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General Discussion  » People say " an MMORPG, ESO was not able to be 'Skyrim online". But why couldnt it?

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56 posts found
  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6213

 
OP  6/11/14 1:57:11 AM#1
People say " an MMORPG, ESO was not able to be 'Skyrim online". But why couldnt it?

  brEEziex

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/08
Posts: 23

6/11/14 1:58:44 AM#2
skyrim was not meant to be an mmorpg
  artemisentr4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1442

6/11/14 3:10:34 AM#3
Skyrim is a game that is all about you the player. Your choices effect everything because you are the only real player. There can only be one story and one way it plays out. How can thousands of players in skyrim, all making different choices, all be the main character? They can't of coarse. So you make changes to allow for other players each doing their own thing. ESO tried to add meaning to questing with phasing, but it made grouping difficult. They tried to please both the skyrim fans and MMO fans. That never works.

A MMO should be just a would changing on it's own regardless of the players in it. Players should only be able to make small changes as they explore and interact. A themepark doesn't let you make changes at all. It is really just a personal story based on the way you quest. Others can be there with you. But the story is for only one player. Even in group dungeons and raids. Grouping is irrelavent to the story. It is just a way to enteract and be social.

A sandbox isn't really that different either. It allows for freedom and stories based on player imagination and partisipation. But it is still only a story for the player behind the keyboard. Nothing really changes at all in the world.

I personally like ESO. I am ok with the questing, VR leveling and the fun I continue to have in game. But I went in expecting a solo game with organic, non-social grouping. With ES like questing with a lot of other players all doing the same thing. A hybrid between the ES SPGs and current MMOs. If you expect anything else, you will be disapointed.

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5504

6/11/14 3:19:42 AM#4
I think the problem really is that they were not really trying to create an Elder Scrolls game, but 'remake' DAoC using the IP, they failed at it miserably, though that might be due to the combination of game engines they used, and possibly the poor implementation of the server technology. But also, even as a remake of DAoC it failed to utilise the features that actually made DAoC popular in its time, perhaps its a poor understanding of either IP that caused the game to fail as badly as it did, the various bugs and glitches however certainly didn't help things.
  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5394

6/11/14 3:41:17 AM#5
What 'people'?
  eindinbloch

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/05/08
Posts: 59

6/11/14 3:45:28 AM#6
Because it was made by the "man".
  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5504

6/11/14 3:51:45 AM#7
[mod edit]

It is after all, far too late to change things at this juncture, and dwelling on what might have been helps nobody

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1401

6/11/14 3:58:30 AM#8
They could do it but it would have to be highly instanced/phased. I don't want to go to Riften and find players have butchered most of the NPCs that live there.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5504

6/11/14 4:02:12 AM#9
Originally posted by immodium
They could do it but it would have to be highly instanced/phased. I don't want to go to Riften and find players have butchered most of the NPCs that live there.

ESO is already massively instanced and phased so more would only be even worse, given the current grouping issues, which seem to be a corollary rather than a glitch.

  shukolade

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/07/07
Posts: 30

6/11/14 4:05:53 AM#10
Originally posted by Phry
I think the problem really is that they were not really trying to create an Elder Scrolls game, but 'remake' DAoC using the IP, they failed at it miserably, though that might be due to the combination of game engines they used, and possibly the poor implementation of the server technology. But also, even as a remake of DAoC it failed to utilise the features that actually made DAoC popular in its time, perhaps its a poor understanding of either IP that caused the game to fail as badly as it did, the various bugs and glitches however certainly didn't help things.

I am personally offended that you compare ESO to DAoC even remotely.

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1401

6/11/14 4:19:00 AM#11
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by immodium
They could do it but it would have to be highly instanced/phased. I don't want to go to Riften and find players have butchered most of the NPCs that live there.

ESO is already massively instanced and phased so more would only be even worse, given the current grouping issues, which seem to be a corollary rather than a glitch.

Grouping in ESO can be a pain due to the main story phasing. However, if the phasing was implemented in a way to follow players play styles, what they do in the 'world' I think it would be great. I'd be grouping with players that play the same way I do.

  Fuerchtegott

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 79

6/11/14 4:21:50 AM#12

Yesterday, at the Northern coasts of Skyrim, I was standing in front of a cave which, as I had found out earlier, was a bandit hideout. On my journey to this cave I had to fight some wolves and had contracted rocky joints. I was tired and cold, so I decided to make a fire and put up a tent to rest for a while. The next morning, after stilling my thirst and hunger, I did not really feel well rested. Yet, I decided to enter the cave quickly and dispatch the bandits. I could cure myself afterwards.

