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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] WildStar: Serious Business

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  Nephaerius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1465

6/12/14 2:00:25 PM#41
Originally posted by Kaladin

For a majority of players, Wildstar has been the smoothest launch for an MMORPG in a very long time.  No gaming company can account for EVERY computer configuration and there is likely some kind of compatibility issue with your particular rig.

 

As for the 2.2 million ADD-ON downloads, and the people confusing that with game downloads, you just make me weep for the species.

 

For most players? You got that data where? Because most players in my experience think the game runs like crap. Anecdotal evidence is Anecdotal. My 267 steam games gw2 cube world eso dawn gate Lol strife infinite crisis smite all work with no issues but If one of 300 Games on my PC doesn't work it must be my PC Right? I have a 3.4ghz i7 8gb of ram and a 7950 there's no reason for the crap performance except for their programming.

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1173

6/12/14 2:09:09 PM#42
Originally posted by Laughing-man

I think this thread is utterly confused.

Yes, this. Let me quote the article for everyone posting so far...

"I grabbed the Curse Client and started leafing through their massive library. Over 250 addons have been submitted which, according to Jon Wiesman, WildStar’s Lead Client Engineer, have been downloaded more than 2.2 million times."  - The article

Yet people keep saying this in some way is 'game downloads' in this thread, which is simply untrue.

This is no way relates to the number of players, except that you can bet your average player isn't downloading mods, as average players in most games don't use mods.  Meaning that there is a lot of 'advanced user' interest in wildstar.  Advanced users being people who are content creators and content users,  aka Raiders.

Which is what the game was made for, raiders.

Seems like a good showing!

It's what happens in these forums any time numbers are revealed for a game.

 

The rabid fans immediately pounce on the biggest number shown, and begin spinning it to somehow be an indication of "the number of people playing", declaring the game a raving success.  Anyone who disagrees, or attempts to put the information in proper context is immediately dismissed as "a hater".

 

The rabid haters take the numbers and immediately try to dismiss them in any way they can to make the game sound like it's failing horribly and not doing well at all. Occasionally, they'll flat out accuse the developer of lying. Anyone disagreeing with them or putting the information in proper context is called "a fanboy".

 

Members of both groups - the rabid fans and rabid haters - will often pull numbers out of thin air and begin doing interesting mathematical gymnastics with them to prove their point...

 

Then there's the third category... the ones with no strong feelings either way, reading the information to be exactly what it's described as and attempting to explain it in context to the other two camps. Occasionally, these people will question the data in terms of whether it's well qualified or not in the article. For example, is the company giving straight-up information, or are they using carefully chosen language to make it *sound* impressive, though it really isn't on closer inspection. A common example is the difference between the number of actual active subs, versus the number of registered accounts (which aren't necessarily active). Which ever is the bigger number, is the one the developer/publisher will typically go for.

When a "third category" member points this out, they're accused of being either a "fanboy" or a "hater", depending on who they're responding to and/or disagreeing with.

 

This is basically what plays out for every news article involving numbers, for pretty much every MMO. Welcome to MMORPG.com's forums lol.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3347

6/12/14 2:11:26 PM#43
Nobody I'm my guild has any problems with performance now as far as I am aware, things have gradually improved,. I'm at med settings now with a phenom 955 @3.4 and 460 , and I get a steady 30 now (I've capped @ 30) carbine hav aknowledged issues and that's allways a good thing.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Nephaerius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1465

6/12/14 2:17:38 PM#44
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Nobody I'm my guild has any problems with performance now as far as I am aware, things have gradually improved,. I'm at med settings now with a phenom 955 @3.4 and 460 , and I get a steady 30 now (I've capped @ 30) carbine hav aknowledged issues and that's allways a good thing.

