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News & Features Discussion  » Hex: Wizards of the Coast Files Suit Against Cryptozoic

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103 posts found
  redgang1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/14/14
Posts: 36

5/15/14 3:40:27 AM#41
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by redgang1
Is it even possible to sue a game in closed beta? Anything can change at any time. Seems like a misplay on Wizards part on multiple levels.

Yes they can. the code is written and made available to the public. Calling it beta and saying it might change doesn't change the fact that they copied something they shouldn't have. 

Beta is really just extended testing though. They didn't technically copy it until they release it that way. They could change the entire game in beta and claim that was their plan all along, completely thwarting the lawsuit.

  Ginaz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1726

5/15/14 3:51:00 AM#42

Unless they intend to drag this out and delay the release of Hex in hopes of out spending Cryptozoic on legal fees and bleeding Crypto dry, Hasbro/WotC don't have much of a case.  Cryptozoic also made the WoW TCG, which was very similar to both Magic AND Hex, and WotC did nothing about it.  A judge can look at that and say "Well, you did nothing in the past about it so don't come into court expecting relief now" with the legal term being estoppel.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel

The reason they're acting now is because they are very worried that Hex is going to curb stomp them online.  Magic's online version is an absolute piece of shit that hasn't been updated or improved in over 10 years and they haven't been inclined to do anything about it because "You'll play our shit pile of an online offering and you'll like it!  What are you going to do?  Where are you going to go?".  Now that there is an option that is very much like Magic but with a much more modern and robust online game, WotC are worried.

All that aside, copyright law doesn't preclude someone else making a similar game based on similar principles. 

"Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles. Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form.
Material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container may be registrable."

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html

Most of the above info I got from members of my Hex guild who know much more about this sort of thing than I do.

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  Mors.Magne

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1432

5/15/14 4:12:12 AM#43

I reckon the underlying problem is that Hearthstone is the massive success that MTGO should have been, and now Wizards is under pressure and fighting for survival - doing everything it can. 

 

The reason why I think that MTGO might be fighting for survival is that in order to continue as they are, the number of new players has to at least equal the number of people who no longer wish to play MTGO. Heathstone could totally mess that equation up for Wizards, which means they have to do something or lay people off etc.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5342

5/15/14 4:32:46 AM#44
Originally posted by Ikonis

Did any of you people attacking WoTC even read the lawsuit? 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/224144304/Wizards-of-the-Coast-v-Cryptozoic-Entertainment-et-al

They have a very good reason. How many card games has there been since Magic? Why haven't all those tons and tons of games not been sued? Because they didn't go out of their way to clone Magic. They actually brought entirely new game play mechanics.  Hex copied Magic beat for beat. The colors, tapping, turn sequence, resolution rules, resource management, everything. All they did was change some names. It is the exact same game. 

Hence, why they could release the Alpha so quickly after the KS.

I am glad I got the refund last year!  As if Cryptozoid isn't willing to settle, this is going to get ugly and they might end up just shutting it down and People can say all their KS Money goodbye!

  Gadareth

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 309

5/15/14 4:47:42 AM#45

Ok to make this simpler how exactly is Hex DIFFERENT from MTG ? Give me 10 points which Hex has which MTG doesnt ...

 

 

  User Deleted
5/15/14 5:02:48 AM#46

Kind of strange, considering you can't copyright game mechanics.  Patent infringement seems really unlikely as well, unless Hex is actually using similar names for characters that are unique to MtG.  Lastly, trade dress infringement is a bit far fetched as well, if for no other reason than many card games use the same basic element positioning for cards (art at the top, info below it, costs listed above, etc..  Maybe they are looking at a different angle with that one; kind of weird.

WotC could just be hoping to score a quick settlement for a few points of profit.

  BruceYee

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/08
Posts: 273

5/15/14 5:19:02 AM#47

The way they attack the controller(the line) is the same.

Maybe if they change that they can avoid a lot of headache.

Looks more like they are going after them though because the hype for Hex is pretty big right now.

"If you can control a man's thinking, you do not have to worry about his actions. When you determine what a man shall think you do not have to concern yourself about what he will do."-Winston Churchill

  summitus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/05
Posts: 1475

5/15/14 5:20:39 AM#48

This just goes to prove guys .. its all about the money ...not the gamers.  sigh

I have been looking forward to Hex, so now because of Wotc greed , I'm going to have to wait .. or in the worst case scenario , never get to play it at all .. fuck you Wizards ...

