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News & Features Discussion  » Star Citizen: Arena Commander Delayed, Roberts Explains Why

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77 posts found
  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2006

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

5/29/14 1:40:43 PM#41

I think it's worth the wait. Personally going to wait until the game is finished, as they have more than enough money and I don't want to spoil it for myself by playing the unfinished version.

Also found this article on the topic at arstechnica

  M4ko

Novice Member

Joined: 10/31/03
Posts: 411

5/29/14 1:51:28 PM#42

The whole discussion about how delays are better than releasing a buggy game is missing some points. First off, when publishers are pushing their devs to release a game at certain date, it is based on how costumers react to such events. If all players were such dedicated costumers, who are willing to support a final and polished product, no matter how long it took to finish it, then there would never be dead lines. Publishers realize that if the game takes too long to release after it's initial hype, players may get tired of waiting for it; hype is never constant; and other games are ready to take the spot of the delayed game. So what big-name publishers do by forcing deadlines is that they are securing their market share which is influenced not by shareholders but by actual players.

Not having a publisher and not having actual release dates, in my opinion, has no positive effect on how profitable the game will be. In general not having these components by having crowdfunds, only helps the devs themselves and not the players. The devs dont have the pressure of setting a goal while already having the money in their pockets, they can stretch the development for as long as they want and not worry much about the game flopping altogether, since they've already earned their paycheck.

  nbtscan

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/06/06
Posts: 463

5/29/14 2:10:06 PM#43
Originally posted by Foobarx

Well, if you want it done right, expect a 2020 release date... you all willing to wait that long?... did you expect to fund a project with that sort of lead time?  I think the reality is, home-grown projects take quadruple if not more the amount of development time.  You've all come to expect speedy results.  Think of it more as a 401K project... you invest in it, and when you retire, you get your return.

 

This is why crowd funding is not the way to get the video game you want... because by the time it gets done, you will no longer want it and want something else.

This may have been true when they were only expecting 500k.  When you have a 40 million dollar budget I think you have the funds available to get shit done in a more expedient manner.

  grndzro

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 1105

5/29/14 2:54:42 PM#44

Out of 200 employees there is probably 10 working on the dogfighter module.

It should not be used as a yardstick to measure what work is or has been done on the rest of the game. There are many things other than DF that are being worked on.

  Solar_Prophet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/13
Posts: 642

5/29/14 3:13:57 PM#45

Meanwhile the team behind Elite: Dangerous has been cranking out fully functional alpha versions of their game for a while now, and on about 1/40th the budget.

At the pace RSI is going, I fully expect their game to release about the same time as E:D's second expansion.

Clarification: I hope SC comes out and is every bit as good as backers expect it to be. I'm just taking the piss out of RSI for my own amusement.

Today's message is brought to you by the U.S. Department of Education! Making our children more stupid since 1979!

  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

5/29/14 3:17:50 PM#46
Originally posted by nbtscan
Originally posted by Foobarx

Well, if you want it done right, expect a 2020 release date... you all willing to wait that long?... did you expect to fund a project with that sort of lead time?  I think the reality is, home-grown projects take quadruple if not more the amount of development time.  You've all come to expect speedy results.  Think of it more as a 401K project... you invest in it, and when you retire, you get your return.

 

This is why crowd funding is not the way to get the video game you want... because by the time it gets done, you will no longer want it and want something else.

This may have been true when they were only expecting 500k.  When you have a 40 million dollar budget I think you have the funds available to get shit done in a more expedient manner.

More $$$ does not equal getting things done faster or better.

SWToR**cough**$200Mil**cough

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  psiic

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 595

5/29/14 4:55:07 PM#47

Only thing that would really piss me off is if they bring a new ship to market during the delay.

