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General Gaming  » I actually like tab targeting (Poll)

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35 posts found
  Konfess

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 777

5/24/14 1:05:51 PM#21

This has been a common theme of mine in posts here.  First to combat WoW vacuuming up all its customers SWG introduced the NGE/CU (primarily the Combat Update).  This replaced tab-targeting with twitch-targeting (FPS).  For the players that remained, this was the last straw. I stayed and played for 2 more years.  SOE chose a focus group made up of console FPS gamers to poll.  As a result SOE ruined one of its Flagship games.  There were other changes like the removal of AFK macro leveling and the class restructure of the NGE (New Game Experience).  But those came in second and third in importance.


At the time there already was an MMOFPS, Planetside.  So why the push or need to se FPS combat in an MMORPG?  Failure to pwn in FPS.  The only reason console FPS gamers want FPS game mechanics in MMORPGs is to get access to weak opponents.  FPS does not add to the Story or Setting or Lore.  Its all about getting access to perceived sheep and fish in a barrel.


Devs think they are being innovative and original, but all FPSMMORPGs have failed to thrive.  I read a Devs say that there is no reason to limit RPGs to tab-targeting now that hardware can support FPS.  What this DEV doesn’t know is that RPG Gamers don’t want to FPS, and FPS console  gamers don’t want to RPG.  console FPS gamers want non-FPS opponents (easy kills) and nothing more from gaming.  They can’t get this in their console FPSs, so they turn to MMORPGs and demand FPS-targeting.


Just this week I read threads here that said,  “I don’t want grind/questing.”  This is code for give me FPS combat in your RGP so I can pwn,  like I don’t in console FPSs that I want to play.  When you see this kind of post demand what the alternative would be to quests in their mind?  I guarantee the answer will sound like Call of Modern Halo (see how I mashed up the names not to point at a single target, If I said CoD people would only think that one games mechanics and not the FPS genre).


Other code words used by console FPS gamers are faceroll, and skill based gaming.  MMORPG gamers know that tab-targetting is a strategic and skilled based combat system.  These gamers do equally well with either Tab-Targetting or FPS, these are not the gamers that console FPS gamers are looking for as opponents.  They are looking for easy kills people who are not skilled with either Tab-Targeting or FPS controls.


What they really need is a FPS game where they can pay some people to lose to them, like a FPS brothel (not for sex, just paid to lose at FPS).  Thats what they really want.

Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5435

5/24/14 1:15:00 PM#22
Originally posted by Konfess

This has been a common theme of mine in posts here.  First to combat WoW vacuuming up all its customers SWG introduced the NGE/CU (primarily the Combat Update).  This replaced tab-targeting with twitch-targeting (FPS).  For the players that remained, this was the last straw. I stayed and played for 2 more years.  SOE chose a focus group made up of console FPS gamers to poll.  As a result SOE ruined one of its Flagship games.  There were other changes like the removal of AFK macro leveling and the class restructure of the NGE (New Game Experience).  But those came in second and third in importance.


At the time there already was an MMOFPS, Planetside.  So why the push or need to se FPS combat in an MMORPG?  Failure to pwn in FPS.  The only reason console FPS gamers want FPS game mechanics in MMORPGs is to get access to weak opponents.  FPS does not add to the Story or Setting or Lore.  Its all about getting access to perceived sheep and fish in a barrel.


Devs think they are being innovative and original, but all FPSMMORPGs have failed to thrive.  I read a Devs say that there is no reason to limit RPGs to tab-targeting now that hardware can support FPS.  What this DEV doesn’t know is that RPG Gamers don’t want to FPS, and FPS console  gamers don’t want to RPG.  console FPS gamers want non-FPS opponents (easy kills) and nothing more from gaming.  They can’t get this in their console FPSs, so they turn to MMORPGs and demand FPS-targeting.


Just this week I read threads here that said,  “I don’t want grind/questing.”  This is code for give me FPS combat in your RGP so I can pwn,  like I don’t in console FPSs that I want to play.  When you see this kind of post demand what the alternative would be to quests in their mind?  I guarantee the answer will sound like Call of Modern Halo (see how I mashed up the names not to point at a single target, If I said CoD people would only think that one games mechanics and not the FPS genre).


Other code words used by console FPS gamers are faceroll, and skill based gaming.  MMORPG gamers know that tab-targetting is a strategic and skilled based combat system.  These gamers do equally well with either Tab-Targetting or FPS, these are not the gamers that console FPS gamers are looking for as opponents.  They are looking for easy kills people who are not skilled with either Tab-Targeting or FPS controls.


What they really need is a FPS game where they can pay some people to lose to them, like a FPS brothel (not for sex, just paid to lose at FPS).  Thats what they really want.

i think this post is probably classed as a headshot critical hit

  Konfess

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 777

5/24/14 1:15:07 PM#23
Originally posted by kalosjakar
Originally posted by stayBlind
A game can not be an MMORPG if it does not have tab targeting. 

Tab targeting removes a large portion of the skill out of PVP.  It has nothing to do with it being an MMO / RPG... or not.

