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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » People say " an MMORPG, ESO was not able to be 'Skyrim online". But why couldnt it?

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56 posts found
  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5343

6/12/14 12:38:26 AM#41
Originally posted by Bruhza
Originally posted by MMOExposed
People say " an MMORPG, ESO was not able to be 'Skyrim online". But why couldnt it?

Because ESO is linear progression. Skyrim is not.

 

I think this is where much of the disappointment comes from when thinking or playing ESO.....it just isn't Elder Scrolls.

 

I'm just glad this doesn't stop the devs from making the single player games........so a bit better handled than that mess SWTOR created.

It doesn't affect Bethesda, they recently released Wolfenstein after all, Zenimax Media are pretty much the investment company, and are really totally seperate to Bethesda, what happened with ESO, is Bethesda have always said that they had no interest in making an MMO, their full on making the single player games after all, not just Elder Scrolls, but other IP's also, as there was no conflict of interest, Zenimax put together another 'team' to create Elder Scrolls Online, the game is 'published' by Bethesda, but its pretty much an 'in name only' kind of thing, Bethesda's involvement in ESO is practically Zero.

So we will hopefully still be getting some great games from Bethesda, though when the next Elder Scrolls game will be released, no idea, but chances are, it will probably sell very well, as usual

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5282

6/12/14 5:08:22 AM#42
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by MMOExposed

But the thing is, Why cant all the appeals of Skyrim/TES be done for large scale gaming in a MMO?

 

I haven't been banned in a while so let's get that ball rolling...

 

I find it hard to believe that after all the threads you have posted and participated in that you do not already know the answer to that question. It is genuinely hard to tell whether you are trolling or just truly incapable of learning. 

 

I have not been banned in a while either. So I will ask, what has happened to MMOExpossed? I have seen this guys posts way back, they could be insightful etc. He always liked a question, but now I am not sure it is the same poster. Now he seems to have turned into a question posing bot. What is going on?

 

  Uhwop

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1664

6/12/14 7:04:12 AM#43
Originally posted by kakasaki
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by Uhwop

Developers needed an excuse to justify making the game a standard theme park. 

Apparently a lot of gamers around here latched onto it.  

Or maybe unrealistic community members have absolutely no clue to the development challenges involved to do a Skyrim online and how everyone's computer would be crippled with today's technology in 99.9% of homes if you tried to play a Skyrim online with hundreds around you.

Except that mortal online exists? 

ESO could have been mortal online with a real budget, ruleset servers, and pve.  They were perfectly clear in the first game informer article that they chose not to make it more like the elder scrolls games because mmo players wouldn't understand it.   

They really said that.  

 

Really, you bring up Mortal Online? Well, we all know what a runaway hit that game turned out to be... 

The quality of the game has nothing to do with the "developmental challenges" that a lot of people around here keep saying prevented ESO from being more like an ES game. 

The debs never said that they were making the game the way they did because its "not possible", gamers are the ones that keep making up what is and isn't possible.  As if there aren't a lot of games out there that proves it is. 

How many times are people going top post that its not possible to do ES combat in an MMO, even though mortal online, face of mankind, darkfall, planets idle, defiance all exist. 

They Said themselves that the reason they didn't make it like sky rim or oblivion is because mmo players wouldn't understand how to play it.  

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3883

6/12/14 11:40:51 AM#44
Originally posted by Fuerchtegott

Yesterday, at the Northern coasts of Skyrim, I was standing in front of a cave which, as I had found out earlier, was a bandit hideout. On my journey to this cave I had to fight some wolves and had contracted rocky joints. I was tired and cold, so I decided to make a fire and put up a tent to rest for a while. The next morning, after stilling my thirst and hunger, I did not really feel well rested. Yet, I decided to enter the cave quickly and dispatch the bandits. I could cure myself afterwards.

I did not realize, though, that my rocky joints had progressed, and after a while I contracted another disease, it might have been brain rot. Still, how hard can a couple of bandits in a cave really be? Unfortunately, the cave was much larger than I thought. Fighting the bandits was challenging but not too hard. Fighting my diseases was impossible. I had neither fish soup nor curing potions with me. So, in the middle of the cave, my armor bore me down as if I was carrying the mountain I was crawling through and I felt tired and exhausted again. I had to admit that I needed to cure myself first, before I could continue to fight the bandits. So, I crawled out of the cave, got on my horse, tried not to freeze to death until I made it to the first settlement with a shop and a tavern. I got rid of the diseases, ate and drank and slept in a nice warm cosy bed. Then the next day, i made it the last day for some cave dwelling bandits.

