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News & Features Discussion  » Trials of Ascension: $50,000 Goal Met - Now Pushing to "Release the Dragons"

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72 posts found
  Azrile

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

6/17/14 1:32:00 PM#41

Easy question.  

Unity is free.   combat animations, modelling, character creation, inventory systems, skill systems, User Interface     All of those can be done for free, and if you have 3 devs working on the project all of those basic systems could be done in two months,... and yet NOTHING is done.

Why is none of that done?    Even if you say they started completely over last year.  and nothing they did 10 years ago matters..  It has been over a year since they ´came back´.   Why is NONE of that basic stuff done yet?  All of which can be done for free.  Why do you need to constantly fundraise and send out press releases when none of the stuff you can do for free is finished.

Why is nobody answering that question?    

 

 

Ps. Reading about unity not being able to make MMOs. I am no programmer, but a lot of people disagree that unity can't. MMO's are big work and have a tough market to go against. I think that is the reason why no MMOs have been released on it. Also as i understand unity gets improved all the time. So im not fearful of the future.

There are people who think theoretically you should be able to do it, and a lot of people have started to try to do it and built hacks that they hope will work.  But these are very very smart people, and none of them have successfully done it yet.  And again, it is a HUGE technical hurdle that costs time and money.. which is why everyone uses HE or some of the other MMO engines.  Unity is amazing for single player games, it makes world  building and testing models and animations a breeze.  But the core of the entire engine is to build a client that handles every function.     Also, while possible, it is very doubtful Unity moves that way.  All of their recent updates are more about making games easier to port to mobile... and again, they would basically have to start over themselves from scratch to make their engine capable of making MMO clients and servers.... which really is a small small market compared to the number of people making mobile games.

  Zlajo_Gemini

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/17/14
Posts: 5

6/17/14 1:50:48 PM#42
Originally posted by Azrile

Easy question.  

Unity is free.   combat animations, modelling, character creation, inventory systems, skill systems, User Interface     All of those can be done for free, and if you have 3 devs working on the project all of those basic systems could be done in two months,... and yet NOTHING is done.

Why is none of that done?    Even if you say they started completely over last year.  and nothing they did 10 years ago matters..  It has been over a year since they ´came back´.   Why is NONE of that basic stuff done yet?  All of which can be done for free.  Why do you need to constantly fundraise and send out press releases when none of the stuff you can do for free is finished.

Why is nobody answering that question?    

 

 

Ps. Reading about unity not being able to make MMOs. I am no programmer, but a lot of people disagree that unity can't. MMO's are big work and have a tough market to go against. I think that is the reason why no MMOs have been released on it. Also as i understand unity gets improved all the time. So im not fearful of the future.

There are people who think theoretically you should be able to do it, and a lot of people have started to try to do it and built hacks that they hope will work.  But these are very very smart people, and none of them have successfully done it yet.  And again, it is a HUGE technical hurdle that costs time and money.. which is why everyone uses HE or some of the other MMO engines.  Unity is amazing for single player games, it makes world  building and testing models and animations a breeze.  But the core of the entire engine is to build a client that handles every function.     Also, while possible, it is very doubtful Unity moves that way.  All of their recent updates are more about making games easier to port to mobile... and again, they would basically have to start over themselves from scratch to make their engine capable of making MMO clients and servers.... which really is a small small market compared to the number of people making mobile games.

 

 

About the easy free stuff from Unity, it is because it is not that hard. Just recently they worked on how the inventory should work exactly. You can rush and make some easy details immidiatly and then change them every 6 months when you think of something extra or better, or you make a good thought through system and program it once without needing to make major changes after. So i understand this.

 

But about the unity engine and MMO's, what you are writing is constructive. While i don't understand exactly, they say that Unity could work with using other middleware engines. Here is the link:

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/is-it-possible-to-actually-create-mmorpg-with-unity.26325/

 

Ps. sorry that is an old post. here is a newer one from 2013.

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/mmo-construction-kit.179338/

  Choch

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 147

6/17/14 1:54:14 PM#43
Originally posted by Azrile

And then, one day you are going to log into the ToA website and see this message...

