Trending Games | Pirate101 | ArcheAge | Wasteland 2 | Destiny

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,858,764 Users Online:0
Games:742  Posts:6,243,962
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why do we applaud such weak innovation?

4 Pages « 1 2 3 4 » Search
75 posts found
  PioneerStew

Elite Member

Joined: 9/24/11
Posts: 660

 
OP  7/20/14 12:52:19 PM#21
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Mr.Kujo
Originally posted by PioneerStew

Anyway, my point is that the innovation is insubstantial.  I would argue that it is baby steps, but most other industries do not take baby steps, they stride forward.  I would like to see something truly different.  
 

 

Give an example of other genre, that made huge innovations over the last few years and list those innovations.

 

Innovations are, where innovations are needed.

 

The reason why so many indie developers fail is not because of small funds, but because of trying to make a boat fly.

I have already answered this with Moore's Law if you read the above posts.  

Moore's Law only helps for things that are limited by computational power, not by other things.  Analogous scaling in memory and storage helps with things limited by memory capacity or bandwidth or storage capacity.  But few things in MMORPGs other than graphics were limited by any of those a decade ago.  And graphics in modern games do look a lot better than ten years ago.

If the only barrier to doing something ten years ago was programmer cleverness, that barrier probably hasn't gone away.  Human intelligence doesn't scale with Moore's Law.

I wasn't talking about it in reference to mmo's.  I was talking about an industry that has made strides forward in the last ten years.  If you want others then just look at almost any technological industry.  

Today's CPUs mostly do about the same things as CPUs from ten years ago, but just do it faster and perhaps while using less power.  Or do you regard AVX as something revolutionary and not a straightforward extension of SSE?

We can all throw very specific aconyms around, but it does not an argument win.  Did you have a smart phone capable of half of what todays smartphones can do at £20 a month ten years ago?  The answer is no.  

  Calor-dev

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/19/14
Posts: 35

7/20/14 12:53:41 PM#22
It is hard to innovate. 1. Indy companies can innovate and do things drastically different, but it is hard to catch-on when if your innovations are deep in the game. I´ve played a few indy games that had a lot of cool features, but they never went anywhere because everywhere you looked, they were getting slammed for crappy graphics and stuff like that 2. Big companies can´t drastically innovate a MMORPG because they cost so much money and nobody is going to foot a $300M budget on a gamble. Madden 45 will earn nearly the same as Madden 44. It is just hard for big companies, especially publicly traded ones to make a gamble on something huge. But I do think you are discounting the innovation that goes on within AAA titles as they age. Some of the tech involved with scaling raids and/or forming groups has revolutionized gameplay. When WOW launched, you literally had to stand in your own capital city spamming to find a group to do a 5 man. Now you can queue for raids that scale to you size, join raids with people not even on your server. While you may not like those changes, you can´t say they aren´t innovative.

Lead developer of Holdpoint Online a PvE-only sandbox MMORPG. www.holdpoint-online.com Launching July, 2015

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3806

7/20/14 1:03:08 PM#23

So OP... in an MMO context what would you consider "truly different"?

 

I can't help but look at your cherry-picked list and think that maybe it's just your attitude and mood that're making you ignore the obvious incremental advances in the games you use as your negative examples... 

 

... but I could be wrong. So please give us an example of a feature you would consider "truly different" in an MMO. 

  PioneerStew

Elite Member

Joined: 9/24/11
Posts: 660

 
OP  7/20/14 1:10:36 PM#24
Originally posted by Iselin

So OP... in an MMO context what would you consider "truly different"?

 

I can't help but look at your cherry-picked list and think that maybe it's just your attitude and mood that're making you ignore the obvious incremental advances in the games you use as your negative examples... 

 

... but I could be wrong. So please give us an example of a feature you would consider "truly different" in an MMO. 

In the same way that I cannot design cars, I cannot design mmo's.  

However, I can design buildings and the use of pre-fabricated pods in hotel and flat design allows you to build them vastly more cheaply and quickly, you just truck them in and get rid of all the wet or hot trades on site and most of the specialists.  

Just as I would not expect an mmo developer to build my building, I would not pretend to be a designer of mmos. 

 

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 512

7/20/14 1:20:57 PM#25
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Iselin

So OP... in an MMO context what would you consider "truly different"?

 

I can't help but look at your cherry-picked list and think that maybe it's just your attitude and mood that're making you ignore the obvious incremental advances in the games you use as your negative examples... 