  Gadareth

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 309

5/15/14 5:46:02 AM#49
Originally posted by summitus

This just goes to prove guys .. its all about the money ...not the gamers.  sigh

I have been looking forward to Hex, so now because of Wotc greed , I'm going to have to wait .. or in the worst case scenario , never get to play it at all .. fuck you Wizards ...

In this case its all about the ripoff Hex should not have just copied someone elses game and called it their own WoTC have every right to call them on it.

  summitus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/05
Posts: 1475

5/15/14 5:52:12 AM#50
Originally posted by Gadareth
Originally posted by summitus

This just goes to prove guys .. its all about the money ...not the gamers.  sigh

I have been looking forward to Hex, so now because of Wotc greed , I'm going to have to wait .. or in the worst case scenario , never get to play it at all .. fuck you Wizards ...

In this case its all about the ripoff Hex should not have just copied someone elses game and called it their own WoTC have every right to call them on it.

Like the hundreds of other clones of Magic out there never bothered them before has it . You look at how you want, but its pure and simple greed , or the fact that Hex is a far better game that the pos Mtgo is ...

  Megilindir

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 91

5/15/14 5:52:14 AM#51

This is absurd you cannot basically sue one thing over imitation.Everything created in this universe is a simple example of this. The greed and jealousy are astounding. Then again why dont wotc make a game like cryptozoic makes? Its not virtuous. Every artist for instance has an inspiration point where they imitate one another. Simple crap. I hope Wotc will lose this case hard and i hope Hex will flourish. Ive been a magic fan since i was a child and look at this nonsense. Then, Wotc should stop using imperialistic approach on crappy duels of the planeswalkers every frekking year and start doing what cryptozoic does. Pathetic, absurd and ridiculous.

 

 

beLIEve

  summitus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/05
Posts: 1475

5/15/14 6:07:25 AM#52
Originally posted by Megilindir

This is absurd you cannot basically sue one thing over imitation.Everything created in this universe is a simple example of this. The greed and jealousy are astounding. Then again why dont wotc make a game like cryptozoic makes? Its not virtuous. Every artist for instance has an inspiration point where they imitate one another. Simple crap. I hope Wotc will lose this case hard and i hope Hex will flourish. Ive been a magic fan since i was a child and look at this nonsense. Then, Wotc should stop using imperialistic approach on crappy duels of the planeswalkers every frekking year and start doing what cryptozoic does. Pathetic, absurd and ridiculous.

 

 

Agreed +1

  Gadareth

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 309

5/15/14 6:10:44 AM#53
Originally posted by summitus
Originally posted by Gadareth
Originally posted by summitus

This just goes to prove guys .. its all about the money ...not the gamers.  sigh

I have been looking forward to Hex, so now because of Wotc greed , I'm going to have to wait .. or in the worst case scenario , never get to play it at all .. fuck you Wizards ...

In this case its all about the ripoff Hex should not have just copied someone elses game and called it their own WoTC have every right to call them on it.

Like the hundreds of other clones of Magic out there never bothered them before has it . You look at how you want, but its pure and simple greed , or the fact that Hex is a far better game that the pos Mtgo is ...

Show me another game which copies MTG to the same extent with NOTHING new added just show me one ....

btw. DAMN YOU !!! for making me defend WoTC/hasbro I actually despise the company and the way they are pushing DnD into a card game motif. But if were going to condemn them lets do so on something they are actually wrong about.

The fact that HEX is a carbon copy of MTG is without question and as such they at least have the right to challenge it. It is up to the courts to decide what the law says but there is enough copy and pasting there to warrent the action.

 

  summitus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/05
Posts: 1475

5/15/14 6:22:52 AM#54
Originally posted by Gadareth
Originally posted by summitus
Originally posted by Gadareth
Originally posted by summitus

This just goes to prove guys .. its all about the money ...not the gamers.  sigh

I have been looking forward to Hex, so now because of Wotc greed , I'm going to have to wait .. or in the worst case scenario , never get to play it at all .. fuck you Wizards ...

In this case its all about the ripoff Hex should not have just copied someone elses game and called it their own WoTC have every right to call them on it.

Like the hundreds of other clones of Magic out there never bothered them before has it . You look at how you want, but its pure and simple greed , or the fact that Hex is a far better game that the pos Mtgo is ...