If I was you I would consider myself having performance problems.  I can play the game just fine and get a solid 30-45 FPS the problem is I should be easily hitting double that number with the graphical fidelity in this game.  There's no reason a game like ESO runs at a solid 60-80FPS even with 100 players on my screen and WS's engine chokes so hard.  The other joke is I can turn everything to Very Low and it hardly makes a difference performance wise compared to Very High or w/e it is.

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  Laughing-man

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3384

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

6/12/14 2:17:51 PM#45
Originally posted by Nephaerius
Originally posted by Kaladin

For a majority of players, Wildstar has been the smoothest launch for an MMORPG in a very long time.  No gaming company can account for EVERY computer configuration and there is likely some kind of compatibility issue with your particular rig.

 

As for the 2.2 million ADD-ON downloads, and the people confusing that with game downloads, you just make me weep for the species.

 

For most players? You got that data where? Because most players in my experience think the game runs like crap. Anecdotal evidence is Anecdotal. My 267 steam games gw2 cube world eso dawn gate Lol strife infinite crisis smite all work with no issues but If one of 300 Games on my PC doesn't work it must be my PC Right? I have a 3.4ghz i7 8gb of ram and a 7950 there's no reason for the crap performance except for their programming.

And most players in my experience are having the former rather than the later experience.

Yes the game could use some optimization, but frankly when talking on MMO launches, needing some optimization as it's primary problem makes this game's launch the best in all of MMO history (pretty much)

I mean every other launch I can recall had a plethora of problems, cough ESO and it's zone roll backs every few hours unplayable first dungeons and horrible lag / desync issues.   Then you could look at WoW and it's horrible launch, or Aion's sitting hours to be in ANY server, same thing for SWG, lets check out DAoC, yep balls deep queues for days.

Wildstar had queues, on SOME servers, there was still never a queue for me on my server of choice, and many others, it's bugs are being rapidly addressed, and I've seen far less issues than any other game when it comes to 'launch pains'.

All of which is why the 'advanced users' are enjoying this game (the people who download mods are a small part of the gaming community). 

  Laughing-man

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3384

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

6/12/14 2:21:06 PM#46
Originally posted by Nephaerius
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Nobody I'm my guild has any problems with performance now as far as I am aware, things have gradually improved,. I'm at med settings now with a phenom 955 @3.4 and 460 , and I get a steady 30 now (I've capped @ 30) carbine hav aknowledged issues and that's allways a good thing.

If I was you I would consider myself having performance problems.  I can play the game just fine and get a solid 30-45 FPS the problem is I should be easily hitting double that number with the graphical fidelity in this game.  There's no reason a game like ESO runs at a solid 60-80FPS even with 100 players on my screen and WS's engine chokes so hard.  The other joke is I can turn everything to Very Low and it hardly makes a difference performance wise compared to Very High or w/e it is.

The human eye (generally) can't perceive a difference past around 25-30 fps.  Hence why games like Halo 3 are locked at 30fps, and why movies are 24fps.  So... not sure what kind of eyes you are using or why you need it to have dramatically more FPS than a human can even see but... yeah...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

  Nephaerius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1465

6/12/14 2:25:47 PM#47
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Nephaerius
Originally posted by Kaladin

For a majority of players, Wildstar has been the smoothest launch for an MMORPG in a very long time.  No gaming company can account for EVERY computer configuration and there is likely some kind of compatibility issue with your particular rig.

 

As for the 2.2 million ADD-ON downloads, and the people confusing that with game downloads, you just make me weep for the species.

 

For most players? You got that data where? Because most players in my experience think the game runs like crap. Anecdotal evidence is Anecdotal. My 267 steam games gw2 cube world eso dawn gate Lol strife infinite crisis smite all work with no issues but If one of 300 Games on my PC doesn't work it must be my PC Right? I have a 3.4ghz i7 8gb of ram and a 7950 there's no reason for the crap performance except for their programming.

And most players in my experience are having the former rather than the later experience.

