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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Poll: Wildstar P2W [pay to win]?

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163 posts found
  rygar218

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/09
Posts: 334

6/10/14 5:34:38 PM#61
Originally posted by Kopogero

What you fail to understand and many have told you is the fact that the "BEST" gear in t he game is bind on pickup. Meaning no matter how much money you have you will always need to work for the end game gear.  And say they did not have the credd system, people would still buy gold from 3rd party sights, i mean look at every other mmo out there its all the same with the gold sellers and Plvlers. NCsoft just cut out the middle person when it came to gold. not to mention CREDD is 20 bucks ..meaning it is more expensive then a sub.

Oh I clearly understand the concept what you don't understand is that WIldStar is not just about obtaining the "best" gear. And no, you are wrong when you say "no matter how much $ I have I will still need to work for the end game gear. You are clearly not familiar with "services".

You've clearly not seen how people pay to get "piloted" and obtain not just BOP(bind on pick up) best gears but BOP mounts, titles (both pvp and pve),  ranks in PvP/Battlegrounds and so forth for INGAME currency.

If there is illegal system in place that people can obtain things, again thats loss to the company itself for allowing such system be in place and there is a significant risk players have to take to go through such system.

NCSoft doesn't just cut out the middle person, they just prefer to be that person on top of asking its customers for box fee, monthly fee and expansion fee. The fact is more expensive just proves that there is more $ to be made by NCSoft (in their opinion), but again clearly the system they have going here clearly does not work with me since now not only I will never spend a dime for WildStar but I would never waste my time and participate in it even if it was free to play.

I guess by this statement you never plan on playing any online game ever again then? There will always be a 2ndary market weither it is offered by the game company itself or a 3rd party. Again Pay to win is not this. Pay to win is an advantage made by the company that clearly gives you a superior advantage over another player and is made by the same company that is running the game and that advantage is only gained through spending real life currency.

  Jeyhu

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/06
Posts: 87

6/10/14 5:42:54 PM#62
Originally posted by Kopogero

Firstly, lemme just say I haven't tried/bought or intend to buy/play WildStar and now with the C.R.E.D.D sadly won't be playing if/when it goes F2P as well.

Wildstar is a themepark MMORPG where in game curreny does not play a significant role since players will obtain the loot from bosses and to upgrade it won't be as costly) BUT in a themepark MMORPG where "collecting" plays a big role and is another crucial endgame feature I'm certain ingame currency will be on high demand to craft/own rare/expensive mounts, house items and whatever else they got there for collecting.

Quoting from Massively "C.R.E.D.D. is an in-game item that adds 30 days of play time to an account. Players can purchase one for $19.99 to sell on the exchange or purchase one from another player for in-game gold. Basically, it allows you to buy more game time with in-game currency or to gain more in-game currency with your real-world dollars."

So, basically a player who chooses to spend more $ will be easily bulking up ingame currency, thus the economy won't be existant. The saddest part is that NCsoft, CCP (with their plex system, which I think is same) believe that this will benefit them since they will encourage the "whales" players who willing to spend more $ in their cash shop to earn as much ingame currency as they please will be a good move.

Good thing I dodged WildStar and now I'm just more happy with my decision. As time goes by at least if companies employ these "tactics" I would yet to see them SHOW they actually care others than themself and allow its customers/players a chance for them too to SELL their currency/items for $ in a safe environment.

This community is welcome to share their opinion on this matter (especially if they disagree).

 

The feeling is mutual my friend.  You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.  Pay to win are games like APB:Reloaded and War Z or some random Korean MMO grinder.  Trust me when I say we're glad you aren't joining us in Wildstar cause you're obviously a douche bag.  CREDD is simliar to GEMS from Guild Wars 2.  I really don't see that much wrong with the concept.

