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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Gold Buyers : Losers or Not?

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293 posts found
  Naevius

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 319

6/20/14 8:19:22 AM#61

EULAs should be invalid because they are 'contracts of adhesion', but, alas, the courts belong to corporations.

In any case, most of the arguments against gold buying seem to fail if games allow 'approved' dollar <-> gold exchanges within the game. No gold is being created here - people with lots of time to gather gold are making an exchange with people who have real-life $. I don't have a problem with that.

Now the gold-seller spam is another issue...

  angerbeaver

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/15/06
Posts: 720

Games Played:Ultima OnlineRappelzLOTROWoWGWGW2SWTOR

6/20/14 8:20:41 AM#62
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by iixviiiix

This genre going to it own tomb then raise up like mummy. lol

 

IMO , gold buyers not losers but cyber crime and sometime part of money laundering (i know there are some case but can't go detail) .

They are people that must be punish by the law .

The MMORPG publishers may try to blind they eyes but crime is still crime .

 

 

Personally , i think it time to remove trade system out of theme park MMORPG.

It don't have any role in nowadays MMORPG and become more game breaking element.

 

If it about alt character then you can share gold , item between character in same account through bank

or make alt accounts relate to your main account to help sharing item between characters .

 

so instead...a bitcoin-like throttled economy should be investigated. World's natural ressources (ore, plants etc) should be finite and set on certain cyclical and randomized spawns.

 

NPCs should only buy those resources, and reward gold. NPCs should only have a certain ammount of gold available, regenerating continuously ( a copper at a time).

Enjoy the bots that take all the resources and sell them to the NPCs and sell you the gold they made. They wont be grinding out mobs, they will just hover near resource nodes.

kryles Xfire Miniprofile
  FelixMajor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/27/07
Posts: 563

6/20/14 8:28:18 AM#63

The gold selling bots - extreme annoyance.

The people who buy gold with real money from 3rd party gold sellers are:

-Disrespectful to the developers and players of the game

-Lazy

-Destroying the game's economy

 

 

Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  Horusra

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2382

6/20/14 8:36:00 AM#64
So they are not lazy, disrepectful, destroying if they buy it from the game like in Eve?
  IstrebiteI

Novice Member

Joined: 10/28/11
Posts: 272

6/20/14 8:41:19 AM#65

MMO games became just a grind. A grind towards the next shiny. There is no interesting, involving, emotionally touching, fun gameplay to be had. It's just work, you farm this dungeon X time to get new item. The fun comes from achieving something, not playing the game. And then, it soon becomes indeed a choice of "okay, I'm earning much IRL, so it's pointless for me to farm this shit for 10 hours when I can spend 1 hour of earnings to get it if I just buy gold".

Say, I'm playing XCom Enemy Within (Long War mod) right now. It's a strategy and tactics game. And I'd never pay IRL money to get, for example, more money (or resources) ingame, because it's FUN to earn money. in that game I do tactical missions (that I enjoy every moment of) and get loot I sell for money, and I get paid money for some of them too. That's how I get money and I love doing it! I don't play the game to achieve something, I play the game because it's enjoyable to play the game. And achievement is just part of the process (need X money to build a new item or new base facility).

See how it works? Paying IRL money to get money or resources in the game would be TO THE DETRIMENT of my pleasure in this game. It would break the balance, it would steal the enjoyment of fighting tactical missions with weapons and armor you have on you currently, it would just ruin the fun. However, in MMOs, it is earning money that is ruining the fun. You have to do shit X number of times over and over and that is not fun.

And it's also repetitive and modular as fuck! Before, instances and dungeons and raids took hours to finish! You'd get a group and you'd spend a whole day there, going around, finding new stuff you didn't see before, arguing which routes to take... Even if in the end nothing dropped for you, it was still an adventure, and you liked the PROCESS. It's all gone now! Dungeons are several minutes long (like, no more than half an hour), they feel like a linear path from start to finish, there's no fun quirks like hidden quests or lootables or just interesting nooks and crannies... raids are the same, just maybe a bit longer (but nothing fundamentally different). The feel of adventure and quest is gone! And so, it all becomes "Grind". You don't enjoy the game anymore, you just grind to get something... so why do it in your free time, when you can just buy it and get past the grind?

PS:

Dungeon Finder completely ruined it. I remember I tried to get my wife to play WoW for me for like 2nd time and we were in that dungeon and she was like "oh cool plant" or "I want to skin all those crocodiles" and group just went on and died because she wasn't healing them (because she was lagging behind looking around the place and skinning monsters and looking at all the loot she was getting") and I said to her to try to keep up with us, and eventually she just got frustrated and said "fuck it I'm not playing with you anymore"...

