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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Pathfinder Online: Welcome to Alpha

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38 posts found
  SBFord

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 13797

 
OP  7/03/14 2:25:39 AM#1

I have not kept it a secret that Pathfinder Online, in development by Goblinworks, is a MMORPG that I am truly looking forward to. Over the past two weeks Pathfinder has hit a couple major milestones in its development process and in this week’s column we will take a look at two of them.

Read more of Rob Lashley's Pathfinder Online: Welcome to Alpha.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  Telondariel

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 909

7/03/14 5:26:45 PM#2

I wouldn't be praising SOE too hard for their crowdforging efforts.  Their Round-Table for EQN proved, fairly quickly, to give the appearance of choice through voting and discussion, with the reality of it being simply another hype tool with little substance.  Those with common sense abandoned it after the smoke and mirrors were made evident.  EQN at this point remains vaporware: there has been zero footage of in-game development since last summer, and the only bait to hook the truly dedicated is to fool people into believing they are helping to shape development through Round-Table discussions.

 

Other companies, like Pathfinder?  Who knows how they will manage it.  Ultimately, I think it's important to listen, and keep lines open for discussion, while maintaining whatever vision you have.  Acting on the voices of the vocal few, as we've seen time and time again, can simply lead to a bigger mess than they started with.  

 

Crowdforging should be a carefully used sounding board, nothing more.

  Konfess

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 753

7/03/14 5:45:02 PM#3

I think the gaming public lies about what it truly wants.  They will say, we want Capital A, B, & C the altruistic form.  When you give it to them on a silver platter, then you find out they wanted lower case a, b, & c the corrupt and shady form.  The problem with asking the games followers during development, you get a narrow profile and mainly fanbois.  These are the ones that stifle words of warning with flames of “see you at release”, or “its fixed already on the PTS this is just an old build.”


A project manager has to take charge and have a concrete idea and goal in mind.  Otherwise they are just a used plastic shopping bag blowing aimlessly in the wind.

Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3069

I actually still like MMORPGs

7/03/14 8:00:27 PM#4
Trove is the best example of developers listening to feedback. They immediately make changes based on direct feedback which is often pretty drastic changes. It's really an interesting process to see.

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6750

7/03/14 8:03:29 PM#5

Roundtables just don't work.  The vocal people almost always do not represent the majority and you end up with a game that only a few will play.

I just don't see this game going anywhere.  The developers just don't seem to understand how to make a decent MMO.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7363

7/03/14 8:41:32 PM#6
Im so pulling for all these guys.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  strawhat0981

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 540

I want an awesome sci-fi game that is a sandbox...give it to me!!!!

7/03/14 9:52:05 PM#7
Originally posted by Ozmodan

Roundtables just don't work.  The vocal people almost always do not represent the majority and you end up with a game that only a few will play.

The loud mouths represent maybe 5% of the people, the silent majority are way above the ones talking. But like the saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

  acidblood

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 245

7/03/14 10:16:37 PM#8

I'm really hoping games like Pathfinder are a success (by which I mean, they release, are well made and fit their audience) as while they may not be for me (though I'd certainly be curious to give it a try), at the very least they can introduce (or bring back) some ideas to MMOs that the 'professionals' seem too scared to touch.

 

The whole 'dynamic event' thing is a great example. Lots of MMOs have them now, but they still feel scripted after a while, they are still limited, and they still all leave the world how it was (and always will be). Could Monster Escalations finally be the true dynamic events that change the world and leave it up to the players (not some event timer) to set things right again?

 

Maybe, either way it's something different, and it will be interesting to see how games like Pathfinder, SOTA, and CU turn out.

 
 
  MMOGamer71

Elite Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 1619

7/04/14 12:19:22 AM#9
Gimme Gimme Now !!!!!
  Kuviski

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/13/12
Posts: 191

7/04/14 12:25:43 AM#10

Honestly, I am not a very big fan of the whole ask-the-community thing. Tends to attract a small group of a certain type of players that like posting on forums but whose views might not necessarily represent the wellbeing of the average player.

Not only that, but I also tend to have this belief that the best games are created by designers with a clear vision that allows little to no compromises.

Listening to the community when it comes to opinions on individual mechanics and that kind of thing I see no harm in, but I wouldn't base a whole game's design around the views of the community.

  SpottyGekko

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2956

7/04/14 3:12:00 AM#11

Don't let the tail wag the dog.

 

The players will always hold the developers responsible for the eventual game design. The developers may say "But you all asked for that !", and the answer from the players will always be "Well, you should have known better !!"

 

It almost seems like AAA MMO developers typically start their design by saying: "Which features appeal to the various significant player groups ? Now, how can we include all these features in our game design ?"

 

Instead, it may be more effective to identify the target player group and figure out how to best design the game to appeal to that group. Ultimately, it's probably better to please a relatively small group, as opposed to dissappointing a very large one.

  haplo602

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 158

7/04/14 3:17:06 AM#12

I am all for developers listening to the community, but AFTER they have made clear what the general idea/direction is.

 

Also they have to be good a gauging unintended impact of changes ....

  Wolfhammer

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 520

Bleh!

7/04/14 4:18:02 AM#13
Originally posted by bcbully
Im so pulling for all these guys.

You need to leave yourself alone mate lol

I'll never pay for development of a game but if a studio comes up with something at least in alpha that makes me sit up, I will invest at that point...   I will not throw money at an idea.

Pathfinder looks interesting so look forward to seeing some in-game footage covering combat and crafting.

Have a good weekend peeps.

