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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » I wish for EQ3, instead of EQ Next, I don't like any of it ( Poll )

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206 posts found
  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 4496

7/08/14 5:14:47 PM#121
Originally posted by Trudge34
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Dihoru
You guys keep coming back up to the top demanding EQ 3.0 when EQ 1 spawned WoW. Enough of the theme parks, anything is better than color between the lines or get bent over a rock and violated by trolls games. You do not like the way this game is going? Tough we had 10 years of EQ and WoW knock-offs with barely anything else, time for something new not milk the nostalgic fans game nr 3747658384.

Spot on.  How many WoW/EQ clones do we need before they realize that we want EQN, not another rehash of the same-old game.

If there were as many EQ clones out there as everyone seems to claim I wouldn't still be looking for an MMO to play.

You look lost, can I help you find your way to the right forum area? Just click HERE

  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1116

7/08/14 11:50:58 PM#122
Originally posted by Trudge34
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Dihoru
You guys keep coming back up to the top demanding EQ 3.0 when EQ 1 spawned WoW. Enough of the theme parks, anything is better than color between the lines or get bent over a rock and violated by trolls games. You do not like the way this game is going? Tough we had 10 years of EQ and WoW knock-offs with barely anything else, time for something new not milk the nostalgic fans game nr 3747658384.

Spot on.  How many WoW/EQ clones do we need before they realize that we want EQN, not another rehash of the same-old game.

If there were as many EQ clones out there as everyone seems to claim I wouldn't still be looking for an MMO to play.

Most of the major MMORPGs that have launched over the past 15 years have been near carbon copies of EQ, with a small twist or added gimmick.

Does any of this sound familiar?

-Create a character that is of a "class", which fits into 1 of 3 or 4 "roles".

-Level up through a vertical progression system that trivializes old content.

-Do this by either killing monsters, completing "quests" or a combination of the two.

-Obtain gear that increases your stats in a vertical manner.

-Once you've climbed the vertical level ladder, kill "raid" mobs, with large groups of other players to obtain better gear to further increase your vertical progression.

-Once you have the best gear and max level, wait until the next expansion releases that has more levels and gear to obtain.  Kill time by PvPing, role playing, farting around, making alts, etc.

This is the EQ model.  If you've played more than 1 or 2 MMOs over the past 15 years, these core features should sound extremely familiar as this basic elements make up that vast majority of MMORPGs on the market.

As a day one 1999 veteran of EQ myself, I understand why you're confused.  EQ is special for many of us because it was one of our first MMOs.  It was new, exciting, challenging.  But even though I can list out everything that made up EQ, and can point to a ton of other games that are "new" but hold to the same formula... it's not the same.  We've been there and done that, so they fail to capture that sense of wonder and excitement EQ gave us.  So nothing trying to be EQ, even if it's everything EQ was and more, is not good enough.

The fact that you don't think there are any EQ clones out there points to two possibilities.

1.  You don't branch out and play many MMORPGs.

2.  You actually don't want a "New EQ".  You want to time travel and replay "Your first MMO" before you got bored of it and went looking around for a new game to recapture the nostalgia that you feel for EQ.

There are lots of games that have done what EQ did and then some, but you're still not happy.  This is why people like you need EQN.  Something new and different to recapture that "fresh feeling".  It's clear that more EQ clones will not satisfy you.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 1385

7/09/14 12:01:06 AM#123

While I don't wish to relive the past, I sure would love to have the free time I had back then. No way I could play early EQ with my schedule today. I could be a casual player just hanging out, but to really play took a crazy amount of time and dedication needing to camp, raid, grind, corpse run, etc just doesn't fit anymore for me.

I remember setting alarms for 4am to get up to check a spawn. I was in my late teens/early twenties when I played EQ and early mmos, college and eventually work took over. Even now that I'm settled, still couldn't see myself doing 30+ hours a week for vertical rewards that are made pointless every expansion or update.

While I don't like how many mmorpgs have become basically lobby games, I do see the appeal. Even more so of how MOBAs and FPS games have exploded and cast a long shadow over the mmorpg genre in popularity.

