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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What keeps players constantly interested in those Non-Stop RvR gameplay in certain MMOs like GW2's WvW and ESO?

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26 posts found
  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6388

 
OP  7/09/14 7:29:10 AM#1

Some MMOs have a constant, nonstop RvR mode, where players are constantly fighting to Defend or Capture locations and structures.

But in a constant nonstop game mode like this, what keeps players interested, since game modes like that tend to not have any form of "End" aka Winning ( aka My team won!!!)

 

There seems to never be a true Victory, just bunch of many wins here and there on battles that never stop.

 

How do developers keep players interested in that? And what turns players off about that design?

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6444

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

7/09/14 7:38:50 AM#2

Think the answer is rather simple:

There are no fantasy based multiplayer games. Say COD/Battlefield and such but in a fantasy settings, you see games like that are also played for years nonstop.

 

  Scalpless

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1398

7/09/14 7:39:53 AM#3
Many don't play video games to win. Getting some major satisfaction out of winning against a bunch of random people who possibly didn't even try is silly, anyway. The only thing I'd count as "true Victory" in an MMO is winning in some major tournament and the majority never gets to do that.
  MadFrenchie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/02/14
Posts: 624

7/09/14 7:47:40 AM#4

The feeling of playing a part in a siege with a large number of players to take an objective from an opposing large number of players is a feeling unique to MMOs.  Games like Battlefield come close with 64 player matches, but even that doesn't compare to the numbers of players that can battle it out in an MMO.  It's a pillar of the genre.

 

It also has an organic feel.  Capture the Flag and (to a lesser extent I suppose) Domination are forced PvP game modes that totally break from the game world simply to provide players with a fun medium in which to compare skills with other players and hone those skills.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 8060

Logic be damned!

7/09/14 7:59:32 AM#5

Hasn't been the same now that ownership really doesn't mean a thing and it's all about flipping objectives for points.

I remember back in UO I played in an RP guild on Siege Perilous (the Felucca only, "hardcore" shard) and we owned, defended, and lived in the Orc Fort outside of Yew. 

It wasn't even one of the cities/towns eligible for capture in the Factions PvP system, but that fort was OURS and we fought off anyone who would try and take it from us.

I also remember fighting along my underdog-brothers in the Council of Mages, holding back the onslaught of True Brittanian's for an entire weekend and more as they desperately tried to take Moonglow - at least I think it was Moonglow? 

I'm sure DAOC players have similar stories.

 

I've probably been lurking for way, way too long.

  flizzer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1540

7/09/14 8:06:21 AM#6

People who ask this question obviously just don't get it.  I don't play to win; I play to have fun.   I've been playing GW2 almost nonstop since launch, which, hard to believe, is two years now and I still have a blast in World v World.  Often I have no idea who we a re fighting against and don't even look at the score. 

The rumours of GW2's death have been greatly exaggerated.

  Haralin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/22/11
Posts: 110

7/09/14 8:13:48 AM#7

It is not about winning it is about fun and challenge.

 

 

  MyownGod

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/09/09
Posts: 216

7/09/14 8:14:09 AM#8
Originally posted by MMOExposed

Some MMOs have a constant, nonstop RvR mode, where players are constantly fighting to Defend or Capture locations and structures.

But in a constant nonstop game mode like this, what keeps players interested, since game modes like that tend to not have any form of "End" aka Winning ( aka My team won!!!)

 

There seems to never be a true Victory, just bunch of many wins here and there on battles that never stop.

 

How do developers keep players interested in that? And what turns players off about that design?

The true victory is when your realm manage to hold a bigger % of the keeps or such than the opposing realm, until the war is over with that opposing Realm and move on to another realm. GW2 RvR was great imo, but now its soo disorganized. From my perspective, what attracts me about RvR is that you get to fight in a large scale battle, with siege weapons, tearing down walls, shooting people off the wall as an ranger/archer, rushing into the big crowd of enemies as tank, nuking your enemies with your cool looking spells as a caster role. 

