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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Are consoles going to hurt the MMORPG genre?

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69 posts found
  Asm0deus

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Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 800

5/22/14 8:00:59 AM#21
It already has, just look at the recent games.

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  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5168

5/22/14 8:03:43 AM#22

Nope - PCs are still the core focus of MMORPGs for several reasons:

1. Cost - yes consoles have more dev overhead due to dev kits, certification processes, physical box sales etc...

2. MMORPG with lots of skills to chose from (and yes more than 8 active ones) - Keyboad + Mouse wins (yes you can attach it to a console but most folks don't have a desk in their living room in front of their TV)

3. Hosting - much easier for PCs - no integration for Xbox/PS networks to get online games running

4. XboxOne / PS4 are pretty underpowered still - and each year they will be FAR more underpowered due to exponential increase in PC performance. By 2016 the current console hardware will be junk.

 

 

 

 

  Tbau

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/14
Posts: 407

5/22/14 8:04:54 AM#23
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

I believe designing MMOs for consoles will.

Will? They already have.

Personally I don't care if a company makes an MMO for both the PC and Console that's dumbed down beyond belief and has 1-8 action slots to provide the most mundane combat that gets boring after a week...its when companies look at that and then makes a PC only MMORPG with the same dumbed down gameplay and limited combat that pisses me off........and that is what we are getting a lot of lately.

 

MMORPGs with terribly limited combat and over simplified gameplay on the PC.

 

This will only get worse as companies try to make these games playable on mobile devices as well.

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4109

5/22/14 8:07:36 AM#24
No because PC already destroyed it in the course of the last 10 years
  Adamantine

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Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3316

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5/22/14 8:18:39 AM#25

...

Consoles have been around for AGES.

Why would they start to hurt the genre NOW ?!?

Also, meh. Of course consoles will make crappier MMOs. Thats what consoles do - right ? Lots of crap games.

  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 936

5/22/14 8:59:42 AM#26
Originally posted by DMKano

Nope - PCs are still the core focus of MMORPGs for several reasons:

1. Cost - yes consoles have more dev overhead due to dev kits, certification processes, physical box sales etc...

2. MMORPG with lots of skills to chose from (and yes more than 8 active ones) - Keyboad + Mouse wins (yes you can attach it to a console but most folks don't have a desk in their living room in front of their TV)

3. Hosting - much easier for PCs - no integration for Xbox/PS networks to get online games running

4. XboxOne / PS4 are pretty underpowered still - and each year they will be FAR more underpowered due to exponential increase in PC performance. By 2016 the current console hardware will be junk.

Ok, I'll bite. 

 

1) The cost of development isn't, really, a barrier. Both Sony and Microsoft are working to create a more "indie-friendly" program. I agree, dev kits do cost a lot of money, but for "actual" studios, they almost never pay for them, especially when a new console is on the way. For many studios dev kits get lent to them and, many times, these units never make it back to them, or it takes years to get back to them. However, yes, there is a perceived cost barrier, for sure. I don't know what dev kits run for now, but they're generally pretty expensive. 

 

2) Good or bad, MMORPGs seem to be trending away from huge lists of active skills. There's good reason, too. Just because you're given 8 o 12 active skills doesn't mean these get used often (if ever). On my gaming keyboard I have two rows of 6 keys for my hotbar items, but 95% of the time, I'm only using the first row. The other skills are click skills, because of mishits. I do have 12 skills I actively use, but find it less intrusive to flip to my second hotbar than hit the second row of hot keys, although I do have smaller fingers than most, so this is definitely an impact. KB+M on console isn't as ludacris as it might seem, either. I actually play about 50% of my gametime in bed, laying down. Ultimately, though, I think there can be a good controller integration. My main interest in KB+M would be things like chat. 

 

3) Hosting what? Playstation has had MMOs since PS3 (FreeRealms specifically). Prior to that, there was Phantasy Star Online. Final Fantasy has been on there. ESO is coming. So free and sub games alike seem to be finding the infrastructure. 

 

4) Underpowered compared to what? The problem with that statement is that there hasn't been a PC MMO released, yet, which can't run on 6 year-old hardware. There probably never will be. So the 1% of us who can actually play ESO on Ultra settings can always say that console hardware is underpowered, but the majority of people never upgrade their video card. In fact, I have 6 computers in my house and only 1 is remotely sexy. Even with that one I don't play MMOs on ultra because it still doesn't perform well. High is great. On my other computers, though, I generally run and mid to low. Unless you have some stats show that the install base for high-end graphics cards made in the last 6 months is somehow more than 1%, consoles actually perform better. It's a known platform that can be pushed to the limits, and they can take liberties with the hardware, and also make assumptions about it, because they don't have to fight for things like cpu/gpu time, etc. 