For those of you longing for and that have the time for EQ 3, feel free to mail me some free time =)

  Trudge34

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 391

7/09/14 10:21:29 AM#124
Originally posted by Gallus85
 

As a day one 1999 veteran of EQ myself, I understand why you're confused.  EQ is special for many of us because it was one of our first MMOs.  It was new, exciting, challenging.  But even though I can list out everything that made up EQ, and can point to a ton of other games that are "new" but hold to the same formula... it's not the same.  We've been there and done that, so they fail to capture that sense of wonder and excitement EQ gave us.  So nothing trying to be EQ, even if it's everything EQ was and more, is not good enough.

The fact that you don't think there are any EQ clones out there points to two possibilities.

1.  You don't branch out and play many MMORPGs.

Looking at my sig, it's pretty obvious this one isn't true.

2.  You actually don't want a "New EQ".  You want to time travel and replay "Your first MMO" before you got bored of it and went looking around for a new game to recapture the nostalgia that you feel for EQ.

No, I would really like a "New EQ." There's a reason I try out many of the newer MMOs, find them lacking because it's just the same hub to hub gameplay that's been in existence since WoW, and go back to my custom servers I've played since I quit the real EQ.

There are lots of games that have done what EQ did and then some, but you're still not happy.  This is why people like you need EQN.  Something new and different to recapture that "fresh feeling".  It's clear that more EQ clones will not satisfy you.

While the core class, progression 1-x, raid is similar I don't think any game I've tried did it in the style of EQ. There's a core gameplay style that just isn't the same. Hub to hub, questing to level up solo play style that has been basically the core gameplay element has to go. I'm open to new things and really looking forward to more EQN news, but a polished up EQ I'd welcome with open arms as well. I still get that feeling of adventure I don't get from other games while playing EQ I don't get from other games, so it's not just nostalgia fueling it.

I won't even comment on Nan's post. 

Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
Currently Playing: GW2

Nytlok Sylas
80 Sylvari Ranger

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 2065

7/09/14 10:44:21 AM#125
Originally posted by zanfire

Im kind of on both sides in a way. I would much rather something more old school with some more recent updates (i was big on EQOA and FFXI...nothing has kept me for even a fraction of time as those). Of course some of the things they suggest still sound amusing enough for me to at least give it a try, so i will, but chances are i will tire of it fast (if it ends up too damn casual/ for the masses as most games have been recently.

Nowadays i just hope for MMOs these days will just keep some of the old stuff i liked and try to get over the overdone "me too" designs. I still find it funny that pretty much every MM) trys so hard to "be for the masses" yet almost every single one since WoW blew up has either shut down or went F2P and scraping by 6-12 months later. If i was making an MMO i would point that out and build a game that would appeal to the niche and craft my budget around that fact, instead of blowing 100s of millions on the same thing as everyone else with some tweaks.

Maybe the real issue is that the developers haven't learned what the masses really want any more than those who poll it on this website.  I see a lot of lambasting aimed at casual gamers, yet most casual games are hardly that in the eyes of casual gamers as they are subjected to many types of content and mechanics that are far from casual friendly, whether it's raiding with little or no alternative at end game or forced pvp in a pve game or having to deal with stupidly low drop rates for quest items or competition for quest related npc's and items.  Let alone the recent departure from roleplaying and focusing too much on combat and action combat at that, with few if any systems beyond the hack and slash formula (something I consider to be very casual unfriendly).

Personally, I think so many gamers and developers are so hung up on time limited gaming that they forget that it's completely different from playing casually.  So now we have all this misdirected development toward an audience that doesn't exist and they end up alienating both casuals and hardcores and many of the in betweens.  The trend toward console style gaming doesn't help either.  Piss poor quality can also be a factor, but something tells me that many times that is mistakenly labeled due to incorrect audience selection.

