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  Generol

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/14
Posts: 42

7/06/14 12:07:24 AM#61
Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Yes superstition and religion are one and the same.  

If the minority is factually correct, the minority is still factually correct, what is your point? 

I don't believe there is any other response to your points other than those above.  

Don't get me wrong, there is definitely a correlation between the two and I most definitely see your point when lumping them. The problem though (with that reasoning) is, as I said, organized religion has actually added quite a bit to society where as general superstitions and folk lore have not. This leads me into:

The problem with the minority telling the majority they are wrong is two fold:

1) The majority won't care.

2) It will start a war depending on which religion is targeted (ie: if you posted exactly what you said on specific forums for a specific religion you would receive numerous death threats). Point being, the minority would lose in a massive manner, it wouldn't even be close. 

The best thing one can do or hope for in this situation is education and the realization that science dictates instead of mystical this or that. Take myself for example, I was born and raised in a religious household which wasn't strict by any means (in terms of worship) and my parents had no issue with what I learned because they trusted their kid to find out things for himself. I believe this is a good way of doing things and if more parents did this than their kids would come to understand that fact trumps all. For me, I simply grew up and realized that one side was based on issues that cannot be proven while the other wasn't so it was an easy choice. I will say though that I am happy I had the strict education and that the school dictated the kids attend this or that. The reason for that is I believe kids needs order and structure (especially when you're young and someone dies, etc). I consider it in line with Santa Claus and something you simply grow out of once you realize there is no such thing. Point being, it doesn't hurt anyone to learn it but as one grows older and furthers their education they realize it is what it is. The problem is the same areas of the world that are so destructive and ruled by religion are also the same areas that have the worst education systems (non existent to be honest). So... again, there is little chance anything changes unless something forces it to. 

Long story short, I am not disagreeing with what you are saying at all except that I feel religion has been a value to society in many ways. Part is me says to myself "what if" a lot when it comes to current social and international issues but the bottom line is nothing is going to change in this specific area unless a war eradicates it or education does away with it. Bar those two scenarios, it's just something that will always be in my view. 

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1853

7/06/14 12:24:56 AM#62

This thread is bizarre.

All I know is that I play video games that let me do things I can't do in real life and/or pretend to live in alternate virtual worlds where I can be some dragon slaying badass (cause again, can't do that irl).

For example, In shooters I don't like games like CoD or Battlefield - but I do like stuff like Gears of War or Vanquish because they have the element of fiction. All are shooters, but I have no desire to shoot humans, esp in a modern world setting.

I could care less about something like Wii Tennis, because I can just go play tennis for real. But I like Gran Turismo or FIFA because I can't realistically buy a fleet of exotic cars and race them and I also will never be 11 people nor have my own soccer team.

Personally, I don't think there are too many violent video games, I just don't think there's much value in playing virtual representations of things I could actually do. I mean, why spend hours upon hours doing something virtually if I can do it in real life?

Oh I do like puzzle games though.

 

 

  TheQuietGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/14
Posts: 330

7/06/14 12:25:52 AM#63
Originally posted by Generol
Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Yes superstition and religion are one and the same.  

If the minority is factually correct, the minority is still factually correct, what is your point? 

I don't believe there is any other response to your points other than those above.  

Don't get me wrong, there is definitely a correlation between the two and I most definitely see your point when lumping them. The problem though (with that reasoning) is, as I said, organized religion has actually added quite a bit to society where as general superstitions and folk lore have not. This leads me into:

The problem with the minority telling the majority they are wrong is two fold:

1) The majority won't care.

2) It will start a war depending on which religion is targeted (ie: if you posted exactly what you said on specific forums for a specific religion you would receive numerous death threats). Point being, the minority would lose in a massive manner, it wouldn't even be close. 

The best thing one can do or hope for in this situation is education and the realization that science dictates instead of mystical this or that. Take myself for example, I was born and raised in a religious household which wasn't strict by any means (in terms of worship) and my parents had no issue with what I learned because they trusted their kid to find out things for himself. I believe this is a good way of doing things and if more parents did this than their kids would come to understand that fact trumps all. For me, I simply grew up and realized that one side was based on issues that cannot be proven while the other wasn't so it was an easy choice. I will say though that I am happy I had the strict education and that the school dictated the kids attend this or that. The reason for that is I believe kids needs order and structure (especially when you're young and someone dies, etc). I consider it in line with Santa Claus and something you simply grow out of once you realize there is no such thing. Point being, it doesn't hurt anyone to learn it but as one grows older and furthers their education they realize it is what it is. The problem is the same areas of the world that are so destructive and ruled by religion are also the same areas that have the worst education systems (non existent to be honest). So... again, there is little chance anything changes unless something forces it to. 