  Kopogero

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/27/09
Posts: 616

 
OP  6/10/14 5:43:30 PM#63
Originally posted by rygar218
Originally posted by Kopogero

What you fail to understand and many have told you is the fact that the "BEST" gear in t he game is bind on pickup. Meaning no matter how much money you have you will always need to work for the end game gear.  And say they did not have the credd system, people would still buy gold from 3rd party sights, i mean look at every other mmo out there its all the same with the gold sellers and Plvlers. NCsoft just cut out the middle person when it came to gold. not to mention CREDD is 20 bucks ..meaning it is more expensive then a sub.

Oh I clearly understand the concept what you don't understand is that WIldStar is not just about obtaining the "best" gear. And no, you are wrong when you say "no matter how much $ I have I will still need to work for the end game gear. You are clearly not familiar with "services".

You've clearly not seen how people pay to get "piloted" and obtain not just BOP(bind on pick up) best gears but BOP mounts, titles (both pvp and pve),  ranks in PvP/Battlegrounds and so forth for INGAME currency.

If there is illegal system in place that people can obtain things, again thats loss to the company itself for allowing such system be in place and there is a significant risk players have to take to go through such system.

NCSoft doesn't just cut out the middle person, they just prefer to be that person on top of asking its customers for box fee, monthly fee and expansion fee. The fact is more expensive just proves that there is more $ to be made by NCSoft (in their opinion), but again clearly the system they have going here clearly does not work with me since now not only I will never spend a dime for WildStar but I would never waste my time and participate in it even if it was free to play.

I guess by this statement you never plan on playing any online game ever again then? There will always be a 2ndary market weither it is offered by the game company itself or a 3rd party. Again Pay to win is not this. Pay to win is an advantage made by the company that clearly gives you a superior advantage over another player and is made by the same company that is running the game and that advantage is only gained through spending real life currency.

Oh trust me I would surely play online games since not "ALWAYS" 2ndary markets existed. That market depends on a lot of factors, like the way the game is designed, how secure the game is and what kind of measures it takes to protect its product. There have been online games in the past that have done far superior job in this to the point that 99.5% of the playerbase would not even be aware that such market exist or even dare to engage in.

WildStar's design and the directions NCsoft choose with this C.R.E.D.D system COMBINED is what makes the game a P2W dominated experience. 

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  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4749

6/10/14 5:47:23 PM#64

Does no one understand wtf P2W means anymore?

Having a cash shop =/= pay to win.

Spending money =/= pay to win.

Having an advantage =/= pay to win.

The last one I continue to see people getting confused over, but the fact of the matter is that what constitutes an advantages is so widely subjective to the point that it makes the argument irrelevant. After all, it can be argued that having a subscription is 'pay to win' by that logic, as the entire game is locked behind a pay gate, and being able to play longer than those who can't afford it gives you an advantages. Same deal with collectors editions, head-starts, etc. etc. It makes no sense logically.

What pay to win actually means (before all this bandwagoning of the term as an excuse to bash cash shops) is that you're buying power. An example of this would be the game 'allods', in which you can literally buy stat advantages through the cash shop that give you a huge advantage over those without it.

So what does C.R.E.D.D. buy you that 'win's you the game? A subscription...

  Jeyhu

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/06
Posts: 87

6/10/14 5:47:36 PM#65
Originally posted by Kopogero
Originally posted by rygar218
Originally posted by Kopogero

What you fail to understand and many have told you is the fact that the "BEST" gear in t he game is bind on pickup. Meaning no matter how much money you have you will always need to work for the end game gear.  And say they did not have the credd system, people would still buy gold from 3rd party sights, i mean look at every other mmo out there its all the same with the gold sellers and Plvlers. NCsoft just cut out the middle person when it came to gold. not to mention CREDD is 20 bucks ..meaning it is more expensive then a sub.

Oh I clearly understand the concept what you don't understand is that WIldStar is not just about obtaining the "best" gear. And no, you are wrong when you say "no matter how much $ I have I will still need to work for the end game gear. You are clearly not familiar with "services".