And then I slowly got it that she's right.

The dungeons stopped being dungeons, people just expect to get this over with as soon as possible. Noone expects someone actually to play this as a dungeon - walk around the place, enjoy the scenery, look at all the stuff that's dropping, read monster names, read the chat for monster interactions, try to check all the corners for alternate routes....

  sumdumguy1

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/20/11
Posts: 886

6/20/14 8:49:36 AM#66
Sadly its a booming business.  They wouldn't do it if the didn't have customers and if they weren't making money.  I know in Asia this is pretty big business.  Over here I was shocked to find out how many people buy gold in games. 
  TheQuietGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/14
Posts: 330

6/20/14 8:51:40 AM#67

If it destroys a games economy or is as a result of botting, hacking etc, rather than simple farming then it irritates me.  

But a decision made on the basis that someone has more money than time is one I understand.   

  Gyrus

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 2324

6/20/14 9:08:13 AM#68
Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

....

But a decision made on the basis that someone has more money than time is one I understand.   

I think its more to do with people valuing their time MORE than the money.

If that's the case - the game is clearly not fun. 

As IstrebiteI said:

"The dungeons stopped being dungeons, people just expect to get this over with as soon as possible."

That's a fault on the part of the designers.

 

On this subject: How's Neverwinter for Gold Farmers?  When I saw the videos for that game I saw exactly what IstrebiteI described.  Linear dungeons to be run through as quickly as possible.  They even provided a trail of Fairy Dust IIRC?

Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19482

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

6/20/14 9:51:59 AM#69
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Buying "golds" from unauthorized sellers is quite simply cheating.

 

It's a case of "I want to play this game, but I don't like the rules, so I'll just break them whenever and however I want." It's the ultimate expression of selfishness in a game primarily designed to be played with other players.

If a game is designed to work with currency selling as an integral part of the game, then the effect of RMT is less noticeable. But the activity of "gold sellers" trying to generate huge pools of game currency for resale inevitably has a negative impact on the game play experience and economy of an MMO.

It also increases the operating cost of the game significantly, because there is an increased demand for Customer Service to deal with hacked and stolen accounts, complaints of botting and cheating, etc. It also means that developers have to devote a chunk of time (and money) to build in additional security measures in all facets of the game, as well as developing sophisticated auditing tools to monitor illegal activity.

Clearly you haven't been following MMO design for the past 10 years or so.  These games are designed to be all about the solo player experience, there's very little interdependence or need for other players, in fact they are just a more intelligent (sometimes) NPC which you really aren't expected to care much about.

So it isn't surprising that people do things like bot, or buy gold, because they are enhancing their playing experience, which is clearly part of the core game design.  Why should they care what impact it has to other people, as long as they can live with it?

I definitely prefer MMO's with a mechanism to purchase gold legitimately, such as EVE, Wildstar and others.  Like you said, gold selling behavior breeds all sorts of evil activities, from hacked and stolen accounts, credit card fraud and of course, diverting development  resources away from improving game play to combat these evils.

But as others pointed out, as long as there are activities in a MMORPG that are perceived as a waste of a players time, and these can be circumvented by cheating the system, people are going to attempt it.

The ends really do justify the means.

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
"People can do with their money what they want. But... that doesn't make it smart" - COORS
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Quesa

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 1265

6/20/14 9:58:20 AM#70

I honestly have better things to do with my life than grind for 8 hours what I can get for 20m of RL effort.

The bitchers and moaners about gold sellers and how cash shops have pop'd up because of this type of behavior are just spitting out anecdotal nonsense.  It's all about time management and efficiency for me.

  slowpoke68

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/19/08
Posts: 371

6/20/14 10:05:31 AM#71
Originally posted by Hokie

I always though game companies have taken it too easy on the gold buyers. Most get just a slap on the wrist by having the money taken away and told not to do it again.

 

I think they should get a one week ban for their first offense. Then two weeks for their second, and then a month, and then a perma-ban on their fourth.

Gold buyers are the whole reason there are gold sellers.

 

We all know gold sellers destabilize the game economy, interfere with legit players from playing the game, gathering resources and fighting mobs. They harass players by spamming local chat and whispered chat, along with clogging up mailboxes. They almost all use stolen credit cards so they have a real effect on people and the rates we all pay for credit cards. The sap away resources and money from the game companies because they have to investigate and then follow up on stolen accounts, hacks, exploits, and harassments.

And its all because of the gold buyers.

 

I also think players who break the rules should have that tagged to all their characters names. So if someone is a gold buyer and I hover over their name it should say along with their class level and so on, "Caught Twice Gold Buyer".