Same goes with raiding, why do you raid? when in the end you get all the sets you want, but you kept raiding? You know every inch of the raid map, and every skills the boss will use, what's the point? Same answer, because you like the thrill, the reward, and the feel you get after you defeated that raid, but with RvR its only difference is that you are opposing other player, you may not know what skill/moves he/she will use on you, and the skill/moves you will use to counter is completely based on your reflex and knowledge of that class.

This is MMORPG for you, it is a never ending killing.

 

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! LET THE GALAXY BURN!

We murder, we kill, it is mindless savagery, this universe is mindless - Azariah Kyras

  Arskaaa

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/15/06
Posts: 829

Your chararacter gains experience and levels up, defining a role playing game.

7/09/14 8:20:08 AM#9

pvp is like hamster in weel. pointless.

unless u like act big ego.

  punkindonuts

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 12

7/09/14 8:26:52 AM#10

I remember back in the good old days of WOW and how much fun the all day battles in Alterac Valley used to be, I wasnt there just to grind honour I just wanted a prolonged fight and enjoyed the backwards and forwards of the battle.

I never played DAOC but I did enjoy playing WAR. Back in the early days I had such a blast doing the RVR, I had a lot of fun but the main thing that mattered was realm pride, we would be damned if we were gonna let the destruction beat us and enter our city. Sadly once crossrealming was allowed and people could just switch sides to whichever faction was winning the realm pride disappeared and most of the enjoyment too.

I also used to love the feeling of doom and helplessness as you were trapped inside a keep while the destruction zerg was smashing down the doors, you knew there was no way you were going to win this but you were going to go down fighting.

Sadly GW2 and ESO just havent captured that same feeling as playing WAR and from what i've heard DAOC.

 

  Cramit845

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/20/14
Posts: 342

7/09/14 8:27:13 AM#11

I always loved DAoC RVR, however I would agree that GW2 RVR is absolutely terrible.  I know when I played DAoC, the RVR was all about controlling your servers RVR area's.  Now in GW2, I would think this would be the same, especially since the servers your fighting change over time. (If I recall correctly)

 

Full disclosure, I was able to play GW2 for about a week, then I had to drop the game, I didn't find it fun at all.  With that said, the RVR there never really captured me at all.  It was zerg vs zerg not RVR.  Not to mention, small group RVR seemed non-existant, I would think cause you would just get zerged and whats the point of that.

I will say, I like the commander system that GW2 installed, that's very cool, but I will say that GW2, at least for me, didn't capture me, even though with my DAoC experience, I thought it would.

 

ESO I can't speak too cause I never played it.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4882

7/09/14 8:34:30 AM#12
It's fun! People like the competitive nature of attacking each other instead of AI mobs.  Nothing to in depth to it.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  MadFrenchie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/02/14
Posts: 624

7/09/14 9:48:25 AM#13
Originally posted by Cramit845

I always loved DAoC RVR, however I would agree that GW2 RVR is absolutely terrible.  I know when I played DAoC, the RVR was all about controlling your servers RVR area's.  Now in GW2, I would think this would be the same, especially since the servers your fighting change over time. (If I recall correctly)

 

Full disclosure, I was able to play GW2 for about a week, then I had to drop the game, I didn't find it fun at all.  With that said, the RVR there never really captured me at all.  It was zerg vs zerg not RVR.  Not to mention, small group RVR seemed non-existant, I would think cause you would just get zerged and whats the point of that.

I will say, I like the commander system that GW2 installed, that's very cool, but I will say that GW2, at least for me, didn't capture me, even though with my DAoC experience, I thought it would.

 

ESO I can't speak too cause I never played it.

DAoC RvR had far-reaching consequences for your realm.  That, I think, is what added such a fun factor to it that newer MMOs aren't using.  Darkness Falls wasn't open to your faction unless you owned a majority in the frontiers (generally), and there were mobs and drops in Darkness Falls you couldn't find anywhere else in the game.

