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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: 5 Reasons MMORPGs Aren't More Enjoyable

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69 posts found
  Sandric

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/06/03
Posts: 103

6/18/14 11:49:31 AM#21

AC back in the day (I left like 10 years ago, a Poor choice on my part overall).  It had a customized skill set which leveled both from use and pouring xp into (though the use was slow).  It had a monthly story update that was often interesting and engaging and you had to give town criers loot to get info for.  Magic components were unique to the person for each spell (though 3p programs cheated in finding them).  Corpses were seen on the ground and were lootable by all after timer (like min for monsters, longer for player bodies) and when they decayed their items dropped to the ground (ITEMS COULD BE ON THE GROUND!!).  AND DEATH MEANT SOMETHING!!!  You left 5-10 of your most expensive items (random) and significant amounts of pyreals on the body.  People carried lightweight expensive orbs or mage robes so those would be more likely to drop than their weapons/armor.  Plus you lost 5% of your stats until you gain xp to make up for it.... and it was cumulative.  Plus vendors had the items from players you could buy. 

Sorry for the long AC rant.  I miss it.  I know it is up still but it is very hard returning to a game you gave up.  I have tried it several times on many games.

Major or Current Characters
AC - The Brute lvl 85 macer -HG (retired)
SWG - Lihone Su'alkn Master Ranger/ MCH - Flurry (Retired)
EVE - Sulone - Cruiser Lover (Retired)
LOTRO - Sandric lvl 50 Burg (and others)- Brandywine (Retired)
GW2 - Sandric lvl 80 Thief - Dragonbrand (Retired)
NeverWinter - Sandric lvl 60 Rogue - Dragonshard (Retired)
Archage - Sandric lvl 50 everything - Naima (Active)
Others (Lots) (Retired)

  Agent_Joseph

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 1069

6/18/14 12:09:56 PM#22

this column is joke

almost all new mmorpg's are focused on action combas without trinity and they are story driven ,all those mmorpgs are crap,with longevity 1-3 months

At end ,  we back to play old school mmorpg's games what is make  before 5-10 years ago,they are still fun and they are MMO's not SP games with MP.

You should to know holly trinity forcing players to corporate  , today happening all players just simple dpsing without any interaction,just same as they are npc's,not need for tactics or use brain.

(column is about MMORPG's not action Shooter MMO's, right?)

 

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  Crusades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/14
Posts: 494

6/18/14 12:15:05 PM#23
#6 browsing various Web pages and social outlets that prove to you how much of a slacker you are with respect to video games and remove the mystery of the game because John Doe from twitch is max level in 2 days and has the final boss on farm already.
  bcbully

Tipster

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 8334

6/18/14 12:17:27 PM#24
Originally posted by DMKano
There is only one reason for me

same damn game I've been playing since 1999 rehashed over and over and over again - ad nauseam

Truly innovative games in MMO space are next to non-existent

DMKano is my alt. jk/jk

 

I agree.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/sunshineNB
J.O.B. Daggerfalls BEST Gank Crew

  Azrile

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

6/18/14 2:23:20 PM#25

Disagree about Trinity and solo content.

1.  Trinity is needed in group games.  Otherwise everyone just runs around  playing solo, but in a group.  There is little coordination.  Also, the entire threat-tank  mechanisms is needed so that bosses and encounters can be scripted in interesting ways.  If you don´t have interesting mechanisms, then every boss is basically the same fight with a different graphic

3. Solo play is needed, and more of it.  To me, the MM part of MMORPG means there is a vibrant economy that is driven mainly by players.   But I would love it if a game could design endgame, very challenging solo player dungeons.  I Absolutely love the dungeon/quest system in DDO because of this.  You go into a dungeon, and it is scripted and designed exaclty like a 5 man dungeon in WOW, but you only have you and your skills to get through it.  WOW has started to add single-player scenerios which are basically the same thing, but they are tuned to be really easy and only used for storytelling.

  plasticface

Novice Member

Joined: 5/17/14
Posts: 16

6/18/14 4:07:43 PM#26

Here's my issues with MMOs today.

 

1. Pointless leveling grind. We all know its a waste of time and want to rush to end game asap. 

2. Crafting hindered by PVE, BOE,BOP.  Its hard to be a crafter when you cant even trade good items or have to beat a high end raid to get a material to craft with.

3. PVP being a CC fest. Why do other players have so much control over my toon?

4. Lack of Solo/Duo end game content. im not sure what games the OP is playing cause most MMOs have NO solo content besides hte pointless leveling system. End game is always forced grouping.

  blbeta

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 78

6/18/14 4:32:46 PM#27
Originally posted by saker
Originally posted by centkin
Asheron's call had so very many things right.  It even managed to be the only NON-Trendsetter listed here.  I wonder why we have not had an even spiritual successor to it? 

Agree!

No successor yet, but if you have interest soon you can play it all you like for $10 old or new account.