Yes the game could use some optimization, but frankly when talking on MMO launches, needing some optimization as it's primary problem makes this game's launch the best in all of MMO history (pretty much)

I mean every other launch I can recall had a plethora of problems, cough ESO and it's zone roll backs every few hours unplayable first dungeons and horrible lag / desync issues.   Then you could look at WoW and it's horrible launch, or Aion's sitting hours to be in ANY server, same thing for SWG, lets check out DAoC, yep balls deep queues for days.

Wildstar had queues, on SOME servers, there was still never a queue for me on my server of choice, and many others, it's bugs are being rapidly addressed, and I've seen far less issues than any other game when it comes to 'launch pains'.

All of which is why the 'advanced users' are enjoying this game (the people who download mods are a small part of the gaming community). 

 

My only problem at ESO launch some quests I couldn't complete due to de-sync, log out, log back in, issue resolved. You mention Aion's launch the only issue was Queue times.  Here's Wildstar - Every time I select my character from selection it takes all day to show the loading bar, once the game loads it takes another day to show the UI and everything else (if I reload the game everything happens in seconds), about 50% of the time the game will crash here, I restart the game and log in and get in with no issues.  I get random timeouts/dc's from the server when my net is just fine (I'm streaming video at the same time without interruption).  Got a random blue screen the other day.  I have desync in WS and huge lag spikes as well. 

Better launches than WS in my experience: GW2, SWTOR, Defiance, Age of Wushu, Darkfall Unholy Wars (yeah I said it lol), TSW, FFXIV 2.0, Rift, Tera, DCUO, STO, Aion (the only launch problem was queues), I mean pretty much every game I've played since 2009 has had a better launch than this game.

Worth pointing out - I was subbed to ESO and cancelled my sub and subbed to WS so I am enjoying the game and am not on an ESO is better rampage.  Like I mentioned earlier my PC is on the high end, I have 300 games working just fine, and I'm no dummy when it comes to PC gaming but I appreciate your "advanced users" have no issues comment lulz since downloading an Add On or mod represents technical skill.

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  Nephaerius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1465

6/12/14 2:28:11 PM#48
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Nephaerius
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Nobody I'm my guild has any problems with performance now as far as I am aware, things have gradually improved,. I'm at med settings now with a phenom 955 @3.4 and 460 , and I get a steady 30 now (I've capped @ 30) carbine hav aknowledged issues and that's allways a good thing.

If I was you I would consider myself having performance problems.  I can play the game just fine and get a solid 30-45 FPS the problem is I should be easily hitting double that number with the graphical fidelity in this game.  There's no reason a game like ESO runs at a solid 60-80FPS even with 100 players on my screen and WS's engine chokes so hard.  The other joke is I can turn everything to Very Low and it hardly makes a difference performance wise compared to Very High or w/e it is.

The human eye (generally) can't perceive a difference past around 25-30 fps.  Hence why games like Halo 3 are locked at 30fps, and why movies are 24fps.  So... not sure what kind of eyes you are using or why you need it to have dramatically more FPS than a human can even see but... yeah...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

 

First in case you don't know that data about the human eye is totally false so you may want to stop spreading misinformation and siting wikipedia as your point of reference.  For starters your eyeball is not a camera and doesn't see in Frames Per Second so.....

Moving on I have to guess it's been your misfortune to play on a toaster your whole life because if you play a game at 60FPS and 30FPS it's impossible to tell me you don't notice the difference.  It's easily noticable.  Now if you want to compare 60 FPS to 120FPS sure there's little if any difference unless you have a 120hz refresh rate on your monitor. It's cool if you don't mind 30 FPS but for me that's basically unplayable.  Especially when I'm playing a game that has the graphical quality of a cartoon.

As an experiment go play so DMC (the reboot on PS3) and then play it on PC. The difference due to FPS alone is staggering. 

