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ArcheAge

ArcheAge 

General Discussion  » Everyone Fight for 1.0 Changes during Beta!!! Bombard Trion to make the right changes!!

6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 » Search
105 posts found
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17618

5/23/14 11:39:36 AM#41
Originally posted by Cetra

The ganker has nothing to lose. While the trader has everything to lose.

Why would anyone be a trader when being a pvper is so much easier??

Its only 20%.  Give the trader some consolation and encouragment to do the trades.

No need to cry a river over this.

Again, just apply a greater penalty to the pirate if caught.

Conversely, there could also be greater rewards for traders if successful.

 

  blazehammer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/09
Posts: 20

5/23/14 11:44:10 AM#42
Ok, my 2 cents:

Pirates get 100%, they stoled 100% so it's simple nonsense to get less than 100%. But if they are caught they spends 24 hour in jail and pay 200% of the loot to the victim; if they don't have the money so 48hs in jail (account jail, so no second char without another account).

Traders pay a small tax everytime that they do a caravan (or whatever) and receive a compensation from the insurance company if they are stolen.

Simpliest way, everyone happy, and it will not happens because what we want isn't important to 99% of the softhouses.
  Foobarx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/16/14
Posts: 459

5/23/14 11:51:05 AM#43

Game A is chess, game B is tetris...

Player A wants tetris, player B wants chess...

If logic prevailed, player A would buy tetris and player B would by chess...

What usually happens is player A and buys both games and then demands that they both play like tetris... 

Player B also buys both games and then demands that they both play like chess...

In the end, we get games that are neither tetris or chess...

In retaliation, player A demands that tetris be made and player B demands that chess be made...

Player A buys both games and then demands that they both play like tetris...

Player B buys both games and then demands that they both play like chess...

In the end, the we get games that are neither tetris or chess...

In retaliation, player A demands that tetris be made and player B demands that chess be made...

In the end...

  ronderic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/02/11
Posts: 56

5/23/14 11:51:32 AM#44
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Cetra

The ganker has nothing to lose. While the trader has everything to lose.

Why would anyone be a trader when being a pvper is so much easier??

Its only 20%.  Give the trader some consolation and encouragment to do the trades.

No need to cry a river over this.

Again, just apply a greater penalty to the pirate if caught.

Conversely, there could also be greater rewards for traders if successful.

 

Sorry, but just so many comments from people in this thread who have NO idea what they are talking about - have not even played the game.

I have been playing it for over a year now and I can tell you it is the simplest thing in the world to do a trade run to the other continent and earn gilda stars. We do it with 1-2 tradeships about 3 times a day. Yes, sometimes (rarely) we have a fight and lose some packs - its fun. Tradepacks are cheap (and I mean really cheap), there is no loss of xp or anything else apart from the tradepack.

It does assume you are travelling with a group - yes folks, this game NEEDS a group. If you want to play solo, play wow.

Otherwise in the game it is completely possible to avoid pvp altogethter. The inner continental trade runs (thru safe zones) will still be there, albeit just for gold and not gilda stars. With gold you can buy ANYTHING off the AH - even house, boat and vehical plans.

The 80/20 split is just a measure to try and placate the many vocal people like yourselves but even Trion has not yet made a final decision.

Play the game first as it is now, and THEN make suggestions please.

 

You can please some MMO-players all of the time and you can please all MMO-players some of the time but you can't please all MMO-players all of the time.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16843

5/23/14 11:52:19 AM#45
Originally posted by blazehammer
Ok, my 2 cents:

Pirates get 100%, they stoled 100% so it's simple nonsense to get less than 100%. But if they are caught they spends 24 hour in jail and pay 200% of the loot to the victim; if they don't have the money so 48hs in jail (account jail, so no second char without another account).

Traders pay a small tax everytime that they do a caravan (or whatever) and receive a compensation from the insurance company if they are stolen.

Simpliest way, everyone happy, and it will not happens because what we want isn't important to 99% of the softhouses.

Change it to 5 days instead of 2 and I'm with you (even though I still liked that idea about losing body parts ;).

Not playing a second day instead of coughing up a large fee is too lenient, that is one day of play or a huge sum.

Risk Vs reward, I like it otherwise.

  Rylah

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/25/09
Posts: 191

5/23/14 11:52:57 AM#46

The whole system is borked . Non local auction house means that the artificial "trade runs" with generic "goods" make no sense at all for the economy but are only there as a risky way to gamble for income. So artificial limits and half baken reasoning are probably perfectly fine.

  kridak

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/22/13
Posts: 10

5/23/14 11:54:32 AM#47
Originally posted by sludgebeard
Just to be clear, Trion has made a proper solution with the 20/80 split. It's a decent solution, but I feel like the original way of trader taking all the risk is more realistic and that they should have player run insurance agency's.

