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General Discussion  » Zenimax just cut 300 customer service jobs for ESO in EU 4 months early

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119 posts found
  Zhiroc

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/04
Posts: 214

6/20/14 12:14:07 AM#101
Originally posted by DMKano

I mean BioWare thought they'd have 10million players with SWTOR launch so they spend millions on servers to handle 10million players which never happened - talk about a HUGE overestimation that cost them a ton. 

Actually, they did need all those servers in the beginning, at least with the scalability of their systems back then. It was very, very difficult to login during the individual server region's prime time without getting placed in a queue, sometimes with a wait time of 30 min or more. They were opening those servers to accommodate the initial surge of 2+ million box sales within the first 2 weeks of launch. They've since gone to a more "mega-server-like" system, which I think is a very good idea in general.

And BTW, a 3rd party report on microtransaction revenue placed SWTOR's 2013 revenue at $139 mil, which if you convert to "sub equivalent $" is probably around 1 mil subs. From the article, it seems to say this is cash shop-only revenue, so you could probably add another 300-600K in real subs, or another $50-60 mil. However, there's not a precise enough definition of the figures to really confirm that. So from those numbers, perhaps contrary to popular belief, SWTOR seems to be quite stable financially. I'm sure they'd rather be doing $2 bil/yr rather than $200mil, but I'd have to guess it's not in danger of being shut down.

BTW, a month ago, TESO was beating SWTOR in weekly playtime on Raptr by about 15% (120k hrs vs. 140k). Now SWTOR is beating TESO by 50% (120k hrs vs. 80k, and it's still trending downwards by about 2-3% per day). The usual caveats apply: playtime cannot be correlated with subscriptions, though it might be considered a "leading indicator".

  Wolfshead

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/06/10
Posts: 149

6/20/14 12:19:06 AM#102
Originally posted by Ehllfhire
http://connachttribune.ie/galway-jobs-blow-300-gone-software-firm/ This is the local newspaper for the town the jobs were in.

OMG OP is post old news lol

I don't see what problem is Blizzard did lay off 600 People worldwide in 2012 but did the go bankrupt or did WoW go F2P for that??

massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/29/blizzard-announces-layoffs-of-600-employees-worldwide/http://

I would not to put much in to this for in all honest to keep a server run you don't need 400+ people for that and but point is that many company do this so it is not big deal what come down to at the end of day is company want to earn a profit and having 300 that is not generate any profit and just cost money i think most company will fire them it is simple economy to be honest.

 

  velexie

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/14
Posts: 28

6/20/14 2:59:44 AM#103
It's obvious to most why the jobs were cut: The game wasn't fun. Interesting is that ZOS cut 300 jobs, when only 250 temps were hired. Oh. My. Did they just can 50 people trying to fix bugs? That would explain the state of things. Also to those determined to keep saying temps are always temps, you are full of shit. Temp jobs generally get renewed, but that depends on the success of the company you are contracted to (and your performance, of course!). If the company is profitable, temps are renewed and offered more time, or a regular job. If the company tanks, the temp jobs evaporate. I was a temp before, and I know the drill. ZOS sales were below par. ZOS is a ship on course, yet they just sold all their sails.... Gonna be a long trip, with no known destination. Let the waves guide you, fans! You don't need no stinkin' wind.
  justinthorne76

Novice Member

Joined: 4/28/13
Posts: 6

6/20/14 8:34:37 AM#104
Its amazing the population that really seeks to discredit this game. And this will be my last post defending the game because to actually feel like I need to defend it against people that were against it from the get go is doing the game a disservice in of itself. All I know is countless numbers of people said it would be free to play in a month. So outside of bold predictions theres not a lot of common sense in the people that hang around the forums just to bash the game. Funny too when you look at the trolling done, no actions are taken but just as an experiment, bash Wildstar, and watch the moderators here come down on you for trolling. So when you have moderators with selective moderating, theres really no point in posting or even reading these forums. The articles on this website are good, the forums are a waste of time.
  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5281

6/20/14 10:44:09 AM#105
Originally posted by justinthorne76
Its amazing the population that really seeks to discredit this game. And this will be my last post defending the game because to actually feel like I need to defend it against people that were against it from the get go is doing the game a disservice in of itself. All I know is countless numbers of people said it would be free to play in a month. So outside of bold predictions theres not a lot of common sense in the people that hang around the forums just to bash the game. Funny too when you look at the trolling done, no actions are taken but just as an experiment, bash Wildstar, and watch the moderators here come down on you for trolling. So when you have moderators with selective moderating, theres really no point in posting or even reading these forums. The articles on this website are good, the forums are a waste of time.

