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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Carrot-on-a-stick

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27 posts found
  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6165

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

7/07/14 1:09:04 PM#21
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by bcbully
A month ago you played a different game than I played then and that I'm currently playing.

You can go where ever you want... The only thing limiting your freedom in pve land is your ability to do the quests.


The directional thing you talked about, you created, all in your head.

You can go anywhere you want and do what exactly? you can not quest, you can not gather resources... you can not explore due to high level mobs.

So what is the point of 'go anywhere"? if it was GW2 kind of exploration i would agree with you but it is not the same with ESO.

So nope you can not go anywhere you like because you need skill points to advance your character and those come through only questing.

And that is a bad thing? It is more open based on zones than most MMOs..especially more open than games like AOC or SWTOR IMO. What is the alternative? To have things level up with you so you can explore anywhere? That is exactly why I heavily modded Oblivion, to create more of a zone feel because having NPCs level up with you just so you can explore anyway to me was absurd.

The 'open based' is an illussion in ESO because even though you can go anywhere the activities are still limited. For me personally 'open world' means a lot more than just aimlessly running around. If that is what it means to be open world then you can do the same in any themepark MMO.

If we would be talking sandbox I would agree on your open world definition. For a themepark which ESO is it's atleast to me allot more open then other themeparks.

And I already posted you are indeed limited in choices when you go explore well beyond your level. But there are still playable options, one might or might not like doing.

What many fail to see is that even though you might be doing similar things in other MMO's all games are still different, unless it's played by a person who is not intrested in lore/story or it's quests and just clicks by on all then sure every game will feel the same.

  Joeyjojoshabadu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/21/14
Posts: 97

7/07/14 8:23:28 PM#22
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by bcbully
A month ago you played a different game than I played then and that I'm currently playing.

You can go where ever you want... The only thing limiting your freedom in pve land is your ability to do the quests.


The directional thing you talked about, you created, all in your head.

You can go anywhere you want and do what exactly? you can not quest, you can not gather resources... you can not explore due to high level mobs.

So what is the point of 'go anywhere"? if it was GW2 kind of exploration i would agree with you but it is not the same with ESO.

So nope you can not go anywhere you like because you need skill points to advance your character and those come through only questing.

And that is a bad thing? It is more open based on zones than most MMOs..especially more open than games like AOC or SWTOR IMO. What is the alternative? To have things level up with you so you can explore anywhere? That is exactly why I heavily modded Oblivion, to create more of a zone feel because having NPCs level up with you just so you can explore anyway to me was absurd.

The 'open based' is an illussion in ESO because even though you can go anywhere the activities are still limited. For me personally 'open world' means a lot more than just aimlessly running around. If that is what it means to be open world then you can do the same in any themepark MMO.

If we would be talking sandbox I would agree on your open world definition. For a themepark which ESO is it's atleast to me allot more open then other themeparks.

And I already posted you are indeed limited in choices when you go explore well beyond your level. But there are still playable options, one might or might not like doing.

What many fail to see is that even though you might be doing similar things in other MMO's all games are still different, unless it's played by a person who is not intrested in lore/story or it's quests and just clicks by on all then sure every game will feel the same.

C'mon now. ESO is just as open world as the majority of themeparks (i.e. really not much). AOC and SWTOR included, and in those games exactly the same ways you've ascribed 'openness' to ESO. Doogie is right, the openness in ESO is an illusion, and a pretty flimsy one at that. You'd have to be RP pretty hard to ignore that (as is your choice of course).

  Darq1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 12

7/07/14 8:51:04 PM#23

eq2 2004

you quested to finally be able to play your full class, going through semi-classes, learning the class.

level 20, you finish a quest and are able to play your class.

before entering one of the cities you had to do the citizenship quest.

the first larger zones, outdoor, not suburbs of the cities, group mobs everywhere. you fought to be able to explore the map. you founded or joined groups so you could beat the group mobs, explore dungeons. to enter dungeons you had to do quests and I with quests I mean, use your brain, read the text (or listen to voice-overs) watch the environment, move back to the city, search die library, talk to npcs.

Later there were access quests for everything.

People would seek guilds and it would make sense to join a guild, to get things done, to progress.

Even 3 years and 3 expansions later you could just log in and find groups who would just form to explore dungeons or gain levels.

They got that right.

Then everyone became greedy and manager said they wanted WoW's success. And WoW clones were everywhere.  The decade of shitty cartoon graphics and no content/generic crap and easy mode.

Back in the day developers would create a game they would like to play, they would like to run.

Nowadays some investors say "we want money, create something and our marketing will sell it"

It's not just about the carrot on a stick, the whole perspective is wrong.

  Zhiroc

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/04
Posts: 213

7/08/14 12:20:47 AM#24
Originally posted by Darq1

Nowadays some investors say "we want money, create something and our marketing will sell it"

It's not just about the carrot on a stick, the whole perspective is wrong.

Welcome to capitalism... Companies are in the business to make money, or more precisely to generate profits. If they don't, they go out of business. We've seen plenty of companies do that of late.