Long story short, I am not disagreeing with what you are saying at all except that I feel religion has been a value to society in many ways. Part is me says to myself "what if" a lot when it comes to current social and international issues but the bottom line is nothing is going to change in this specific area unless a war eradicates it or education does away with it. Bar those two scenarios, it's just something that will always be in my view. 

Religion is as helpful as any lie.  I am sorry to hear you were indoctrinated, but that does not make your experience worthwhile.  

I am genuinely sorry but any form of religion is a nonsense. it serves no worthwhile purpose.  Now, I am a committed atheist, and I hate the fact it has a word, because it is fact as opposed to bullshit, it should not need a word.  There are three things I would comment on:- 

1) Some people might argue that Nietzche is a pseudo religion, it is not.  The fact that people require a belief does not make nonsense acceptable. 

2) The universe is beautiful, we come from star dust, most of what makes us is born from Super Novas, and most of what we are will become fundamental molecules again.  That is far more beautiful than any religious personification of things we do not understand. 

3) Morality is achieved via being a social animal.  Some arrogant fucker who is lining his own pockets by selling morality is detrimental to the human condition.  

Anyway, have fun.  

  Yizle

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/10
Posts: 530

7/06/14 12:34:21 AM#64
Originally posted by tawess
can i suggest Sniper elite 3.. the x-ray slow-mo hits are the bomb.. =P

It gets my vote

  Generol

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/14
Posts: 42

7/06/14 12:58:38 AM#65
Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Religion is as helpful as any lie.  I am sorry to hear you were indoctrinated, but that does not make your experience worthwhile.  

I am genuinely sorry but any form of religion is a nonsense. it serves no worthwhile purpose.  Now, I am a committed atheist, and I hate the fact it has a word, because it is fact as opposed to bullshit, it should not need a word.  There are three things I would comment on:- 

1) Some people might argue that Nietzche is a pseudo religion, it is not.  The fact that people require a belief does not make nonsense acceptable. 

2) The universe is beautiful, we come from star dust, most of what makes us is born from Super Novas, and most of what we are will become fundamental molecules again.  That is far more beautiful than any religious personification of things we do not understand. 

3) Morality is achieved via being a social animal.  Some arrogant fucker who is lining his own pockets by selling morality is detrimental to the human condition.  

Anyway, have fun.  

Well first of all, I absolutely, 100% agree with #3. My opinion is religion was (basically) the most intelligent people of their time noticing a way to capitalize on the stupidity of others and creating the system to both control the masses and also make themselves powerful/wealthy. From there it just was passed on and on and on. I have been saying this for years so I couldn't agree more. Most recently we see it with the Mormon religion. Dum dum dum dum dummmmmb

 

There was no indoctrination at all as I said I was given the choice to make up my own mind once I had a clue and my folks didn't mind one bit (in fact I am sure they appreciated not having to pay for a private school any longer). Indoctrination is to be taught or trained something and to accept whatever it is uncritically (some areas of the world have this universally with a no mercy approach that's for sure) so there was nothing of the sort in this case. Usually I am black and white on issues but with this one I actually believe society would be in a much worse position without some forms of it and the entire world would still be trapped in the Middle Ages like some portions of the world. 

The only issue I have and have ever had with completely abandoning the possibility (and.. again, I don't practice in any manner but that doesn't mean I don't question things) is the "where did it all start" scenario. I am well aware (through science) on evolution (fact), and well aware of the formation of the universe (fact) and why earth is as unique as it is (fact). However, breaking every single thing down to the very bottom line question, there had to be something that started the entire chain of events throughout the entire galaxy and beyond. I am not saying it is a God of any kind but without knowing what is out there it is currently impossible to know the facts which is my only pause of completely throwing the possibility wayside. I do not believe in miracles, Jesus turning water into wine, walking on water, anything of the sort, and I do not believe prayer does anything except have a placebo effect on the one doing it, I also do not believe the stories about 7 days, etc. What I do believe is that without any supporting evidence we are all of us currently unaware of the true facts about the beginning of everything (and I am not talking about Earth here) and while I doubt we find out in our lifetime, I hope we can, at the least, get some information. 