 
 
 
 
 
 

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  Nephaerius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1465

6/12/14 2:29:01 PM#49
double post srry

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  delta9

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/05
Posts: 241

6/12/14 2:39:32 PM#50
Originally posted by MMOManiacs
Originally posted by delta9

i got a 7 day trial from a friend, i thought id give it a proper go and still i do not like it at all

 

graphically it looks terrible, instanced housing is just why bother, combat is crappy and it was just a yawn fest hand held hub to hub theme park - appealing to some maybe but not to me

 

the stats of downloads will be hyped fairly significantly due to the 7 day trials

Yet another person who thinks the article is talking about game downloads. :/

Wrong, I know they are talking about addon downloads, I downloaded quite a lot in my trial and other people who had the trial also downloaded more that I know of, so my point still stands :)

  Nephaerius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1465

6/12/14 2:41:08 PM#51
Originally posted by delta9
Originally posted by MMOManiacs
Originally posted by delta9

i got a 7 day trial from a friend, i thought id give it a proper go and still i do not like it at all

 

graphically it looks terrible, instanced housing is just why bother, combat is crappy and it was just a yawn fest hand held hub to hub theme park - appealing to some maybe but not to me

 

the stats of downloads will be hyped fairly significantly due to the 7 day trials

Yet another person who thinks the article is talking about game downloads. :/

Wrong, I know they are talking about addon downloads, I downloaded quite a lot in my trial and other people who had the trial also downloaded more that I know of, so my point still stands :)

Yeah the data provided here is pretty useless for drawing any conclusion with an ounce of substance.

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  delta9

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/05
Posts: 241

6/12/14 2:43:47 PM#52
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by delta9

i got a 7 day trial from a friend, i thought id give it a proper go and still i do not like it at all

 

graphically it looks terrible, instanced housing is just why bother, combat is crappy and it was just a yawn fest hand held hub to hub theme park - appealing to some maybe but not to me

 

the stats of downloads will be hyped fairly significantly due to the 7 day trials

 

someone else who did not read the article.

I'm sorry you didn't like the action combat, it's very similar to TERA, GW2, Age of Conan, SMITE, a lot of very popular and well received games, so it's you, not the game.

Graphically it looks like a TV show, or something Pixar made, Pixar makes a lot of very popular things, again, that seems like its on you, not the game.

The housing is universally praised for it's complexity, diversity, and variety... again not sure if that is the game's fault.  Yes it's instanced, they simply could not provide the same experience if it was not.  They plan on making houses hook up in the future, I wouldn't be so quick to discount it, you can easily visit neighbors houses and invite friends over, housing is one of their best selling points.

I really love how they did questing in this game. There is literally NEVER a dull moment, it has the reward down perfectly when it comes to number of things achieved.  Always something to do and always satisfying.  Yes it's quest hubs, but they added a lot of variety to them, the calls coming in, the random quests you pick up off objects and quest drops are rather evenly balanced to create an experience that is really satisfying and well paced.

I couldn't be happier with Wildstar, It has the perfect blend of all the mechanics I wanted in a Theme park game.  Respectfully I think the problem is your expectations of the game, not the game itself.

 

I like how people assume I did not read the article when I did!

 

I enjoyed GW2 and AoC but Wildstar nah the combat doesn't feel the same to me.

It does not look like a TV show, yes it maybe looks like a old cartoon at best but its just horrid imo.

Some may praise instanced housing, I and others dont. That is just the way it is.

 

I am glad you and others enjoy mind numbing no thought involved questing though! But it is not for me, ofcourse all the reasons I do not like the game are my personal thoughts same for those who do like the game.

I will keep my hopes up for a real MMO like The Repopulation and stay firmly away from these boring themeparks!

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5168

6/12/14 2:44:51 PM#53
Originally posted by Nephaerius
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Nephaerius
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Nobody I'm my guild has any problems with performance now as far as I am aware, things have gradually improved,. I'm at med settings now with a phenom 955 @3.4 and 460 , and I get a steady 30 now (I've capped @ 30) carbine hav aknowledged issues and that's allways a good thing.