We do have plenty of posters like that justinthorne76, but don't let that get you down. I had a look at WS forums, first time, and could not see signs that the mods were not allowing criticism of the game. What I did notice that many of the things they ranted about on here like bots are in WS, I wonder if it is the same posters ranting on again about something that occurs in every MMO?

One thread that really amused me was the one saying there were no sales figures for WS but it is doing well. Here we had a thread saying there were no sale figures and that meant the game was a big fail. :D

 

  User Deleted
6/20/14 11:29:43 AM#106
Originally posted by Zhiroc
Originally posted by DMKano

I mean BioWare thought they'd have 10million players with SWTOR launch so they spend millions on servers to handle 10million players which never happened - talk about a HUGE overestimation that cost them a ton. 

Actually, they did need all those servers in the beginning, at least with the scalability of their systems back then. It was very, very difficult to login during the individual server region's prime time without getting placed in a queue, sometimes with a wait time of 30 min or more. They were opening those servers to accommodate the initial surge of 2+ million box sales within the first 2 weeks of launch. They've since gone to a more "mega-server-like" system, which I think is a very good idea in general.

And BTW, a 3rd party report on microtransaction revenue placed SWTOR's 2013 revenue at $139 mil, which if you convert to "sub equivalent $" is probably around 1 mil subs. From the article, it seems to say this is cash shop-only revenue, so you could probably add another 300-600K in real subs, or another $50-60 mil. However, there's not a precise enough definition of the figures to really confirm that. So from those numbers, perhaps contrary to popular belief, SWTOR seems to be quite stable financially. I'm sure they'd rather be doing $2 bil/yr rather than $200mil, but I'd have to guess it's not in danger of being shut down.

BTW, a month ago, TESO was beating SWTOR in weekly playtime on Raptr by about 15% (120k hrs vs. 140k). Now SWTOR is beating TESO by 50% (120k hrs vs. 80k, and it's still trending downwards by about 2-3% per day). The usual caveats apply: playtime cannot be correlated with subscriptions, though it might be considered a "leading indicator".

Uhm, no.

Most of SWTORs 220 launch servers were EMPTY at launch, the only servers that had queues were those from STAGED PRELAUNCH, and tha was 40 or so servers that were opened for preorders during 3-5 day early access.

They havent done any "mega server" or anything, they had 2 rounds of server merges (and they were very overdue with that) because they didnt even think about server transfers or merges, thats how confident they were. It came back to bite them in their behinds.

Yes i was there in guild server placement programe.

139 mil $ figure is completely bogus, internet is full of various "analysts" and cannot be used to prove anything with much more value that anyone writes on this forum because it has SAME weight.

heres a fun fact:

http://www.torstatus.net/shards/eu/trends

Yes, EAware did let go all the contracters BRFORE launch and had 2 rounds of layoffsof theri CORE staff. ESOs layoffsare NOT core staff (managers, developers that were supposed to continue working on the game). ESOs layoffs are mostly due to postponing console launch and underperforming on PC.

  cheyane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2433

6/20/14 3:02:56 PM#107

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  fodell54

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/08
Posts: 321

Swift as the windQuiet as the forestConquer like the fireSteady as the mountain-Sun Tzu

6/20/14 3:06:16 PM#108
Originally posted by Zeymere

Wow that really sucks.  Working for the gaming industry is a hard road to hoe.

 

Z

Being a hoe is always a hard road.

  JOverlord

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/14
Posts: 141

6/20/14 3:16:03 PM#109
Originally posted by Wolfshead
Originally posted by Ehllfhire
http://connachttribune.ie/galway-jobs-blow-300-gone-software-firm/ This is the local newspaper for the town the jobs were in.