 

Even players whose primary goal was to PvP would participate in RvR to help secure keeps for entrance into DF.  And once you were in, you could stay in until another realm took more keeps and you left (by either zoning out or being killed and releasing).  For brief periods, DF became a PvE and PvP zone, with level 50 characters trying to hold out for as long as they could after another realm took the dungeon.  I remember hearing in guild chat while leveling in DF that Midgard had taken the dungeon...  And the increase in adrenaline knowing, at any moment, a Shadowblade might jump out on me while I was battling a mob.  Or maybe I'd run around the corner to find a small battle between my realm and a group of Midgardians to which I could jump in to help.  It was the expectedly unexpected here that made it so fun.  You knew Midgard was going to flood the dungeon to empty us out, you just didn't know where or when.  Or if you would survive it.

  Viper482

Elite Member

Joined: 11/04/10
Posts: 904

7/09/14 9:50:30 AM#14

I don't know how they can stand to keep riding the treadmill of these games, but I played Daoc for years and it was done in a way that made you want to fight for your realm. It was all about community and realm pride, us vs. them. 

The biggest difference is these so called rvr games today have this league type crap with seasons which blow imo. Daoc was a persistent war, not some weekly sports match. The other side(s) "won" when they took your relics from you, and you were hating life until you got them back, and dammit that is all you thought about until marching into the lands of the enemy to get them back. It was epic on so many levels people who never played will never understand.

  Alumicard

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/01/10
Posts: 252

7/09/14 10:00:06 AM#15
Originally posted by BadSpock

that fort was OURS and we fought off anyone who would try and take it from us.


 

This^

It is a matter of pride I guess. How dare those darn enemys to take OUR keep?

But in DAoC you had Relics (realm(rvr), guild(pvp server wide dmg bonus) which were stored in a keep and we kind of wanted to have them all..all the time. So no matter what, 1 attacker, a group or 100 attackers we defended that thing until they gave up. It often took a long time but it felt good to go to bed victorious, getting up 2 hours later kind of didn't.

  bcbully

Tipster

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 8332

7/09/14 10:01:25 AM#16

GW2 did not keep me interested. I thought it was cheap replacement for world PvP.

 

ESO has kept me interested for a few reasons, Cyrodiil, combat and the skill system. 

 

Cyrodiil makes me think it was the original game world, and zenimax tacked on some pve zones. 

http://www.twitch.tv/sunshineNB
J.O.B. Daggerfalls BEST Gank Crew

  Karaethon

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 33

7/09/14 10:19:39 AM#17
I guess the same could be asked for what keeps players interested in PvE.  I think one of the biggest issues with MMOs right now is the end game concept.  There should not be a linear time line with a start, middle, and end, which is why the "sandbox" type games are so interesting to some.  I have always been a fan of RP and PvP, and for me there cannot be true RP without open PvP.  I also feel that the problem with RvR is lack of meaningful goals.  Shadowbane is a good example, you could build a city, control hunting lands, resources etc.  This gave players larger goals to work towards other than just running a dungeon over and over to get the Mystical Codpiece of Ruin.
  Kiljaedenas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 468

To err is human, but to really f*ck things up you need a computer.

7/09/14 12:13:49 PM#18
Originally posted by MMOExposed

Some MMOs have a constant, nonstop RvR mode, where players are constantly fighting to Defend or Capture locations and structures.

But in a constant nonstop game mode like this, what keeps players interested, since game modes like that tend to not have any form of "End" aka Winning ( aka My team won!!!)

 

There seems to never be a true Victory, just bunch of many wins here and there on battles that never stop.

 

How do developers keep players interested in that? And what turns players off about that design?

You could probably compare that idea to why people play things like Counterstrike, Battlefield, League of Legends...there were a few key reasons why I personally would get into stuff like that.

1) It's fun to compete and win against thinking human opponents, AI controlled NPCs are still painfully dumb at times with current technology

2) It's fun to have a randomized set of opponents and teammates to play with, adapting to their different tactics and skill levels

3) BIGGEST REASON: It's fast. Games/activities like this are very quick to get into, very quick to get out of and don't take up much time to do. So for someone with a rather busy real life who doesn't have very long extended periods of free time, but does have short bursts of time scattered all over the place during the day, stuff like this is among their best options for relaxing and having some fun before they get back to the RL grind.

Where's the any key?