It basically says, hey I don't want to be rewarded for good aim... I just want to button mash.

I hate to be proven right, but here is a console FPS gamer playing the lack of skill card in this very thread.

Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.

  Entinerint

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 745

5/24/14 1:32:21 PM#24

I know what you mean OP, I hate having to think, act and react while playing a game.

 

The only games I like are ones where I can macro everything to one button and just watch the game play itself.

 

Then again, I usually just pay somebody else to level my character.

 

I hate games you have to play, ugh, what a pain!  Blizzard gets it, $60 to max level?  Yes please!

  Atrigo

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/13
Posts: 44

5/24/14 2:04:12 PM#25
I guess it boils down to personal preference and the reason why you play games in the first place. I enjoy the RPG aspects of the genre, character and profession building. So my toon's capabilities and not my RL hand-eye coordination, keyboarding skills and internet connection are the major determining factor in game play. I play for a relaxing and fun experience, and not for the adrenaline rush/intensity. Probably one of the reasons I don't PvP. Its just not fun for me. Tab targeting does what it needs to do, make combat engaging and interesting for me. 
  User Deleted
5/24/14 2:06:15 PM#26
I'm one of those strange gamers, apparently, that believes that different combat systems belong in different games. I can enjoy tab targeting in Aion or WoW and still enjoy more action combat systems in Tera and WildStar. I wouldn't expect any of those games to swap or change their styles.
  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

5/24/14 2:18:29 PM#27
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by Konfess

This has been a common theme of mine in posts here.  First to combat WoW vacuuming up all its customers SWG introduced the NGE/CU (primarily the Combat Update).  This replaced tab-targeting with twitch-targeting (FPS).  For the players that remained, this was the last straw. I stayed and played for 2 more years.  SOE chose a focus group made up of console FPS gamers to poll.  As a result SOE ruined one of its Flagship games.  There were other changes like the removal of AFK macro leveling and the class restructure of the NGE (New Game Experience).  But those came in second and third in importance.


At the time there already was an MMOFPS, Planetside.  So why the push or need to se FPS combat in an MMORPG?  Failure to pwn in FPS.  The only reason console FPS gamers want FPS game mechanics in MMORPGs is to get access to weak opponents.  FPS does not add to the Story or Setting or Lore.  Its all about getting access to perceived sheep and fish in a barrel.


Devs think they are being innovative and original, but all FPSMMORPGs have failed to thrive.  I read a Devs say that there is no reason to limit RPGs to tab-targeting now that hardware can support FPS.  What this DEV doesn’t know is that RPG Gamers don’t want to FPS, and FPS console  gamers don’t want to RPG.  console FPS gamers want non-FPS opponents (easy kills) and nothing more from gaming.  They can’t get this in their console FPSs, so they turn to MMORPGs and demand FPS-targeting.


Just this week I read threads here that said,  “I don’t want grind/questing.”  This is code for give me FPS combat in your RGP so I can pwn,  like I don’t in console FPSs that I want to play.  When you see this kind of post demand what the alternative would be to quests in their mind?  I guarantee the answer will sound like Call of Modern Halo (see how I mashed up the names not to point at a single target, If I said CoD people would only think that one games mechanics and not the FPS genre).


Other code words used by console FPS gamers are faceroll, and skill based gaming.  MMORPG gamers know that tab-targetting is a strategic and skilled based combat system.  These gamers do equally well with either Tab-Targetting or FPS, these are not the gamers that console FPS gamers are looking for as opponents.  They are looking for easy kills people who are not skilled with either Tab-Targeting or FPS controls.


What they really need is a FPS game where they can pay some people to lose to them, like a FPS brothel (not for sex, just paid to lose at FPS).  Thats what they really want.

i think this post is probably classed as a headshot critical hit

Yeah every time you lump "everyone " into a group and give them an extreme stereotype you know you're going to headshot that point......./rolleyes

  Kanester

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/10
Posts: 357

5/24/14 2:33:39 PM#28

Only non targeting MMO I like is Darkfall, The rest is just lazy.

  azzamasin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2824

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

5/24/14 2:59:50 PM#29
Originally posted by Dauntis
FPS is fine, FPSMMOs are okay. FPSMMORPG cannot exist, the minute you add twitch mechanics, then you are no longer playing a role. You are reliant on your own twitchy goodness to prevail and your character doesn't matter.

So false it's almost not worth replying too.  Suffice it to say you are dead wrong.  At no point does combat rely on some archaic and skill less tab target.  mmoRPG's can have any combat they choose.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  mbd1968

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/07
Posts: 2006

5/24/14 3:00:12 PM#30
Fantasy games I prefer tab targeting, especially for melee. With modern weapons ranged weapons (or futuristic) I prefer a TPS style with an aiming reticule.
  kalosjakar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/13
Posts: 6

5/25/14 9:32:24 PM#31
I don't even own a console, so I'm not a console FPS player.  I just enjoy PC games where aim matters, and not the mashing of buttons 1 and 2, and sometimes 3.  You guys are simpletons and you prefer that type of game, it's cool.
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13683

5/25/14 9:50:45 PM#32
I hate first person shooters, but I'm not really a fan of tab targeting, either.  A third person perspective in which you can attack and hit whatever happens to be there used to be very common (e.g., The Legend of Zelda), and that's the approach that I still prefer.  It can be brought into an online era just fine; Spiral Knights and Infantry both did it very well.
  Pie_Rat

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/05
Posts: 310

5/25/14 10:06:58 PM#33

I don't mind twitch combat but I frikkin hate playing and being locked in 1rst person view.

