why did it take them so long to adapt it?

 

I'll tell you why...

 

because F2P/Cash Shops are little more than sanctioned RMT. It's the same concept as eBaying or buying money from some website... activities developers used to actively fight and prohibit. The difference now? They're the ones raking in the money, not some 3rd party. So of course now, they argue it as being the "best thing for the players". Illegal RMT and Cash Shops are basically the same thing; the same concept. The only difference is who's cashing in. Meanwhile, gullible gamers with no critical thinking skills just lap up the PR about it being "a better revenue model for the players!" as "fact".

 

 
 
 
 

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  Fourplay

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/10
Posts: 128

8/05/14 1:37:08 PM#67

The truth is entitlement doesn't exist. It's a belief of wanting to feel special,right, justified, deserving of something whether perceivably earned or not. Everyone is guilty of this belief in one way or another in some area of their life, including video games. There is no exception to the rule, not even mmos.

 

Multitudes have died over this belief. It's a fact. 

 

As far as the state of the mmorpg dying or evolving. Everything is dying moment by moment. Everything is also being birthed moment by moment. What is good or bad is up to the interpretation of each individual.

 

Gamers have expectations, developers have expectations. Many of those expectations aren't being met. What choice does one have when their expectations are not being met?

1.Accept it

2.Change it

3.Remove oneself from the situation

4.Blame other people(This one doesn't solve anything but gives the blamer the illusion of being right.)

 

 

On the issue of payment models or budgets being indicative of quality/value or vice versa. That can be true but isn't always true. As reviews on games and the comment section have argued time and time again regardless of score. One guys pile of gold is another guys pile of poop, and to another guy it might be a pile of gold slightly glazed with poop.

Is it wrong or not nice to put people in boxes? I leave that up to you. But it isn't going away.

 

 

Do gamers feel entitled? You bet a sweet ass they do. And developers feel entitled too.

 

 
 
  Derros

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1009

8/05/14 1:49:12 PM#68

Well, gamers have the privilage of complaining/calling for game changes, until the devs/forum mods say that they dont, and remove their ability to do so.  They never do, so the devs have to live with what they've got.  Of course, if they did, they'd probably get a social media campaign against them.

 

The problem is, the devs, like most other businesses, dont get to choose their customers, they have to adapt to the environment.

  Fourplay

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/10
Posts: 128

8/05/14 2:00:06 PM#69
 
Most devs won't do that because they are trying to maximize profit. They need to practice integrity though regardless of potential profit. There has to be a line that when crossed is, you refuse service.
 
A business can choose the type of customers they wish to attract. As long as the service is top notch and they accept that their business will soar or plummet based on their performance versus the competition.

 

 
  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2528

8/05/14 3:47:17 PM#70

These days games are not realy made anymore for gamers it's made for the bussiness man who have stock in the company that published it.

Games these days are made to make as much money in short time as they can.

Im entitled to say anything about game i maybe wanne play if not i act with my wallet in sense im most powerfull of them all if i don't pay less money.

Sure it make maybe no difference but im almost convinced that if i dont pay many others also don't pay and that hurts the publisher and stockbrokers and the developers.

Im entitled ALWAYS im the one who need to spent time with product im the one who throw money at it.

So im entitled.

Luckly i still got a lot power ay my disposal, do i pay or do i pay not.

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  Deddmeat

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 315

Not sure how I got K.A.E.S last PvP was CoD and UO lol

8/05/14 5:07:50 PM#71


Originally posted by TangentPoint
I don't believe I've ever used the term 'entitled' to mean what the author characterizes it as.

To me, the following are examples of an "entitled attitude".

1. 'I have a busy life, a job and a family and I don't have the time I used to to play these games, so it's not fair that others with more time can get farther along than me. I should be able to progress faster so I can catch up with them". That's someone believing their personal life circumstances somehow entitle them to a faster/easier ride than others.

 

People with lives, families, careers and such have always played MMOs, even as far back as UO and EQ1. They had limited time, too. Yet, they played and enjoyed themselves. Why? Because they set their expectations more realistically to the time they had to play. They didn't expect the developers to change the game around to cater to them. They weren't self-entitled. 

 

2. "I just started playing the game a year after it came out. It's not fair that people who've played longer than me are farther along and are doing things I can't do right now. They should speed the game up so I can catch up and do the same content they're doing."  -- That's someone reacting on a perceived "disadvantage" against people who've been playing longer. They feel that starting after everyone else entitles them to a faster/easier ride to the end, simply because they don't feel they should have to go through what everyone else did to get there. They often characterize themselves as a victim of some horribly unfair treatment... and occasionally pre-emptively lash out at anyone who would disagree.