If I was you I would consider myself having performance problems.  I can play the game just fine and get a solid 30-45 FPS the problem is I should be easily hitting double that number with the graphical fidelity in this game.  There's no reason a game like ESO runs at a solid 60-80FPS even with 100 players on my screen and WS's engine chokes so hard.  The other joke is I can turn everything to Very Low and it hardly makes a difference performance wise compared to Very High or w/e it is.

The human eye (generally) can't perceive a difference past around 25-30 fps.  Hence why games like Halo 3 are locked at 30fps, and why movies are 24fps.  So... not sure what kind of eyes you are using or why you need it to have dramatically more FPS than a human can even see but... yeah...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

 

First in case you don't know that data about the human eye is totally false so you may want to stop spreading misinformation and siting wikipedia as your point of reference.  For starters your eyeball is not a camera and doesn't see in Frames Per Second so.....

Moving on I have to guess it's been your misfortune to play on a toaster your whole life because if you play a game at 60FPS and 30FPS it's impossible to tell me you don't notice the difference.  It's easily noticable.  Now if you want to compare 60 FPS to 120FPS sure there's little if any difference unless you have a 120hz refresh rate on your monitor. It's cool if you don't mind 30 FPS but for me that's basically unplayable.  Especially when I'm playing a game that has the graphical quality of a cartoon.

As an experiment go play so DMC (the reboot on PS3) and then play it on PC. The difference due to FPS alone is staggering. 

 
 
 
 
 
 

The science is true. Anything above 30 fps is undetectable by the human eye.

What is the issue here is that on console a game IS locked at 30fps and won't go under it due to careful optimization.

On PC however, you can have 30 fps and perfect smooth gameplay.

The reality however is, that PC games, especially MMO's aren't exactly known to be well optimized and framerates fluctuate greatly, like when you suddenly enter an area With lots of assets (city hub) or suddenly have a lot of players enter you FOV.

So if you run at around 30 FPS and suddenly have the above happening, Your FPS will suddenly drop 10+ frames and that is causing the stutter, because you go below the 20 FPS.

The difference With running at 60 FPS is that your framerate will never drop below 30 FPS and thus you perceive a smoother gameplay without stuttering.

THAT is the difference! And nothing else.

As long as you stay above 30 FPS you will perceive smooth gameplay.

30 or 60 FPS won't be noticable. It's the fluctuations you notice and that's why higher FPS is preferable. So you can cope with the fluctuations, without noticing it.

 
 
  Nephaerius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1465

6/12/14 2:50:21 PM#54
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Nephaerius
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Nephaerius
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Nobody I'm my guild has any problems with performance now as far as I am aware, things have gradually improved,. I'm at med settings now with a phenom 955 @3.4 and 460 , and I get a steady 30 now (I've capped @ 30) carbine hav aknowledged issues and that's allways a good thing.

If I was you I would consider myself having performance problems.  I can play the game just fine and get a solid 30-45 FPS the problem is I should be easily hitting double that number with the graphical fidelity in this game.  There's no reason a game like ESO runs at a solid 60-80FPS even with 100 players on my screen and WS's engine chokes so hard.  The other joke is I can turn everything to Very Low and it hardly makes a difference performance wise compared to Very High or w/e it is.

The human eye (generally) can't perceive a difference past around 25-30 fps.  Hence why games like Halo 3 are locked at 30fps, and why movies are 24fps.  So... not sure what kind of eyes you are using or why you need it to have dramatically more FPS than a human can even see but... yeah...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

 

First in case you don't know that data about the human eye is totally false so you may want to stop spreading misinformation and siting wikipedia as your point of reference.  For starters your eyeball is not a camera and doesn't see in Frames Per Second so.....