  Cramit845

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/20/14
Posts: 342

7/09/14 12:22:19 PM#19

Originally posted by MadFrenchie


Originally posted by Cramit845

I always loved DAoC RVR, however I would agree that GW2 RVR is absolutely terrible.  I know when I played DAoC, the RVR was all about controlling your servers RVR area's.  Now in GW2, I would think this would be the same, especially since the servers your fighting change over time. (If I recall correctly)

 

Full disclosure, I was able to play GW2 for about a week, then I had to drop the game, I didn't find it fun at all.  With that said, the RVR there never really captured me at all.  It was zerg vs zerg not RVR.  Not to mention, small group RVR seemed non-existant, I would think cause you would just get zerged and whats the point of that.

I will say, I like the commander system that GW2 installed, that's very cool, but I will say that GW2, at least for me, didn't capture me, even though with my DAoC experience, I thought it would.

 

ESO I can't speak too cause I never played it.

DAoC RvR had far-reaching consequences for your realm.  That, I think, is what added such a fun factor to it that newer MMOs aren't using.  Darkness Falls wasn't open to your faction unless you owned a majority in the frontiers (generally), and there were mobs and drops in Darkness Falls you couldn't find anywhere else in the game.

 

Even players whose primary goal was to PvP would participate in RvR to help secure keeps for entrance into DF.  And once you were in, you could stay in until another realm took more keeps and you left (by either zoning out or being killed and releasing).  For brief periods, DF became a PvE and PvP zone, with level 50 characters trying to hold out for as long as they could after another realm took the dungeon.  I remember hearing in guild chat while leveling in DF that Midgard had taken the dungeon...  And the increase in adrenaline knowing, at any moment, a Shadowblade might jump out on me while I was battling a mob.  Or maybe I'd run around the corner to find a small battle between my realm and a group of Midgardians to which I could jump in to help.  It was the expectedly unexpected here that made it so fun.  You knew Midgard was going to flood the dungeon to empty us out, you just didn't know where or when.  Or if you would survive it.


Originally posted by Viper482


I don't know how they can stand to keep riding the treadmill of these games, but I played Daoc for years and it was done in a way that made you want to fight for your realm. It was all about community and realm pride, us vs. them. 

The biggest difference is these so called rvr games today have this league type crap with seasons which blow imo. Daoc was a persistent war, not some weekly sports match. The other side(s) "won" when they took your relics from you, and you were hating life until you got them back, and dammit that is all you thought about until marching into the lands of the enemy to get them back. It was epic on so many levels people who never played will never understand.


Both of these right here.  Great explinations that I just couldn't put together.  The pvp was epic and I completely forgot about DF.  Hell I remember taking a group and pvping in there for the fun of it.  Sometimes knowing we are going to lose DF and zone in just to PVP their peeps after they took it.

Good Times.

 

The argument that some people don't have enough time to play is an argument that I can't stand.  If you don't have 5+ hours a week to play, go find a single player game, not a MMO.  Single player games are made for that quick burst of time and than a return to RL.  I hate that the market goes to the people that have less time rather than the people who will give it more time, just doesn't make sense to me.

  xXStarstruckXx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/14
Posts: 24

7/09/14 12:32:16 PM#20

gw2 was epic for a while all these small structured battles.

 

joined gw2 with a group of friends(55 players) and well we started WvW(RvR) hardcore pvp gaming it was epic between November until May. in every map there was always guild groups or structured raid.

 

these days gw2 looks like shit when all good guilds have left and commanders..... only 1-2 servers in NA still got structured raids or good guilds.

 

my suggestion if you wanna see how a normal gw2 fight look these days in tier 1.

 

----> youtube ----> handara there and back to desolation.

 

it's a tier 1 fight between sfr and deso, funny is that they call for commands but pretty much nobody listen, they try to stick on the commander and press 1. funny way to spend your hours in the house<3

 

eso is a great game sure most of the stuffs was a total copy and the ideas got from gw2 but they balanced it out, currently running with 33 guys around in eso and having an epic time killing zone blobs, in eso there is way better skills to balance out the pug vs guild group battles and way more things to do.<3

 

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