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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: The Self-Playing MMO Scourge

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49 posts found
  WereLlama

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/12
Posts: 221

7/16/14 12:53:54 PM#21

Disagree.

In many of the MMOs  and RPGs today that I suspect you consider good, are not a lot of players just taking the extra step of looking up the quest/mob/location and manually going from point to point.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that U/I development was finding ways to say 'Yes' as often as possible to whatever the user tries to do.  I would argue, if there are auto-playing games surviving, then there are players asking for this functionality.

Regardless, I do share the hope some developer out there transforms our current mass-clone generation of cash generating games into something fresh.

-WL

  brihtwulf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/08/03
Posts: 866

7/16/14 12:57:40 PM#22

I'm actually surprised to hear this kind of thing coming from MMORPG.  I've felt for a while that they were getting a little soft on the industry and giving just about everything that comes out a "thumbs up".  But I'm happy to see that they (at least Bill) aren't just giving a free pass to every so-called "MMO" project that rears its ugly head these days.

The genre is overdone, and mostly overfilled with filler, clones, and garbage that completely lacks any sort of innovation.  We need better and more interesting games to play, and not just more of the same.  And if more industry media professionals can stand up for players in this subject, maybe we can turn the direction of things around.

  mayito7777

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/08/09
Posts: 476

7/16/14 2:15:00 PM#23

One of the main problems is that the market is over saturated with crappy games. New age now, with players demanding more realistic , social involving type of games.  Maybe a game where you can have a futuristic house, social relations with other people around you without been forced to do stuff together unless you desire and the other persons do as well, like in real life, you do stuff alone and stuff with your partner and stuff with your friends.

Games need to break the WoW mentality and develop as a global social game,  have space action and land action on an even balance, have social activities that help develop the sense of community, etc etc

  PAL-18

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 740

7/16/14 3:00:07 PM#24
Originally posted by brihtwulf

I'm actually surprised to hear this kind of thing coming from MMORPG.  I've felt for a while that they were getting a little soft on the industry and giving just about everything that comes out a "thumbs up".  But I'm happy to see that they (at least Bill) aren't just giving a free pass to every so-called "MMO" project that rears its ugly head these days.

The genre is overdone, and mostly overfilled with filler, clones, and garbage that completely lacks any sort of innovation.  We need better and more interesting games to play, and not just more of the same.  And if more industry media professionals can stand up for players in this subject, maybe we can turn the direction of things around.

Before that this genre needs better and more interesting devs.Epic devs.

Many devs for example  have tried to build new Masters of Orions,no chance.

Can every company build cool MMO,no chance.

 

So hear ne Master Koster,back to work!

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  User Deleted
7/16/14 3:02:20 PM#25


Originally posted by DamonVile
Isnt this just another if I dont like it you can't either post? Dont get me wrong I think all those games suck but how is this any different than when we see someone say gw2 for example sucks and is bad for the genre.

This.

I think Bill is just trying to get a little street cred back by pandering to the cynics out there. Still the false gw2 sales numbers stands without an asterisk added or retraction. This site desperately needs a managing editor.

  Soandsoso

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/08/12
Posts: 552

7/16/14 3:06:56 PM#26
Originally posted by mayito7777

One of the main problems is that the market is over saturated with crappy games. New age now, with players demanding more realistic , social involving type of games.  Maybe a game where you can have a futuristic house, social relations with other people around you without been forced to do stuff together unless you desire and the other persons do as well, like in real life, you do stuff alone and stuff with your partner and stuff with your friends.

Games need to break the WoW mentality and develop as a global social game,  have space action and land action on an even balance, have social activities that help develop the sense of community, etc etc

You had me till you said New age now, with players demanding more realistic , social involving type of games.

Social is one of the things they don't want...must be new to this site.

  mayito7777

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/08/09
Posts: 476

7/16/14 3:16:12 PM#27

And the lack of the social aspect of  games is what  makes the same sad game after game after game after game.

We need to get the multiplayer aspect back into MMORPG and you will never get it with the same stupid game carbon copied and repeated to the End Times.

We need a new type of game that is more social interactive, give the players the ability to develop on their own social aspects of the game. To me creating an open sand box game where you can assume whatever role you please and switch roles without having to re-roll a new character and without been punished for it.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13806

7/16/14 5:15:06 PM#28
Originally posted by Benbrada
I agree with Bill on the quizzical thinking of, "who's playing these?" and how are they seeing enough money that others continue to spring up everyday?

Yeah, I do think that sometimes.  :p

-----

Part of the issue is that it's cheap to make a really bad game that was meant to be a cheap, mediocre game right from the start.  This is especially so now that we have cheap game engines geared toward making it easy for mediocre developers to make mediocre games without needing the full source code.  If it's cheap enough to make a game, it doesn't have to bring in very much revenue to be profitable.