Moving on I have to guess it's been your misfortune to play on a toaster your whole life because if you play a game at 60FPS and 30FPS it's impossible to tell me you don't notice the difference.  It's easily noticable.  Now if you want to compare 60 FPS to 120FPS sure there's little if any difference unless you have a 120hz refresh rate on your monitor. It's cool if you don't mind 30 FPS but for me that's basically unplayable.  Especially when I'm playing a game that has the graphical quality of a cartoon.

As an experiment go play so DMC (the reboot on PS3) and then play it on PC. The difference due to FPS alone is staggering. 

 
 
 
 
 
 

The science is true. Anything above 30 fps is undetectable by the human eye.

What is the issue here is that on console the game IS locked at 30fps and won't go under it due to careful optimization.

On PC however, you can have 30 fps and perfect smooth gameplay.

The reality however is, that PC games, especially MMO's aren't exactly known to be well optimized and framerates fluctuate greatly, like when you suddenly enter an area With lots of assets (city hub) or suddenly have a lot of players enter you FOV.

So if you run at around 30 FPS and suddenly have the above happening, Your FPS will suddenly drop 10+ frames and that is causing the stutter, because you go below the 20 FPS.

The difference With running at 60 FPS is that your framerate will never drop below 30 FPS and thus you perceive a smoother gameplay without stuttering.

THAT is the difference! And nothing else.

*sigh* I'm glad they taught you in high school science class that this is true but it's not.  It's like an old wive's tale.  A quick google search will hopefully alleviate you of the misinformation.  I'm not new to gaming at 32 years old I know how frame rates and stuff work. A solid 60 FPS always looks significantly smoother and better than a solid 30FPS.  I don't have special eye balls either.  This is just a fact.  Your eyeball is not a camera.  It does not see FPS at all.  That is not a relevant comparison to say your eye can see X FPS because in fact it sees 0 FPS cause it's not seeing FPS at all. 

I gave you an example of a PS3 game locked at a steady 30FPS and when compared to the PC version at 60 FPS the PS3 version stutters all day long it's horrendous.  I can't really continue this conversation because you're operating on misinformation.  It's basically me trying to discuss the color of the sky with you while you insist that the sky doesn't even exist. 

Edit: Double checked with several MD's (I work in a hospital) yeah your eye only seeing 30 FPS is BS.

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  MMOManiacs

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/07
Posts: 194

6/12/14 2:51:19 PM#55
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Nephaerius
Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Nephaerius
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Nobody I'm my guild has any problems with performance now as far as I am aware, things have gradually improved,. I'm at med settings now with a phenom 955 @3.4 and 460 , and I get a steady 30 now (I've capped @ 30) carbine hav aknowledged issues and that's allways a good thing.

If I was you I would consider myself having performance problems.  I can play the game just fine and get a solid 30-45 FPS the problem is I should be easily hitting double that number with the graphical fidelity in this game.  There's no reason a game like ESO runs at a solid 60-80FPS even with 100 players on my screen and WS's engine chokes so hard.  The other joke is I can turn everything to Very Low and it hardly makes a difference performance wise compared to Very High or w/e it is.

The human eye (generally) can't perceive a difference past around 25-30 fps.  Hence why games like Halo 3 are locked at 30fps, and why movies are 24fps.  So... not sure what kind of eyes you are using or why you need it to have dramatically more FPS than a human can even see but... yeah...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

 

First in case you don't know that data about the human eye is totally false so you may want to stop spreading misinformation and siting wikipedia as your point of reference.  For starters your eyeball is not a camera and doesn't see in Frames Per Second so.....

Moving on I have to guess it's been your misfortune to play on a toaster your whole life because if you play a game at 60FPS and 30FPS it's impossible to tell me you don't notice the difference.  It's easily noticable.  Now if you want to compare 60 FPS to 120FPS sure there's little if any difference unless you have a 120hz refresh rate on your monitor. It's cool if you don't mind 30 FPS but for me that's basically unplayable.  Especially when I'm playing a game that has the graphical quality of a cartoon.