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 1241

7/09/14 10:46:17 AM#126
I want EQ 3. About EQ:N ... well, every bit they reveal makes me less interested in it.
  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 626

7/09/14 10:47:16 AM#127
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Trudge34
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Dihoru
You guys keep coming back up to the top demanding EQ 3.0 when EQ 1 spawned WoW. Enough of the theme parks, anything is better than color between the lines or get bent over a rock and violated by trolls games. You do not like the way this game is going? Tough we had 10 years of EQ and WoW knock-offs with barely anything else, time for something new not milk the nostalgic fans game nr 3747658384.

Spot on.  How many WoW/EQ clones do we need before they realize that we want EQN, not another rehash of the same-old game.

If there were as many EQ clones out there as everyone seems to claim I wouldn't still be looking for an MMO to play.

Most of the major MMORPGs that have launched over the past 15 years have been near carbon copies of EQ, with a small twist or added gimmick.

Does any of this sound familiar?

-Create a character that is of a "class", which fits into 1 of 3 or 4 "roles".

-Level up through a vertical progression system that trivializes old content.

-Do this by either killing monsters, completing "quests" or a combination of the two.

-Obtain gear that increases your stats in a vertical manner.

-Once you've climbed the vertical level ladder, kill "raid" mobs, with large groups of other players to obtain better gear to further increase your vertical progression.

-Once you have the best gear and max level, wait until the next expansion releases that has more levels and gear to obtain.  Kill time by PvPing, role playing, farting around, making alts, etc.

This is the EQ model.  If you've played more than 1 or 2 MMOs over the past 15 years, these core features should sound extremely familiar as this basic elements make up that vast majority of MMORPGs on the market.

As a day one 1999 veteran of EQ myself, I understand why you're confused.  EQ is special for many of us because it was one of our first MMOs.  It was new, exciting, challenging.  But even though I can list out everything that made up EQ, and can point to a ton of other games that are "new" but hold to the same formula... it's not the same.  We've been there and done that, so they fail to capture that sense of wonder and excitement EQ gave us.  So nothing trying to be EQ, even if it's everything EQ was and more, is not good enough.

The fact that you don't think there are any EQ clones out there points to two possibilities.

1.  You don't branch out and play many MMORPGs.

2.  You actually don't want a "New EQ".  You want to time travel and replay "Your first MMO" before you got bored of it and went looking around for a new game to recapture the nostalgia that you feel for EQ.

There are lots of games that have done what EQ did and then some, but you're still not happy.  This is why people like you need EQN.  Something new and different to recapture that "fresh feeling".  It's clear that more EQ clones will not satisfy you.

While those points are certainly in most mmo released since then, they are not what made EQ special to me and others I know. EQ wasn't my first, I played meridian and UO for years before playing EQ. Yet EQ is still the game I enjoyed the most.

EQ had more than the basic trinity most clones gave us. You had tank, healer, buffer, debuffer, puller, dps and crowd control. You could have combination of those, making many setup work. The following games trivialized it down to 3 roles.

While you are right that EQ was vertical progression, there was multiple ladder to get there. Many location with the same level content you could go to. How many starting location did any game post EQ had ?

EQ had races that mattered, important stats and also different reputation with other races. The world was huge and dangerous, I hate leashed mobs that run slower than you. Today's game are way easier than vanilla EQ.

The slower combat, with finite ressources. Ressources management was important to optimize your actions. You could not just round up every mobs, kill em in 5 sec, rinse and repeat every minutes. You had to meditate between fights, which probably helped make the game a better socializing game.

Corpse run could become and adventure by itself. Minotaur cave in steamfont, my first couple days of playing the game. You could get mezed and pulled deep in there, nothing you could do about it. Real challenge. There are a lot more small things that made EQ better, I won't go deeper in it as it's been discussed many time.

If going back to the game now, with the knowledge I have would certainly make the game easier, but never as easy as all the crap we have been fed in the last 12 years.

While you are right that EQ is the father of the themepark games, none succeeded in cloning what really made it a great game to me and probably many others.