 

... but I could be wrong. So please give us an example of a feature you would consider "truly different" in an MMO. 

In the same way that I cannot design cars, I cannot design mmo's.  

However, I can design buildings and the use of pre-fabricated pods in hotel and flat design allows you to build them vastly more cheaply and quickly, you just truck them in and get rid of all the wet or hot trades on site and most of the specialists.  

Just as I would not expect an mmo developer to build my building, I would not pretend to be a designer of mmos. 

 

Would you consider cheaper and faster an innovation ? Cause in my eyes, hotel rooms haven't changed much in over 30 years.

  Tyvolus4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 169

7/20/14 1:21:21 PM#26
Originally posted by ryvendark

I'm not looking for a game to replace my life or have my wildest fantasy fulfilled. I play a game to have fun. It doesn't have to be a totally unique experience with every new game.

I think a better question would be why do some gamers have totally unrealistic expectations when it comes to mmos. If every mmo "fails" to live up to what you think it could be....do you really think it's them and not you ?

Here is what I would like to see in an MMO:

 

1) open game world, no lobbies, arenas, BG's, instances.  NONE.

2) no limits to who I can guild, party, chat with.  Allow for game design and mechanics to determine how players align, by the players own choosing.

3) difficult, game play.  not over the top hardcore mode crazy, but if I die, make it HURT... just not to the point where I want to quit.  some of us have lives, families or tv shows to watch too.

4) difficult gameplay = PvP.  WELL done, thought out PvP...also allow servers for the carebears.  that way they can STFU and all hold hands and be friends in candyland together.

5) decent PvP and decent PvE all in one game....YES it can be done.  it aint hard.  L2 had decent pve and pvp.

6) themepark elemts are ok, as long as sandpark elements exist as well.

7) piss off with the hand holding. 

  Tyvolus4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 169

7/20/14 1:22:55 PM#27
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Iselin

So OP... in an MMO context what would you consider "truly different"?

 

I can't help but look at your cherry-picked list and think that maybe it's just your attitude and mood that're making you ignore the obvious incremental advances in the games you use as your negative examples... 

 

... but I could be wrong. So please give us an example of a feature you would consider "truly different" in an MMO. 

In the same way that I cannot design cars, I cannot design mmo's.  

However, I can design buildings and the use of pre-fabricated pods in hotel and flat design allows you to build them vastly more cheaply and quickly, you just truck them in and get rid of all the wet or hot trades on site and most of the specialists.  

Just as I would not expect an mmo developer to build my building, I would not pretend to be a designer of mmos. 

 

Would you consider cheaper and faster an innovation ? Cause in my eyes, hotel rooms haven't changed much in over 30 years.

whats the best/nicest hotel you ever stayed at, lol.

  PioneerStew

Elite Member

Joined: 9/24/11
Posts: 660

 
OP  7/20/14 1:28:59 PM#28
Originally posted by Tyvolus4
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Iselin

So OP... in an MMO context what would you consider "truly different"?

 

I can't help but look at your cherry-picked list and think that maybe it's just your attitude and mood that're making you ignore the obvious incremental advances in the games you use as your negative examples... 

 

... but I could be wrong. So please give us an example of a feature you would consider "truly different" in an MMO. 

In the same way that I cannot design cars, I cannot design mmo's.  

However, I can design buildings and the use of pre-fabricated pods in hotel and flat design allows you to build them vastly more cheaply and quickly, you just truck them in and get rid of all the wet or hot trades on site and most of the specialists.  

Just as I would not expect an mmo developer to build my building, I would not pretend to be a designer of mmos. 

 

Would you consider cheaper and faster an innovation ? Cause in my eyes, hotel rooms haven't changed much in over 30 years.

whats the best/nicest hotel you ever stayed at, lol.

A serious answer to the question is this.  If you have a return on a hotel over 25 years of £25m and the hotel costs £23m to build you will never build it.  If it costs £15m to build via newer technology then you will.  

I would not choose to stay in one of these hotels unless I was on business, but this is what they are designed for, a comfortable place to stay while on a business trip.  It is an entirely different customer base to your boutique in the centre of an historic city.   But it is an innovation that allows things to exist that otherwise might not.  

Now, I would put this on a par to most F2P models in mmos, and the monetization system is probably the only real advance we have seen in the mmo industry.  Sad really but a symptom of the corporate world we live in.    

 

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1447

7/20/14 1:33:44 PM#29

Who was applauding Chronicles of Spellborn - I recall it crashing and burning.