You're bringing me back to my drunk conversation frat days with this one. 

  Grrar87

Novice Member

Joined: 2/21/08
Posts: 14

7/06/14 1:10:23 AM#66
Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Steam helps alot but I got to say indie or not if it says 'action' or 'shooter' I pass.

I am all for a good genocide but my god enough already!

Go play candy crush. And shh that mouth. No one is making you play games with rating pass pg-13 so stop pissing in the soup.  aka stop bitching about things just cuz you dont like them. Bring real gaming gripes here, like how MMORPG lied about handing out WoW keys by putting them on an old page just do inside friends and the like could get all them. 

  TheQuietGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/14
Posts: 330

7/06/14 1:12:16 AM#67
Originally posted by Generol
Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Religion is as helpful as any lie.  I am sorry to hear you were indoctrinated, but that does not make your experience worthwhile.  

I am genuinely sorry but any form of religion is a nonsense. it serves no worthwhile purpose.  Now, I am a committed atheist, and I hate the fact it has a word, because it is fact as opposed to bullshit, it should not need a word.  There are three things I would comment on:- 

1) Some people might argue that Nietzche is a pseudo religion, it is not.  The fact that people require a belief does not make nonsense acceptable. 

2) The universe is beautiful, we come from star dust, most of what makes us is born from Super Novas, and most of what we are will become fundamental molecules again.  That is far more beautiful than any religious personification of things we do not understand. 

3) Morality is achieved via being a social animal.  Some arrogant fucker who is lining his own pockets by selling morality is detrimental to the human condition.  

Anyway, have fun.  

Well first of all, I absolutely, 100% agree with #3. My opinion is religion was (basically) the most intelligent people of their time noticing a way to capitalize on the stupidity of others and creating the system to both control the masses and also make themselves powerful/wealthy. From there it just was passed on and on and on. I have been saying this for years so I couldn't agree more. Most recently we see it with the Mormon religion. Dum dum dum dum dummmmmb

 

There was no indoctrination at all as I said I was given the choice to make up my own mind once I had a clue and my folks didn't mind one bit (in fact I am sure they appreciated not having to pay for a private school any longer). Indoctrination is to be taught or trained something and to accept whatever it is uncritically (some areas of the world have this universally with a no mercy approach that's for sure) so there was nothing of the sort in this case. Usually I am black and white on issues but with this one I actually believe society would be in a much worse position without some forms of it and the entire world would still be trapped in the Middle Ages like some portions of the world. 

The only issue I have and have ever had with completely abandoning the possibility (and.. again, I don't practice in any manner but that doesn't mean I don't question things) is the "where did it all start" scenario. I am well aware (through science) on evolution (fact), and well aware of the formation of the universe (fact) and why earth is as unique as it is (fact). However, breaking every single thing down to the very bottom line question, there had to be something that started the entire chain of events throughout the entire galaxy and beyond. I am not saying it is a God of any kind but without knowing what is out there it is currently impossible to know the facts which is my only pause of completely throwing the possibility wayside. I do not believe in miracles, Jesus turning water into wine, walking on water, anything of the sort, and I do not believe prayer does anything except have a placebo effect on the one doing it, I also do not believe the stories about 7 days, etc. What I do believe is that without any supporting evidence we are all of us currently unaware of the true facts about the beginning of everything (and I am not talking about Earth here) and while I doubt we find out in our lifetime, I hope we can, at the least, get some information. 

You're bringing me back to my drunk conversation frat days with this one. 

Your last line, is entertaining.  So you do not adhere to any organised religion, but you are spiritual.  While I still do not run with that I accept it.   I think that partaking in an organised religion is the utmost wilful ignorance.  I think that having a spiritual side to yourself that likes to believe that there is more to life than we understand is a sensible response to the many things we do not know.  

But what I think does not matter, what you think is important.  

In answer to your question about where did we come from and how was it created- the religious answer is 'escalation'.  For God to exist a greater God would have to exist previously.  Physics tells us that everything becomes simpler as we move back in time; escalation does not happen, rather simplification.  On the most simple level this refutes God on a physical level, but it is quite simplistic. 

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19396

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

7/06/14 1:22:28 AM#68
Hmm, this thread is a classic example of why drinking too much and posting on forums is a bad idea, all sense of reason is missing. Seems pretty common for a Saturday night though.