´It is my unfortunate duty to inform all of you that we are momentarily freezing all development of ToA. You see, weve come to the end of our financial means and without an injection of capital ToA will not make it to market. We are putting all efforts into finding the required capital so you should expect to see even less of me/us around (if that´s possible, right?! ) for the foreseeable future.  

In closing, I´ll shamelessly plug our own need for capital. Should you or someone you know might be interested in investing in the competitive yet highly profitable video game industry, please contact us. Interested parties may contact me directly at don@shadowpool.com for a complete business plan, proformas, and multimedia presentation, including in-game video footage. Please note that our required investment is in the six to seven figure range. 

Best, 
Don Danielson 
Brax

 

I'm all for having a great debate about anything but when someone says something like this, it is time to walk away.

  Azrile

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

6/17/14 2:05:55 PM#44

Let me explain the differences

 

Client based game

Player pushes button to attack mob

Client determines if player hit, how much damage is done, updates the health, and energy of player

Client plays animation of the attack swing.

 

MMO

Player pushes button to attack mob

Client tells server player attacked mob

Client plays animation

Server calculates if player hit, damage done, changes to health and energy

Client receives data from server

Client updates GUI to indicate results from server

Client ( for good programmers) adjusts animations if the original animation is incorrect.

All of that happens in less than about a tenth of a second.

Unity does not provide any way to communicate with a server in that way because it was built for single player games.  Not only do you have to hack Unity to get it to send/receive information like this, but you also have to build, from scratch, your entire server architecture and how it will communicate back with the client.   Hero Engine not only has all of this functionality built in, but it also gives you the server already set up and configured to run a MMO.

The same is true with inventory and banking systems.   In MMOs, the fact that you own a sword, or if that sword is in your hand, your backpack or the bank  are all stored on the server.  How much gold you have is stored on the server.   Any time you access your inventory, equip an item, open your bankbox... all of that requires your client to request information from the server in MMOs.   In Unity, it is obviously all just done in the client.

Like I said, there is a reason why Indy MMO developers mess around unity,  build their game in HE or another MMO engine, and then if you are really big, you modify the crap out of HE like  TESO and SWTOR did.    Moving from HE back to Unity makes no sense at all except that HE costs money and is drastically more complicated ( because of all the server stuff and you really don´t want to ear about Dom and Gom).   I am fairly certain the ToA devs were just overwhelmed as soon as they opened the HE engine and couldn´t even do the most basic stuff.   So they went to Unity which is like using any basic paint program..  everything is very very simple to do.   I was tempted last night to write a 5 minute tutorial to teach you how to do everything the ToA devs have done so far, and it would take you longer to download Unity than it would take you to do it.

  Zlajo_Gemini

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/17/14
Posts: 5

6/17/14 2:26:51 PM#45

Thank you for explaining. For someone that isn't a programmer that was very new and informative(me).

 

About the things not done, i think you are mixing not being able to and just not doing it yet.  With a game as ToA, the possibilities are big, and the balance of ideas is very hard. I think they needed to toy with the system to see just how big their implementation can be. Inventory is just a small part compared to the rest and is adjusted to other features ingame. So it is not that they are not capable but that they just didn't want to make it and redo it a 100 times. Some ideas and features will still adapt and change, and the inventory might go with it.

 

On the other hand it seems that even in 2009 people were thinking of solutions to make  unity work for MMO's as from this thread:

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/is-it-possible-to-actually-create-mmorpg-with-unity.26325/

 

And i think this thread shows that a system is already developed for Unity:

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/mmo-construction-kit.179338/

 

If i misunderstood something in those links or some other feedback you have i will appreciate. It are the same links i posted before, but as you didn't address them i just wanted to put them in your attention again and see what you think about it.

 

 

 
  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 451

6/17/14 2:51:18 PM#46
Thank you Azrile for pointing out problems that most non developper would never have seen. As of now, i put my expectation on hold for this project until we are shown any real evidence of a game being made.
  Azrile

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

6/17/14 3:08:49 PM#47

Nope, you got it right.  There have been many attempts to do something similar.   None of them have produced a game yet though.

Also, that particular tool you linked  only handles the part of making the Unity client game communicate with a server.  The person would still have to do all the server side stuff.  It completely changes Unity and requires you to place spawns and do all NPC behaviors on the server.   Again, this is really really hard stuff which is why if you read the comments these guys were being worshiped for just getting that first part of the process working.