I'm shocked you brought up that game.

It did though have plenty of things worth praising.

So let's address one that you didn't give enough credit to.

During the combat your skills changed on a wheel - they weren't static on a bar.

Also during combat it had auto loot - bloop a little window showed what you had open to loot without clicking or finding which mobs are glowing - huge time saver especially when fighting multiples and the loot box stayed open long beyond the fighting range of the creature itself.

Another great thing about the combat was that you didn't just fight a person's health bar, you wanted to increase and decrease their strength or your own by adjusting their stats or yours during combat, that gave the combat depth.

They took stats off gear and made gear purely cosmetic so that you could look how you want and not have to wear best in slot.

Here's a video showing the combat. That IS different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_tbUy1Z5lI

Where is that applauded game, sitting in a Disney vault dead as if it never existed because not enough people even gave it a chance when it had a chance to make money at release so it was bankrupt and sold then went free and was neglected and sold off.

How about we switch games -- Ryzom, another one that ppl rarely touch.

Has harvesting with a mini-game regulating stats to either get better quality or better quantity by tweaking the play in real-time. Harvesting can also blow up and damage you. And the seasons and weather changes the items found.

They also have the most unique skill system EVER - you create your skills with debits and credits, you don't get a fireball skill, you create a skill without a name. It comes from you thinking out what you want out of it - more dmg, may lose some range. More range, may cost you more juice.

Did you have terraforming in games long ago - no, you didn't. Could you affect the world at all - not really unless you count dropping a pre-made structure into an instance as world altering.

Even the act of showing above me - below me in Rift on the minimap I considered innovative but that's too small to make any list because it's going deeper than playing a game for 2 hours so who would notice. Here you are playing a 3d game with a 2d minimap - happens e'reyday of the week.

I think you haven't seen enough games or you aren't giving credit out where it's due in places like all that I remember from COS that you didn't even mention.

Plus, every game I can think of with interesting things keep a woefully low population. Who is applauding things. I see people chasing themeparks and free to play but I don't see them applauding much that is complicated or different. Only the old folks seek out something new and even then the praise can be meh.

You want to give a reason why someone should innovate when at best maybe they'll have 5,000 people who like their change and 10m+ who follow the flavor of the month. If you want innovation you better expect it from the nobodies, the indies because it isn't profitable for a corporation to innovate when a list like you posted can come up poopooing things and overlooking others.

 

 

 

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 512

7/20/14 1:33:53 PM#30
Originally posted by Tyvolus4
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Iselin

So OP... in an MMO context what would you consider "truly different"?

 

I can't help but look at your cherry-picked list and think that maybe it's just your attitude and mood that're making you ignore the obvious incremental advances in the games you use as your negative examples... 

 

... but I could be wrong. So please give us an example of a feature you would consider "truly different" in an MMO. 

In the same way that I cannot design cars, I cannot design mmo's.  

However, I can design buildings and the use of pre-fabricated pods in hotel and flat design allows you to build them vastly more cheaply and quickly, you just truck them in and get rid of all the wet or hot trades on site and most of the specialists.  

Just as I would not expect an mmo developer to build my building, I would not pretend to be a designer of mmos. 

 

Would you consider cheaper and faster an innovation ? Cause in my eyes, hotel rooms haven't changed much in over 30 years.

whats the best/nicest hotel you ever stayed at, lol.

How is that relevent ? 30 years ago they had pretty over the top hotels too. Just saying that the way they are built doesn't always show on the surface. They serve their purpose, but nothing really improved. A bed is still a bed, AC do less noise, the TV are bigger. You still have the same alchool in the bar. You now have WiFi in hotels ..

I'd say it's minor adjustment.

  Darkcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/10
Posts: 773

7/20/14 1:46:00 PM#31
Originally posted by Tyvolus4
Originally posted by ryvendark

I'm not looking for a game to replace my life or have my wildest fantasy fulfilled. I play a game to have fun. It doesn't have to be a totally unique experience with every new game.

I think a better question would be why do some gamers have totally unrealistic expectations when it comes to mmos. If every mmo "fails" to live up to what you think it could be....do you really think it's them and not you ?

Here is what I would like to see in an MMO:

 

1) open game world, no lobbies, arenas, BG's, instances.  NONE.

2) no limits to who I can guild, party, chat with.  Allow for game design and mechanics to determine how players align, by the players own choosing.

3) difficult, game play.  not over the top hardcore mode crazy, but if I die, make it HURT... just not to the point where I want to quit.  some of us have lives, families or tv shows to watch too.