 

 

  psiic

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 595

5/29/14 5:00:27 PM#48
Originally posted by Foobarx

Well, if you want it done right, expect a 2020 release date... you all willing to wait that long?... did you expect to fund a project with that sort of lead time?  I think the reality is, home-grown projects take quadruple if not more the amount of development time.  You've all come to expect speedy results.  Think of it more as a 401K project... you invest in it, and when you retire, you get your return.

 

This is why crowd funding is not the way to get the video game you want... because by the time it gets done, you will no longer want it and want something else.

 

Very good solid point.  I am still waiting on some games I backed in 2010 to get to beta.

  Copypasterino

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/19/14
Posts: 70

5/29/14 5:05:13 PM#49

is that the 3rd delay?

Do you guys watched their show at PAX? A massive disaster, one of the biggest fail on the gaming history. I felt so bad for Chris, i even though he was going to cry LIVE.

Sorry but Star Citizen is not going to happen. 

Dont put hope in it or you guys are just going to be disapointed (and scammed btw).

Better ask for a refund before it's too late.

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1086

5/29/14 5:12:35 PM#50

Bumpy road, just as I predicted.  Though this is really just a small pothole.  So far.

 

Roberts overweening, gigantic ego leads him to make some poor decisions, and to think that all he has to do is show up for things to be a success.  This shouldn't be a shock to anyone, he previously presided over several Vaporware of the Year candidates, with extensive delays.

 

His salesmanship brilliance, though,  has lead to unprecedented success in developing a cash-shop-in-advance system.  

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  Celebereg

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 38

5/29/14 5:19:11 PM#51

CIG is play/testing the game day in and day out.  We could be doing the same.  We ALL KNOW this is way early testing, they've given us a shoddy, buggy, half-filled Hangar already and nobody dropped a brick over that.

 

There's no good reason not to release it as is to the backers, so they can kick the tires, too, AND TO GIVE some credibility to CIG for hitting a date for once.

  Slapshot1188

Elite Member

Joined: 5/06/07
Posts: 4155

5/29/14 5:24:06 PM#52

The continued over-promising and under-delivering does not bode well for the future...

 

Let's hope they right the ship quickly because so far everything they have actually DELIVERED has been problematic...

 

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  grndzro

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 1105

5/29/14 5:43:11 PM#53
Originally posted by Arglebargle

Roberts overweening, gigantic ego leads him to make some poor decisions, and to think that all he has to do is show up for things to be a success.  This shouldn't be a shock to anyone, he previously presided over several Vaporware of the Year candidates, with extensive delays.

Really? How was his time at Origin in any way a failure?

Microsoft bought Digital Anvil when it had several games in the works. CR had no part in what MS did with the games after.

Misrosoft is responsible for those screwups not Chris Roberts. MS offered a great deal of money for DA, it would have been stupid not to sell it.

Both Conquest Frontier Wars and Freelancer were in early development when Microsoft acquired Digital Anvil. Chris Roberts was not in the picture.

I know it's popular to hate CR but get your facts straight and pick a real reason.

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1086

5/29/14 6:27:47 PM#54
Originally posted by grndzro
Originally posted by Arglebargle

Roberts overweening, gigantic ego leads him to make some poor decisions, and to think that all he has to do is show up for things to be a success.  This shouldn't be a shock to anyone, he previously presided over several Vaporware of the Year candidates, with extensive delays.

Really? How was his time at Origin in any way a failure?

Microsoft bought Digital Anvil when it had several games in the works. CR had no part in what MS did with the games after.

Misrosoft is responsible for those screwups not Chris Roberts. MS offered a great deal of money for DA, it would have been stupid not to sell it.

Both Conquest Frontier Wars and Freelancer were in early development when Microsoft acquired Digital Anvil. Chris Roberts was not in the picture.

I know it's popular to hate CR but get your facts straight and pick a real reason.

How about Strike Commander?  Years late, a million man hours wasted, in part due to some bad decisions made by the producer.   The original Wing Commander had a ton of other significant game designers involved in it, but to the Cult of Roberts, he did it all.  I talked to someone who was at the original design meeting for the game, and there was no genius vision evident.  Other people did the work, he basked in the glory.  In Wing Commander 3 he pretty much confined himself to shooting the video sequences.  This lead to his stellar work in the Wing Commander Movie.  

