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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Can We Make Quests Matter Again?

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98 posts found
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15331

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/23/14 3:50:23 PM#21

People want to do away with quests for leveling, but what do we replace it with? What will be the primary leveling/skill building mechanic? It's not like Mob grinding is any better. People got sick of that which is why quests took over that role to begin with. If we're not going to regress back to that, where do we go? What do we as a consumer base want, what would be enjoyable?

We can sit here and talk about what we don't like until we're blue in the face... Yet that will not take us anywhere until we start discussing what we do want and enjoy. NO one ever does that...

What I want to see is a system where the leveling process is lienar with good story telling/atmosphere and quest mechanics, with an elder game that is wide open and community oriented. Essentially the best of both worlds. Make both the world mechanics and story mechanics worth while and cohesive.

 

 

 

 

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Matticus75

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 391

5/23/14 3:54:45 PM#22
Originally posted by Distopia

People want to do away with quests for leveling, but what do we replace it with? What will be the primary leveling/skill building mechanic? It's not like Mob grinding is any better. People got sick of that which is why quests took over that role to begin with. If we're not going to regress back to that, where do we go? What do we as a consumer base want, what would be enjoyable?

We can sit here and talk about what we don't like until we're blue in the face... Yet that will not take us anywhere until we start discussing what we do want and enjoy. NO one ever does that...

What I want to see is a system where the leveling process is lienar with good story telling/atmosphere and quest mechanics, with an elder game that is wide open and community oriented. Essentially the best of both worlds. Make both the world mechanics and story mechanics worth while and cohesive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What he said is similar in line to what I stated

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1101

5/23/14 3:59:37 PM#23

Quests the way I would want them...

You stumble across a farmer. You chat.

 

He has a problem with some Orcs occasionally raiding his farm for cattle. The options are: -

 

Gather materials and build better fences and protection for the cattle.

Reward is free board and lodging for a few days while you do the work and some food when you leave.

 

Serve as a guard to protect the next raid.

Reward is room and board till the next raid and some food when you leave for your travels.

 

Hunt the local Orcs and kill or move them on.

Reward is to get some food for travel and confirmation to the local guards for a reward of gold posted by them for Orcs killed.

 

Buy the cattle from him.

The cattle to sell for whatever profit you can get.

 

Transport the cattle to the local market.

A cut of the profit the farmer makes.

 

I.E. when I think of quests I see them as tasks that have various ways to achieve the desired outcome and upon completion receive. Quests should also be situational so that, when the problem with the Orcs is dealt with the farmer no longer has a need for help. That may mean another pressing issues rises that he needs help with of course.

 

The reason I am so excited for EQN is that, if everything works as hoped, such a questing system is possible.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15331

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/23/14 4:01:17 PM#24
Originally posted by Matticus75
Originally posted by Distopia

People want to do away with quests for leveling, but what do we replace it with? What will be the primary leveling/skill building mechanic? It's not like Mob grinding is any better. People got sick of that which is why quests took over that role to begin with. If we're not going to regress back to that, where do we go? What do we as a consumer base want, what would be enjoyable?

We can sit here and talk about what we don't like until we're blue in the face... Yet that will not take us anywhere until we start discussing what we do want and enjoy. NO one ever does that...

What I want to see is a system where the leveling process is lienar with good story telling/atmosphere and quest mechanics, with an elder game that is wide open and community oriented. Essentially the best of both worlds. Make both the world mechanics and story mechanics worth while and cohesive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What he said is similar in line to what I stated

Yeah I noticed that lol

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  samsweet

Novice Member

Joined: 5/08/14
Posts: 26

5/23/14 4:02:30 PM#25
I would prefer a grinding group in eq1 over any questing. It was a slower pace and actually gave you a chance to get to know people in your group. Opposed to the "lets get this bs over with" feeling when you're sent to collect a bag of orc anuses.
  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1101

5/23/14 4:06:26 PM#26
Originally posted by Distopia

People want to do away with quests for leveling, but what do we replace it with? What will be the primary leveling/skill building mechanic? It's not like Mob grinding is any better. People got sick of that which is why quests took over that role to begin with. If we're not going to regress back to that, where do we go? What do we as a consumer base want, what would be enjoyable?

We can sit here and talk about what we don't like until we're blue in the face... Yet that will not take us anywhere until we start discussing what we do want and enjoy. NO one ever does that...

What I want to see is a system where the leveling process is lienar with good story telling/atmosphere and quest mechanics, with an elder game that is wide open and community oriented. Essentially the best of both worlds. Make both the world mechanics and story mechanics worth while and cohesive.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. I see quests as a way to pay the way for the style of life you want to live not as the main means for gaining experience.

For me, experience should actually mean experience.

Why do you still get XP for killing rats when you have already killed 100 of them? Why not reward someone who has killed 100 rats with something linked to rats, like a bonus to damage or immunity from attack or something else.

Why not reward someone using a dagger and killing 100 things with a new skill related to daggers.

Why not reward someone who wears heavy armour for 100 hours with a reduction in weight or combat penalty.