4) difficult gameplay = PvP.  WELL done, thought out PvP...also allow servers for the carebears.  that way they can STFU and all hold hands and be friends in candyland together.

5) decent PvP and decent PvE all in one game....YES it can be done.  it aint hard.  L2 had decent pve and pvp.

6) themepark elemts are ok, as long as sandpark elements exist as well.

7) piss off with the hand holding. 

This has been done before Asheron call 1...  Some indies are close to this.... I'm a gamer who turned Dev because I got tired of some of the games I seen. Now that I see the other side. its not always the devs, but the feed back from players is so bad..

I see stuff from players, you get a ticket, it says your game sucks.. What  is the problem sir... Well it crashes, what is your specs, your game just sucks. Mind you this is during Alpha phase even....

 

I also love the ones, were I get its Alpha but why so many bugs ??? Really you get its Alpha, but expect the game to not have bugs?? If that was the case it would be Open beta or release..

I have seen people on chat , say , tell the devs there is no bugs so they hurry and release, I have seen this many times.. So who's fault is it here???  The devs or the gamers??

I have played games since Atari, games have changed so darn much, its sick..... MMO's same thing, we have so much hand holding, its nearly completes the quest it self..   I personally would like to see older games come back like Asheron call

 

My wife bugs me to make a Modern AC3, something like it, but with better graphics, and better combat, but the same style with no hand holding, the patron , vassels, she loved that...

  PioneerStew

Elite Member

Joined: 9/24/11
Posts: 660

 
OP  7/20/14 1:50:40 PM#32
Originally posted by Darkcrystal
Originally posted by Tyvolus4
Originally posted by ryvendark

I'm not looking for a game to replace my life or have my wildest fantasy fulfilled. I play a game to have fun. It doesn't have to be a totally unique experience with every new game.

I think a better question would be why do some gamers have totally unrealistic expectations when it comes to mmos. If every mmo "fails" to live up to what you think it could be....do you really think it's them and not you ?

Here is what I would like to see in an MMO:

 

1) open game world, no lobbies, arenas, BG's, instances.  NONE.

2) no limits to who I can guild, party, chat with.  Allow for game design and mechanics to determine how players align, by the players own choosing.

3) difficult, game play.  not over the top hardcore mode crazy, but if I die, make it HURT... just not to the point where I want to quit.  some of us have lives, families or tv shows to watch too.

4) difficult gameplay = PvP.  WELL done, thought out PvP...also allow servers for the carebears.  that way they can STFU and all hold hands and be friends in candyland together.

5) decent PvP and decent PvE all in one game....YES it can be done.  it aint hard.  L2 had decent pve and pvp.

6) themepark elemts are ok, as long as sandpark elements exist as well.

7) piss off with the hand holding. 

This has been done before Asheron call 1...  Some indies are close to this.... I'm a gamer who turned Dev because I got tired of some of the games I seen. Now that I see the other side. its not always the devs, but the feed back from players is so bad..

I see stuff from players, you get a ticket, it says your game sucks.. What  is the problem sir... Well it crashes, what is your specs, your game just sucks. Mind you this is during Alpha phase even....

 

I also love the ones, were I get its Alpha but why so many bugs ??? Really you get its Alpha, but expect the game to not have bugs?? If that was the case it would be Open beta or release..

I have seen people on chat , say , tell the devs there is no bugs so they hurry and release, I have seen this many times.. So who's fault is it here???  The devs or the gamers??

I have played games since Atari, games have changed so darn much, its sick..... MMO's same thing, we have so much hand holding, its nearly completes the quest it self..   I personally would like to see older games come back like Asheron call

 

My wife bugs me to make a Modern AC3, something like it, but with better graphics, and better combat, but the same style with no hand holding, the patron , vassels, she loved that...

This was never a problem when alpha/ beta players new they were testing an unfinished product.  But now developers sell access... 

I am not saying that you do, but I think that created the shift in the consumer mindset.

  toksiks

Novice Member

Joined: 8/05/11
Posts: 15

7/20/14 2:12:56 PM#33
Guild Wars 2 actually is one of the most innovating MMOs from the last couple of years. Dynamic events that make the world feel more alive and evolving, downscaling that allows to visit any level area without one hitting everything, Living Story instead of a gear treadmill, NO P2P, World vs World (very few games have this), PvP that could one day become an esport.
  PioneerStew

Elite Member

Joined: 9/24/11
Posts: 660

 
OP  7/20/14 2:16:47 PM#34
Originally posted by toksiks
Guild Wars 2 actually is one of the most innovating MMOs from the last couple of years. Dynamic events that make the world feel more alive and evolving, downscaling that allows to visit any level area without one hitting everything, Living Story instead of a gear treadmill, NO P2P, World vs World (very few games have this), PvP that could one day become an esport.