Subscription Model to End in July

 
 
 
  Foobarx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/16/14
Posts: 459

6/18/14 4:51:44 PM#28

"Aren't more enjoyable" would imply they are enjoyable, just not to the degree that they could be but could easily be fixed by adjusting the dial, so to speak.

 

So if WoW is enjoyable as easy mode... simply turning the dial will make it even more enjoyable?  Easier or harder?  Normal mode, Hard mode, Mythic mode, Super-duper-omgfg mode.  They've dialed it up and dialed it down.  Subs are still dwindling.

 

5 Reasons MMORPGs Aren't Enjoyable is less ambiguous.  Then it's not a matter of dialing up or down, but rather eliminating or adding.  Holy Trinity out.  Holy Trinity in.  Holy Trinity sort of out but also in just doesn't cut it.

  Lawlmonster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 964

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

6/18/14 5:00:30 PM#29

Really? You want even more story in MMO's than already exists? Can't we just keep the stories to the section of the medium that they work with, instead of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole?

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6721

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

6/18/14 5:08:50 PM#30

1. Instancing and phasing

2. Too much focus on meaningless single player quests and storylines which have no bearing on the people around you.

3. Cash shops and F2P

4. Too much linear gameplay and not enough exploring

5. WoW

  Tenaka30

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 49

6/18/14 5:27:08 PM#31

I prefer the trinity and felt it gave me something to plan for, it made me research what was needed and aim to fill that gap.

Whilst I found games that do away with this "restriction" such as Secret World enjoyable I never spent as much time playing them as others.

  Magiknight

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 809

6/18/14 5:31:29 PM#32
I don't really get what you're saying about the Trinity but I agree with everything else. Stories are usually done terribly, too much solo content, and too easy.
  Chrisbox

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1745

6/18/14 5:38:52 PM#33

There's a lot wrong with some of the points here. The holy trinity or some form of group composition is necessary to have challenging content yet you resent it and go onto say that you don't have to learn anything because you're confined to a role that sets everything up for you. That couldn't be any farther from the truth, mastering your role to be good at whatever you're trying to do is the whole point and skill caps aren't possible without something to master, which becomes even more difficult when you have to play your class/role right on-top of dealing with mob mechanics.  Doesn't have to be an MMO either, Dota 2 isn't any easier because the characters you play at have specific roles/lanes etc. 

GW2 is a prime example of what happens when you don't include class/spec composition, pretty sure EQN is going to end up in the same boat for thinking it's a good idea. Even games in like EVE which is the most odd example I can think of, you don't see good fleets flying around in just whatever, they have very specific ship setups and types of ships included in their fleet makeup for a reason. 

 
 

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  Orious

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 548

6/18/14 6:02:25 PM#34

I think the issue is MMOs have lost their original theme/style/ and point. The modern style of MMO is not in the long-term goals, but in the short-term:

1) Leveling is faster: this isn't a bad thing, but it still makes leveling a short-term goal. Effortless almost.

2)Quests/bosses/raids/dungeons are quick, short, and plentiful: Quests that take days to complete in order to reach some reward are gone. Quests are so common and contrived, the rewards are ALL very meh. The rewards HAVE to be MEH...because everyone is doing these.

3) Leveling is faster because the path to "End Game" does not matter anymore.

----

So what needs to happen is:

1) Make leveling matter... Or... make "end game" non-existent.... or make "leveling" (in the conventional sense) nonexistent.

2) Make quests IMPORTANT and not forced or contrived...make them mean something...satisfy a legitimate goal. This means they CANNOT be the fastest way or the most direct way or the ONLY way to level efficiently.

3) Remove the term "End Game" from the picture. An MMO should live and breath, there should be no end. Have this mindset, and you'll create a more complete and circular world....rather than a ladder with a base and a top.

 

 

  syriinx

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 1046

6/18/14 6:25:38 PM#35

here are my 5

 

1.  Not enough character building

In almost every single modern MMO the character building portion of the game is done in less than a month.  After that its just gearing.  Rift has the PA system, but its so minor its barely even mentionable.  Not only is leveling ridiculously short, once you are at max level that's it.  You are the same you will ever be.

The leveling is WAY too fast, and max level is gear and only gear.  Both EQ and the forgotten, underrated, underplayed EQOA had fantastic AA systems.

2.  Lousy group mechanics

This in some ways is opposite one of the OPs points.  The trinity is a *very* good thing, but its not enough.  It needs to be the real trinity, which was tank/heals/crowd control.  Groups need to go back to 6 man minimum and specialization needs to come back.  No game has come anywhere close to EQs group mechanics, and its because of all the ways you could structure groups, or make a less than ideal group work, by playing to class strengths. 

3.  Busy combat

Not just action combat, but games with heavy GCD spam where you are jamming buttons and keys repeatedly.  While it can be a nice rush in short bursts, in the long run its tedious and removes depth from a genre that used to have tons of depth.  Combat should be strategic first and foremost.  There is plenty of room to require quick reaction time as well, without overdoing it.

4. Modern dungeon design

Specifically, linear dungeons that are the same every. single. time.  I do think instancing has its place (when used as an option) but the WoW dungeon model sucks if its all you have.