  Knytta

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/03/07
Posts: 340

7/09/14 11:22:43 AM#128
Originally posted by Vorthanion
 

Maybe the real issue is that the developers haven't learned what the masses really want any more than those who poll it on this website.  I see a lot of lambasting aimed at casual gamers, yet most casual games are hardly that in the eyes of casual gamers as they are subjected to many types of content and mechanics that are far from casual friendly, whether it's raiding with little or no alternative at end game or forced pvp in a pve game or having to deal with stupidly low drop rates for quest items or competition for quest related npc's and items.  Let alone the recent departure from roleplaying and focusing too much on combat and action combat at that, with few if any systems beyond the hack and slash formula (something I consider to be very casual unfriendly).

This is one of the best posts in the history of this website, I agree 100%

I played a Shaman in EQ from late 1999 and it was not always that fun when you did not get a group or you had a job so you could not do a hard dungeon with a significant risk for a long corpse run late on a weekday evening. EQ was fun but it would have lasted longer  if they had removed some of the most hardcore elements earlier.

Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.

He who can describe the flame does not burn.

Petrarca

  kresa3333

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/14
Posts: 65

7/09/14 11:24:24 AM#129
 Dont be so negetive its not EQ3 but it still got ( at least on paper ) many nice features and its trying to make something new compared to must of the others that keep flowding us with the same boring formula over and over again

even if it will have partial success its a good thing not only for EQ but for the mmo industry as a whole 

  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 1385

7/09/14 7:29:23 PM#130
After reading all the Pro-EQ3 posts, I'm confused as to what some of you even want when you say "EQ3". Several describe something more along the lines of UO/SWG, which EQN seems to be going for as well (devs have even said this). I'm assuming a decent chunk of those anti-EQN haven't really looked into the game and have fixated on the graphics or flip animations or whatever random aspect and aren't looking at the big picture. Hopefully after SOE Live next month, some of you will have a better picture of what's to come. I'd love to hear what some of you really want from "EQ3" though.
  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1116

7/10/14 2:10:13 PM#131
Originally posted by Azoth

While those points are certainly in most mmo released since then, they are not what made EQ special to me and others I know. EQ wasn't my first, I played meridian and UO for years before playing EQ. Yet EQ is still the game I enjoyed the most.

Cool, I played LoK and UO before stepping into EQ 1999 day one of launch.

EQ had more than the basic trinity most clones gave us. You had tank, healer, buffer, debuffer, puller, dps and crowd control. You could have combination of those, making many setup work. The following games trivialized it down to 3 roles.

Many games have most or all those rolls incorporated into their class design similar to EQ.  Again you're making a blanket statement that seems to stem from a lack of experience with MMORPGs.

While you are right that EQ was vertical progression, there was multiple ladder to get there. Many location with the same level content you could go to. How many starting location did any game post EQ had ?

A ton of games have multiple places to start off and level in just like EQ did.  FFXIV, Vanguard, GW2, etc etc.

EQ had races that mattered, important stats and also different reputation with other races. The world was huge and dangerous, I hate leashed mobs that run slower than you. Today's game are way easier than vanilla EQ.

Many games have a huge amount of races that matter for your character.  Some don't, but many do.  Easier is also subjective.  There are games that are far more complex and challenging than EQ was in as far as world danger and mobs go.

The slower combat, with finite ressources. Ressources management was important to optimize your actions. You could not just round up every mobs, kill em in 5 sec, rinse and repeat every minutes. You had to meditate between fights, which probably helped make the game a better socializing game.

The combat system left a lot to be desired but it did well for what it had to work with back in 1999.  There are far more interesting and complex combat systems in many games out there.  I will agree that down time between fighting did lead to a more "social" experience when grouping with PUGs and not using voice chat.  However I feel that modern games with structured guilds using voice chat goes a long way into making a very social experience. An in game area / group wide VOIP system would go a long way to making random encounters with non-guildmates more social without forcing huge amounts of boring down time.  We also know this is something SOE is capable of doing for EQN, as it's been proven in Planetside 2 to work very well.

Sometimes the answer isn't to go backwards to get a desired effect.  Sometimes you need to think forward.

Corpse run could become and adventure by itself. Minotaur cave in steamfont, my first couple days of playing the game. You could get mezed and pulled deep in there, nothing you could do about it. Real challenge. There are a lot more small things that made EQ better, I won't go deeper in it as it's been discussed many time.