As an experiment go play so DMC (the reboot on PS3) and then play it on PC. The difference due to FPS alone is staggering. 

 
 
 
 
 
 

The science is true. Anything above 30 fps is undetectable by the human eye.

What is the issue here is that on console a game IS locked at 30fps and won't go under it due to careful optimization.

On PC however, you can have 30 fps and perfect smooth gameplay.

The reality however is, that PC games, especially MMO's aren't exactly known to be well optimized and framerates fluctuate greatly, like when you suddenly enter an area With lots of assets (city hub) or suddenly have a lot of players enter you FOV.

So if you run at around 30 FPS and suddenly have the above happening, Your FPS will suddenly drop 10+ frames and that is causing the stutter, because you go below the 20 FPS.

The difference With running at 60 FPS is that your framerate will never drop below 30 FPS and thus you perceive a smoother gameplay without stuttering.

THAT is the difference! And nothing else.

As long as you stay above 30 FPS you will perceive smooth gameplay.

30 or 60 FPS won't be noticable. It's the fluctuations you notice and that's why higher FPS is preferable. So you can cope with the fluctuations, without noticing it.

 
 

http://boallen.com/fps-compare.html

Are you telling me that your eyes cant detected the difference in fuidity between 30fps and 60fps?

  Nephaerius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1465

6/12/14 2:52:41 PM#56
Originally posted by MMOManiacs

http://boallen.com/fps-compare.html

Are you telling me that your eyes cant detected the difference in fuidity between 30fps and 60fps?

Exactly.  Thank you.  This guy gets it.

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3347

6/12/14 3:01:19 PM#57
It's well documented that you can tell the difference, the key point is that a smooth 30 is good enough that it doesn't distract, more is nicer though, especially with movement.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1760

6/12/14 3:49:28 PM#58
Originally posted by Nephaerius

  Your eyeball is not a camera.  It does not see FPS at all.  That is not a relevant comparison to say your eye can see X FPS because in fact it sees 0 FPS cause it's not seeing FPS at all. 

They use FPS as a measurement equivalent for what the eyes can see and the brain processes.  Just like cars aren't actually pulled by horses but their engines are still measured by horsepower.   So it's true that the human eye and brain processes the images it sees at the equivalent of 24-30 fps.

That being said, like you I still see a "difference" with higher FPS settings in games as well.

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  Laughing-man

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3384

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

6/12/14 4:23:08 PM#59
Originally posted by Nephaerius

First in case you don't know that data about the human eye is totally false so you may want to stop spreading misinformation and siting wikipedia as your point of reference.  For starters your eyeball is not a camera and doesn't see in Frames Per Second so.....

Moving on I have to guess it's been your misfortune to play on a toaster your whole life because if you play a game at 60FPS and 30FPS it's impossible to tell me you don't notice the difference.  It's easily noticable.  Now if you want to compare 60 FPS to 120FPS sure there's little if any difference unless you have a 120hz refresh rate on your monitor. It's cool if you don't mind 30 FPS but for me that's basically unplayable.  Especially when I'm playing a game that has the graphical quality of a cartoon.

As an experiment go play so DMC (the reboot on PS3) and then play it on PC. The difference due to FPS alone is staggering. 

 
 
 
 
 
 

Firstly, the wiki I linked is VERY cleared sourced, did you bother to even read it before you rejected it off handedly?  Prejudiced much?

Secondly, why are you so hostile?

Thirdly, I know it's not false, as in college, when I took biology, we learned this exact thing, 25-30 FPS, human eye.  Yep.

continue on with your anecdotal 'completely true' evidence. 

Heh.

  Laughing-man

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3384

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

6/12/14 4:24:27 PM#60
Originally posted by MMOManiacs

Are you saying that you don't see a difference?

http://boallen.com/fps-compare.html

Again, as I said above this, no not really.

If so, a very very tiny slight difference, one that I wouldn't even notice unless someone pointed it out.

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