Like I said, it is theoretically possible, and there have been a few good attempts and tools added.  But in the end, it is just a situation that all the work you do to get it to work with Unity are not worth it.  Just use HE which does all of that on purpose and doesn´t require you to butcher their engine to accomplish it.  HE does everything Unity does except it doesn´t port easily to mobile games and the art pipeline is a bit more cumbersome.  People say that Unity is easier to use, but that is because it does not contain all the tools necessary for a MMO, it is a tool for making single player games.

  Azrile

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

6/17/14 3:25:52 PM#48
Originally posted by Azoth
Thank you Azrile for pointing out problems that most non developper would never have seen. As of now, i put my expectation on hold for this project until we are shown any real evidence of a game being made.

They have $50k  and 3 devs.  There is n reason that after a year they shouldn´t have a basic game with at least the core functions of a MMO up and running.

Look at the tool that was linked above.   Those people built a tool to increase the functionality of Unity, and the demo game they have to showcase the tool has more functionality than ToA.

The devs of ToA are just like kids in a candy store. They thought if they raised some money they could just hire people to put their dreams into action.   Indie games are not like that.  Your core team needs to be doing the modeling, animations and scripting and then maybe you contract out side stuff like music, or maybe some environmental art, stuff like that.  But the core work needs to be done by the guys with the game in their heads or you are going to waste a lot of time and money explaining to people ´your vision´.

You just do not have 3 devs sitting on their butt doing nothing but sending email to forum members soliciting them to ´do the server stuff´ ´ do the house´ ..   You will never build a game that way.   Even the lead devs at WOW do codiing or modeling.  Anyone can be a napkin developer and cool ideas are a dime a dozen.  The hard part of making an MMO is having cool ideas that can actually be reasonable added to a game.   Like playable dragons.. they will NEVER be added to a traditional human based MMO.  Someone could develop a game designed around them being playable, but it would require all the artwork and game to be built around it.

Anyway.  we are announcing July 7th, and our demo has already been greenlit for Steam for the same day (free) and the full game will be available earlyish in 2015.  We are mostly done already, just updating some art and optimizing... we want to be able to run on 5 year laptops... hahaha.. talk about unacheivable goals.

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 451

6/17/14 3:58:51 PM#49
Originally posted by Azrile
Originally posted by Azoth
Thank you Azrile for pointing out problems that most non developper would never have seen. As of now, i put my expectation on hold for this project until we are shown any real evidence of a game being made.

They have $50k  and 3 devs.  There is n reason that after a year they shouldn´t have a basic game with at least the core functions of a MMO up and running.

Look at the tool that was linked above.   Those people built a tool to increase the functionality of Unity, and the demo game they have to showcase the tool has more functionality than ToA.

The devs of ToA are just like kids in a candy store. They thought if they raised some money they could just hire people to put their dreams into action.   Indie games are not like that.  Your core team needs to be doing the modeling, animations and scripting and then maybe you contract out side stuff like music, or maybe some environmental art, stuff like that.  But the core work needs to be done by the guys with the game in their heads or you are going to waste a lot of time and money explaining to people ´your vision´.

You just do not have 3 devs sitting on their butt doing nothing but sending email to forum members soliciting them to ´do the server stuff´ ´ do the house´ ..   You will never build a game that way.   Even the lead devs at WOW do codiing or modeling.  Anyone can be a napkin developer and cool ideas are a dime a dozen.  The hard part of making an MMO is having cool ideas that can actually be reasonable added to a game.   Like playable dragons.. they will NEVER be added to a traditional human based MMO.  Someone could develop a game designed around them being playable, but it would require all the artwork and game to be built around it.

Anyway.  we are announcing July 7th, and our demo has already been greenlit for Steam for the same day (free) and the full game will be available earlyish in 2015.  We are mostly done already, just updating some art and optimizing... we want to be able to run on 5 year laptops... hahaha.. talk about unacheivable goals.

Looking forward to it. What type of game is it ? Anything you can tell us ?

  Zlajo_Gemini

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/17/14
Posts: 5

6/17/14 4:01:06 PM#50

Thanks Azrile for the contrsuctive part of your opinion. As we can see it seems very likely that the unity engine has enough support for an MMO and that the future can only bring more easy. So i'm pretty confident it will work out for ToA.