OMG OP is post old news lol

I don't see what problem is Blizzard did lay off 600 People worldwide in 2012 but did the go bankrupt or did WoW go F2P for that??

massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/29/blizzard-announces-layoffs-of-600-employees-worldwide/http://

I would not to put much in to this for in all honest to keep a server run you don't need 400+ people for that and but point is that many company do this so it is not big deal what come down to at the end of day is company want to earn a profit and having 300 that is not generate any profit and just cost money i think most company will fire them it is simple economy to be honest.

 

In 2012 Blizzard lost a few million players...ESO let go half the number of employees that Blizzard let go, does that mean they lost about 1m players?

It meant a decline in subscription for Blizzard.

  wuhsin88

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/16/14
Posts: 86

6/21/14 12:29:05 AM#110
Originally posted by JOverlord
Originally posted by Wolfshead
Originally posted by Ehllfhire
http://connachttribune.ie/galway-jobs-blow-300-gone-software-firm/ This is the local newspaper for the town the jobs were in.

OMG OP is post old news lol

I don't see what problem is Blizzard did lay off 600 People worldwide in 2012 but did the go bankrupt or did WoW go F2P for that??

massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/29/blizzard-announces-layoffs-of-600-employees-worldwide/http://

I would not to put much in to this for in all honest to keep a server run you don't need 400+ people for that and but point is that many company do this so it is not big deal what come down to at the end of day is company want to earn a profit and having 300 that is not generate any profit and just cost money i think most company will fire them it is simple economy to be honest.

 

In 2012 Blizzard lost a few million players...ESO let go half the number of employees that Blizzard let go, does that mean they lost about 1m players?

It meant a decline in subscription for Blizzard.

I doubt they had a million players to begin with. 

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5281

6/26/14 2:33:13 AM#111

This is what a industry journalist had to say about the closures:

"by the reports that surfaced a couple of weeks ago about as many as 300 customer service staff being let go from ZeniMax Online's Irish office, supposedly leaving only 100. At time of writing, this doesn't appear to have been confirmed. However, if these figures are accurate or even in the ballpark,"

240614

Richard Aihoshi usually only writes about F2P games, he is an ardent supporter of that payment method as I am sure he would say himself. But he took the time in his recent column to have a bash at TESO and predict that is will go F2P. Nothing unusual there, he does not like P2P and briefs constantly against it.

What I noted was that even he could not confirm the source or if the figures were accurate. That did not stop to go on an use this as evidence that TESO was going F2P soon of course. :)

So if an industry figure who desperately wants every P2P MMO to go F2P can't find validate that report of job loses why should I or anyone else take them as being the truth?

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1366

6/26/14 6:56:26 AM#112
Originally posted by Scot

This is what a industry journalist had to say about the closures:

"by the reports that surfaced a couple of weeks ago about as many as 300 customer service staff being let go from ZeniMax Online's Irish office, supposedly leaving only 100. At time of writing, this doesn't appear to have been confirmed. However, if these figures are accurate or even in the ballpark,"

240614

 

Richard Aihoshi usually only writes about F2P games, he is an ardent supporter of that payment method as I am sure he would say himself. But he took the time in his recent column to have a bash at TESO and predict that is will go F2P. Nothing unusual there, he does not like P2P and briefs constantly against it.

What I noted was that even he could not confirm the source or if the figures were accurate. That did not stop to go on an use this as evidence that TESO was going F2P soon of course. :)

So if an industry figure who desperately wants every P2P MMO to go F2P can't find validate that report of job loses why should I or anyone else take them as being the truth?

Having read Richard's article - it is published on this site after all - I don't think much of the "industry journalist's" spin.

It is always difficult to confirm exact numbers in these situations. That the lay-offs have happened however is difficult to doubt given the local reporting.

Pre-launch Richard actually wrote about the renaissance of the subscription model as a result of upcoming launches of TESO and WS. I commented that the same could have been said two years earlier prior to SWTOR and TSW and said, as I continued to say prior to TESO's launch, that I thought they had the wrong approach.  

Subscriptions models are not dead however. BF3 had 2.5 million optional subscribers - we know this because EA reported BF3's subscription revenue. It had an optional subscription model - just like BF4 does. Which meant that EA were obligated to deliver new content and that when BF4 had a torrid launch EA couldn't pull staff to fix bugs. As I said in another thread what a novel idea. The customer pays for new content; the customer gets new content.