 

The solution is ridiculous on so many levels it is not funny.  

As i have said before, the pirate should get 100% of the lootage.  

Now what should the pirate get if caught?  That is the real question. Archeage will stay a pirates paradise.

And as i said before, more power to them...if a system is this flawed i do not blame their abusing it lol.

What people may find is that traders simply won't risk it as it is better to get 50% value in a safe zone than 20% in a dangerous zone because you got pirated.  

shrug

  coorsguys

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/20/13
Posts: 312

5/23/14 11:56:33 AM#48
The "right changes"?  By who's definition?  Just reading this thread you have 50 different views of "right" but feel free to bombard them, I'm sure they have nothing else going on...
  coretex666

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1839

"I shall take your position into consideration"

5/23/14 12:02:28 PM#49
Originally posted by Foobarx

Game A is chess, game B is tetris...

Player A wants tetris, player B wants chess...

If logic prevailed, player A would buy tetris and player B would by chess...

What usually happens is player A and buys both games and then demands that they both play like tetris... 

Player B also buys both games and then demands that they both play like chess...

In the end, we get games that are neither tetris or chess...

In retaliation, player A demands that tetris be made and player B demands that chess be made...

Player A buys both games and then demands that they both play like tetris...

Player B buys both games and then demands that they both play like chess...

In the end, the we get games that are neither tetris or chess...

In retaliation, player A demands that tetris be made and player B demands that chess be made...

In the end...

I agree.

When I personally do not like a game, I do not demand any changes to it. I simply ignore it. I would say it is an adequate behavior you would expect from an average adult person.

Here you are reading about petitions and how the game has to change. People are making number of posts how it is griefers paradise and how people interested in PVE are screwed by this game.

I think good old "if you dont like it, dont play it" applies here.

Only if the developer sees the demand is below budgeted levels, then they may want to consider any eventual changes to the design. Considering that there is a decent demand for the Alpha package at a price of 150 USD, I do not think they need to consider any changes you are suggesting.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  IfrianMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/12
Posts: 215

5/23/14 12:05:06 PM#50

Despite being a FFA PVPER i do agree with gankers having to run risks just as much as PVE players do.

Right now, there is barely no risk involved in ganking but lots of profit to be done, whereas this is not true when it comes to PVE players, that run and trade entirely under their own risks and consequences.

Put some (equally) hardcore punishement against gankers that fail to gank and see how many truly love pvp.

  Madimorga

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 2012

5/23/14 12:12:06 PM#51
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by Foobarx

Game A is chess, game B is tetris...

Player A wants tetris, player B wants chess...

If logic prevailed, player A would buy tetris and player B would by chess...

What usually happens is player A and buys both games and then demands that they both play like tetris... 

Player B also buys both games and then demands that they both play like chess...

In the end, we get games that are neither tetris or chess...

In retaliation, player A demands that tetris be made and player B demands that chess be made...

Player A buys both games and then demands that they both play like tetris...

Player B buys both games and then demands that they both play like chess...

In the end, the we get games that are neither tetris or chess...

In retaliation, player A demands that tetris be made and player B demands that chess be made...

In the end...

I agree.

When I personally do not like a game, I do not demand any changes to it. I simply ignore it. I would say it is an adequate behavior you would expect from an average adult person.

Here you are reading about petitions and how the game has to change. People are making number of posts how it is griefers paradise and how people interested in PVE are screwed by this game.

I think good old "if you dont like it, dont play it" applies here.

Only if the developer sees the demand is below budgeted levels, then they may want to consider any eventual changes to the design. Considering that there is a decent demand for the Alpha package at a price of 150 USD, I do not think they need to consider any changes you are suggesting.

Or gamers could be smart about it and let devs know what we want, and if that happens to be a sandbox without gankers, be sure to say so.

 

Because you better believe in every game I've played in the past few years that didn't have an open world pvp server, the pvp crowd came in and asked for one.  So I figure, us PVE players are making a big mistake by not doing the same in reverse.

 

In the end, Trion can do what it wants  As can any game developer.   But we players need to be sure they know what we will and won't spend our money on.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  coretex666

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1839

"I shall take your position into consideration"

5/23/14 12:28:47 PM#52
Originally posted by Madimorga
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by Foobarx

Game A is chess, game B is tetris...