A lot of games have real challenge.  You need to look harder.  I did enjoy corpse runs in EQ for the simple fact that they made death more meaningful and in turn made a close fight more exciting.  However, there are games to achieve this same effect with and without a corpse run system.

If going back to the game now, with the knowledge I have would certainly make the game easier, but never as easy as all the crap we have been fed in the last 12 years.

A lot of games are "Easier" than EQ was in some ways.  A lot of new games are far harder than EQ was in other ways.  It's subjective, but there are plenty of games out there that provide enough challenge.

While you are right that EQ is the father of the themepark games, none succeeded in cloning what really made it a great game to me and probably many others.

 

Again, this seems to be nastolgia talking.  I was simply pointing out that most games hold to the same formula that EQ had all while having many of the features you spoke about here.  Except none of them have received your attention.  So my initial statement was most likely correct.

 

 

 

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  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1116

7/10/14 2:28:56 PM#132
Originally posted by Knytta
Originally posted by Vorthanion
 

Maybe the real issue is that the developers haven't learned what the masses really want any more than those who poll it on this website.  I see a lot of lambasting aimed at casual gamers, yet most casual games are hardly that in the eyes of casual gamers as they are subjected to many types of content and mechanics that are far from casual friendly, whether it's raiding with little or no alternative at end game or forced pvp in a pve game or having to deal with stupidly low drop rates for quest items or competition for quest related npc's and items.  Let alone the recent departure from roleplaying and focusing too much on combat and action combat at that, with few if any systems beyond the hack and slash formula (something I consider to be very casual unfriendly).

This is one of the best posts in the history of this website, I agree 100%

I played a Shaman in EQ from late 1999 and it was not always that fun when you did not get a group or you had a job so you could not do a hard dungeon with a significant risk for a long corpse run late on a weekday evening. EQ was fun but it would have lasted longer  if they had removed some of the most hardcore elements earlier.

Except it's not really a good post because it fails to understand some core issues.

MMORPGs are out of reach for Indies because of the size and complexity of creating an MMORPG that would be acceptable to today's standards.  A major studio trying to appeal to niche audience also doesn't work because MMO gamers in general have certain expectations that they want met in their games.

With these expections comes high costs, and creating a niche game runs into the problem that their game would probably have to skimp on many features and aspects that other major MMO projects already provide.

So they'd be making a game that is feature lite, in an attempt to save money while other games out there can boast that their game does all of those features, and more, for near the same price, all while targeting an already much smaller player base with niche gameplay mechanics?  It's a hard sell, if not an impossible one.

I agree it's a nice dream, but it's not feasible.

Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 626

7/10/14 2:30:21 PM#133
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Azoth

While those points are certainly in most mmo released since then, they are not what made EQ special to me and others I know. EQ wasn't my first, I played meridian and UO for years before playing EQ. Yet EQ is still the game I enjoyed the most.

Cool, I played LoK and UO before stepping into EQ 1999 day one of launch.

EQ had more than the basic trinity most clones gave us. You had tank, healer, buffer, debuffer, puller, dps and crowd control. You could have combination of those, making many setup work. The following games trivialized it down to 3 roles.

Many games have most or all those rolls incorporated into their class design similar to EQ.  Again you're making a blanket statement that seems to stem from a lack of experience with MMORPGs.

While you are right that EQ was vertical progression, there was multiple ladder to get there. Many location with the same level content you could go to. How many starting location did any game post EQ had ?

A ton of games have multiple places to start off and level in just like EQ did.  FFXIV, Vanguard, GW2, etc etc.

EQ had races that mattered, important stats and also different reputation with other races. The world was huge and dangerous, I hate leashed mobs that run slower than you. Today's game are way easier than vanilla EQ.

Many games have a huge amount of races that matter for your character.  Some don't, but many do.  Easier is also subjective.  There are games that are far more complex and challenging than EQ was in as far as world danger and mobs go.

The slower combat, with finite ressources. Ressources management was important to optimize your actions. You could not just round up every mobs, kill em in 5 sec, rinse and repeat every minutes. You had to meditate between fights, which probably helped make the game a better socializing game.