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Generol

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/14
Posts: 42

7/06/14 1:26:29 AM#69
Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Your last line, is entertaining.  So you do not adhere to any organised religion, but you are spiritual.  While I still do not run with that I accept it.   I think that partaking in an organised religion is the utmost wilful ignorance.  I think that having a spiritual side to yourself that likes to believe that there is more to life than we understand is a sensible response to the many things we do not know.  

But what I think does not matter, what you think is important.  

You know the weird thing is I don't even know how to classify myself because you hit the nail on the head. I am not (and haven't practiced in probably 25 years when I was a 10 year old) a believer, I do not practice it, and hell, I don't even believe in it in terms of the stories told. However, I am not ready to rule out the possibility of some grand being creating everything (kind of like an ant farm but on a galaxy level). This is a dramatic rendition but something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1YxBKXjULE

I guess I have my own special ed belief system. I will, from this day forward, call it a "Hybridized Atheistic Mystic Sociopath with a no bullshit clause".  I should trademark it quickly before some gongshow group swoops in and pulls a Joseph Smith. 

  bestever

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/11
Posts: 613

7/06/14 1:27:25 AM#70
LOL what is it that you really want? There's plenty of games that you don't have to kill anyone that are still action games.
  TheQuietGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/14
Posts: 330

7/06/14 1:29:24 AM#71
Originally posted by Kyleran
Hmm, this thread is a classic example of why drinking too much and posting on forums is a bad idea, all sense of reason is missing. Seems pretty common for a Saturday night though.

Nothing like blaming something you disagree with on drink.  

  TheQuietGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/14
Posts: 330

7/06/14 1:32:14 AM#72
Originally posted by Generol
Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Your last line, is entertaining.  So you do not adhere to any organised religion, but you are spiritual.  While I still do not run with that I accept it.   I think that partaking in an organised religion is the utmost wilful ignorance.  I think that having a spiritual side to yourself that likes to believe that there is more to life than we understand is a sensible response to the many things we do not know.  

But what I think does not matter, what you think is important.  

You know the weird thing is I don't even know how to classify myself because you hit the nail on the head. I am not (and haven't practiced in probably 25 years when I was a 10 year old) a believer, I do not practice it, and hell, I don't even believe in it in terms of the stories told. However, I am not ready to rule out the possibility of some grand being creating everything (kind of like an ant farm but on a galaxy level). This is a dramatic rendition but something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1YxBKXjULE

I guess I have my own special ed belief system. I will, from this day forward, call it a "Hybridized Atheistic Mystic Sociopath with a no bullshit clause".  I should trademark it quickly before some gongshow group swoops in and pulls a Joseph Smith. 

I edited my last post to add this : -

In answer to your question about where did we come from and how was it created- the religious answer is 'escalation'.  For God to exist a greater God would have to exist previously.  Physics tells us that everything becomes simpler as we move back in time; escalation does not happen, rather simplification.  On the most simple level this refutes God on a physical level, but it is quite simplistic. 

 

  Datawarlock

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/08/05
Posts: 362

7/06/14 1:40:25 AM#73
It's discussions like these that make the news with things like Pac Man or the coyote vs. roadrunner cartoons being too violent for kids. I've said it before, and I'll reiterate: people are dumb.
  TheQuietGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/14
Posts: 330

7/06/14 1:44:26 AM#74
Originally posted by Datawarlock
It's discussions like these that make the news with things like Pac Man or the coyote vs. roadrunner cartoons being too violent for kids. I've said it before, and I'll reiterate: people are dumb.

haha a bit rude!

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

7/06/14 1:52:57 AM#75
Originally posted by Generol
Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

Your last line, is entertaining.  So you do not adhere to any organised religion, but you are spiritual.  While I still do not run with that I accept it.   I think that partaking in an organised religion is the utmost wilful ignorance.  I think that having a spiritual side to yourself that likes to believe that there is more to life than we understand is a sensible response to the many things we do not know.  

But what I think does not matter, what you think is important.  

You know the weird thing is I don't even know how to classify myself because you hit the nail on the head. I am not (and haven't practiced in probably 25 years when I was a 10 year old) a believer, I do not practice it, and hell, I don't even believe in it in terms of the stories told. However, I am not ready to rule out the possibility of some grand being creating everything (kind of like an ant farm but on a galaxy level). This is a dramatic rendition but something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1YxBKXjULE

I guess I have my own special ed belief system. I will, from this day forward, call it a "Hybridized Atheistic Mystic Sociopath with a no bullshit clause".  I should trademark it quickly before some gongshow group swoops in and pulls a Joseph Smith. 