I would say that GW1 was pretty innovative.  I think that GW2 threw out a lot of that innovation unfortunately.  I know that people will argue that some of the elements you have listed above are innovative, but many of them are derivative or at best a slap of pain over age old mechanics.  

EDIT: 'pain' was a typo for 'paint' but I'm leaving it.  

  naami

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/02/14
Posts: 77

7/20/14 2:39:06 PM#35
Because a game first has to be enjoyable to play. Doing things differently just for the sake of innovation doesn't mean that it will be so. Also imo there is plently of innovation if you care to see it. There is not a single MMO out that doesn't have a unique game system or style of play.
  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

7/20/14 2:49:41 PM#36
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by toksiks
Guild Wars 2 actually is one of the most innovating MMOs from the last couple of years. Dynamic events that make the world feel more alive and evolving, downscaling that allows to visit any level area without one hitting everything, Living Story instead of a gear treadmill, NO P2P, World vs World (very few games have this), PvP that could one day become an esport.

I would say that GW1 was pretty innovative. 

I wouldn't. It wasn't even an MMO really, just a COOP online RPG. Not innovative at all.

 

Originally posted by toksiks
Guild Wars 2 actually is one of the most innovating MMOs from the last couple of years. Dynamic events that make the world feel more alive and evolving, downscaling that allows to visit any level area without one hitting everything, Living Story instead of a gear treadmill, NO P2P, World vs World (very few games have this), PvP that could one day become an esport.

I would partially agree with SOME of this. The dynamic events are where the future of MMOs need to go. The problem is GW2 doesn't put any consequence in its games, and the level scaling makes all the content trivial. It wasn't the first to do level scaling, but its a feature most people hate in RPGs. The living story is, again, useless, because there's no player choice or consequences. It's just a bunch of mini expansions, which isn't innovative. And the WvW was an attempt at a copy of RvR, but failed on numerous levels, from engine to execution. Again not innovative, or even good.

As for PvP esports... no. Not the first.

 

  zwei2

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 337

7/20/14 3:30:34 PM#37
Originally posted by PioneerStew

I will go through the list over the last ten years: -

  • I think that the first mmo with zone events and shared kills was Warhammer. 
  • I believe that WOW introduced dungeon finder and most tools that turn a world into a lobby.  
  • The first mmo to have a deep and immersive story with excessive voice acting and cut scenes was SWTOR.
  • The first game to create a real purpose for skills and truly interesting dungeons was DDO- strangely this positive innovation was ignored in the search for easymodes.   
  • The first mmo to take ! and turn them into heart shaped symbols was GW2.  Clap.... clap.  
  • The first mmo to take an outmoded 80's platformer design and turn it into trivial distractions in an otherwise tedious game was GW2.  Remember this game was applauded for its innovation.....   
  • What was the first mmo with action combat? Probably Chronicles of Spellborn? I mean you had to dodge a static coloured circle.  
Anyway, my point is that the innovation is insubstantial.  I would argue that it is baby steps, but most other industries do not take baby steps, they stride forward.  I would like to see something truly different.  
 
Do you think that the mmo industry has made sufficient innovations over the last decade?  Or should we have seen something truly new and innovative by now? 

Game companies and publishers follow where the monies goes.

 

So, no money no talk. It is sad, indeed. At least there are uprising, out of the norm kickstarters to follow.

The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1471

7/20/14 3:42:19 PM#38
Originally posted by PioneerStew

I will go through the list over the last ten years: -

  • I think that the first mmo with zone events and shared kills was Warhammer. 
  • I believe that WOW introduced dungeon finder and most tools that turn a world into a lobby.  
  • The first mmo to have a deep and immersive story with excessive voice acting and cut scenes was SWTOR.
  • The first game to create a real purpose for skills and truly interesting dungeons was DDO- strangely this positive innovation was ignored in the search for easymodes.   
  • The first mmo to take ! and turn them into heart shaped symbols was GW2.  Clap.... clap.  
  • The first mmo to take an outmoded 80's platformer design and turn it into trivial distractions in an otherwise tedious game was GW2.  Remember this game was applauded for its innovation.....   
  • What was the first mmo with action combat? Probably Chronicles of Spellborn? I mean you had to dodge a static coloured circle.  
Anyway, my point is that the innovation is insubstantial.  I would argue that it is baby steps, but most other industries do not take baby steps, they stride forward.  I would like to see something truly different.  
 