You've clearly not seen how people pay to get "piloted" and obtain not just BOP(bind on pick up) best gears but BOP mounts, titles (both pvp and pve),  ranks in PvP/Battlegrounds and so forth for INGAME currency.

If there is illegal system in place that people can obtain things, again thats loss to the company itself for allowing such system be in place and there is a significant risk players have to take to go through such system.

NCSoft doesn't just cut out the middle person, they just prefer to be that person on top of asking its customers for box fee, monthly fee and expansion fee. The fact is more expensive just proves that there is more $ to be made by NCSoft (in their opinion), but again clearly the system they have going here clearly does not work with me since now not only I will never spend a dime for WildStar but I would never waste my time and participate in it even if it was free to play.

I guess by this statement you never plan on playing any online game ever again then? There will always be a 2ndary market weither it is offered by the game company itself or a 3rd party. Again Pay to win is not this. Pay to win is an advantage made by the company that clearly gives you a superior advantage over another player and is made by the same company that is running the game and that advantage is only gained through spending real life currency.

Oh trust me I would surely play online games since not "ALWAYS" 2ndary markets existed. That market depends on a lot of factors, like the way the game is designed, how secure the game is and what kind of measures it takes to protect its product. There have been online games in the past that have done far superior job in this to the point that 99.5% of the playerbase would not even be aware that such market exist or would choose to engage in.

WildStar's design and the directions NCsoft choose with this C.R.E.D.D system COMBINED is what makes the game a P2W dominated experience. 

Again I'm dumb founded at how someone who hasn't even stepped foot in the game world has looked into the magic mirror and found out WS is P2W.  Can you please tell me this week's lotto numbers too since you're so psycho...I mean psychic...

  Searias

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 666

6/10/14 5:49:55 PM#66
Wouldn't buying and using credd = more of an convenience than P2W? Since, you can get all those items in the game just by playing it :P. Last time I checked P2W = an item you can only get by using "real" currency that gives an advantage to the player. Credd just evens the game out for people with less time to grind for items.

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  Jeyhu

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/06
Posts: 87

6/10/14 5:49:57 PM#67
Alright I get his point now.  So if someone is stupid enough to spend 100 bucks to get 4 CREDDs to sell on the market for cash to get that one epic drop he is pay to win.  Sorry but spending 100 bucks on some stupid pixel sword = P2BS (Pay to be Stupid)
  Jeyhu

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/06
Posts: 87

6/10/14 5:52:43 PM#68
I look forward to a new thread he posts in a week or two in some new MMO game that he has no idea about bashing it's payment model, mechanics or (insert nerd QQ comment)
  rygar218

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/09
Posts: 334

6/10/14 5:54:34 PM#69
Originally posted by Kopogero
Originally posted by rygar218
Originally posted by Kopogero

What you fail to understand and many have told you is the fact that the "BEST" gear in t he game is bind on pickup. Meaning no matter how much money you have you will always need to work for the end game gear.  And say they did not have the credd system, people would still buy gold from 3rd party sights, i mean look at every other mmo out there its all the same with the gold sellers and Plvlers. NCsoft just cut out the middle person when it came to gold. not to mention CREDD is 20 bucks ..meaning it is more expensive then a sub.

Oh I clearly understand the concept what you don't understand is that WIldStar is not just about obtaining the "best" gear. And no, you are wrong when you say "no matter how much $ I have I will still need to work for the end game gear. You are clearly not familiar with "services".

You've clearly not seen how people pay to get "piloted" and obtain not just BOP(bind on pick up) best gears but BOP mounts, titles (both pvp and pve),  ranks in PvP/Battlegrounds and so forth for INGAME currency.

If there is illegal system in place that people can obtain things, again thats loss to the company itself for allowing such system be in place and there is a significant risk players have to take to go through such system.