 

As you continued bashing without real argumentation and chose to ignore my explanation for some courses of action i will drop it now. If you are more happy being a hater here then being constructive with us, then i can only hope for you that you will see the error of your ways as soon as possible. I'm off to the ToA forums to have some fun discussions instead.

  Azrile

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

6/17/14 4:57:15 PM#51
Originally posted by Zlajo_Gemini

Thanks Azrile for the contrsuctive part of your opinion. As we can see it seems very likely that the unity engine has enough support for an MMO and that the future can only bring more easy. So i'm pretty confident it will work out for ToA.

 

As you continued bashing without real argumentation and chose to ignore my explanation for some courses of action i will drop it now. If you are more happy being a hater here then being constructive with us, then i can only hope for you that you will see the error of your ways as soon as possible. I'm off to the ToA forums to have some fun discussions instead.

Yes, the fact that not a single MMO has ever been played with Unity is a sure sign that guys that can´t get their ingame camera to work can surely solve all those tech issues.  Again, very smart people have tried for years to get Unity to make MMOs and all of them end up at Hero Engine.

Don´t get me wrong, discussions are fun.  Every person who ever played UO had suggestions of how to make the game amazing.  Dreaming about taming dragons and gathering a hoard and blah blah blah is all great.  But at the end of the day, 3 developers who can´t model and who can´t script are not going to ever make a MMO, with 50k or 500k. .  You see, real developers develop that sense of ´what can I do to make a great game´  and then they spend time learning to code, or how to use 3dsmax or learning ANY skill.  At some point, you have to do some work, you can´t just discuss your dreams.  There is no reason all 3 of these devs shouldn´t be very good with modeling after 10 years.  It is insane to think that these guys have been working on this project for 10 years, yet none of them can do a model of a house. That is beyond lazy.

Right now, they have nothing in the game.  They have the default trees and grass from Unity, they have a  freebie character model, they have basic animations (2 or 3) for that character.   That took them 1 year to accomplish.

The list of things they haven´t done is staggering, and each one of them takes longer than anything they have already done.  Like I said, this is not vaporware because the Unity engine is so easy to use that it is impossible to not make something..   but when you are talking about them taking another year to have a function inventory system or even longer to have a combat system (even for single player game)  we will all be dead before this game is released or cancelled again.

There aer dozens and dozens of ´mmos in development´  in HE.  Those games, despite being self-funded, are much further along than ToA, in much less time.  ToA isn´t a game, it is a bunch of people on a discussion board who have never programmed or modelled talking about crazy and then 3 guys who do nothing but say  ´yeah we can do that, just send more money´..

  Azrile

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

6/17/14 5:03:37 PM#52
Originally posted by Choch
Originally posted by Azrile

And then, one day you are going to log into the ToA website and see this message...

´It is my unfortunate duty to inform all of you that we are momentarily freezing all development of ToA. You see, weve come to the end of our financial means and without an injection of capital ToA will not make it to market. We are putting all efforts into finding the required capital so you should expect to see even less of me/us around (if that´s possible, right?! ) for the foreseeable future.  

In closing, I´ll shamelessly plug our own need for capital. Should you or someone you know might be interested in investing in the competitive yet highly profitable video game industry, please contact us. Interested parties may contact me directly at don@shadowpool.com for a complete business plan, proformas, and multimedia presentation, including in-game video footage. Please note that our required investment is in the six to seven figure range. 

Best, 
Don Danielson 
Brax

 

I'm all for having a great debate about anything but when someone says something like this, it is time to walk away.

Why do you think it is not fair to copy and paste the message that the lead dev used 8 years ago?  

I did not write that post, that is what he wrote the last time they suddenly cancelled the project.   The three main people working on the project now, are the three main people who worked on the project before.  They hyped up their game for a couple years, collected money from people who believed in their ´vision´, and then one day they posted this and disappeared.  Now consider the fact they say they need almost a million dollars in that post, then they do a kickstarter last year with a goal of nearly a million dollars, which fails.. and now they have only raised  $50k.   If they think it takes a million to make their game, and they have 50k, don´t you think there is a good chance that the same message will come again?  