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1507

7/04/14 4:55:16 AM#14
Originally posted by Konfess

I think the gaming public lies about what it truly wants.  They will say, we want Capital A, B, & C the altruistic form.  When you give it to them on a silver platter, then you find out they wanted lower case a, b, & c the corrupt and shady form.  The problem with asking the games followers during development, you get a narrow profile and mainly fanbois.  These are the ones that stifle words of warning with flames of “see you at release”, or “its fixed already on the PTS this is just an old build.”


A project manager has to take charge and have a concrete idea and goal in mind.  Otherwise they are just a used plastic shopping bag blowing aimlessly in the wind.

Exactly that.. players don't know what they really want. As a developer you have to have a Vision and stay true to that Vision.

That doesn't mean you can listen to good ideas from the community, or to work together with them at some points.. but finally you as developer have to make the decision fitting the best to your Vision.

  Taranx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 153

7/04/14 10:36:59 AM#15
So, just to be sure, in order to get into this Alpha you need $1000.00 to support it? The peasant fee of $35.00 is for Access in 2016 ?
 
  FanOfSuperman

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 77

7/04/14 10:37:40 AM#16

I have my doubts and fears for Pathfinder Online. The biggest one being that like other table-top games that have gone MMO, i.e. DDO and Neverwinter, this game will stray too far from it roots and lose sight of where it came from.

I was so looking forward to Neverwinter, however that game was a major letdown, not to mention an in-your-face cash-grab!

DDO perhaps didn't stray as far from its roots as Neverwinter; however, the insane amount of instancing in that game killed it for me.

So far from what I've seen of Pathfinder Online, it looks like a more fitting title would be "Lord of the Pathfinder Online"!

I realize it's still early in its development and maybe it's me, but the graphics and gameplay look far too similar to Lord of the Rings Online -- even if it's a sandbox rather than on rails. Been there, done that!

The combat will have to be a lot more advanced than the old-school tab-targeting it appears to have in the videos. I can't seem to find anything on their site that states otherwise, so I'll assume that is their approach.

Frankly, I'm having way too much fun with combat in games like ESO and WildStar to ever go back to the old-school tab-targeting combat system -- I've tried it since playing ESO and WildStar and it feels so slow and boring now. Those two games have spoiled me, so sue me. :P

If it does indeed have the old tab-targeting combat system, about the only thing that might be the game's saving grace for me is whether or not it adheres closely to its table-top counterpart and if/when the game includes the Aasimar race and/or my beloved Witch class.

As of this moment, I'm refraining from getting too excited about Pathfinder Online.

 

Edit: Formatting

  sacredfool

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 736

7/04/14 10:43:57 AM#17
Originally posted by strawhat0981
Originally posted by Ozmodan

Roundtables just don't work.  The vocal people almost always do not represent the majority and you end up with a game that only a few will play.

The loud mouths represent maybe 5% of the people, the silent majority are way above the ones talking. But like the saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

It's very hard to listen to the silent majority because guess what? THEY ARE SILENT!

If a developer wants to listen to the players he needs to guess what the silent majority wants, which usually ends in a disaster, or listen to those players that do speak up. 


Originally posted by nethaniah

Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.


  saker

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/11/04
Posts: 913

Make a WORLD,
Not a Game.

7/04/14 11:05:26 AM#18
My best hopes and wishes for this game. Everything I've seen and read already has it head-and-shoulders above the big-money so-called AAA crap I see out currently and in the works that just don't impress. I deeply dis-like the current crony-capitalism paid alpha's but if it works to get this game out so be it.
  FanOfSuperman

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 77

7/04/14 11:14:46 AM#19

Originally posted by Kuviski

Honestly, I am not a very big fan of the whole ask-the-community thing. Tends to attract a small group of a certain type of players that like posting on forums but whose views might not necessarily represent the wellbeing of the average player.

Not only that, but I also tend to have this belief that the best games are created by designers with a clear vision that allows little to no compromises.

Listening to the community when it comes to opinions on individual mechanics and that kind of thing I see no harm in, but I wouldn't base a whole game's design around the views of the community.


Originally posted by Apraxis

Originally posted by Konfess

I think the gaming public lies about what it truly wants.  They will say, we want Capital A, B, & C the altruistic form.  When you give it to them on a silver platter, then you find out they wanted lower case a, b, & c the corrupt and shady form.  The problem with asking the games followers during development, you get a narrow profile and mainly fanbois.  These are the ones that stifle words of warning with flames of “see you at release”, or “its fixed already on the PTS this is just an old build.”


A project manager has to take charge and have a concrete idea and goal in mind.  Otherwise they are just a used plastic shopping bag blowing aimlessly in the wind.

Exactly that.. players don't know what they really want. As a developer you have to have a Vision and stay true to that Vision.

That doesn't mean you can listen to good ideas from the community, or to work together with them at some points.. but finally you as developer have to make the decision fitting the best to your Vision.


Everything you guys said x 100!

Just look at Apple (whom I despise), they've been extremely successful and have made a fortune telling people what they want, not asking!

Whether it is truly what you need, that's a different story!

However, the point is, IMHO, you don't get rich or become successful by listening and doing what the consumer tells you to do. While it's certainly nice to listen to your consumers, as a company creating a project, you need to know your corporate identity and have a firm idea of what you are creating -- not let the consumer determine that for you!

Ironically, this topic was discussed in-depth in a book for one of the courses I'm taking in my degree program.

 

Edit: Formatting

  zellmer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/09
Posts: 452

7/04/14 11:30:12 AM#20
Originally posted by Taranx
So, just to be sure, in order to get into this Alpha you need $1000.00 to support it? The peasant fee of $35.00 is for Access in 2016 ?
 

Yup, unless they're giving them out to anybody with a "press excuse" or that works for a site like this, that does seem to be the case.
 

So there really isn't much to even speak about with "that aspect" sadly..

 

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