  BillMurphy

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 1806

7/16/14 6:40:03 PM#29
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by DamonVile
Isnt this just another if I dont like it you can't either post? Dont get me wrong I think all those games suck but how is this any different than when we see someone say gw2 for example sucks and is bad for the genre.


This.

 

I think Bill is just trying to get a little street cred back by pandering to the cynics out there. Still the false gw2 sales numbers stands without an asterisk added or retraction. This site desperately needs a managing editor.

Thanks for the friendly reminder. Updated the news post and the MMOFTW video has long had an annotation on its playback. 

  BillMurphy

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 1806

7/16/14 6:46:57 PM#30
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Benbrada
I agree with Bill on the quizzical thinking of, "who's playing these?" and how are they seeing enough money that others continue to spring up everyday?

Yeah, I do think that sometimes.  :p

-----

Part of the issue is that it's cheap to make a really bad game that was meant to be a cheap, mediocre game right from the start.  This is especially so now that we have cheap game engines geared toward making it easy for mediocre developers to make mediocre games without needing the full source code.  If it's cheap enough to make a game, it doesn't have to bring in very much revenue to be profitable.

 

I think what bothers me most about these games is that some poor souls have to make them. They got into the work because they probably wanted to make good, original games... And this is what happens. It's like when you're a kid and want to be a cop, and when you finally become one you realize it's 90% paper work and 10% traffic duty.

I don't want the people out of jobs, but the games need to stop being made this way. Period.

  User Deleted
7/16/14 6:48:59 PM#31


Originally posted by BillMurphy

Originally posted by Foomerang  

Originally posted by DamonVile Isnt this just another if I dont like it you can't either post? Dont get me wrong I think all those games suck but how is this any different than when we see someone say gw2 for example sucks and is bad for the genre.
This.  I think Bill is just trying to get a little street cred back by pandering to the cynics out there. Still the false gw2 sales numbers stands without an asterisk added or retraction. This site desperately needs a managing editor.
Thanks for the friendly reminder. Updated the news post and the MMOFTW video has long had an annotation on its playback. 


Thanks for doing your job.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6122

7/16/14 7:16:57 PM#32
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Benbrada
I agree with Bill on the quizzical thinking of, "who's playing these?" and how are they seeing enough money that others continue to spring up everyday?

Yeah, I do think that sometimes.  :p

-----

Part of the issue is that it's cheap to make a really bad game that was meant to be a cheap, mediocre game right from the start.  This is especially so now that we have cheap game engines geared toward making it easy for mediocre developers to make mediocre games without needing the full source code.  If it's cheap enough to make a game, it doesn't have to bring in very much revenue to be profitable.

 

I think what bothers me most about these games is that some poor souls have to make them. They got into the work because they probably wanted to make good, original games... And this is what happens. It's like when you're a kid and want to be a cop, and when you finally become one you realize it's 90% paper work and 10% traffic duty.

I don't want the people out of jobs, but the games need to stop being made this way. Period.

Why do they need to stop being made? If people play them then why not let them have what they like to play?

Where do you draw the lines? What sort of automation is unacceptable and what is not? Is clicking a link in the quest objective and having it auto-run you to the destination okay or not? Are ports and fast travel locations acceptable? What features absolutely constitute that the game is unacceptable and shouldn't be made?

I ask these questions because it's easy to agree on vagaries, but they don't really accomplish anything. Let's say we all agree, "Games that play themselves are bad." That doesn't change anything specific. What games? What features? Why? To be effective we would need to name games and publishers and stick it to them. Would this and other sites be willing to forego advert revenue to not promote those games and publishers? Gamers only shoulder part of the burden here. The rest of the industry needs to do its part.

Curse you AquaScum!

  LordZeik

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/17/08
Posts: 194

7/16/14 7:23:55 PM#33
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Benbrada
I agree with Bill on the quizzical thinking of, "who's playing these?" and how are they seeing enough money that others continue to spring up everyday?

Yeah, I do think that sometimes.  :p

-----

Part of the issue is that it's cheap to make a really bad game that was meant to be a cheap, mediocre game right from the start.  This is especially so now that we have cheap game engines geared toward making it easy for mediocre developers to make mediocre games without needing the full source code.  If it's cheap enough to make a game, it doesn't have to bring in very much revenue to be profitable.

 

I think what bothers me most about these games is that some poor souls have to make them. They got into the work because they probably wanted to make good, original games... And this is what happens. It's like when you're a kid and want to be a cop, and when you finally become one you realize it's 90% paper work and 10% traffic duty.

I don't want the people out of jobs, but the games need to stop being made this way. Period.

Why do they need to stop being made? If people play them then why not let them have what they like to play?