Currently playing: Football Manager 2015.

Getting more kicks out of a single player sports RPG than any MMO on the market. A sad state of affairs indeed...

  Vezlin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 15

5/25/14 10:41:14 PM#34
Originally posted by Konfess

 

     While the loss of SWG in such a way is lamentable, it's hardly an excuse to go on a wild vendetta against an entire style of gameplay and those who enjoy it.

     People who enjoy more control over how they control their characters (I.E. 'FPS' style gameplay) also want to give that same control to their competition. Neither that nor asking for less grinding or questing has anything to do with hunting for 'fish in a barrel.' If anything, I find it a search for a greater challenge. In tab target systems, gear often, though admittedly not always, becomes king. There is nothing tactical about having better gear and then going through the optimal rotation for your class thanks to the design of the devs. There are tactics in learning how to use a weapon to deal optimal damage with its limited moveset and using your class', character's or preferred means of avoiding damage to stay alive. Consider Dark Souls 1 and 2. Both are RPGs, but with twitch controls, and try to say those are easy for FPS players, Call of Modern Halos, or failures.

     Furthermore, while not MMOs, they also show that you don't need traditional questing or grinding for an RPG. Every area is like a 'dungeon,' with a regional theme, enemy theme, and bosses. Every encounter provides some sort of challenge, and is more likely than not capable of killing you if you don't know how to deal with it. That's what it means to get away from the questing and the grinding; both of those are barriers from the more interesting dungeons and group content that tend to attract people to the combat portion of mmo. Grinding for weeks isn't seen as outdated because we're about instant gratification or a lack of challenge. No one's saying there shouldn't be goals; there just shouldn't be throwaway goals that do nothing to add to the real experience. If leveling was fun, why would you lament the loss of afk macro grinding? 

     As for hampering lore and setting, I see no reason as to why FPS controls would do that. If anything, free targeting could allow for greater control, and allow for players particularly practiced in an area or specific combo of abilities to shine as their characters should. A newbie archer and a veteran archer in a tab target system would like both have the same auto or basic attack, with the only difference being the numbers that pop up over their target's head, while, say, a skilled bowgunner in Monster Hunter might be effective not just for their gear, but knowing what elements a monster's weak to, or where to shoot it for maximum damage. if anything, that seems more like playing a role than most tab targeting systems, which is more like playing a spreadsheet.

     There's the rub, really. I have nothing against tab targeting as a means of organization and a tactical limiter. I loved Guild Wars 1 probably longer than any other game I've played, because of the possible variety of builds allowed for by tab targeting. But now, it just seems like a means of rubbing your stat page against someone else's and seeing whose comes out the less smeared. FPS controls are not the only means of going back to more player control, but they are a viable means, and should not jbe discounted as FPSers being unhappy with FPSes.ust 

  LagKingBong

Novice Member

Joined: 10/23/13
Posts: 57

5/25/14 11:05:12 PM#35
Originally posted by Vezlin
Originally posted by Konfess

 

        People who enjoy more control over how they control their characters (I.E. 'FPS' style gameplay) also want to give that same control to their competition. Neither that nor asking for less grinding or questing has anything to do with hunting for 'fish in a barrel.' If anything, I find it a search for a greater challenge. In tab target systems, gear often, though admittedly not always, becomes king. There is nothing tactical about having better gear and then going through the optimal rotation for your class thanks to the design of the devs. There are tactics in learning how to use a weapon to deal optimal damage with its limited moveset and using your class', character's or preferred means of avoiding damage to stay alive.

     As for hampering lore and setting, I see no reason as to why FPS controls would do that. If anything, free targeting could allow for greater control, and allow for players particularly practiced in an area or specific combo of abilities to shine as their characters should. A newbie archer and a veteran archer in a tab target system would like both have the same auto or basic attack, with the only difference being the numbers that pop up over their target's head, while, say, a skilled bowgunner in Monster Hunter might be effective not just for their gear, but knowing what elements a monster's weak to, or where to shoot it for maximum damage. if anything, that seems more like playing a role than most tab targeting systems, which is more like playing a spreadsheet.

     There's the rub, really. I have nothing against tab targeting as a means of organization and a tactical limiter. I loved Guild Wars 1 probably longer than any other game I've played, because of the possible variety of builds allowed for by tab targeting. But now, it just seems like a means of rubbing your stat page against someone else's and seeing whose comes out the less smeared. FPS controls are not the only means of going back to more player control, but they are a viable means, and should not jbe discounted as FPSers being unhappy 

This^^

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