 

Freelancer:  Concieved the idea in 1997, with a release date of 1999.  That crept to 2000.   It had the signature Roberts features of grandiose  ideas that were not really feasible. 

Wiki quotes;  "Roberts admitted that his team required large sums of money, which only a huge company could provide, to continue developing Freelancer with its "wildly ambitious" features and unpredictable schedule; the project had overshot its original development projection of three years by 18 months."   and,  "Microsoft instructed Digital Anvil to scale down the ambitions of the project and focus on finishing the game based on what was possible and the team's strengths."   It still took them til 2003 to get the game out.

 

Both of these games were years late, and won Vaporware awards.

 

Roberts is  the second or third most disliked person in general consensus of ex-Origin staff that I know.  Over the last year, I've talked to ten Origin employees who worked with him, and none of them have anything good to say.    You can discount that if you want (it is the internet), but it is still absolutely the case.

 

He left the gaming field to go produce movies.  Be my guest and have yourself a Roberts film festival, but they were not particularly good, and suffered the ultimate Hollywood sin of not making money.   Not great decision making, imo.

 

The guy's become a genius in the re-telling, especially since he's been doing a lot of the story telling himself.

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  caine6621

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/05
Posts: 207

There is no such thing as stupid questions, only stupid students.

5/31/14 11:39:59 AM#55
Originally posted by Faulkner

People amaze me.  

We all complain when a game is rushed and put out before it should.  Game breaking bugs, exploits..etc....  This game is in PRE_ALPHA and they want to release a version for folks that is stable and take their time to get things right.  But folks are now complaining about that now.  

What I love is that no one is forcing them to release a crappy build of the game and they are releasing it on their own terms.

Just my 2 Cents.  

Cheers,

 

I was thinking this exact same thing.  You can't have it both ways.

 

If I am not mistaken you can pull your money out at any time.  So do it and be quiet.

There are only 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't

  caine6621

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/05
Posts: 207

There is no such thing as stupid questions, only stupid students.

5/31/14 11:42:22 AM#56
Originally posted by Arglebargle

Bumpy road, just as I predicted.  Though this is really just a small pothole.  So far.

 

Roberts overweening, gigantic ego leads him to make some poor decisions, and to think that all he has to do is show up for things to be a success.  This shouldn't be a shock to anyone, he previously presided over several Vaporware of the Year candidates, with extensive delays.

 

His salesmanship brilliance, though,  has lead to unprecedented success in developing a cash-shop-in-advance system.  

 

I am not a massive game player so I don't always know who is who, but when I first heard about this game everyone was referring to him as the messiah, now he is ego driven blowhard.  I have to wonder what people really expect.

There are only 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't

  Arpat

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/06
Posts: 23

i'm bad at gaming... mess up everything and miss the point all the time. what's your excuse?

5/31/14 7:14:57 PM#57

Oh.. Must be a great game if the players already whine about a pre-alpha with no promises about actual dates. It was clear from the start that this isn't a large publishing company driven game.  It was clear from the start that the release dates are expected dates and not actual dates. Wat wasn't actually clear was the huge amount of support that the game got. That changed the goals in a positive way, but it also needs more people, more thought and thus more time. Chris Roberts has experience with creating games and he has no big ego - at least not bigger then any other man with a tremendous amount of pressure to deliver a game of this magnitude in a relative short time. He is  responsible for a lot of money and to make a dream come true for himself as well as the team as us, the backers (old and new ones) - remember steve jobs? now that was a man with an ego.. Chris Roberts is realising our dream, or his dream of very immersive world, perhaps better to say: our dream of a space sim. A few weeks delay on a game of this proportions is nothing. The game was only funded (read started on nov.19 2012. The development is going on for less then 2 years..... And they build from scratch. not another version of the same game. It is based on the ideas of an older game but is doesn't re-use code or use exisiting 3D models. it is all new. fresh.