This is why ESO is not Skyrim Online. Every little action I did, I actually had to do. I had to eat and drink, otherwise I would have to suffer the consequences, I had to rest, I had to take care of the freezing temperatures outside. On top of that I had to fight my enemy. For a roleplayer, Skyrim is heaven.

First of all, you didn't do anything other than move your mouse pointer around the screen and pressed a couple of keys. But more importantly everyone has a different level of tolerance for non-essential minutiae: too little of it and immersion suffers... too much of it and it becomes its own little meta game that isn't everyone's cup of tea.

 

There is a reason why most games, no matter how detailed they try to be, do not try to simulate brushing your teeth, dressing one sock at a time, peeing or crapping: most people are perfectly fine leaving those more mundane things as abstractions.

 

But most important of all is the fact that the "skyrimness" of Skyrim is in the eye of the beholder. I doubt that any 2 players would agree on which features are essential and which you can do without.

 

However, I think that one thing we can all agree on is that in Skyrim and all other ES games there was a considerable degree of freedom about what you could do next, and in what order you wanted to do it. To a large extent that degree of freedom can be available in MMOs. Even within the themepark subcategory there are examples of more choice or less choice. Even something as simple as having 2 or 3 different level-gated zones to choose from to quest in (as in WOW's early levels) can give you the impression that you have more choice.

 

This, I believe is where ESO could have been more "skyrimmy." Making PVP, dungeon running, grinding, crafting and questing equally viable as a leveling method from level 1 to VR12 should have been a priority and it obviously wasn't. If it had been. that would have gone a long way toward satisfying most players' desire to play like they want to play... not exactly like in Skyrim, but more satisfying in a similar way.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1374

6/12/14 2:16:53 PM#45
Originally posted by Iselin

 

First of all, you didn't do anything other than move your mouse pointer around the screen and pressed a couple of keys. But more importantly everyone has a different level of tolerance for non-essential minutiae: too little of it and immersion suffers... too much of it and it becomes its own little meta game that isn't everyone's cup of tea.

 

There is a reason why most games, no matter how detailed they try to be, do not try to simulate brushing your teeth, dressing one sock at a time, peeing or crapping: most people are perfectly fine leaving those more mundane things as abstractions.

 

But most important of all is the fact that the "skyrimness" of Skyrim is in the eye of the beholder. I doubt that any 2 players would agree on which features are essential and which you can do without.

 

However, I think that one thing we can all agree on is that in Skyrim and all other ES games there was a considerable degree of freedom about what you could do next, and in what order you wanted to do it. To a large extent that degree of freedom can be available in MMOs. Even within the themepark subcategory there are examples of more choice or less choice. Even something as simple as having 2 or 3 different level-gated zones to choose from to quest in (as in WOW's early levels) can give you the impression that you have more choice.

 

This, I believe is where ESO could have been more "skyrimmy." Making PVP, dungeon running, grinding, crafting and questing equally viable as a leveling method from level 1 to VR12 should have been a priority and it obviously wasn't. If it had been. that would have gone a long way toward satisfying most players' desire to play like they want to play... not exactly like in Skyrim, but more satisfying in a similar way.

+1.

Then again maybe TESO should be mundane .... The Sims is hugely successful after all and it has ze brushing of the teeth ... nah ..... 

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

6/12/14 2:21:14 PM#46
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by Iselin

First of all, you didn't do anything other than move your mouse pointer around the screen and pressed a couple of keys. But more importantly everyone has a different level of tolerance for non-essential minutiae: too little of it and immersion suffers... too much of it and it becomes its own little meta game that isn't everyone's cup of tea.

There is a reason why most games, no matter how detailed they try to be, do not try to simulate brushing your teeth, dressing one sock at a time, peeing or crapping: most people are perfectly fine leaving those more mundane things as abstractions.

But most important of all is the fact that the "skyrimness" of Skyrim is in the eye of the beholder. I doubt that any 2 players would agree on which features are essential and which you can do without.

However, I think that one thing we can all agree on is that in Skyrim and all other ES games there was a considerable degree of freedom about what you could do next, and in what order you wanted to do it. To a large extent that degree of freedom can be available in MMOs. Even within the themepark subcategory there are examples of more choice or less choice. Even something as simple as having 2 or 3 different level-gated zones to choose from to quest in (as in WOW's early levels) can give you the impression that you have more choice.