Show me another game which copies MTG to the same extent with NOTHING new added just show me one ....

btw. DAMN YOU !!! for making me defend WoTC/hasbro I actually despise the company and the way they are pushing DnD into a card game motif. But if were going to condemn them lets do so on something they are actually wrong about.

The fact that HEX is a carbon copy of MTG is without question and as such they at least have the right to challenge it. It is up to the courts to decide what the law says but there is enough copy and pasting there to warrent the action.

Well they are all clones in one way or another , but here is one that uses 5 colours for Mana  " Mytheria "... " also  " Elements " has similar mechanics ... so will they sue them too ? .. Don't bother defending Wotc .. you cant , they are greedy assholes.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19396

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

5/15/14 6:24:20 AM#55
Hmm, if this suit prevails, think of how much money Blizzard could try to sue for. Probably better if this doesn't succeed.

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10942

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

5/15/14 6:29:06 AM#56

Compared to other gaming compnies, Wizards of the Coast is a little more sue-happy than others. 

 

When DOTA2 was coming out, the only restriction was that Valve couldn't name their characters who are incredibly similar to Warcraft and WoW characters after the Blizzard owned characters.  Someone wrote an MMO-like game using Starcraft 2 and the only restriction was that it couldn't be named "World of Starcraft" because it would sound like Blizzard was coming out with an MMORPG.  Not to mention the large number of literal clones coming out on tablets.  The gaming industry in general doesn't spend a lot of time in court compared to other industries.  I've always thought this was a good thing for the industry and for consumers.

 

WotC may have a legal leg to stand on (maybe), but it's not going to help their business.  It may help sales of Hex though.  If people are ready to play something else, suing the competition isn't going to save WotC for long.

 

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  summitus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/05
Posts: 1475

5/15/14 6:47:30 AM#57
Originally posted by Kyleran
Hmm, if this suit prevails, think of how much money Blizzard could try to sue for. Probably better if this doesn't succeed.

I think your right ,and maybe better for the industry as whole if this doesn't succeed.

  Gadareth

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 309

5/15/14 6:49:26 AM#58
Originally posted by summitus
Originally posted by Gadareth
Originally posted by summitus
Originally posted by Gadareth
Originally posted by summitus

This just goes to prove guys .. its all about the money ...not the gamers.  sigh

I have been looking forward to Hex, so now because of Wotc greed , I'm going to have to wait .. or in the worst case scenario , never get to play it at all .. fuck you Wizards ...

In this case its all about the ripoff Hex should not have just copied someone elses game and called it their own WoTC have every right to call them on it.

Like the hundreds of other clones of Magic out there never bothered them before has it . You look at how you want, but its pure and simple greed , or the fact that Hex is a far better game that the pos Mtgo is ...

Show me another game which copies MTG to the same extent with NOTHING new added just show me one ....

btw. DAMN YOU !!! for making me defend WoTC/hasbro I actually despise the company and the way they are pushing DnD into a card game motif. But if were going to condemn them lets do so on something they are actually wrong about.

The fact that HEX is a carbon copy of MTG is without question and as such they at least have the right to challenge it. It is up to the courts to decide what the law says but there is enough copy and pasting there to warrent the action.

Well they are all clones in one way or another , but here is one that uses 5 colours for Mana  " Mytheria "... " also  " Elements " has similar mechanics ... so will they sue them too ? .. Don't bother defending Wotc .. you cant , they are greedy assholes.

Thats ONE aspect I mean find me a game which has nothing new and just copies in every detail MTG to the same degree hex has.....

Look I understand hating WoTC but get a grip and actually find something legitimate to hate them over sueing someone because they just carbon copied your game is reasonable.

I seriously doubt they will win the law suit as has already been mentioned plagerism in games isnt enforced but just think if this case wins we will actual have legal grounds to stop the gaming markets current trend of cookie cutter development ...

Which means this could be a huge advance in unique games being developed.

 

  summitus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/05
Posts: 1475

5/15/14 6:58:12 AM#59
Originally posted by Gadareth
Originally posted by summitus
Originally posted by Gadareth
Originally posted by summitus
Originally posted by Gadareth
Originally posted by summitus

This just goes to prove guys .. its all about the money ...not the gamers.  sigh

I have been looking forward to Hex, so now because of Wotc greed , I'm going to have to wait .. or in the worst case scenario , never get to play it at all .. fuck you Wizards ...

In this case its all about the ripoff Hex should not have just copied someone elses game and called it their own WoTC have every right to call them on it.