They delivered 

  • A hangar just a showcase item, but still..
  • a dozen fully detailed ships with moving parts (high quality). (to look at in the hangar) 
  • over 100 articles about the verse, the ships, ship details, jumppoints, systems
  • information about AI, gameplay etc. we are involved. (the only game that i know that involves players beyond normal gameplay is eve online)
  • interactive community events, and a weekly tv show
  • short promo movies about their ships (awesome music)
  • i am sure i missed many more things they actually delivered.

and then there are people complaining?

i think that it isn't fair to complain. It is to expect that a company with new ideas,new technology (like oculus), a type of game that would simply no longer exist if believers (backers) wouldn't invest. If you think you need to whine about a delay of a few days you really should consider to ask your money back because in my opinion you have no common sense at all.

arpat Xfire Miniprofile
  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3567

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

5/31/14 7:17:26 PM#58
Originally posted by syriinx

"This is the power of the crowdfunding that made Star Citizen possible: a publisher would make us ship tomorrow regardless of the current build quality… but as you are all focused on quality rather than a financial return for shareholders we are able to take a few more days to deliver something that is stable."

 

What a load of crap.  Nothing like talking down to your customers and treating them like gullible morons.  Have some respect for your backers.

Delaying is a good thing, but not all publishers are EA. 

No, some are even worse... Like NCsoft that has axed 8-9 western games so far...

As for the other, I'd much rather them take their time, and release when its ready, than release just to appease a group of jaded, entitled, impatient, spoiled brats.

No one forced anyone to be a backer. Most of us did so, because we believe in Chris Roberts, and his vision for the game.

  Jacxolope

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/13
Posts: 746

5/31/14 7:24:12 PM#59
Originally posted by Arpat

Oh.. Must be a great game if the players already whine about a pre-alpha with no promises about actual dates. It was clear from the start that this isn't a large publishing company driven game.  It was clear from the start that the release dates are expected dates and not actual dates. Wat wasn't actually clear was the huge amount of support that the game got. That changed the goals in a positive way, but it also needs more people, more thought and thus more time. Chris Roberts has experience with creating games and he has no big ego - at least not bigger then any other man with a tremendous amount of pressure to deliver a game of this magnitude in a relative short time. He is  responsible for a lot of money and to make a dream come true for himself as well as the team as us, the backers (old and new ones) - remember steve jobs? now that was a man with an ego.. Chris Roberts is realising our dream, or his dream of very immersive world, perhaps better to say: our dream of a space sim. A few weeks delay on a game of this proportions is nothing. The game was only funded (read started on nov.19 2012. The development is going on for less then 2 years..... And they build from scratch. not another version of the same game. It is based on the ideas of an older game but is doesn't re-use code or use exisiting 3D models. it is all new. fresh.

They delivered 

  • A hangar just a showcase item, but still..
  • a dozen fully detailed ships with moving parts (high quality). (to look at in the hangar) 
  • over 100 articles about the verse, the ships, ship details, jumppoints, systems
  • information about AI, gameplay etc. we are involved. (the only game that i know that involves players beyond normal gameplay is eve online)
  • interactive community events, and a weekly tv show
  • short promo movies about their ships (awesome music)
  • i am sure i missed many more things they actually delivered.

and then there are people complaining?

i think that it isn't fair to complain. It is to expect that a company with new ideas,new technology (like oculus), a type of game that would simply no longer exist if believers (backers) wouldn't invest. If you think you need to whine about a delay of a few days you really should consider to ask your money back because in my opinion you have no common sense at all.

'Sup Chris. =P

  DocBrody

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1481

5/31/14 7:25:49 PM#60

I am very, happy it is delayed 

it just shows they want to, deliver something playable

not throw a complete unstable build, out

just, to keep a stupid date. 

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