The combat system left a lot to be desired but it did well for what it had to work with back in 1999.  There are far more interesting and complex combat systems in many games out there.  I will agree that down time between fighting did lead to a more "social" experience when grouping with PUGs and not using voice chat.  However I feel that modern games with structured guilds using voice chat goes a long way into making a very social experience. An in game area / group wide VOIP system would go a long way to making random encounters with non-guildmates more social without forcing huge amounts of boring down time.  We also know this is something SOE is capable of doing for EQN, as it's been proven in Planetside 2 to work very well.

Sometimes the answer isn't to go backwards to get a desired effect.  Sometimes you need to think forward.

Corpse run could become and adventure by itself. Minotaur cave in steamfont, my first couple days of playing the game. You could get mezed and pulled deep in there, nothing you could do about it. Real challenge. There are a lot more small things that made EQ better, I won't go deeper in it as it's been discussed many time.

A lot of games have real challenge.  You need to look harder.  I did enjoy corpse runs in EQ for the simple fact that they made death more meaningful and in turn made a close fight more exciting.  However, there are games to achieve this same effect with and without a corpse run system.

If going back to the game now, with the knowledge I have would certainly make the game easier, but never as easy as all the crap we have been fed in the last 12 years.

A lot of games are "Easier" than EQ was in some ways.  A lot of new games are far harder than EQ was in other ways.  It's subjective, but there are plenty of games out there that provide enough challenge.

While you are right that EQ is the father of the themepark games, none succeeded in cloning what really made it a great game to me and probably many others.

 

Again, this seems to be nastolgia talking.  I was simply pointing out that most games hold to the same formula that EQ had all while having many of the features you spoke about here.  Except none of them have received your attention.  So my initial statement was most likely correct.

We will have to agree to disagree. I know how I feel as I am certain you know how you feel. I have played pretty much every mmo that came out in the last 15 years so no I don't lack experience with mmorpg. EQ simply had most of the gameplay features I am looking for in a better package than any of the games released after.

 

  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1116

7/10/14 2:34:08 PM#134
Originally posted by Azoth

We will have to agree to disagree. I know how I feel as I am certain you know how you feel. I have played pretty much every mmo that came out in the last 15 years so no I don't lack experience with mmorpg. EQ simply had most of the gameplay features I am looking for in a better package than any of the games released after.

 

Well hopefully you will enjoy what EQN has to offer.  It's shaping up to be a great game so far.

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  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 626

7/10/14 2:36:50 PM#135
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Azoth

We will have to agree to disagree. I know how I feel as I am certain you know how you feel. I have played pretty much every mmo that came out in the last 15 years so no I don't lack experience with mmorpg. EQ simply had most of the gameplay features I am looking for in a better package than any of the games released after.

 

Well hopefully you will enjoy what EQN has to offer.  It's shaping up to be a great game so far.

I am still keeping an open mind about it, but I don't have much hope. I fear it will try to cater to the biggest denominator, which I am not a part of. We will see how it goes, we still don't have much to chew on.

  umcorian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 391

7/10/14 2:38:23 PM#136

OP makes some good points, but I'm confused as to where he gets his info from.

A. The world is not *fully* destructable.  There will be some places that are protected, like Newbie cities and whatnot. Everything else, however, is going the route of Minecraft. If you see a tree, you can chop it down. If you see a rock, you can smash it. And if you see an orc town, you can raise it if you can kill enough of them.

That, to me, just sounds awesome. 

B.  I'm normally with you about F2P, but SOE has shown it's very savvy and keen with a F2P model that is neither pay-to-win, nor borderline petulant (like EA's model in SWTOR) that tries to get you to pay for very petty things ("Gimmie money if you wanna have the option to hide yer helm!"), or gets you to try and sub through negative reinforcement ("This is the quest reward you'd have gotten if you weren't a FREELOADER... complete with the negative red pen to show how much you're losing."). I have faith that SOE's free-to-play model will be fair and that, if I shell out an average of 10-15 each month I play it, I'll be happier than a pig in crap. I accept the fact that the company needs to make money and if I'm playing a free-to-play game as much as one I've paid $60 + a subscription fee for, it's time for me to crack open my wallet just a bit. 