Why not reward someone who has explored a region the ability to move faster within that region (no more pointless achievements but actually have them do something useful and linked to what you have done).

 

My main problem with game design is the formulated way they all are today and how artificial (of course it is a virtual game but you know what I mean) they are.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15331

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/23/14 4:13:56 PM#27
Originally posted by Maelwydd

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. I see quests as a way to pay the way for the style of life you want to live not as the main means for gaining experience.

For me, experience should actually mean experience.

Why do you still get XP for killing rats when you have already killed 100 of them? Why not reward someone who has killed 100 rats with something linked to rats, like a bonus to damage or immunity from attack or something else.

Why not reward someone using a dagger and killing 100 things with a new skill related to daggers.

Why not reward someone who wears heavy armour for 100 hours with a reduction in weight or combat penalty.

Why not reward someone who has explored a region the ability to move faster within that region (no more pointless achievements but actually have them do something useful and linked to what you have done).

 

My main problem with game design is the formulated way they all are today and how artificial (of course it is a virtual game but you know what I mean) they are.

I like those ideas, essentially a cohesion between actions and advancement. I"d say killing enough rats could give you a bonus to disease immunity. Killing crocs and other reptiles gives a bonus to arm/weapon swing, from swinging at tough hides/scales.

KIlling big cats grants a bonus to speed and agility so on and so forth.

I'd also say if anyone used a system like this they shouldn't add an achievement sheet with numbers to follow, instead handle it similar to Jedi in SWG PRE-cu. Essentially you don't know what you need to do how far along you are etc.. OR what you're going to get. Until you achieve it. THis way it's not so systematic and doesn't encourage long grinding sessions.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Kanester

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/08/10
Posts: 348

5/23/14 4:18:48 PM#28
Originally posted by Tgiordano92
Eh, I prefer voiced story focused quests such as ESO. I culd never play a game with WoW type quests again.

Well I thought the same, But after playing the voiced over games like TESO and SWTOR who spent most of the millions of dollars on voice actors, They can shove the voice overs up their ass's. Same with your action combat, Shove that up your ass too.

After playing the 'Modern' MMO's, Please, give us back old school. I await Archeage.

  Horusra

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2128

5/23/14 4:24:45 PM#29

ESO made quests that matter...people complained.  The problem is not quests that matter, but the really issue....QUEST THAT MATTER TO OTHER PEOPLE.  That is what this is about.  We want what we do to effect others.  We want to feel important.  MMO's are not providing that and people are not happy.  Use to our armor being special made us important and now that is gone.  So now we want quests to make us important?

 

  Hariken

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/13
Posts: 426

5/23/14 4:35:53 PM#30
Originally posted by Kanester
Originally posted by Tgiordano92
Eh, I prefer voiced story focused quests such as ESO. I culd never play a game with WoW type quests again.

Well I thought the same, But after playing the voiced over games like TESO and SWTOR who spent most of the millions of dollars on voice actors, They can shove the voice overs up their ass's. Same with your action combat, Shove that up your ass too.

After playing the 'Modern' MMO's, Please, give us back old school. I await Archeage.

Yeah this guys post made me facepalm. Spending millions to actors  for voice over work instead of making good content is whats wrong with every mmo since wow. And his generation of mmo players are afraid of reading text.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15331

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/23/14 4:37:00 PM#31
Originally posted by Horusra

ESO made quests that matter...people complained.  The problem is not quests that matter, but the really issue....QUEST THAT MATTER TO OTHER PEOPLE.  That is what this is about.  We want what we do to effect others.  We want to feel important.  MMO's are not providing that and people are not happy.  Use to our armor being special made us important and now that is gone.  So now we want quests to make us important?

 

I think the armor thing was more about player achievement over player importance, it was something to work toward, which is a key motivator in this genre. Much like having that yellow (legendary) junta mind poison dagger in SWG Pre-cu. It's a truly rare thing to accomplish ( at least the dagger I described).

I agree ESO's quests at least what I saw of them in beta, had a better approach than most in this genre, THe problem really did come down to it being too personal of an achievement for many MMO gamers. I think the key way forward is as I said above, more world cohesion. It's hard to do that though and it will be tricky to find ways to implement that, that doesn't in turn degrade others ability to achieve similar "fame".

 

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  redbug

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/16/05
Posts: 185

5/23/14 4:39:32 PM#32
Originally posted by samsweet
I would prefer a grinding group in eq1 over any questing. It was a slower pace and actually gave you a chance to get to know people in your group. Opposed to the "lets get this bs over with" feeling when you're sent to collect a bag of orc anuses.

Hahahahaha, to funny.

  Nephaerius

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1451

5/23/14 4:41:17 PM#33
No mark I'm sorry but clearly you don't have the capacity to make quests matter again. For evidence of this see firefall.

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15331

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/23/14 4:43:32 PM#34
Originally posted by Hariken
Originally posted by Kanester
Originally posted by Tgiordano92
Eh, I prefer voiced story focused quests such as ESO. I culd never play a game with WoW type quests again.