Crazkanuk

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  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11430

5/22/14 9:06:00 AM#27
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
 Unlike you people on PC - I HAVE VIBRATE.

ha - nice

  ChicagoCub

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 304

5/22/14 9:09:15 AM#28

10 fingers vs. four.  You tell me.

  Flyte27

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2255

5/22/14 9:17:28 AM#29
I would argue that MMO combat has already been dumbed down to the point where it is easier regardless of amount of buttons.  Dark Souls is a controller only game and it's combat/strategy is more complex then pretty much any MMO you will see out today.  Unfortunately the day when MMOs were primarily very complex real time turn based games seems to be over.  Now you generally win without having to put in much effort.  If you fail to win you can always pull out your credit card.
  ThomasN7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6654

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5/22/14 9:28:14 AM#30
The mmo genre hurts the mmo genre because mmos are not that good anymore. Everything is the same game with a different theme settings, rehashed ideas and just about everything is dumbed down for the masses. People just turn to other games or even different platforms for their gaming entertainment because mmos have become pretty disappointing. 
  Distopia

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Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15535

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5/22/14 9:28:31 AM#31
Originally posted by Asm0deus
It already has, just look at the recent games.

Doesn't really add up considering they're not much different than games releasing for the PC only, going all the way back to 05. IE GW1, The Matrix OL, COH/V ( outside of deep character building it was a very shallow game especially environmentally not unlike the matrix MMO), so on and so forth. YOu're blaming consoles for what was essentially caused by chasing the casual market WOW style.

How many MMO's actually try and release on consoles? I can think of just a few... FF, DCUO, AOC and ESO. The rest seem to have no plans what so ever of doing so.

Again the pursuit of the casual market is what people should really be blaming here, not consoles.

 

 

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  Asm0deus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 800

5/22/14 10:27:32 AM#32
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Asm0deus
It already has, just look at the recent games.

Doesn't really add up considering they're not much different than games releasing for the PC only, going all the way back to 05. IE GW1, The Matrix OL, COH/V ( outside of deep character building it was a very shallow game especially environmentally not unlike the matrix MMO), so on and so forth. YOu're blaming consoles for what was essentially caused by chasing the casual market WOW style.

How many MMO's actually try and release on consoles? I can think of just a few... FF, DCUO, AOC and ESO. The rest seem to have no plans what so ever of doing so.

Again the pursuit of the casual market is what people should really be blaming here, not consoles.

 

 

Many of the recent mmo have been designed with limitation due to having to be compatible with controllers and to work with consoles.

There is no denying they are trying to tap into the console market and it is affecting how they make mmo.

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  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15535

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5/22/14 11:01:09 AM#33
Originally posted by Asm0deus
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Asm0deus
It already has, just look at the recent games.

Doesn't really add up considering they're not much different than games releasing for the PC only, going all the way back to 05. IE GW1, The Matrix OL, COH/V ( outside of deep character building it was a very shallow game especially environmentally not unlike the matrix MMO), so on and so forth. YOu're blaming consoles for what was essentially caused by chasing the casual market WOW style.

How many MMO's actually try and release on consoles? I can think of just a few... FF, DCUO, AOC and ESO. The rest seem to have no plans what so ever of doing so.

Again the pursuit of the casual market is what people should really be blaming here, not consoles.

 

 

Many of the recent mmo have been designed with limitation due to having to be compatible with controllers and to work with consoles.

There is no denying they are trying to tap into the console market and it is affecting how they make mmo.

Many? I'm not trying to give you a hard time but I can only think of two recent MMORPG's that have any sight on consoles FFXIV and ESO. That's not exactly many in my eyes.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

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  phoenix_genma_ken

Novice Member

Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 33

5/22/14 11:08:50 AM#34

guy say consoles are cancer...lol

go play the metal gear saga

the uncharted series

Little big planet games

the jak and daxter series

the kingdom hearts series

gran turismo series and many many many more

thx that consoles are still here,they have the best AAA games out there

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19003

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5/22/14 11:09:04 AM#35
Originally posted by Flyte27
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Yes I think they  will.

that said I think consoles are a cancer on the entire gaming industry.

Lol, here's the thing, consoles have brought games into the living room, making it more accessible to a larger market, and provided a single, solitary platform to develop against. How that is cancerous for the gaming industry, I fail to see. 

 

Well the issue is then developers are encouraged to design MMORPGS to a lower common denominator in terms of hardware and player base. This limits what these titles could have become in order to cater to the greatest potential profit.

That doesn't really have anything to do with consoles.  World of Warcraft has used the same graphics for years and is only finally upgrading now.  Most people are just not interested in buying a gaming PC these days.  I'm not sure they ever were.  It's a niche market.