Where do you draw the lines? What sort of automation is unacceptable and what is not? Is clicking a link in the quest objective and having it auto-run you to the destination okay or not? Are ports and fast travel locations acceptable? What features absolutely constitute that the game is unacceptable and shouldn't be made?

I ask these questions because it's easy to agree on vagaries, but they don't really accomplish anything. Let's say we all agree, "Games that play themselves are bad." That doesn't change anything specific. What games? What features? Why? To be effective we would need to name games and publishers and stick it to them. Would this and other sites be willing to forego advert revenue to not promote those games and publishers? Gamers only shoulder part of the burden here. The rest of the industry needs to do its part.

I cant speak for other web browser based "mmos" but I can certainly say r2 is a heavy p2w company run by former gold seller Jason Pagoda(or whatever his name is) As for letting people play what they want and do it their way. Yeah let's not..... We now got people paying hundreds of dollars for alphas/beta stages of games. That may or may not even be a said alpha or beta.... These kinda eyesores need to be pointed out and turned away from. Now if you enjoy grabbing roses and getting pricked by thorns that is cool. No one can ever take that away from you. However, I wouldn't want the next ten unsuspecting people to bleed for your enjoyment.

  Skuall

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/20/05
Posts: 863

7/17/14 2:33:54 AM#34

i tried 1 just to see....and wtf u dont even play , u just click ok ok ok until u are bored ,the game has autopathing and battles? looks cool but dont choose skills or who to attack the game does all the work for u ...how any1 can find that remotly fun is beyond me

  Jorendo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 238

7/17/14 3:01:26 AM#35

I wonder who those people are that keep spending money on these games. I mean as you said there is a ton of these games out there. Not only mmorpg do you see advertisements of MMO's that will raise your brow, you see them everywhere all over the internet. All those advertisements cost them a lot of money but they wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable. So who are these people that keep playing and paying for these MMO's?

 

About the moba's...that won't be in the next few years. The Moba genre is already overflowing with crappy games. There are already way to many that just copy each other. Like the transformers MOBA, there is no reason why that game should be alive, yet it is. And every developer seems to make a MOBA these day's and why? Will LoL and Dota players leave their game to invest time and money in a new MOBA? I doubt it.

  fearu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/10/10
Posts: 132

7/17/14 3:13:43 AM#36

Yay finally a column on mmorpg.com I agree with. These things need to die, I want less web browser MMO-lite cash grabs on my dedicated MMORPG news website.

 

That said, I'd prefer they pay the bills rather then thinly worded shill articles that we see on here sometimes, e.g. anything on ESO.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5421

7/17/14 6:02:18 AM#37
Indeed, but if any new MMO tries anything different it gets panned. Make sure you have the same template, same easymode or be prepared for 'failed' reviews. The MMOs Bill has mentioned are just the same as mainsteam MMOs but with those design principles taken much further. And as we have witnessed a never ending journey to more easymode and more solo it is only going to keep heading in that direction.
  Akumawraith

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 223

Why is it said that the road to hell is paved with good intentions? Is there a shortage of bad ones?

7/17/14 7:58:06 AM#38

The problem as i see it with these games is this:

 

The MMOs need good story development, graphics, and new and innovative gameplay design, however these things cost money and time that the dipshit publishers either cant afford or refuse to pay.

 

Looking back on the last 15 years of MMOs i have to say that it has come full circle. WoW was released in 2004, and 10 years later Wildstar is released. And during this recycle the lack of creativity has been rampant. no one had really tried to think out side the box.

 

Dont make it too complicated... the players might have epileptic fits...

You dont have to work on the story and make it interesting... most players cant read or dont bother with it....

once we get this game up and make a few bucks off of it... we will follow Koticks prediction and make a version in an app....

 

They sound like horrible sick jokes, but I can damn near guarantee that in board rooms around the world those exact phrases have fallen from the mouths of greedy pin heads.

 

If the players want to see changes in the gaming industry they need to stop pandering to the half assed games that are released and like the 80's slogan..."Just say no", However unlike that failed program the players hold more power over the corporatiuons, they arent a weak willed government but a coalition of millions of players from mutliple platforms. Profits affect the endgame, without the players these thieves and charlatans couldnt operate.

 

Im not for anyone losing a job, however if you arent putting out good product would you expect to keep your job?

 

 

Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT

Playing: WoT and anything else to break the boredom until something better comes out.

Tired of: Linear Quest games, Dailies, and Dumbed down games

Anticipating:Star Citizen,Citadel of Sorcery

  rounner

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/06
Posts: 562

7/17/14 8:15:12 AM#39

Don't play these games, dunno what the rants about but I'd always assumed there were games that kids played that were off my radar.

Who's to say how many is 'too many' anyway?

  kb4blu

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/10/03
Posts: 678

7/17/14 8:26:41 AM#40

You want these games to die, but you take the money from their advertising ??  Seems a bit of double standard there.

 

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