Like the hundreds of other clones of Magic out there never bothered them before has it . You look at how you want, but its pure and simple greed , or the fact that Hex is a far better game that the pos Mtgo is ...

Show me another game which copies MTG to the same extent with NOTHING new added just show me one ....

btw. DAMN YOU !!! for making me defend WoTC/hasbro I actually despise the company and the way they are pushing DnD into a card game motif. But if were going to condemn them lets do so on something they are actually wrong about.

The fact that HEX is a carbon copy of MTG is without question and as such they at least have the right to challenge it. It is up to the courts to decide what the law says but there is enough copy and pasting there to warrent the action.

Well they are all clones in one way or another , but here is one that uses 5 colours for Mana  " Mytheria "... " also  " Elements " has similar mechanics ... so will they sue them too ? .. Don't bother defending Wotc .. you cant , they are greedy assholes.

Thats ONE aspect I mean find me a game which has nothing new and just copies in every detail MTG to the same degree hex has.....

Look I understand hating WoTC but get a grip and actually find something legitimate to hate them over sueing someone because they just carbon copied your game is reasonable.

I seriously doubt they will win the law suit as has already been mentioned plagerism in games isnt enforced but just think if this case wins we will actual have legal grounds to stop the gaming markets current trend of cookie cutter development ...

Which means this could be a huge advance in unique games being developed.

 

I have already given you examples and I sure there are many others out there. Why don't they sue every fucking card game that has "attack and defence values" or "hey our cards have Dragons on them you cant put a fucking Dragon on yours". Your nitpicking to the extreme here to defend this BS,   and its also a matter of opinion how much Hex is like Mtg anyway.

  Gadareth

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 309

5/15/14 7:05:05 AM#60
Originally posted by summitus
Originally posted by Gadareth
Originally posted by summitus
Originally posted by Gadareth
Originally posted by summitus
Originally posted by Gadareth
Originally posted by summitus

This just goes to prove guys .. its all about the money ...not the gamers.  sigh

I have been looking forward to Hex, so now because of Wotc greed , I'm going to have to wait .. or in the worst case scenario , never get to play it at all .. fuck you Wizards ...

In this case its all about the ripoff Hex should not have just copied someone elses game and called it their own WoTC have every right to call them on it.

Like the hundreds of other clones of Magic out there never bothered them before has it . You look at how you want, but its pure and simple greed , or the fact that Hex is a far better game that the pos Mtgo is ...

Show me another game which copies MTG to the same extent with NOTHING new added just show me one ....

btw. DAMN YOU !!! for making me defend WoTC/hasbro I actually despise the company and the way they are pushing DnD into a card game motif. But if were going to condemn them lets do so on something they are actually wrong about.

The fact that HEX is a carbon copy of MTG is without question and as such they at least have the right to challenge it. It is up to the courts to decide what the law says but there is enough copy and pasting there to warrent the action.

Well they are all clones in one way or another , but here is one that uses 5 colours for Mana  " Mytheria "... " also  " Elements " has similar mechanics ... so will they sue them too ? .. Don't bother defending Wotc .. you cant , they are greedy assholes.

Thats ONE aspect I mean find me a game which has nothing new and just copies in every detail MTG to the same degree hex has.....

Look I understand hating WoTC but get a grip and actually find something legitimate to hate them over sueing someone because they just carbon copied your game is reasonable.

I seriously doubt they will win the law suit as has already been mentioned plagerism in games isnt enforced but just think if this case wins we will actual have legal grounds to stop the gaming markets current trend of cookie cutter development ...

Which means this could be a huge advance in unique games being developed.

 

I have already given you examples and I sure there are many others out there. Why don't they sue every fucking card game that has "attack and defence values" or "hey our cards have Dragons on them you cant put a fucking Dragon on yours". Your nitpicking to the extreme here to defend this BS,   and its also a matter of opinion how much Hex is like Mtg anyway.

No its a matter of record just read the court application posted earlier in this chat it includes a list of why they say its a copy. Read that were not talking one or two factors here. We are talking if it walks like a duck quakes like a duck, swims like a duck even if you call it a hex its s till a duck.

Still I get it you hate WoTC and don't want to actually think that maybe the little guy is the one being a dick. Being a big company and protecting your interests from parasites is not a bad thing.

Hex should go back to the drawing room and actually develop a unique game style of their own.

 

 

 

 

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