 

3. An entitled person is someone who wants to play a game, clearly has an interest in it, but feels they shouldn't have to pay for it, because "it's not worth the money" to them. They like the game. They want to play the game... they just feel they're entitled and shouldn't have to pay for it. In those cases, they want something for nothing, that's it.

 

There are other examples, but those are 3 common ones.

As for the article, again, I don't know if I would ever characterize what they're discussing as "entitlement". That's imply wanting games to be F2P. 

 

I will also say, their characterization of F2P becoming popular because "it's better for the players!" is horribly naive. It's giving developers and, more specifically, publishers far more credit than they deserve.

 

The F2P model has been around for a long time in the East. It was even present in a few MMOs that were available here in West before Turbine hopped on board and made it "okay" in the West. Certainly, developers and publishers were well aware of this. If it was so clearly the "better" approach, then why did it take them so long to adapt it?

 

I'll tell you why...

 

because F2P/Cash Shops are little more than sanctioned RMT. It's the same concept as eBaying or buying money from some website... activities developers used to actively fight and prohibit. The difference now? They're the ones raking in the money, not some 3rd party. So of course now, they argue it as being the "best thing for the players". Illegal RMT and Cash Shops are basically the same thing; the same concept. The only difference is who's cashing in. Meanwhile, gullible gamers with no critical thinking skills just lap up the PR about it being "a better revenue model for the players!" as "fact".

         


Best description of entitlement and current problems with mmo's I've read yet

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1267

8/06/14 6:44:08 AM#72

People - not just gamers - are entitled to clear and honest marketing.

The idea that when people pay a sub they are paying for new content is "untruthful".

If a company wants to charge a sub - fine. Charge a sub but make it clear that it is a "green fee". Stop pretending that new content is cheap and they will roll it out on a regular basis whether they get 10M subs or 10k.

 

  strangepowers

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 599

SCAD Animation-Film-F/X

8/06/14 7:31:55 AM#73

LOL yes you are.

The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  strangepowers

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 599

SCAD Animation-Film-F/X

8/06/14 7:33:56 AM#74


Originally posted by gervaise1
People - not just gamers - are entitled to clear and honest marketing.

The idea that when people pay a sub they are paying for new content is "untruthful".

If a company wants to charge a sub - fine. Charge a sub but make it clear that it is a "green fee". Stop pretending that new content is cheap and they will roll it out on a regular basis whether they get 10M subs or 10k.

 


You work as a game developer right? That's how you know this... Oh wait, you don't.

New content takes time, projects take time, and individuals, bill companys, and insurance plans all have to be funded.

You sound like an ENTITLED individual without any real world experience of limited if that.

The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  umcorian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 354

8/06/14 8:12:10 AM#75
Originally posted by TangentPoint

I don't believe I've ever used the term 'entitled' to mean what the author characterizes it as.

To me, the following are examples of an "entitled attitude".

1. 'I have a busy life, a job and a family and I don't have the time I used to to play these games, so it's not fair that others with more time can get farther along than me. I should be able to progress faster so I can catch up with them". That's someone believing their personal life circumstances somehow entitle them to a faster/easier ride than others.

 

People with lives, families, careers and such have always played MMOs, even as far back as UO and EQ1. They had limited time, too. Yet, they played and enjoyed themselves. Why? Because they set their expectations more realistically to the time they had to play. They didn't expect the developers to change the game around to cater to them. They weren't self-entitled. 

 

2. "I just started playing the game a year after it came out. It's not fair that people who've played longer than me are farther along and are doing things I can't do right now. They should speed the game up so I can catch up and do the same content they're doing."  -- That's someone reacting on a perceived "disadvantage" against people who've been playing longer. They feel that starting after everyone else entitles them to a faster/easier ride to the end, simply because they don't feel they should have to go through what everyone else did to get there. They often characterize themselves as a victim of some horribly unfair treatment... and occasionally pre-emptively lash out at anyone who would disagree.

 

3. An entitled person is someone who wants to play a game, clearly has an interest in it, but feels they shouldn't have to pay for it, because "it's not worth the money" to them. They like the game. They want to play the game... they just feel they're entitled and shouldn't have to pay for it. In those cases, they want something for nothing, that's it.

 

There are other examples, but those are 3 common ones.

As for the article, again, I don't know if I would ever characterize what they're discussing as "entitlement". That's imply wanting games to be F2P. 

 

I will also say, their characterization of F2P becoming popular because "it's better for the players!" is horribly naive. It's giving developers and, more specifically, publishers far more credit than they deserve.

 

The F2P model has been around for a long time in the East. It was even present in a few MMOs that were available here in West before Turbine hopped on board and made it "okay" in the West. Certainly, developers and publishers were well aware of this. If it was so clearly the "better" approach, then why did it take them so long to adapt it?

 

I'll tell you why...