C. Few abilities on your bar. This is one of your good points. I really don't like this particular direction. 

D. Class roles, from what I understand, aren't going away. You can just level up to 40 different classes and craft your own role. To down content, you'll need to have strong healers. You'll need tanky-style characters to absorb the brunt of the action. And people specializing in damage/support will make everything bette.r

E. Not really sure what your beef with the marketing is. Seems all they're doing, for the time being, is releasing a 3-4 video each week, addressing a community question. That seems very minimalistic - they aren't trying to build this massive hype train with flashy trailers. 

 

 

  Gallus85

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 1116

7/10/14 2:51:08 PM#137
Originally posted by umcorian

OP makes some good points, but I'm confused as to where he gets his info from.

A. The world is not *fully* destructable.  There will be some places that are protected, like Newbie cities and whatnot. Everything else, however, is going the route of Minecraft. If you see a tree, you can chop it down. If you see a rock, you can smash it. And if you see an orc town, you can raise it if you can kill enough of them.

That, to me, just sounds awesome. 

B.  I'm normally with you about F2P, but SOE has shown it's very savvy and keen with a F2P model that is neither pay-to-win, nor borderline petulant (like EA's model in SWTOR) that tries to get you to pay for very petty things ("Gimmie money if you wanna have the option to hide yer helm!"), or gets you to try and sub through negative reinforcement ("This is the quest reward you'd have gotten if you weren't a FREELOADER... complete with the negative red pen to show how much you're losing."). I have faith that SOE's free-to-play model will be fair and that, if I shell out 10-15 each month I play it, I'll be happier than a pig in crap.

C. Few abilities on your bar. This is one of your good points. I really don't like this particular direction. 

D. Class roles, from what I understand, aren't going away. You can just level up to 40 different classes and craft your own role. To down content, you'll need to have strong healers. You'll need tanky-style characters to absorb the brunt of the action. And people specializing in damage/support will make everything bette.r

E. Not really sure what your beef with the marketing is. Seems all they're doing, for the time being, is releasing a 3-4 video each week, addressing a community question. That seems very minimalistic - they aren't trying to build this massive hype train with flashy trailers. 

 

Right on. 

I'm not sure why people think that destructible environments are just going to lead to trolls breaking everything.  Imporant areas that shouldn't be broken will be coded to not break and the rest of the world is going to feel that much more real because they are destructible.  It's a win win all around.

SOE does F2P right.  In Planetside, a player can be just as competitive even if he or she doesn't pay anything, as everything in the game is earnable through playing.  It's a great system that rewards all players and all levels of income.  I have seen very few P2P games done as well as SOE games and their F2P model is the best around.

I personally like the design of few skills vs the massive amount of hotbars.  Each button on massive hotbards is always some lackluster, tiny effect that you just end up playing the 1 2 3 4 5 alt1 2 3 4 5 shuffle on.  With the fewer skills, they can make each one more meaningful.  Give them amazing effects, with each ability having a huge positive or negative effect on the fight.  Rewarding skill, timing and strategy over rotation memorization and playing simon says all day.

I was also under the impression as you are, that there are roles in EQN, it's just that you can mix and match roles, and swap between builds depending on what your group needs or what the encounter calls for, adding not only more depth to combat in the game, but also making grouping with other people friendlier and keeping the small hotboar count from getting stale, even after years of playing the same character.

And ya, I agree with the marketing.  They are releasing dev descussions about lore, game play, and talking with the fans.  Not sure why people are mad about a company that is trying to get the community involved in the development process.

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  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 1385

7/10/14 7:57:36 PM#138
Originally posted by Azoth
We will have to agree to disagree. I know how I feel as I am certain you know how you feel. I have played pretty much every mmo that came out in the last 15 years so no I don't lack experience with mmorpg. EQ simply had most of the gameplay features I am looking for in a better package than any of the games released after.