Do you think that the mmo industry has made sufficient innovations over the last decade?  Or should we have seen something truly new and innovative by now? 

Not saying that i am not to dissapointed with the evolvement of MMOs.. but other genres stride forward?

In RTS.. the current RTS Starcraft 2 is more or less the same as the first of that genre Dune 2.

In FPS Call of duty 7(or what ever number they now have) is more or less the same as Call of Duty 1 or Half Life or Wolfenstein.

Well.. other genres don't evolve much either.. it is much more that some new genres, or some games you can not count to any genre come out and are actually innovative.. minecraft come to mind. And create a genre on its own..

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3806

7/20/14 3:48:28 PM#39
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Iselin

So OP... in an MMO context what would you consider "truly different"?

 

I can't help but look at your cherry-picked list and think that maybe it's just your attitude and mood that're making you ignore the obvious incremental advances in the games you use as your negative examples... 

 

... but I could be wrong. So please give us an example of a feature you would consider "truly different" in an MMO. 

In the same way that I cannot design cars, I cannot design mmo's.  

However, I can design buildings and the use of pre-fabricated pods in hotel and flat design allows you to build them vastly more cheaply and quickly, you just truck them in and get rid of all the wet or hot trades on site and most of the specialists.  

Just as I would not expect an mmo developer to build my building, I would not pretend to be a designer of mmos. 

 

Good example actually.

 

You as a building designer have a unique appreciation of innovation in building design whereas the majority of hotel room guests would neither know nor care less about this particular innovation you can appreciate. They'll like or not like their hotel room stay for totally personal and semi-random reasons. And some of those reasons can even be totally dependent on the mood or attitude of the guest. But the bottom line is that it's just a hotel room to them not all that different from any hotel rooms from 10 years ago.

 

So you have no idea what went into designing an MMO in a particular way. You just know that you find, to use one of your examples, the use of voice acting in SWTOR "excessive". To you it's just another MMO not all that different from any MMO from 10 years ago.

  PioneerStew

Elite Member

Joined: 9/24/11
Posts: 660

 
OP  7/20/14 3:57:51 PM#40
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Iselin

So OP... in an MMO context what would you consider "truly different"?

 

I can't help but look at your cherry-picked list and think that maybe it's just your attitude and mood that're making you ignore the obvious incremental advances in the games you use as your negative examples... 

 

... but I could be wrong. So please give us an example of a feature you would consider "truly different" in an MMO. 

In the same way that I cannot design cars, I cannot design mmo's.  

However, I can design buildings and the use of pre-fabricated pods in hotel and flat design allows you to build them vastly more cheaply and quickly, you just truck them in and get rid of all the wet or hot trades on site and most of the specialists.  

Just as I would not expect an mmo developer to build my building, I would not pretend to be a designer of mmos. 

 

Good example actually.

 

You as a building designer have a unique appreciation of innovation in building design whereas the majority of hotel room guests would neither know nor care less about this particular innovation you can appreciate. They'll like or not like their hotel room stay for totally personal and semi-random reasons. And some of those reasons can even be totally dependent on the mood or attitude of the guest. But the bottom line is that it's just a hotel room to them not all that different from any hotel rooms from 10 years ago.

 

So you have no idea what went into designing an MMO in a particular way. You just know that you find, to use one of your examples, the use of voice acting in SWTOR "excessive". To you it's just another MMO not all that different from any MMO from 10 years ago.

The difference being that the raison d'etre for these hotels is to make a return on the initial investment over circa 25 years.  As I said above, they are not boutiques in the centre of some historic city, they are largely for people on business trips.  In order to achieve this the best innovations are those that enable them to be built more quickly and cheaply.  

Surely the point of mmo's is to attract and retain players, and to do that you need to provide a reason for those players not to go to the competition.  It requires an entirely different response.  That is where the innovation in mmo's should be taking us.  

Again, as I said above the only real innovation seems to be in the monetization system.  So yes, games are treated like my example above, in order to get the best return for the least effort and I would argue that is why so many modern mmo's are bleeding players a few months after launch.     

4 Pages « 1 2 3 4 » Search