This, I believe is where ESO could have been more "skyrimmy." Making PVP, dungeon running, grinding, crafting and questing equally viable as a leveling method from level 1 to VR12 should have been a priority and it obviously wasn't. If it had been. that would have gone a long way toward satisfying most players' desire to play like they want to play... not exactly like in Skyrim, but more satisfying in a similar way.

+1.

Then again maybe TESO should be mundane .... The Sims is hugely successful after all and it has ze brushing of the teeth ... nah ..... 

+1 from me, too.

Gervaise1, it is interesting that you should bring up The Sims, as their game was wildly successful but the MMO version, The Sims Online, did very poorly despite it being rather faithful to the original game. 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Pilnkplonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

6/12/14 2:33:06 PM#47

Lack of courage and imagination?

Duh, no it's not a single player game... so what? Real life is pretty much sandbox last time I checked, with 7+ billion concurrent players on the same server.

Meh... they deserve to crash and burn. Damn shame what could have been done with it.

  ButeoRegalis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/02/10
Posts: 426

6/12/14 2:49:12 PM#48

So, would ESO have been better if ZOS had implemented it the way Guild Wars 1 is?

That is, MMO-like cities, to find main quests and party members, but once you step out you are in your own instance. That way you could actually have made the story according to each person, the part y lead, and they rest tag along.

  ShortyBible

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/10
Posts: 306

6/12/14 2:56:51 PM#49
Originally posted by Phry
I think the problem really is that they were not really trying to create an Elder Scrolls game, but 'remake' DAoC using the IP, they failed at it miserably, though that might be due to the combination of game engines they used, and possibly the poor implementation of the server technology. But also, even as a remake of DAoC it failed to utilise the features that actually made DAoC popular in its time, perhaps its a poor understanding of either IP that caused the game to fail as badly as it did, the various bugs and glitches however certainly didn't help things.

/This

http://www.entropiapartners.com/?r=22415

  Innkwell

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/14
Posts: 56

6/12/14 2:59:13 PM#50

I see a lot of people relating their experiences of Skyrim and I find it amusing that you leave out some crucial facts.

 The game on release with no mods was nowhere near as impressive as the picture you are painting for everyone who hasn't played it.

Please if you are going to complain about ESO, use the same level of understanding that sometimes things are not as good when they first come out.

 Not to say that my Skyrim experience was shit when I played it as vanilla, but you cant do half of the things some of you are describing without modding heavily.

In closing, I think people forgot how much hatred ES fans had for Skyrim when it was first released since it changed almost every facet of game-play outside of melee combat.

  Joeyjojoshabadu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/14
Posts: 99

6/12/14 4:22:56 PM#51
Originally posted by Innkwell

I see a lot of people relating their experiences of Skyrim and I find it amusing that you leave out some crucial facts.

 The game on release with no mods was nowhere near as impressive as the picture you are painting for everyone who hasn't played it.

Please if you are going to complain about ESO, use the same level of understanding that sometimes things are not as good when they first come out.

 Not to say that my Skyrim experience was shit when I played it as vanilla, but you cant do half of the things some of you are describing without modding heavily.

In closing, I think people forgot how much hatred ES fans had for Skyrim when it was first released since it changed almost every facet of game-play outside of melee combat.

I only partially agree with this. Yes Skyrim was vastly improved with mods. But it still had much better reviews 'out of the box' and was generally received better than ESO was.

 

  JWillCHS

Novice Member

Joined: 2/01/06
Posts: 57

I taste like chocolate.

6/12/14 4:50:35 PM#52

I saw some very good ideas on how to make ESO feel more open-ended and less linear. Progressing to level 50 and through veteran ranks in other ways like using trade skills would have been a great idea considering how in-depth the crafting system was.

Why have an Alliance War between 3 preset factions when player-created guilds and alliances would have been enough in Cyrodiil. That would also eliminate the boundaries between factions zones. Now you have a variety of areas to progress through for each level bracket, essentially choosing where to level first. And in my opinion making your adventure more diverse. Being able to choose any race from the beginning and choosing your starting area.