Player A wants tetris, player B wants chess...

If logic prevailed, player A would buy tetris and player B would by chess...

What usually happens is player A and buys both games and then demands that they both play like tetris... 

Player B also buys both games and then demands that they both play like chess...

In the end, we get games that are neither tetris or chess...

In retaliation, player A demands that tetris be made and player B demands that chess be made...

Player A buys both games and then demands that they both play like tetris...

Player B buys both games and then demands that they both play like chess...

In the end, the we get games that are neither tetris or chess...

In retaliation, player A demands that tetris be made and player B demands that chess be made...

In the end...

I agree.

When I personally do not like a game, I do not demand any changes to it. I simply ignore it. I would say it is an adequate behavior you would expect from an average adult person.

Here you are reading about petitions and how the game has to change. People are making number of posts how it is griefers paradise and how people interested in PVE are screwed by this game.

I think good old "if you dont like it, dont play it" applies here.

Only if the developer sees the demand is below budgeted levels, then they may want to consider any eventual changes to the design. Considering that there is a decent demand for the Alpha package at a price of 150 USD, I do not think they need to consider any changes you are suggesting.

Or gamers could be smart about it and let devs know what we want, and if that happens to be a sandbox without gankers, be sure to say so.

 

Because you better believe in every game I've played in the past few years that didn't have an open world pvp server, the pvp crowd came in and asked for one.  So I figure, us PVE players are making a big mistake by not doing the same in reverse.

 

In the end, Trion can do what it wants  As can any game developer.   But we players need to be sure they know what we will and won't spend our money on.

What "we" want. You mean what "I" want?

How about the people who like the game the way it is? What is in it for them?

Do you think that the level of demand for the game indicates that the game needs to change?

Do you have anything to base your requests on besides your own personal preferences?

And because some immature people whom you refer to as the  "PvP crowd" were asking for changes to some games you liked, you now feel this type of behavior is ok?

I would probably also demand changes to the games I do not like if I was a teenager or even a kid, but that is not how adults behave.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  Madimorga

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 2012

5/23/14 12:42:14 PM#53
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by Madimorga
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by Foobarx

Game A is chess, game B is tetris...

Player A wants tetris, player B wants chess...

If logic prevailed, player A would buy tetris and player B would by chess...

What usually happens is player A and buys both games and then demands that they both play like tetris... 

Player B also buys both games and then demands that they both play like chess...

In the end, we get games that are neither tetris or chess...

In retaliation, player A demands that tetris be made and player B demands that chess be made...

Player A buys both games and then demands that they both play like tetris...

Player B buys both games and then demands that they both play like chess...

In the end, the we get games that are neither tetris or chess...

In retaliation, player A demands that tetris be made and player B demands that chess be made...

In the end...

I agree.

When I personally do not like a game, I do not demand any changes to it. I simply ignore it. I would say it is an adequate behavior you would expect from an average adult person.

Here you are reading about petitions and how the game has to change. People are making number of posts how it is griefers paradise and how people interested in PVE are screwed by this game.

I think good old "if you dont like it, dont play it" applies here.

Only if the developer sees the demand is below budgeted levels, then they may want to consider any eventual changes to the design. Considering that there is a decent demand for the Alpha package at a price of 150 USD, I do not think they need to consider any changes you are suggesting.

Or gamers could be smart about it and let devs know what we want, and if that happens to be a sandbox without gankers, be sure to say so.

 

Because you better believe in every game I've played in the past few years that didn't have an open world pvp server, the pvp crowd came in and asked for one.  So I figure, us PVE players are making a big mistake by not doing the same in reverse.

 

In the end, Trion can do what it wants  As can any game developer.   But we players need to be sure they know what we will and won't spend our money on.

What "we" want. You mean what "I" want?

How about the people who like the game the way it is? What is in it for them?

Do you think that the level of demand for the game indicates that the game needs to change?

Do you have anything to base your requests on besides your own personal preferences?

And because some immature people whom you refer to as the  "PvP crowd" were asking for changes to some games you liked, you now feel this type of behavior is ok?

I would probably also demand changes to the games I do not like if I was a teenager or even a kid, but that is not how adults behave.

I'm very aware if it's just me, it will never happen.  Devs don't make games just for me.  I'm not only just one person, I'm not even rich!

 

However, I don't think it is just me.

 

In addition, except for gankers who enjoy PvP against those who don't want to PvP, it wouldn't hurt and in fact would help the PvP crowd if devs stopped trying to attract carebears to their open world PvP servers and created servers with multiple rulesets or sandbox games for PVE players, instead of trying to get us to play together on the same server, which does nothing to make anyone happy.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  syriinx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 996

5/23/14 1:23:39 PM#54

ArcheAge is a PvP game.