In stark contrast TESO has become the latest "pay us a sub and trust us" game to announce that staff have been moved onto bug fixing and so new content will be "less frequent". They are, after all, under no obligation to deliver new content. Is it any wonder that people talked about "paid betas" and are sceptical about devs claims of post-launch content when game after game fails to deliver? 

ZoS have cut back on new development; they have cut back on CS. Will they make a switch when they launch the console version ... we will eventually find out.

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5281

6/26/14 9:42:04 AM#113

I had not realised he had said anything remotely in favour of P2P to be honest. I saw his column from the start and he was brought in to write about F2P, which clearly he thought was the best thing to happen to MMOs since the trinity. Not read it in ages which is why I had no idea he has mentioned something about P2P that was not a bash of that payment model.

We know that companies protect their dealings to maintain a business edge. That's why I always say take anything said about a company with a pinch of salt. What gets me about this thread is that industry insiders do not know what's has happened, but posters on here know its a big problem for TESO. :)

I would raise the question as to whether we can compare a MMO to a shooter, but new content is what it is all about for sure. For me though once again, what bugs? If you raced to V10 in a month you saw issues, if you did not you saw hardly any bugs at all.

 

  User Deleted
6/26/14 4:39:37 PM#114
Originally posted by Scot

I had not realised he had said anything remotely in favour of P2P to be honest. I saw his column from the start and he was brought in to write about F2P, which clearly he thought was the best thing to happen to MMOs since the trinity. Not read it in ages which is why I had no idea he has mentioned something about P2P that was not a bash of that payment model.

We know that companies protect their dealings to maintain a business edge. That's why I always say take anything said about a company with a pinch of salt. What gets me about this thread is that industry insiders do not know what's has happened, but posters on here know its a big problem for TESO. :)

I would raise the question as to whether we can compare a MMO to a shooter, but new content is what it is all about for sure. For me though once again, what bugs? If you raced to V10 in a month you saw issues, if you did not you saw hardly any bugs at all.

 

Ye, they postponed console launch (and without a date) because everythings super duper! Right.

  Oph8

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/03
Posts: 176

6/26/14 10:17:23 PM#115
Originally posted by bcbully

Nowhere does it say ESO in the article. Nice one OP... More than slightly misleading. Zenimax owns a lot of companies. 

 

Just incase you are looking for a job other than making misleading threads, Zenimax is hiring for another 100+ Positions

 

Sorry, but the OP is 100% correct. Being a former employee of ZOS ESO is the cause of the madness over in Galway and Hunt Valley.

Oh, and those positions are on hold right now. Not even Kelly is hiring for ZOS right now. 

I also had 2 good friends of mine hired and let go from ZOS. They showed up to work early in the morning and their badges were locked out. They were never told why they were let go. They were to work for a total of 6 months or longer only to be let go within 3 months. Hell, in training they were told they could move up in the company. Heh, I was there, I sat through the BS. After all the sour reviews came back from all the magazines I saw the writing on the wall and left.

"Everything is mine and your woman too"

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

6/28/14 11:28:50 AM#116

I know this is going to rage some people but its worth saying.

they pushed on with ESO and they discarded VR.....interesting

Correlation does not imply causation

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5281

6/28/14 3:02:12 PM#117
Originally posted by SEANMCAD

I know this is going to rage some people but its worth saying.

they pushed on with ESO and they discarded VR.....interesting

Your grammar is making me want to rage, but that's about it. :)

 

  ZigZags

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/23/10
Posts: 347

7/01/14 11:02:01 AM#118

This game's forum reads so similarly to SWTOR's first few months......

 

 

Now: Skyrim
Later: ?
Played: M59, UO, EQ, Runescape, DAOC, SB, EQ2, WoW, EVE, Darkfall, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, WAR, SWTOR
BOYCOTTING: EA/BioWare/Origin/SOE

  Deddmeat

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 332

Not sure how I got K.A.E.S last PvP was CoD and UO lol

7/18/14 5:17:05 AM#119

Temp contracts get closed for any number of reasons and they can also get a contract with the same company, different department for the next week. It's just the companies like to keep temps on a leash so to speak, saves taking them on and giving all those benefits.

Contract workers on the other hand tend to have a contract that pays a temps weekly wage in one day even though some of them are thick as pig.shit ..

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