 

because F2P/Cash Shops are little more than sanctioned RMT. It's the same concept as eBaying or buying money from some website... activities developers used to actively fight and prohibit. The difference now? They're the ones raking in the money, not some 3rd party. So of course now, they argue it as being the "best thing for the players". Illegal RMT and Cash Shops are basically the same thing; the same concept. The only difference is who's cashing in. Meanwhile, gullible gamers with no critical thinking skills just lap up the PR about it being "a better revenue model for the players!" as "fact".

To be 100% fair - that argument does hold weight in games like EvE that are so innately hardcore PvP, but don't have a character progress cap. Do you really expect gamers to play with one arm tied behind their back for their entire career because they joined 7 years later?

You can also flip that around to make anyone wanting the opposite seem entitled.

"I've been playing this game for 5 years longer than you. I've put in the time. Who cares if I keyboard turn and you're more skilled?  I'm entitled to beat you - play as long as I have if you want to have a chance vs. me."

  huxer

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 11

8/06/14 12:37:20 PM#76
I agree, your entire article just reinforces my opinion that Free to Play players are like Kevin Federline.  They talk too much about what they deserve but never actually do anything to deserve it.  It's okay to be entitled if you buy something, you are rightfully entitled to that thing at that point.  When you do nothing but wait until Dad brings home dinner then complain that you didn't want ketchup or that your brother who went with him got a sundae and you didn't, yea you are acting like an entitled brat.  In my opinion, pure free to play players should have no voice in the game or it's community, if you wan't be involved, put in the work. Money=work, I know this concept is lost on many people but money is a token we use to universally barter. All things in life are bought, sold or processed.  Nothing is free, support the things you like with your money or lose them forever.
  GrumpyMel2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1824

8/06/14 3:24:03 PM#77
Originally posted by strangepowers

 


Originally posted by gervaise1
People - not just gamers - are entitled to clear and honest marketing.

 

The idea that when people pay a sub they are paying for new content is "untruthful".

If a company wants to charge a sub - fine. Charge a sub but make it clear that it is a "green fee". Stop pretending that new content is cheap and they will roll it out on a regular basis whether they get 10M subs or 10k.

 


 

You work as a game developer right? That's how you know this... Oh wait, you don't.

New content takes time, projects take time, and individuals, bill companys, and insurance plans all have to be funded.

You sound like an ENTITLED individual without any real world experience of limited if that.

Actualy, I'm the biggest supporter of subscriptions there is and he's got a point. It's called truth in advertisement. Content takes a heck of alot of time and effort and expense to produce. The problem here isn't so much with the people building the content but with the people marketing these sorts of games and adverstising things that the developers can't possibly deliver. If you run an auto-shop and sell a customer a maintenance agreement and your mechanics can only reasonably deliver 1 tune-up a month, you don't let your marketers run around advertising that the customer will get 3 tune-ups a month with thier agreement. Many game developers/publishers have serious problems with thier marketing that goes beyond hype and frankly into borderline fraud.

If you promise a customer something and can't deliver, then you really don't deserve to be in business in the first place. The solution is simple, don't make promises that you don't have the resources fo fullfill. It's why it's so refreshing to see the occasional Dev, usualy indie's, who actualy engage in straight talk an tell you up front "It'll be ready when it's ready, IF we can get it to work at all." I'd much rather have that then piles of slick marketing hype.

  Sleepyfish

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/25/09
Posts: 362

8/07/14 1:43:49 PM#78
So, what, since the Pokket experiment didn't work out. Is this the new high school student girl gamer expert dating the head moderator again? Wait please tell me she has released some videos of gameplay, that should be a laugh. Who cares what she thinks, shes old enough to spank for gods sakes. I play FTP and PTP games and dont have a complex about it or need to quantify my existence based on a payment model, any more than I compare my manhood to the size of my cable bill.
  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2757

8/07/14 1:50:34 PM#79

We are "entitled" to games worth paying for, or people won't pay/play.

And the same old, shallow, recycled, gear grind game mechanics, MMO players have seen 100x before ain't that.

 

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6732

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

8/07/14 1:54:03 PM#80

There is no such thing as FREE and yes players are entitled to something if a developer promises something they do not deliver.

You can't use misleading moniker's like FREE and misleading cash shops and come off scott free,you can't have your cake and eat it too.

If players are lied to or mislead they will lash back expecting the proper recourse.If players are spending money it becomes a part of real life.A business offers a service ,the customer pays for that service and BOTH sides are suppose to end up happy.Gaming  is the one area where a developer can take your money but scoff at any notion you should be happy.

Well don't make false promises and don't try to mislead people into spending money on your product or service.Yes i understand that is called advertising and marketing but as i said you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Bottom line is both sides have to live up to the bargain,players spend their money,that is cut n dry nothing misleading,where is the developers honest cut n dry side of the deal?

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

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