Well I thought the same, But after playing the voiced over games like TESO and SWTOR who spent most of the millions of dollars on voice actors, They can shove the voice overs up their ass's. Same with your action combat, Shove that up your ass too.

After playing the 'Modern' MMO's, Please, give us back old school. I await Archeage.

Yeah this guys post made me facepalm. Spending millions to actors  for voice over work instead of making good content is whats wrong with every mmo since wow. And his generation of mmo players are afraid of reading text.

The problem with reading in a game is too much of it makes a persons eyes heavy. This is pretty much scientific, and well known, it's a normal side effect of reading for an extended time.

It's also a lot harder to display emotion and a story of interesting value in text than it is with VO animation and cutscenes.

It has nothing to do with a fear of reading and everything to do with subpar writing and/or boring sleep inducing presentation.

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Horusra

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2128

5/23/14 4:46:18 PM#35
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Horusra

ESO made quests that matter...people complained.  The problem is not quests that matter, but the really issue....QUEST THAT MATTER TO OTHER PEOPLE.  That is what this is about.  We want what we do to effect others.  We want to feel important.  MMO's are not providing that and people are not happy.  Use to our armor being special made us important and now that is gone.  So now we want quests to make us important?

 

I think the armor thing was more about player achievement over player importance, it was something to work toward, which is a key motivator in this genre. Much like having that yellow (legendary) junta mind poison dagger in SWG Pre-cu. It's a truly rare thing to accomplish ( at least the dagger I described).

I agree ESO's quests at least what I saw of them in beta, had a better approach than most in this genre, THe problem really did come down to it being too personal of an achievement for many MMO gamers. I think the key way forward is as I said above, more world cohesion. It's hard to do that though and it will be tricky to find ways to implement that, that doesn't in turn degrade others ability to achieve similar "fame".

 

 

Cause what you are talking about is Single player games.  How much man hours would a developer have to put in, to make every players "important".  Face it the majority of us are not important in real life, why would be important in a game.  Saddly that is what most of us are looking for.  That pat on the back, the hug, the cupping of the balls to let us know we are important to someone.  The blank true is that we are not, but the striving to be is what makes us human...and causes some of us to be more than we can be (to steal a phrase).

  Utinni

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 329

5/23/14 4:50:59 PM#36
Less quests = quests more important. This has been shown in many games. Picking something up off the ground or killing 10 rats isn't a quest, it's filler.
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15331

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/23/14 4:53:17 PM#37
Originally posted by Horusra
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Horusra

ESO made quests that matter...people complained.  The problem is not quests that matter, but the really issue....QUEST THAT MATTER TO OTHER PEOPLE.  That is what this is about.  We want what we do to effect others.  We want to feel important.  MMO's are not providing that and people are not happy.  Use to our armor being special made us important and now that is gone.  So now we want quests to make us important?

 

I think the armor thing was more about player achievement over player importance, it was something to work toward, which is a key motivator in this genre. Much like having that yellow (legendary) junta mind poison dagger in SWG Pre-cu. It's a truly rare thing to accomplish ( at least the dagger I described).

I agree ESO's quests at least what I saw of them in beta, had a better approach than most in this genre, THe problem really did come down to it being too personal of an achievement for many MMO gamers. I think the key way forward is as I said above, more world cohesion. It's hard to do that though and it will be tricky to find ways to implement that, that doesn't in turn degrade others ability to achieve similar "fame".

 

 

Cause what you are talking about is Single player games.  How much man hours would a developer have to put in, to make every players "important".  Face it the majority of us are not important in real life, why would be important in a game.  Saddly that is what most of us are looking for.  That pat on the back, the hug, the cupping of the balls to let us know we are important to someone.  The blank true is that we are not, but the striving to be is what makes us human...and causes some of us to be more than we can be (to steal a phrase).

This is defeatist thinking in my eyes,"can't do it so why try" is all I really took away, I mean no offense. I think the key would be separating questing from it in a sense, and use player run mechanics to achieve this, but tie them to the story in a way (think a multi branching over-arching story, that is dictated by player action in the sandbox aspects of the game.)

This way depending on server the over-arching story could play out in different ways, so each server is in essence a different parallel of the same world.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2797

I actually still like MMORPGs

5/23/14 5:35:00 PM#38
Heritage quests in EQ2 were brilliant.

  grummz

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/07
Posts: 56

5/23/14 5:36:31 PM#39
Someone mentioned missing downtime. These days we speed around MMOs...and I do miss the downtime of original EQ and valued the friendships formed during those times. I wonder what we could do to bring back downtime in a positive way for a modern MMO audience. Might be a future topic for an article!

Follow me on <a href="https://twitter.com/grummz">Twitter: @Grummz</a>

  kabitoshin

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 666

5/23/14 6:00:10 PM#40
Originally posted by Utinni
Less quests = quests more important. This has been shown in many games. Picking something up off the ground or killing 10 rats isn't a quest, it's filler.

I agree I want less quests rather then 100's in one zone, at first I was enjoying ESO then after my 3rd zone I was sick of quests.

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