NCSoft doesn't just cut out the middle person, they just prefer to be that person on top of asking its customers for box fee, monthly fee and expansion fee. The fact is more expensive just proves that there is more $ to be made by NCSoft (in their opinion), but again clearly the system they have going here clearly does not work with me since now not only I will never spend a dime for WildStar but I would never waste my time and participate in it even if it was free to play.

I guess by this statement you never plan on playing any online game ever again then? There will always be a 2ndary market weither it is offered by the game company itself or a 3rd party. Again Pay to win is not this. Pay to win is an advantage made by the company that clearly gives you a superior advantage over another player and is made by the same company that is running the game and that advantage is only gained through spending real life currency.

Oh trust me I would surely play online games since not "ALWAYS" 2ndary markets existed. That market depends on a lot of factors, like the way the game is designed, how secure the game is and what kind of measures it takes to protect its product. There have been online games in the past that have done far superior job in this to the point that 99.5% of the playerbase would not even be aware that such market exist or even dare to engage in.

WildStar's design and the directions NCsoft choose with this C.R.E.D.D system COMBINED is what makes the game a P2W dominated experience. 

Umm, sorry to say this but since when has there not been a 2ndary market in any online game dating all the way back to UO or in anything for that matter..... I'm no economics expert, but supply and demand has always existed. I do agree with you on companies needing to protect their products, but people spending their money in the way they want to is not  a right you get to decide for them. Nor me telling you how you should play or enjoy your games.

But back to the matter at hand. Does this option they avail to you give you a clear and superior advantage over another? Do you kill your opponents easier? Is the only means obtainning this item through the company itself? Or does the item a cosmetic greatly increase their skills? Probably not. Or is the item they are offering to you is in game land? Probably not. 

I haven't played wild-star but looking at the other posts it doesnt look like this C.R.E.D.D system is a pay to win service. sorry to say

 

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7195

6/10/14 6:02:19 PM#70
Originally posted by Kopogero
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Kopogero
Originally posted by Robokapp

Wouldn't this be PLAY TO WIN instead?

 

you play the game to  buy your subscription to be able to win ?

But win what exactly? Many of the things I can do/obtain in the game would be related to currency so the entire "winning" experience would be severely diminished, thus making the game mediocre at best?

winning everything...since subscription grants you access to everything.

 

this is the flaw in your argument. what does a CREDD do?

 

you don't wear it.

you don't turn it into gold at a vendor.

you don't apply it as a buff.

you don't apply it as a debuff on your target.

you don't summon a companion with it to fight for you.

 

you trade it to another player.

it doesn't magically turn into gold. it's being traded. for gold obtained by non-CREDD means.

 

so when someone does use it all they get is...subscription. Not gear, not buffs. subscription.

 

it's as pay-to-win as playing your subscription is.

 

EVE has been doing it for half a decade. EVE's certainly not pay-to-win.

Wasn't the entire purpose and argument of many why P2P (pay to play) works as a better model over F2P (with cash shops) was because everyone in the game is equally treated and can equally plays it. No shortcuts, no ways to get advantage and so forth?

What this system does is creates an opportunity for someone who's willing to involve REAL LIFE currency to directly gain significant advantage over others over all items in the game that are obtainable through ingame currency. Thus making all items in the game obtainable with currency feel nonrewarding to obtain.

One of the many reasons why players choose to play MMORPG's is to progress and build something from nothing. See how far they can do and achieve within the game. All of that is lost when REAL LIFE economy is directly linked with the ingame economy.

Geez that was well said. It's the reason why we who prefer subs do. 

 

Keep you $$ out my mmorpg!

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Tokken

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 889

"I'm your Huckleberry!"

6/10/14 6:06:49 PM#71

Pay to win? NOO!

Everybody says that about most games...

ARE THERE ANY GAMES OUT THERE THAT "ARE" PAY TO WIN?