I did not realize, though, that my rocky joints had progressed, and after a while I contracted another disease, it might have been brain rot. Still, how hard can a couple of bandits in a cave really be? Unfortunately, the cave was much larger than I thought. Fighting the bandits was challenging but not too hard. Fighting my diseases was impossible. I had neither fish soup nor curing potions with me. So, in the middle of the cave, my armor bore me down as if I was carrying the mountain I was crawling through and I felt tired and exhausted again. I had to admit that I needed to cure myself first, before I could continue to fight the bandits. So, I crawled out of the cave, got on my horse, tried not to freeze to death until I made it to the first settlement with a shop and a tavern. I got rid of the diseases, ate and drank and slept in a nice warm cosy bed. Then the next day, i made it the last day for some cave dwelling bandits.

This is why ESO is not Skyrim Online. Every little action I did, I actually had to do. I had to eat and drink, otherwise I would have to suffer the consequences, I had to rest, I had to take care of the freezing temperatures outside. On top of that I had to fight my enemy. For a roleplayer, Skyrim is heaven.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7475

6/11/14 4:30:55 AM#13


Originally posted by Fuerchtegott

This is why ESO is not Skyrim Online. Every little action I did, I actually had to do. I had to eat and drink, otherwise I would have to suffer the consequences, I had to rest, I had to take care of the freezing temperatures outside. On top of that I had to fight my enemy. For a roleplayer, Skyrim is heaven.

That has ntohing to do with Skyrim either...it's your version of superbly altered something that was once called Skyrim.

People need to stop making generalizations based on their subjective perception, experience and wishful thinking, it makes posting on public forums moot...

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1401

6/11/14 4:34:03 AM#14
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Fuerchtegott

This is why ESO is not Skyrim Online. Every little action I did, I actually had to do. I had to eat and drink, otherwise I would have to suffer the consequences, I had to rest, I had to take care of the freezing temperatures outside. On top of that I had to fight my enemy. For a roleplayer, Skyrim is heaven.

 

That has ntohing to do with Skyrim either...it's your version of superbly altered something that was once called Skyrim.

People need to stop making generalizations based on their subjective perception, experience and wishful thinking, it makes posting on public forums moot...

There's a survival mod for Skyrim where you had to eat,drink and sleep. Another dealing with temperature needs. Your right, vanilla Skyrim didn't have those mechanics.

  iixviiiix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 593

6/11/14 4:43:09 AM#15
Originally posted by immodium
They could do it but it would have to be highly instanced/phased. I don't want to go to Riften and find players have butchered most of the NPCs that live there.

But it fun to butchered the guards in Riften , they will re-spawn anyway,

if it MMO then just add 'essential' to NPC with name and add bunch of nameless Riften citizens that will disappears and spawn for theft guild / black brotherhood quests .

 

The best answer for "why" question is , they don't make the ESO for TES fan or people who enjoy TES. They just want to use the IP like how  blizzard used warcraft to create complete new game.

 

It just the idea don't work well as the plan.

Simple because WOW is MMO-RPG and Warcraft games is RTS so there are no compare.

WOW It more like complete new RP game used RTS IP.

But TES games are RPG and ESO is [MMO]RPG . That's why people expect ESO will like TES games with MMO element ,

 

 

 

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1401

6/11/14 4:51:34 AM#16
Originally posted by iixviiiix
Originally posted by immodium
They could do it but it would have to be highly instanced/phased. I don't want to go to Riften and find players have butchered most of the NPCs that live there.

But it fun to butchered the guards in Riften , they will re-spawn anyway,

if it MMO then just add 'essential' to NPC with name and add bunch of nameless Riften citizens that will disappears and spawn for theft guild / black brotherhood quests .

 

The best answer for "why" question is , they don't make the ESO for TES fan or people who enjoy TES. They just want to use the IP like how  blizzard used warcraft to create complete new game.

 

It just the idea don't work well as the plan.

Simple because WOW is MMO-RPG and Warcraft games is RTS so there are no compare.

WOW It more like complete new RP game used RTS IP.

But TES games are RPG and ESO is [MMO]RPG . That's why people expect ESO will like TES games with MMO element ,

 

 

 

It's not just guards you could kill. You could kill the majority of named NPCs, even ones with side quests and they wouldn't respawn.