And the problem is that these MMOs are freakin' expensive to create nowadays. If you risk $100-200 mil on a game, if your business model doesn't expect a return on investment of many times that, you'll probably lose unless you get very lucky, and you know, innovation generally fails more often than it succeeds. Everyone complains about the "suits" and the "bean counters", but hey, if I'm a VC and have given you a big chunk of money, I want to minimize the chance that I've flushed it down the drain. Some of you probably have done kickstarters, but probably only at the "this is really a pre-order" level--think about how you would feel about a game's development if the amount you contributed was say, $10,000 or more and not $10-100.

For example, take games like SWTOR and TESO, both very expensive to make. I bet the art and 3D assets alone, along with voiceovers take up what, maybe 50% of the cost? More? If anyone knows, I'd like to understand that ballpark figure. But in any case, while this aspect, to make the game look and sound GOOD is just about a requirement, what does it really add to the gameplay?

Look at EVE that "only" had to generate ship designs, and had no moving avatars (I'm not even sure there were any narrations, it's been too long). While it's not my kind of game, I have to give it props for sticking to their design, and pouring more and more into gameplay, and not presentation (so much). And this allowed them to debut with only about 40K (yes, I didn't drop any zeroes) in box sales at launch, and dropping to about 20K subs in the first year, and still survive.

I have a hunch that the next "Big" MMO will be (another) one that starts small and focuses on core gameplay and world building--including how to build a "society" that can drive gameplay beyond the concepts that MMOs use, SP RPGs and MOBAs, into something that really draws people in to an open world concept.

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6165

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

7/08/14 2:31:28 AM#25
Originally posted by Joeyjojoshabadu
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by bcbully
A month ago you played a different game than I played then and that I'm currently playing.

You can go where ever you want... The only thing limiting your freedom in pve land is your ability to do the quests.


The directional thing you talked about, you created, all in your head.

You can go anywhere you want and do what exactly? you can not quest, you can not gather resources... you can not explore due to high level mobs.

So what is the point of 'go anywhere"? if it was GW2 kind of exploration i would agree with you but it is not the same with ESO.

So nope you can not go anywhere you like because you need skill points to advance your character and those come through only questing.

And that is a bad thing? It is more open based on zones than most MMOs..especially more open than games like AOC or SWTOR IMO. What is the alternative? To have things level up with you so you can explore anywhere? That is exactly why I heavily modded Oblivion, to create more of a zone feel because having NPCs level up with you just so you can explore anyway to me was absurd.

The 'open based' is an illussion in ESO because even though you can go anywhere the activities are still limited. For me personally 'open world' means a lot more than just aimlessly running around. If that is what it means to be open world then you can do the same in any themepark MMO.

If we would be talking sandbox I would agree on your open world definition. For a themepark which ESO is it's atleast to me allot more open then other themeparks.

And I already posted you are indeed limited in choices when you go explore well beyond your level. But there are still playable options, one might or might not like doing.

What many fail to see is that even though you might be doing similar things in other MMO's all games are still different, unless it's played by a person who is not intrested in lore/story or it's quests and just clicks by on all then sure every game will feel the same.

C'mon now. ESO is just as open world as the majority of themeparks (i.e. really not much). AOC and SWTOR included, and in those games exactly the same ways you've ascribed 'openness' to ESO. Doogie is right, the openness in ESO is an illusion, and a pretty flimsy one at that. You'd have to be RP pretty hard to ignore that (as is your choice of course).

Can partially agree on AoC once I got out of the confined Tortage. But in SWtOR the gameworld really felt small and I personally didn't get that explorer fibe from it. Rift is another themepark I had some more freedom "openness". Neverwinter again the same as SWtOR felt truly small for me. Tried FFXIV but couldn't stand "blindwalls" anywhere, couldn't even step of a tiny brigde from the side or jump a bush these type of things might maybe be small to some but it's these little things limit my freedom in other games.

  delete5230

Elite Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 2549

 
OP  7/08/14 4:58:24 AM#26

With load screens, Instancing, mega servers, no name plates it's almost hard to call this an mmo. It's more play with people around you doing the same.....But it gets worst, you have to follow a path script. Of curse you don't have to do anything but that's how the game was set up.

Think about this.....You have three starting zones, each with its own adventures and themed graphics.  Now this is great, BUT ITS LIKE THREE DIFFRIENT GAMES !  Even World of Warcraft only expected you to play separated from other areas for 1-10.

Yes, WoW had two factions, but it also had 3 choices for each side. And this is way back from 2003, I'll do the math that's 11 years ago. ESO gives you no choices.

  Slackker

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/04
Posts: 225

7/08/14 5:24:05 AM#27
Originally posted by Tindale111
there are few exceptions for mmos being on rails the major ones like WOW ,EQ,,LOTRO,SWTOR All lead you from one area to the next cant really see this changing anytime soon 

... Everquest? Has it really changed into a quest-driven game? That IS an honest question, because I just can't imagine it.

 The EQ I played only lead you from one zone to a choice of other zones based on level, and I still find the sparse questing amusing given the title of the game. Some of the quests (Shawl, epics) were amazing, but overall... not a quest-driven experience.

-Slackker

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