PvE players need to understand this and push for a PvE sandbox like SWG was.  Not try to make ArcheAge something it isnt.

 

Im a PvE player that wont be playing ArcheAge.  And Im okay with that.

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1307

5/23/14 1:54:20 PM#55
Originally posted by syriinx

ArcheAge is a PvP game.

PvE players need to understand this and push for a PvE sandbox like SWG was.  Not try to make ArcheAge something it isnt.

 

Im a PvE player that wont be playing ArcheAge.  And Im okay with that.

This right here should be quoted, etched in stone, printed on plaques and become required learning for everyone playing MMOs.

Among all the "wtf are they thinking?" type attitudes, remarks and actions I see from people, this one is one of the most confusing to me - because the solution is so simple and self-evident that most people do it - in most every other aspect of their lives - without thinking about it. It's instinctual.

Example.

You want a steak. A really good steak. 

You don't go to a restaurant specializing in Vegetarian cuisine and demand they add meat to the menu, because you want to eat a cow. You go to a steakhouse where making a really good steak is what they specialize in.

If you  like heavy metal music, you don't go to a Country Western show and demand they start playing heavy metal covers. You go somewhere that specializes in bands who play heavy metal covers.

And on and on. I'm sure every single person reading this post could list off a dozen examples of how they follow that very same logic, every day, with a hundred other things, without even thinking about it. You just do it because it's the rational, sane thing to do.

Yet, somehow... when it comes to MMOs, that all goes out the window. We end up in some Twilight Zone, where people regularly go into forums for games that clearly don't cater to the playstyle they're seeking, and begin demanding the developers change their game to suit them. Often, they resort to insulting, or dismissing the people for whom the game actually is intended and whom are there following the game for the right reasons.

If you want a PvP MMO experience, go look up games that focus around PvP. If you want a PvE only experience, look into games that focus around PvE.  

Simple! Why do so many people not seem to get this?

There are literally hundreds of choices out there. Surely one of them will satisfy your preferences "out of the box". 

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17618

5/23/14 1:58:46 PM#56
Originally posted by syriinx

ArcheAge is a PvP game.

PvE players need to understand this and push for a PvE sandbox like SWG was.  Not try to make ArcheAge something it isnt.

 

Im a PvE player that wont be playing ArcheAge.  And Im okay with that.

Actualy I don't think archeage is a pvp game. I know some people "think this" but if you look at the game you will see that there are significant activities that take up a lot of time such as "crafting".

Perhaps we could then say "archeage is a crafting game".

If archeage was a "pvp game" then you wouldn't have times when there were no pvp in certain areas. Or one continent dedicated to pvp when the other two are not.

Archeage is a game that has pvp and it is a very palpable presence. But in no way do I think of the game as "a pvp game".

Lineage 2 was a pvp game. Darkfall is a pvp game.

  Madimorga

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 2012

5/23/14 2:08:08 PM#57
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by syriinx

ArcheAge is a PvP game.

PvE players need to understand this and push for a PvE sandbox like SWG was.  Not try to make ArcheAge something it isnt.

 

Im a PvE player that wont be playing ArcheAge.  And Im okay with that.

This right here should be quoted, etched in stone, printed on plaques and become required learning for everyone playing MMOs.

Among all the "wtf are they thinking?" type attitudes, remarks and actions I see from people, this one is one of the most confusing to me - because the solution is so simple and self-evident that most people do it - in most every other aspect of their lives - without thinking about it. It's instinctual.

Example.

You want a steak. A really good steak. 

You don't go to a restaurant specializing in Vegetarian cuisine and demand they add meat to the menu, because you want to eat a cow. You go to a steakhouse where making a really good steak is what they specialize in.

If you  like heavy metal music, you don't go to a Country Western show and demand they start playing heavy metal covers. You go somewhere that specializes in bands who play heavy metal covers.

And on and on. I'm sure every single person reading this post could list off a dozen examples of how they follow that very same logic, every day, with a hundred other things, without even thinking about it. You just do it because it's the rational, sane thing to do.

Yet, somehow... when it comes to MMOs, that all goes out the window. We end up in some Twilight Zone, where people regularly go into forums for games that clearly don't cater to the playstyle they're seeking, and begin demanding the developers change their game to suit them. Often, they resort to insulting, or dismissing the people for whom the game actually is intended and whom are there following the game for the right reasons.