If the respawn timers are like that of an MMO, say 30 seconds in some cases then it may not be a problem. I could see the players who like to kill them not liking that though.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6213

 
OP  6/11/14 5:15:27 AM#17
Originally posted by artemisentr4
Skyrim is a game that is all about you the player. Your choices effect everything because you are the only real player. There can only be one story and one way it plays out. How can thousands of players in skyrim, all making different choices, all be the main character? They can't of coarse. So you make changes to allow for other players each doing their own thing. ESO tried to add meaning to questing with phasing, but it made grouping difficult. They tried to please both the skyrim fans and MMO fans. That never works.

A MMO should be just a would changing on it's own regardless of the players in it. Players should only be able to make small changes as they explore and interact. A themepark doesn't let you make changes at all. It is really just a personal story based on the way you quest. Others can be there with you. But the story is for only one player. Even in group dungeons and raids. Grouping is irrelavent to the story. It is just a way to enteract and be social.

A sandbox isn't really that different either. It allows for freedom and stories based on player imagination and partisipation. But it is still only a story for the player behind the keyboard. Nothing really changes at all in the world.

I personally like ESO. I am ok with the questing, VR leveling and the fun I continue to have in game. But I went in expecting a solo game with organic, non-social grouping. With ES like questing with a lot of other players all doing the same thing. A hybrid between the ES SPGs and current MMOs. If you expect anything else, you will be disapointed.

But the thing is, Why cant all the appeals of Skyrim/TES be done for large scale gaming in a MMO?

  sunshadow21

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/04
Posts: 355

6/11/14 5:43:51 AM#18
Originally posted by MMOExposed

But the thing is, Why cant all the appeals of Skyrim/TES be done for large scale gaming in a MMO?

The scale isn't the problem, the presence of other people in a perpetual environment is the difficulty. All it would take to ruin the game for a lot of people would be for one person to go on a NPC killing rampage in the name of what that one person considered to be fun and enjoyable. In a single player game like Skyrim, something like that is not a particular problem, because at worst, the player starts a new instance of the world with a new character. Even co-op multiplayer games can avoid most of the worst of these difficulties with few changes to the game itself, but a full MMO cannot without making significant changes to both the mechanics and the world as a whole.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3167

6/11/14 5:58:21 AM#19
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by artemisentr4
Skyrim is a game that is all about you the player. Your choices effect everything because you are the only real player. There can only be one story and one way it plays out. How can thousands of players in skyrim, all making different choices, all be the main character? They can't of coarse. So you make changes to allow for other players each doing their own thing. ESO tried to add meaning to questing with phasing, but it made grouping difficult. They tried to please both the skyrim fans and MMO fans. That never works.

...

But the thing is, Why cant all the appeals of Skyrim/TES be done for large scale gaming in a MMO?

The answer to your question is right there in the post you quoted.

 

In a single-player game, the story and the game world revolves arouind you, the only player. It means that when you kill the bandits in a cave, they stay dead. After a long time in the (Skyrim) game world, new NPC's may repopulate that cave. That gives you the feeling that you actually have an impact on the game world.

 

In an MMO, that cave has to almost instantly be repopulated, otherwise 10K other players will complain that there's no content. In a standard MMO, every player is the unique hero who will save the world. We all suspend our disbelief and take our turn to save the world. We can even watch the other heroes saving the world as we wait in the queue for our turn.

 

ZOS made a valiant attempt to change this required suspension of disbelief by actually permanently changing the world (from the perspective of the player) by using phasing. It solved one problem and created another, because grouping becomes very tricky when people exist in different "dimensions".

 

Skyrim allows the player to use their imagination to shape the game world and their actions. It reinforces that imagination by allowing consistent consequences. NPC's that are killed are not instantly respawned. Artifacts that are looted never respawn. A boss that is killed stays dead.

 

In Skyrim, everyone you see in the game world is "in character". NPC's only sprint when they need to, they don't run everywhere. There is nobody bunny-hopping around the market square while they wait for their friend to login. There is nobody spamming AOE flame attacks at the crowd around the banker NPC. There is no banker NPC.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7475

6/11/14 7:12:48 AM#20


Originally posted by MMOExposed

But the thing is, Why cant all the appeals of Skyrim/TES be done for large scale gaming in a MMO?


It's not as much about "can't" but "should".

Why should ESO be Skyrim Online? No reason it should be.

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