The industry needs to develop more towards a niche market if it every hopes to really advance the genre.  We won't get VR based games and other improvements if they worry too much about people not being willing to spend the money for the headsets and what not.

 

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  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

5/22/14 11:17:28 AM#36
Originally posted by phoenix_genma_ken

guy say consoles are cancer...lol

go play the metal gear saga

the uncharted series

Little big planet games

the jak and daxter series

the kingdom hearts series

gran turismo series and many many many more

thx that consoles are still here,they have the best AAA games out there

Precisely. There are many great games that would not exist if the console culture had not existed.

 

Currently the option is: either you own just a PC, or you own a PC + consoles. 

  chronoss2015

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/14
Posts: 107

5/22/14 11:22:31 AM#37

yes 

 

dumbed down key use and lack a mouse use , all make for mister stupid games ( my view) 

 

on flipside the stupi dpeople that buy them are often stupid rich and will gte lots of games and paystupid prices for crap.

this means more games but less quality

 

we see games launch with such shit that if they were car products you'd be seeing a recall order from a judge and lawsuits

 

add the fact you start off when they new on level playign field gf wise and just suck money out of your console users for years and dont get card upgrades while us pc users move WELL ON....

 

the fact is consoles suck in this respect totally 

  severius

Elite Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1527

5/22/14 11:44:53 AM#38
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

I believe designing MMOs for consoles will. I had pre ordered FFXIV and enjoyed the game for several months. But one thing was clear, the game was designed for an aging console platform. Every where you went, you were always in a tunnel, you could hardly walk in any direction without running into a wall. Limitations of the PS3 was what I heard explained. EQN is going to introduce a controller friendly combat system. And I doubt it will be great. 

I have recently taken up playing a new game of Skyrim. And while this is one of my all time favorite video games, one thing that I am painfully aware of, every minute I play is that it's a console game. The menu system is awful for someone with a keyboard. I also miss some the MMORPG flavored combat, again, to meet the action style of a controller.

It just seems to me that Hybrid designs in this genre will sacrifice too much on both sides to work with the other. Console gamers will have too much action removed and most menu systems will end up being overly clunky And PC gamers will lose their complex combat systems and will also have to deal with the overly clunkiness of controller friendly menu systems. Etc etc.

And while the major positive is that the genre is now open to an entirely new market, I still wonder how long this new market will stick with any one given title. So now we have games that are designed to work within the limitations of a console, but after a few short months, many of those console players have moved on to the next title.

Those are my concerns, But what of the benefits? And what are some other concerns?

For all intents and purposes consoles are on their last legs.  They exist because computers were too damn expensive and not really designed with multimedia at their heart.  As computers are getting smaller and less expensive the reason for a playstation, nintendo or xbox become less and less especially as those are getting more and more expensive.  Why spend 4 or 5 hundred on a console when you can spend that on a computer for equal performance and more utility?  Then in 3 years you buy a new video card, slide out the old, slide in the new and you are set for the lifecycle of that generation's consoles and into the next gen.  Kinect is probably the only thing that is actually "revolutionary" for this generation but like betamax and smellovision it isn't enough as evidenced with Microsoft's debundling of Kinect and the xbone.


  BadOrb

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Joined: 1/11/13
Posts: 739

5/22/14 11:52:57 AM#39

I think you title is wrong to start with , so your side of the argument , it shouldn't be future tense at all , MMO's have been on console since 1998-99. Now a good example of the limitations programmed into an MMO because it was on a console is PSU , it was limited in the fact there was no hard drive worldwide on the PS2. granted it wasn't really SEGA's fault ( how things change though ;/ ) as it was supposed to have a HD but it got ditched. SO in that sense yes consoles have already hurt the MMORPG genre years ago.

 

Now your other argument falls flat on it's face , I have a 360 controller and play a PC MMO using 40 skills from my skill bar with ease. Consoles have always used a keyboard to communicate and use emotes ( PSO in 1999 ) so that's another mute argument.

 

So come to 2014 all consoles have large HD's in them so there are no more excuses really. So it has been the developers fault mostly. They can easily have many skills designed to use on a controller they just chose not to.

 

A personal opinion is , with all the BS that comes with PC's then I much preferred my console MMO days , for which I played for about 10 - 11 years. A console only MMO would be great , or make completely separate versions for console and PC.

 

Cheers,

BadOrb.

PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

5/22/14 11:55:49 AM#40
Originally posted by severius
 Why spend 4 or 5 hundred on a console when you can spend that on a computer for equal performance and more utility?  

Because every middle class home already has a computer and as long as there exists multiple great console-exclusive titles there is a reason to pay for them. 

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