That is HIS words, not mine.    

 

Also, to the dev who posted here about dynamic spawning.   Explain this to me.  Why is it that the ´dynamic spawning´ only is happening from the large overhead position like the toolkit.   Why is it that when you later play your actual character, it isn´t happening.   When the character is being played, they show the 4 sizes of trees, and they show the guy running around the large trees.   But nothing is growing.   Like I said, the dynamic spawning and ´growing´ they are doing is only in the toolkit, not in the game.

and please please give us a date for your demo so we can all be proven wrong.  2016?

  XanwardSongsteel

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/21/09
Posts: 9

6/17/14 5:42:50 PM#53
Originally posted by Azrile
Originally posted by Choch
Originally posted by Azrile

And then, one day you are going to log into the ToA website and see this message...

´It is my unfortunate duty to inform all of you that we are momentarily freezing all development of ToA. You see, weve come to the end of our financial means and without an injection of capital ToA will not make it to market. We are putting all efforts into finding the required capital so you should expect to see even less of me/us around (if that´s possible, right?! ) for the foreseeable future.  

In closing, I´ll shamelessly plug our own need for capital. Should you or someone you know might be interested in investing in the competitive yet highly profitable video game industry, please contact us. Interested parties may contact me directly at don@shadowpool.com for a complete business plan, proformas, and multimedia presentation, including in-game video footage. Please note that our required investment is in the six to seven figure range. 

Best, 
Don Danielson 
Brax

 

I'm all for having a great debate about anything but when someone says something like this, it is time to walk away.

Why do you think it is not fair to copy and paste the message that the lead dev used 8 years ago?  

I did not write that post, that is what he wrote the last time they suddenly cancelled the project.   The three main people working on the project now, are the three main people who worked on the project before.  They hyped up their game for a couple years, collected money from people who believed in their ´vision´, and then one day they posted this and disappeared.  Now consider the fact they say they need almost a million dollars in that post, then they do a kickstarter last year with a goal of nearly a million dollars, which fails.. and now they have only raised  $50k.   If they think it takes a million to make their game, and they have 50k, don´t you think there is a good chance that the same message will come again?  

That is HIS words, not mine.    

 

Also, to the dev who posted here about dynamic spawning.   Explain this to me.  Why is it that the ´dynamic spawning´ only is happening from the large overhead position like the toolkit.   Why is it that when you later play your actual character, it isn´t happening.   When the character is being played, they show the 4 sizes of trees, and they show the guy running around the large trees.   But nothing is growing.   Like I said, the dynamic spawning and ´growing´ they are doing is only in the toolkit, not in the game.

and please please give us a date for your demo.

 

On behalf of the Trials of Ascension team, we would like to wish you and your team the best on your game. Congratulations on the Steam Greenlight achievement, and we hope that you have a successful early release.

Our dynamic spawning technology allows us to control the speed that the spawning happens, as well as the growth rate. For the 15 seconds that we showed the in-character walkthrough, the spawning isn't occurring at the rapid visible rate because it was turned to actual gameplay speeds. I understand that you are skeptical about the technology, and you have a right to be so. With the number of MMOs that are seeking crowd funding, trying to distinguish between what is real vs. what is vaporware is an active challenge, and we are actively updating our backers on our progress to ensure that we have an open line of communication, and they can see what we are working on day-to-day.

There is no set ETA for the demo. All I can state is that it will be released to those with a demo pass when the roadmap that Brax posted earlier is completed.

I appreciate your skepticism Azrile, as it highlights some concerns that prospective supporters of Trials of Ascension may have. In the future we will address these concerns, and I hope that alleviates some of your concerns. Until then, I suggest keeping your skepticism, as you seem like a "show-me-the-proof" sort of person, and until we release the demo your concerns won't be addressed.

Again, I wish a smooth launch upon your team, and all the best.

-Xanward Songsteel

  Azrile

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

6/17/14 6:09:59 PM#54

People have to pay $500 to get to see the demo?   seriously???  $500  to be able to play the demo?

So the reality is that only the most fanatical supporters will see it.  I mean.. people who donate $500 to a game before they even see a demo.. that is pretty serious supporters.  Congrats, you should try selling them some Kool Aid

Did I mention our game, and pretty much every game made in the past 5 years will have a free demo available on Steam before we even allow anyone to pre-order the game.