Peer pressure is one of the most effective, useful, easy, and cheapest ways to get people to conform to an accepted type of behavior.

 

Bingo!  Hit the nail on the head here.

  Jaedor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 1008

6/20/14 10:43:30 AM#72


Originally posted by DamonVile
the people selling you the gold are the same people hacking accounts running bots and spamming chat.  I don't care that they buy gold, I care that they support those people.


This.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

6/20/14 11:44:10 AM#73
Originally posted by Slackker
Originally posted by Loktofeit

When you go to a sports game, do you buy a jersey because you're bored and not having fun? When you go to a concert, do you buy the shirt to help you enjoy the music more?  

So in this example.. we're buying shirts from third party sellers a block away from the venue? Like the ones that say "Greatful Dead" or "Slipnot" on them?

Buying from authorized vendors is encouraged. Nowhere on my tickets does it say "Warning: Purchasing team gear may result in forfeiture of seats".

The discussion is about gold buyers, no? I know it;s easier to villify things and point fingers if you shift it to the sellers, specifically third party ones, but that's not the topic. GOOD SHOW! O7

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

6/20/14 11:52:06 AM#74
Originally posted by Jaedor

 


Originally posted by DamonVile
the people selling you the gold are the same people hacking accounts running bots and spamming chat.  I don't care that they buy gold, I care that they support those people.

This.

When it comes to buying from third party sellers, I agree. Here's one of the login screen ads I had done a while back for EVE on exactly that: 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7636

6/20/14 11:54:37 AM#75

Loser.

 

Insert excuse why they can't get gear and need to buy gold.

 

Pretty lame imo..

  iixviiiix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 593

6/20/14 12:02:50 PM#76
Originally posted by Jaedor

Originally posted by DamonVile
the people selling you the gold are the same people hacking accounts running bots and spamming chat.  I don't care that they buy gold, I care that they support those people.

This.

That's why IMO , the designers should remove the trade system.

I don't have any hate again gold buyer/seller . Tell the true , long ago i once buy and sell gold ,

Of course no bot while collecting gold , it mainly to pay part of the subs lol .and it ready long ago.

I can over look the bots (though when i never like them while still in the "business" because they make the gold price drop) ,

but hacking accounts is out of question .It pass the line so far that i can't accept anymore.

 

I didn't say all MMORPGs should remove the trade system , but theme park games all about collect item and self progress so it better to cut the trade.

In fact they ready cut a lot of the free to trade by using bound system.

But do it half is worst than remove it completely .

The instance theme parks not like old open world MMORPGs where things limited by re-spawn time ,

players run instances and stuff like something daily .

In those game , better to remove the trade system.

 

But i think people who want to buy gold to skip the game are good for business .

If you remove the trade and sell gold for them to buy then it will be huge income lol .

After all the games i played , those people always find way to "cheat" even if you ban them. Better give them what they want than clean the mess they cause.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20515

6/20/14 12:18:56 PM#77
Originally posted by bcbully

Loser.

 

Insert excuse why they can't get gear and need to buy gold.

 

Pretty lame imo..

Loser .. yes. Lame .. no .. because you can make money by selling stuff to them.

D3 let you do that before RoS, and i made enough to get RoS for free. I don't mind playing a game for free, and get some extra cash from playing. I don't *need* the cash but i have a lot less guilt spending AH money on gaming stuff.

 

  Darwinian

Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/05
Posts: 28

6/20/14 12:27:22 PM#78

Money is the root of all evil, whether it's real or not.

  moosecatlol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 1188

6/20/14 12:30:06 PM#79

The fault of "Gold Buying" is within the game and its developers.  When a player finds his time in game is being devalued, then he will find a way to mitigate the problem, or quit.

During the peak of the competitive PvE scene in WoW:BC during the Muru wall, no amount of gold was going to get you the kill. Only the filthiest of backhanded tactics allowed premonition to take that world first.

 

Progress should be tied to feats of skill, not the stretching of ones wallet. Which is why I'm loving equalized PvE.

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

6/20/14 12:36:45 PM#80
Originally posted by Quesa

I honestly have better things to do with my life than grind for 8 hours what I can get for 20m of RL effort.

The bitchers and moaners about gold sellers and how cash shops have pop'd up because of this type of behavior are just spitting out anecdotal nonsense.  It's all about time management and efficiency for me.

It's anecdotal nonsese that the people mass hacking accounts are doing it to supply gold to people buying it ? I'd love to hear why you think they're doing it then.

Buying gold from third party sites spports all the bad that goes along with it no matter how blind you pretend to be about it.

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