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  MasterDCT

Novice Member

Joined: 8/05/11
Posts: 11

6/10/14 6:32:53 PM#72

  This is just my opinion. First of all I think all online games have some kind of P2W aspect in there. Everyone wants a free game where you have to play a lot to get end game stuff and the cash shop doesnt offer stuff that increase the characters progression in terms of gears, power,... there is no such thing exists to be honest.

How is the game gonna survive when people dont want to spend money in game and expect the game service to be wonderful in terms of constant content update and some other things? Are you willing to open a game which you invested a lot in and earn little to no profit?

Even if the cash shop only offers costumes and mounts which dont affect the character's progression, some people will also buy the costumes/ mounts with real money then resell them in game for in game currency. Or are you expecting the things that can be purchased in cash shop to be untradable? Who would buy then? Almost nobody.

The 30 day sub can be sold for in game currency is just a small aspect of it. If some people spend a lot of time in game to farm gold to buy the 30 day sub which they dont have to spend money on, some other people can also use that time to work then use real money to buy the 30 day sub and resell it in game. Nothing is wrong with it. They call each other "no life" or "...point buyer" or whatever, they are both right then what? 

Also some people who dont care about appearance but willing to spend money on something like exp boost, drop rate boost?. I think most of the game cash shop offers that which is also an aspect of P2W in terms of character progression.

 

If u want a game that is purely P2W, well I'd say good luck and send me a message if u find one.

  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1979

6/10/14 6:51:55 PM#73
Originally posted by Tokken

Pay to win? NOO!

Everybody says that about most games...

ARE THERE ANY GAMES OUT THERE THAT "ARE" PAY TO WIN?

 

Need for Speed: World used to be it as the best cars in the game could only be bought with real money (they have since eased up on that a bit.. Now they rotate some of the pay-for cars in for in-game money every now and then)

 

A lot of the more traditional asian grind-mmo´s used to be P2W..

 

Beyond that now very many games are P2W any more as it is a really stupid move from a earning´s standpoint as there is no better way to drive a customer away then to tell them that they are to poor for the "cool kid´s club"

 

I am sure there are some more older games that had P2W elements in them but these days developers are smarter then that.. They simply give you a choice and BAM... people spend like there is no tomorrow.

 

That being said more then a few devs are flirting with the idea and testing how close to the border you can get before you step over. CREDD... Is not even close to that... in fact it is about as far from it as you can get and still be in the discussion.

Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3546

6/10/14 6:57:29 PM#74
If wildstar is P2W then surely GW2 is P2W as well?

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Tsumoro

Elite Member

Joined: 6/30/12
Posts: 310

6/10/14 7:01:26 PM#75

[mod edit]

 

There is no pay to win system in the game, to be honest I think you do not understand what pay to win means. P2W is the term used to use real life money to purchase items in game that provide you with an advantage over another player. For example, you purchase an enhancement or a gear piece that provides you with better stats that a competitor. As such, you are using real money to provide you a higher chance in winning. 

CREDD is not this, if anything CREDD helps me out. I am not a rich man presently, but if I can play the game and earn a CREDD to buy a months game time then yes I will. Your issues with the economy are not valid and are without merit. As a person who enjoys trading and the market place (crafting often being my main focus in MMO's, love the stuff) I can tell you know that CREDD will keep the economy balanced for the most part. 

Firstly CREDD cannot be used for anything other than for game time, you cannot craft it, you cannot use it to enhance at all. It is consumed for game time and that is all. 

When someone purchases CREDD all they are doing is moving the money between accounts, much like how I would give the money to a friend to help them out. People will typically buy CREDD to purchase expensive items, this will include gear made by other players although I guess most of it will go towards funding housing. 

If people buying CREDD have a demand for higher end items, this creates a supply and demand situation as such crafters profit as goods become dearer as do the mats used to make them. 

 

I could go into this a lot more, but its 1am and I honestly cant be bothered to go into it as the opinion is very narrowed minding, without any attempt to understand the system, without any acknowledgement of playing the game, or intending to play the game. 