 

Seriously.. I really have to pay $500 to play your demo?

  XanwardSongsteel

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/21/09
Posts: 9

6/17/14 6:21:46 PM#55

Not at all :) We've been regularly giving away demo passes to members of our community through raffles and other various contests. Donation of enough money to earn the champion badge merely guarantees you a spot in the demo. Because the demo is pre-alpha, we want to ensure that we are able to upgrade our server architecture as needed so that every player has the best experience possible. 

While a demo may be common for single-player titles, most MMOs don't have a demo available in their early stages. Off-hand Xyson (not at release), Elder Scrolls Online, EverQuest Landmark, Wildstar, Deadbreed, Guild Wars 2, The Secret World, and other various titles come to mind. Many of the titles had closed/open beta weekends, but as we're prealpha we're not at that point. It is something that you can expect in the future, though!

In addition, we will have coverage of the demo from the ToA team for those who do not have a demo-pass.

I hope this helps alleviate some of your concerns.

-Xanward Songsteel

  Azrile

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

6/17/14 6:55:58 PM#56

ah yeah.. you are right, you guys are exaclty like Wildstar and TESO.   Exactly the same credibility.

Just to point out, none of those games you mentioned were begging for money for 10 years before making a game, and those games had gameplay and screenshots all over the place.   From what I´ve heard, the ´roadmap´ to the demo has not moved in a long time.  So you guys are going to be fundraising for a year or two just to get the demo out?  I have a idea for a fundraiser.. you could do a ´donate a dollar a day starting now and you will have your $500 before the demo is released´.

The only news we ever hear from ToA is begging for money.

three devs who can´t code or model.  I have a feeling this game is going to be in pre pre pre alpha for a long time.

Develop your game, get off your asses and learn a skill besides begging. There are free 3dsmax, Blender and C# courses all over the internet.  Why don´t you learn something besides how to implement a paypal button on your website.

  XanwardSongsteel

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/21/09
Posts: 9

6/17/14 7:14:36 PM#57
Originally posted by Azrile

ah yeah.. you are right, you guys are exaclty like Wildstar and TESO.   Exactly the same credibility.

Just to point out, none of those games you mentioned were begging for money for 10 years before making a game, and those games had gameplay and screenshots all over the place.   From what I´ve heard, the ´roadmap´ to the demo has not moved in a long time.  So you guys are going to be fundraising for a year or two just to get the demo out?  I have a idea for a fundraiser.. you could do a ´donate a dollar a day starting now and you will have your $500 before the demo is released´.

The only news we ever hear from ToA is begging for money.

three devs who can´t code or model.  I have a feeling this game is going to be in pre pre p itere alpha for a long time.

Develop your game, get off your asses and learn a skill besides begging. There are free 3dsmax, Blender and C# courses all over the internet.  Why don´t you learn something besides how to implement a paypal button on your website.

The roadmap for the demo is actually moving weekly. We have a thread on our forums by one of our amazing community members that is keeping track of when the various bars are updated :)

Just a few weeks ago we released news of a raffle to give away some awesome prizes to our community members and participants which included physical swag, demo passes, and more. You can find the most up to date news about Trials of Ascension at our website here: http://trialsofascension.com/home/

I hope that helps with some of items you pointed out. We pride ourself on our communication, and I hope that is of use :)

  Gyrus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 2322

6/17/14 8:22:14 PM#58
Originally posted by MasterCyria

Not at all :) We've been regularly giving away demo passes to members of our community through raffles and other various contests. Donation of enough money to earn the champion badge merely guarantees you a spot in the demo. Because the demo is pre-alpha, we want to ensure that we are able to upgrade our server architecture as needed so that every player has the best experience possible. 

While a demo may be common for single-player titles, most MMOs don't have a demo available in their early stages. ...

And there's your 'out', huh?

 

I followed your link to here:

http://trialsofascension.com/roadmap

What it says is "not ready".  That's pretty much it. 

There are some percentage guesstimates of how much of each component you have done.... based on what?

 

The reality is that even if you do get any kind of a demo out - even if it CTDs straight away you can simply say "the demo is pre-alpha!", whatever the hell that is supposed to mean?, and then ask for more time to fix it... and more money?