If you want a PvP MMO experience, go look up games that focus around PvP. If you want a PvE only experience, look into games that focus around PvE.  

Simple! Why do so many people not seem to get this?

There are literally hundreds of choices out there. Surely one of them will satisfy your preferences "out of the box". 

I want to sit down and have a steak with rock music playing in the background . I really detest country music, but I love steak.  And there is only one steak place in town. Sadly the one and only place to have a steak is playing country music.  The other places all serve vegetarian food.  

 

So I go to see if maybe the steak house would like my business enough to open up a backroom and play rock music in it. Meanwhile, Sue likes steak so much that, even though she hates country music, she shuts up and goes to eat her steak with country music playing.  But after a few visits, she can't stomach the music anymore and quits going there.  She doesn't tell the owner why, she just goes to the vegetarian place down the street that plays rock music and gives up on steak.

 

Don't be like Sue.  If you want steak and rock music, or steak and country music, or veggies and country music with a side of country rock, or anything else, ask for it.  All anyone can do is say no.  But if enough people want something and have money to buy it, and ask for it, someone is going to give it to them.  

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  Mothanos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1885

5/23/14 2:09:33 PM#58

Archeage is a full ffa open world pvp game.......
I cant wait to farm those traders all day every day !!
Its the most fun this game has to offer !!!

Dont like it ? pve themeparks that -----------> way


jeez how hard is it to understand that this mmo offers something unique ?
Go with numbers or die alone.
This mmo screams group play...

And here we have the people thinking its a pve game -_-
Come on this is the best pvp game comming out in a decade !

  syriinx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 996

5/23/14 2:19:28 PM#59
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by syriinx

ArcheAge is a PvP game.

PvE players need to understand this and push for a PvE sandbox like SWG was.  Not try to make ArcheAge something it isnt.

 

Im a PvE player that wont be playing ArcheAge.  And Im okay with that.

Actualy I don't think archeage is a pvp game. I know some people "think this" but if you look at the game you will see that there are significant activities that take up a lot of time such as "crafting".

Perhaps we could then say "archeage is a crafting game".

If archeage was a "pvp game" then you wouldn't have times when there were no pvp in certain areas. Or one continent dedicated to pvp when the other two are not.

Archeage is a game that has pvp and it is a very palpable presence. But in no way do I think of the game as "a pvp game".

Lineage 2 was a pvp game. Darkfall is a pvp game.

ArcheAge is also a crafting game, or more accurately a gathering game.  But it is designed so higher end activities have a PvP exposure.  Its like trying to say EvE isnt a PvP game.  

People need to understand this, and accept this, because its part of what makes ArcheAge ArcheAge.  

 

There does need to be PvE sandbox options, but ArcheAge wouldnt work as one IMO for reasons i wont get into here because I want to keep it positive.  ArcheAge seems to be a very good game for its target (niche) audience, and if they tinker with the game's design at this stage to please everybody they will please nobody.  Just ask SoE and LucasArts.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

5/23/14 2:29:29 PM#60

As many people here have said, the issue here isn't about PvP vs. PvE or "carebears."  This is about the risk/reward ratio of traders and pirates being WAY too different.

The trader risks a LOT.  The cost of their trade pack, the time they spend running the trade, and their boat.  The pirate risks basically nothing...a few minutes in jail time, which is nearly always less than the amount of time it would take to run an actual trade.  AND that is only if they get caught.

In addition, you can wind up getting a lot more gilda starts through piracy because you don't need to actually run the packs...people just bring them to you.  This is stupid, it makes piracy, a very low risk, high reward activity; and trading a very high risk, medium reward activity.

The problem is the penalty for piracy...I love the court system, but the penalties are a joke.  Big deal, 12 minutes in jail...Oooohhh.  And even if someone commits enough crimes to get a lot of time in jail...all that means is that they go AFK for a night and they are back to piracy the next day.  And they can even escape if they want to.

The penalties need to be redone so that people actually want to avoid them.  Here's an idea...how about penalties are in gold and/or gilda stars.  Instead of 12 minutes in jail, it's 12 gold or 3 gilda stars...something like that.  These fines could be redistributed to victims of the crimes.  You probably wouldn't get back what you lost...but it would be nice to know that if you get ganked and robbed you may one day get some kind of compensation for it.

Even better, make it so that if the pirate can't afford the fines levied on them, then the court would randomly repossess one of their good items (quality depending on the amount they owe), and they wouldn't get it back until they pay off their debt.

I bet that people would think twice about piracy if you stand to lose 15 gilda stars if you are caught.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

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