 

[mod edit]

  tkoreaper

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 409

6/10/14 7:04:47 PM#76
Originally posted by Kopogero
Originally posted by rygar218
Originally posted by Kopogero

What you fail to understand and many have told you is the fact that the "BEST" gear in t he game is bind on pickup. Meaning no matter how much money you have you will always need to work for the end game gear.  And say they did not have the credd system, people would still buy gold from 3rd party sights, i mean look at every other mmo out there its all the same with the gold sellers and Plvlers. NCsoft just cut out the middle person when it came to gold. not to mention CREDD is 20 bucks ..meaning it is more expensive then a sub.

Oh I clearly understand the concept what you don't understand is that WIldStar is not just about obtaining the "best" gear. And no, you are wrong when you say "no matter how much $ I have I will still need to work for the end game gear. You are clearly not familiar with "services".

You've clearly not seen how people pay to get "piloted" and obtain not just BOP(bind on pick up) best gears but BOP mounts, titles (both pvp and pve),  ranks in PvP/Battlegrounds and so forth for INGAME currency.

If there is illegal system in place that people can obtain things, again thats loss to the company itself for allowing such system be in place and there is a significant risk players have to take to go through such system.

NCSoft doesn't just cut out the middle person, they just prefer to be that person on top of asking its customers for box fee, monthly fee and expansion fee. The fact is more expensive just proves that there is more $ to be made by NCSoft (in their opinion), but again clearly the system they have going here clearly does not work with me since now not only I will never spend a dime for WildStar but I would never waste my time and participate in it even if it was free to play.

I guess by this statement you never plan on playing any online game ever again then? There will always be a 2ndary market weither it is offered by the game company itself or a 3rd party. Again Pay to win is not this. Pay to win is an advantage made by the company that clearly gives you a superior advantage over another player and is made by the same company that is running the game and that advantage is only gained through spending real life currency.

Oh trust me I would surely play online games since not "ALWAYS" 2ndary markets existed. That market depends on a lot of factors, like the way the game is designed, how secure the game is and what kind of measures it takes to protect its product. There have been online games in the past that have done far superior job in this to the point that 99.5% of the playerbase would not even be aware that such market exist or even dare to engage in.

WildStar's design and the directions NCsoft choose with this C.R.E.D.D system COMBINED is what makes the game a P2W dominated experience. 

Oh just give it up already. The game is far from P2W and based on the poll you're pretty much alone in your belief. You act as if this system is something new when it's not. I can recall 2 games that have used this system successfully are NOT P2W... Rift and Tera.

  zevian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 381

6/10/14 7:09:42 PM#77

All i see are people trying to start a hate train on this game,   yet it always loses steam.    Take your negative attitude and false claims/accusations somewhere else.

 

The truth is a majority of people like this game, and all the crap false or real you guys spew isnt working to change peoples opinions.

 

Perhaps when more people reach max level and find out they dont have the skill to continue further youll find a few more passengers for your hate train.

 

p.s.  game is not pay to win,   the only advantage youll get from having gold is having more access to crap on the auction house,  all of which is easy to farm up or craft on your own,   the gear which is no better than youll get playing the game.

  MarkAnd81

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/10/14
Posts: 19

6/10/14 9:30:46 PM#78
How is the game pay to win? I mean its not a great game, but I am not seeing how its pay to win.
  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3728

6/10/14 11:05:14 PM#79
Originally posted by bcbully

Geez that was well said. It's the reason why we who prefer subs do. 

 

Keep you $$ out my mmorpg!

... so you don't like Age of Wushu, TSW or EVE anymore?  What do you like, just ESO now?

  VicDynamo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/07/14
Posts: 219

6/10/14 11:11:34 PM#80
If CREDD is pay to win then ALL MMO's are pay to win since people buy gold in those games as well.
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