 

I guess it's not up to me to decide how others spend their money... but I agree with Azrile that the way Kickstarter has gone is now doing more harm than good to genuine developers.

 

EDIT: and BTW "Need to get ahold of us?" doesn't work http://www.forgedchaos.com/#contact-form

 

 

 

Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  XanwardSongsteel

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/21/09
Posts: 9

6/17/14 8:34:11 PM#59
Originally posted by Gyrus
Originally posted by MasterCyria

Not at all :) We've been regularly giving away demo passes to members of our community through raffles and other various contests. Donation of enough money to earn the champion badge merely guarantees you a spot in the demo. Because the demo is pre-alpha, we want to ensure that we are able to upgrade our server architecture as needed so that every player has the best experience possible. 

While a demo may be common for single-player titles, most MMOs don't have a demo available in their early stages. ...

And there's your 'out', huh?

 

I followed your link to here:

http://trialsofascension.com/roadmap

What it says is "not ready".  That's pretty much it. 

There are some percentage guesstimates of how much of each component you have done.... based on what?

 

The reality is that even if you do get any kind of a demo out - even if it CTDs straight away you can simply say "the demo is pre-alpha!", whatever the hell that is supposed to mean?, and then ask for more time to fix it... and more money?

 

I guess it's not up to me to decide how others spend their money... but I agree with Azrile that the way Kickstarter has gone is now doing more harm than good to genuine developers.

 

 

 

My apologies, I believe I didn't clarify the demo vs. pre-alpha well. During our last KIckstarter we realized that video from an alpha and description isn't enough to be successful in the current crowdfunding market, because there is so much oversaturation. The demo is virtually a limited pre-alpha with the various systems noted in the roadmap finished (the roadmap percentages based off of completion of the task in the design document), which will then be distributed to our strongest supporters, various press outlets, as well as backers of the Kickstarter so that they don't need to wait two years for a playable game - which is a trend I have noticed (and experienced personally) in the crowdfunding community. So, in a nutshell, the demo is a "fully fleshout" version of various systems of ToA, so that players can make a better judgement about the title. The work in the demo directly translates to alpha, so I have a habit of calling it pre-alpha, as it comes before the alpha is released to our supporters :)

I agree that with the way Kickstarter has gone now, it is doing quite a bit of harm to genuine developers. There are many crowdfunding campaigns started which virtually only contain design notes and a bit of art, and they take away funds from  developers who will actually develop a product. (Ironically, the first title I personally backed on Kickstarter ended up being this. Very disappointing, but you learn crowdfunding quickly.) We're developing the demo with the funds currently collected so that we are not one of those campaigns, and I thank our very supportive community for allowing us to do so.

I strongly agree with you that if someone isn't comfortable donating towards the demo of ToA, they shouldn't. Instead sign up for our newsletter or our forums. We appreciate every donation that we receive, but I don't want to give the impression that we all we are doing is distributing press to collect money - that isn't the case at all. In our actual press, you will note that we never are actually asking for donations. Our press serves as a way to update those who are curious about title, as well as those outside our community who are interested in the development. If they wish to donate, that's awesome, and I love them for it, but I'm not going to be cross with someone who doesn't support ToA or wish to donate. Everyone has their reasons, and there are some valid concerns. In time, I hope that we address the concerns with our demo, alpha, and onwards, but until then, one must make their own judgements :)

  JOverlord

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/14
Posts: 141

6/17/14 9:39:20 PM#60

For me it just doesnt seem like you guys put much skin in the game. You guys are asking us to invest in an idea that has not be started. Thats not how crowdfunding works. First you put in 10k+. You cash in your 401k, you put out a mortgage on your house, you do whatever it takes to capture the essence of your game. This way we know you are invested in the game.This way when the project fails we all fail, not just the people who invested in the game. This makes you work harder to make a product we care to see.

This is also why we have kickstarter, that forces companies to put out a product or the money is refunded. They dont allow for companies to stiff the little guy. Since you guys have no skin in the game as well as not guaranteeing a product I dont see this game going anywhere.

Azrille has brought up some good points that I feel you havent covered what so ever. Take what he has said and improve on different videos you have. Make your image be seen, show the functions you can do in the game.

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