The two games to look to are Everquest and Everquest 2.  EQ at launch had great open dungeons.  LDoN supplanted that with the best use of instancing ever seen in mmorpgs.  LDONs were NOT linear and while they were not completely randomized, there were enough maps and random mob placement to give a fresh experience each time.  They were instances that retained the dungeon crawl experience.  And Everquest 2 has shown you can do both: Instances and open world dungeons can exist side by side.  EQ2 even has some acceptable linear affairs, places like Nek, DFC, and especially Unrest are wonderful.  But they aren't quite linear, as they involve backtracking and problem solving.

 

5.  Too many small quests, not enough big quests

Killing 10 rats may always be around, but it should be part of a larger picture.  Quests should require effort to complete, with suitable rewards.  Most of my examples are telling companies to look to the past, but this is one where there is room for innovation.  The current quest hub system sucks.  Its time to get rid of it and think of something more ambitious.

  Chrisbox

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1745

6/18/14 6:26:07 PM#36
Originally posted by Orious

I think the issue is MMOs have lost their original theme/style/ and point. The modern style of MMO is not in the long-term goals, but in the short-term:

1) Leveling is faster: this isn't a bad thing, but it still makes leveling a short-term goal. Effortless almost.

2)Quests/bosses/raids/dungeons are quick, short, and plentiful: Quests that take days to complete in order to reach some reward are gone. Quests are so common and contrived, the rewards are ALL very meh. The rewards HAVE to be MEH...because everyone is doing these.

3) Leveling is faster because the path to "End Game" does not matter anymore.

----

So what needs to happen is:

1) Make leveling matter... Or... make "end game" non-existent.... or make "leveling" (in the conventional sense) nonexistent.

2) Make quests IMPORTANT and not forced or contrived...make them mean something...satisfy a legitimate goal. This means they CANNOT be the fastest way or the most direct way or the ONLY way to level efficiently.

3) Remove the term "End Game" from the picture. An MMO should live and breath, there should be no end. Have this mindset, and you'll create a more complete and circular world....rather than a ladder with a base and a top.

 

 

I agree with a lot of this, I also think a big issue here as I stated on another thread is that too many games are thinking of blizzards game design and the rest of the market instead of thinking about how they can establish themselves within it. 

But there is nothing wrong with having shorter easier dungeons/raids for casuals as long as there is just as much challenging long term content if not more for hardcores, items are better when others envy them and drives long term goals for lower tier players.

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  MadFrenchie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/02/14
Posts: 624

6/18/14 6:42:48 PM#37
The argument that older MMOs had solo content and, as such, encouraging group play is a bad idea is, quite frankly, invalid.

Any MMO that allows progress without a group has "solo content." If you can gather wood and furnish arrows, that is solo content. No one ever said old MMOs did not have solo content and, as such, were better than newer MMOs. It is simply a fallacious argument used to justify the swing we see towards soloing being the most effective method of advancement due to an increase of casual players in the genre.

The argument that all players are awful and, therefore group content should not be encouraged or the most efficient means of progress, is also invalid. It is an anecdotal argument that cannot be proven in any way, shape, or form.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3468

I actually still like MMORPGs

6/18/14 7:03:49 PM#38
#4 is my biggest problem with the genre by FAR!

I love MMORPGs but this trend towards focusing on an endless and ultimately pointless gear grind is really depressing. Especially since there is absolutely zero mystery in it. Everyone knows exactly what gear they are trying to get and how to get it.

I often wonder why an MMO hasn't tried a Diablo style randomized loot.

  Robbgobb

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/03/03
Posts: 446

6/18/14 9:11:28 PM#39

It is an opinion piece so I will go with I agree to a degree on all. Most people want the simple though.

 

Problem I have is saying EQ started the trinity. The last thing I thought of in EQ was that needed a tank, healer, and dps. Enchanter keeping adds under control while rest of party beats down a target is still one of the things that was hardest to do. If someone hit one of the mobs the enchanter was using CROWD CONTROL on then it could wipe everyone. EQ taught me to want a tank, healer, dps, and a CROWD CONTROLLER. It did not teach me any trinity.

  Deddmeat

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 356

Not sure how I got K.A.E.S last PvP was CoD and UO lol

6/18/14 9:27:09 PM#40

I never believe in the 'Holy Trinity' .. my toon, i'll play as i god damn like.  May not be as good at dps etc as another class but as long as i'm enjoying it then fine.

It used to be working around people's builds so the team ran ok, not turning players into builds to make a team.

AO's skill based system was good and the game was good for grouping as well, probably not so much now, WAY to many games have been solo mmo's .. i guess a good deal todo with players who no longer have the time they used to spend grouping etc .. so the games devs got lots and lots of 'we don't have time, we need more solo, less grind, faster xp .. etc etc etc'

I prefered how it was when i first played, when there was no EQ just UO and trying to avoid the red players who you had been told were just around the corner killing every player they saw ;-)

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