Out of curiosity, what gameplay features did EQ have that EQN won't have from what we know without making large assumptions? Which of those features are actually challenging-fun and not just a time-sink for those that have a lot of free time?

Why I'm so interested in EQN is that it seems to be going back to UO-EQ-SWG type games. While incorporating new tech and the fact we aren't in 99-04 anymore. A carbon copy of any game from 5-10-15+ years ago isn't going to make it out of the gates. Doesn't mean it has to be a ADD fueled instant gratification game either. Wildstar is a decent example of this, they went the carbon copy route (WoW) but updated several systems, without totally going down the path WoW itself has gone.

Hopefully after SOE Live we'll have some more details, but I've yet to see many reasons why EQ was so much better then any other game. Beyond feelings and memories of how amazing it was. I enjoyed it, but I've enjoyed many games since. I enjoyed MUDs just as much before EQ existed.

  swarmdie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 23

7/10/14 8:13:49 PM#139
Originally posted by OMGr8573
Originally posted by time007
dude, they are riding the wave of crap that is popular now. haha.  they basically pick crap that is popular and throw it in their game.  hah.  too bad.  I was looking for something old school as well, but they take some thing the kids like, mix it in with things vets like, the mix in some things the wow kids like, and the result is a new MMO. 

See that's where a lot of companies cannot win for losing. They give us something "old school" and people scream "We don't want old stuff, we want new and different!!!" they give us new and different and it's "We want MMORPGs like how they used to be!!!"

And the reason why that happens is because the most vocal part of the community is the one that is NOT pleased. People who like the ideas are less likely to feel an impulse to be heard. In the end, like you said, no matter which direction the game takes there's going to be people screaming on the forums that they want something else.

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 626

7/10/14 8:15:30 PM#140
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Azoth
We will have to agree to disagree. I know how I feel as I am certain you know how you feel. I have played pretty much every mmo that came out in the last 15 years so no I don't lack experience with mmorpg. EQ simply had most of the gameplay features I am looking for in a better package than any of the games released after.

Out of curiosity, what gameplay features did EQ have that EQN won't have from what we know without making large assumptions? Which of those features are actually challenging-fun and not just a time-sink for those that have a lot of free time?

Why I'm so interested in EQN is that it seems to be going back to UO-EQ-SWG type games. While incorporating new tech and the fact we aren't in 99-04 anymore. A carbon copy of any game from 5-10-15+ years ago isn't going to make it out of the gates. Doesn't mean it has to be a ADD fueled instant gratification game either. Wildstar is a decent example of this, they went the carbon copy route (WoW) but updated several systems, without totally going down the path WoW itself has gone.

Hopefully after SOE Live we'll have some more details, but I've yet to see many reasons why EQ was so much better then any other game. Beyond feelings and memories of how amazing it was. I enjoyed it, but I've enjoyed many games since. I enjoyed MUDs just as much before EQ existed.

It's all personal preferance, it is obvious that for you the time sink in EQ were just wasted time, to me they are key moment that adds to the immersion.

Waiting for the boat, corpse recovery, dangerous traveling (you ran slower than most mobs), big zones, no map or mini map. To me those added to the feeling of living in a world, to others it's unimaginable. How come in 99 we could have something that massive and diverse.

I am not against progress, like a map that auto reveal when you have explored an area for example. The combat of EQ also probably wouldn't cut it in a game today. You would have to add to it, some classes had 3 or 4 skills while caster had multiple options. So yes this would need to be refined and upgraded. But the interdepency between classes, most of them played totally differently. Most of games today are a lot simplier, with mostly 3 or less roles.

Personally what keeps me playing an mmo is if I get the feeling that I am living an adventure, not just watching a show. I don't need to be the savior of the world, I just want to be an adventurer that may accomplish great things or not. There needs to be a possibility to fail bad. How many games really have harsh death penalty ? Death should be a big deal, not just a free port to your bind point.

I enjoy a lot of games, but as far as mmo goes there is nothing I played more than 2 months since vanilla EQ.

Now tell me about you. What about EQN do you like ? What about it makes it go back to UO EQ SWG games (which are all pretty different games) ?

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