I will admit that in older MMORPGs, especially in Asheron's Call, exploration and danger were very important to creating a open-world experience. To start in one place and go off in any direction[regardless of the consequence] is one reason why I love Asheron's Call and a single player game like Skyrim. In AC, there was a town called Holtburg you could start at. A person could look out to the river below and cross it. On the other side of the river there was an opening to a forest and you could choose to enter it. As you kept heading further into the woods, in the distant landscape you could see Arwic Mountain about 15 to 20 minutes away on foot. By this time night has come and you can't see !@#$%. You're a newb, so you're having trouble navigating through the forest. Plus the mobs are progressively getting tougher. In fact, attracting aggro is certain death.

Finally you made it to Arwic Mountain, but everything that is set out to kill you here is 17 levels higher. Snow begins to fall as you scale the rocks. You realize you're in a bad place and you don't know how to get back to Holtburg. Not to mention, you've been alone for the pass 2 hours! But wait! It's a group of players and they're willing to escort you back to a town called Arwic. You find a portal in a mountain pass and it leaves you to a safe haven where there are tons of players!

What you failed to realize is that you took the hard way to Arwic since there's a road to it from Holtburg. In fact it's much safer. This was my first experience with Asheron's Call. Surprisingly, I've had similar TES stories.

  sumdumguy1

Elite Member

Joined: 2/20/11
Posts: 785

6/12/14 4:53:52 PM#53
Originally posted by MMOExposed
People say " an MMORPG, ESO was not able to be 'Skyrim online". But why couldnt it?

I heard the Nords wanted too much compensation and they couldn't make it work.  :)

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1374

6/12/14 5:08:20 PM#54
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by Iselin

<snip>

There is a reason why most games, no matter how detailed they try to be, do not try to simulate brushing your teeth, dressing one sock at a time, peeing or crapping: most people are perfectly fine leaving those more mundane things as abstractions.

<snip>

+1.

Then again maybe TESO should be mundane .... The Sims is hugely successful after all and it has ze brushing of the teeth ... nah ..... 

+1 from me, too.

Gervaise1, it is interesting that you should bring up The Sims, as their game was wildly successful but the MMO version, The Sims Online, did very poorly despite it being rather faithful to the original game. 

Indeed as EA said they were disappointed with sales over its lifetime - I was really picking up on Iselin's comment about "most games". Then got told you can brush your teeth in The Sims (my wife plays). not a franchise I personally play I must confess) but my wife does.

I believe that EA learnt a lot though from The Sims Online. Not least what people will and will not pay for. Resulting in them sticking with a tried and trusted formula: B2P + DLC.

So The Sims 3 has had 11 full expansions, 9 stuff packs and the Medieval/Pirates spin off since it launched just about 5 years ago. The equivalent of about 3 years of subscription income. And this September The Sims 4 will do it all again. The very same financial model that worked for other ES titles.

  Orious

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 360

6/12/14 5:22:40 PM#55

It really depends...

Some people like the ES saga for its breadth of lore. If that's the case, you'll be pretty happy with TESO.

Some people like the ES saga for its breadth of classes/skill choises. If that's the case, you'll find better combinations in TESO than in Skyrim...lol. Way better.

Some people like the Single Player ambiance of the ES saga. You probably won't get this in TESO. Although people say it's not "social" there are tons of people running around assisting you with things. You're never alone really.

Some people want the same Combat. I actually feel a lot more nimble in TESO than in say Skyrim. My character acts exactly how I want it to.

And probably the biggest things is this....

Some people like the infinite amount of choices in the ES saga. You'll get more choices than most themeparks, but an infinite amount isn't possible here...because people don't like infinite choice in their MMORPGs nowadays. BUT on that note...the devs do want to add pick-pocketing/a karma system/ and player guards in cities. That stuff will greatly improve player choice and social aspects. The game might have been more fun for me if it emulated the freedom in single-player MMOS, but the masses would have HATED getting killed and griefed all the time. Am I right? The game would have utterly TANKED.

Skyrim Online isn't an MMO. It'd be a coop. I think the next Single-player ES game will probably have a co-op, but it won't be an MMO.

 

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3180

6/12/14 5:25:24 PM#56
People that wanted Skyrim Online would cry even more about Phasing.  Phasing is the only way to make ESO feel like Skyrim, except they would have to make every area phased.  People cry if you don't phase to make it like Skyrim, people cry if you do make it phased to make it like Skyrim...people just need to play the game if they like it or stfu already lol.
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