You can't prove something doesn't exist. People who swear there is no god calling anyone religious a fool are doing the same thing they're fighting against. Forcing their belief on others. It's one thing to not believe in organized religion. I think it's silly. But until I'm omnipotent, I can't say for sure that there is no god(s). Anyone who truly believes in science and reason would understand that.

  Generol

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/14
Posts: 42

7/06/14 1:53:58 AM#76
Originally posted by TheQuietGamer
Originally posted by Datawarlock
It's discussions like these that make the news with things like Pac Man or the coyote vs. roadrunner cartoons being too violent for kids. I've said it before, and I'll reiterate: people are dumb.

haha a bit rude!

He is right though in that people really are dumb and will look to place blame on anything they can get their hands on. The great thing (amazing thing actually) about the gaming community is it is a very bad move to take on this industry as many an "expert" has learned through the years. 

The gaming communities come together like nothing I have ever seen before and decimate potential obstacles to their enjoyment. Authors, politicians, feminists and just about every walk of life has tried their hand and every one of them have had their hands bitten off. It is said the rule of thumb is don't go up against agenda's well I think those people have yet to see what happens to those who try to go after the gamer community. 

  Generol

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/14
Posts: 42

7/06/14 1:56:27 AM#77
Originally posted by DamonVile

You can't prove something doesn't exist. People who swear there is no god calling anyone religious a fool are doing the same thing they're fighting against. Forcing their belief on others. It's one thing to not believe in organized religion. I think it's silly. But until I'm omnipotent, I can't say for sure that there is no god(s). Anyone who truly believes in science and reason would understand that.

Well stated. 

  skeaser

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 3701

Don't die mad, just die.

7/06/14 1:56:32 AM#78

Ignoring the argument for the moment; here are some suggestions for OP:

"Dear Esther is a ghost story, told using first-person gaming technologies. Rather than traditional game-play the focus here is on exploration, uncovering the mystery of the island, of who you are and why you are here. Fragments of story are randomly uncovered when exploring the various locations of the island, making every each journey a unique experience. Dear Esther features a stunning, specially commissionedsoundtrack from Jessica Curry."

http://dear-esther.com/

“It’s a game that dares to ask if raw curiosity is enough to keep players absorbed in its seemingly mundane world, and, based on what I played, the answer is an absolute, unequivocal yes.”
-Nathan Grayson, Rock Paper Shotgun

http://fullbright.company/gonehome/

Journey is an interactive parable, an anonymous online adventure to experience a person’s life passage and their intersections with other’s.

http://thatgamecompany.com/games/journey/

Portal has been called one of the most innovative games of the decade. A hybrid of FPS style and a new genre of spatial brain teasers, Portal offers hours of totally unique gameplay. Set in the mysterious Aperture Science Laboratories, players must solve physical puzzles and challenges by opening portals, maneuvering objects, and moving themselves through space in ways that used to be impossible.

http://www.valvesoftware.com/games/portal.html

And the list keeps going:

Braid, Trine, Katamari, Little Big Planet, Minecraft, Quantum Conundrum, all the MLB, NFL, NHL, NCAA and FIFA games, Skate and Tony Hawk games, pretty much any Wii or Wii U games, Angry Birds, Plants vs Zombies, Lego Games, Animal Crossing, Professor Layton, Civilization, Pokemon, Need for Speed, Forza, Gran Turismo, Dance Dance games, Just Dance, Rock Band, Guitar Hero, Kingdom Hearts, Heavy Rain, Murdered: Soul Suspect, etc. etc.

There's TONS of games out there both Indie and AAA that don't focus on violence as your objective. 


A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

7/06/14 1:58:52 AM#79
Originally posted by Datawarlock
It's discussions like these that make the news with things like Pac Man or the coyote vs. roadrunner cartoons being too violent for kids. I've said it before, and I'll reiterate: people are dumb.

I always thought that cartoon was dumb. The top speed of a roadrunner is 20 MPH a coyote can run upwards of 43. He wouldn't need acme anything to run that stupid bird down :P

  Deathage

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/12/10
Posts: 141

Wannafightaboutit?

7/06/14 1:59:14 AM#80
Has no one brought up the fact that his profile image is (if I'm seeing correctly) a bloody hello kitty chainsaw?
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