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General Discussion  » Still no official sales numbers?

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145 posts found
  korent1991

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1405

5/13/14 5:52:15 PM#41
Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit
Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit
"10 millions of subscribed players."

Oh, crap... has Knotwood returned with a new account name?

;-)

Come on...

ENTIRE MARKET OF ESO:

2-3 million MMO playerse looking for a new game.

2.8 million PC ES fans who bought Skyrim.

17.2 million console ES fans who bought Skyrim.

The fact that 4.8 million Oblivion copies sold.

The fact that 4 million Morrowind copies sold.

X million of console MMO players (unknown since no MMORPG has came to them since Xbox and PS2)

X millions migrating to ESO from other gaems.

PLUS:

RETENTION RATE

How well the retention rate you think this company can sustain with its updates and content expansions. Also considering its retention rate with its Single Player base as their first MMO ever. MMO player retention + ES fan player base retention.

PLUS:

ADVERTISMENT

Amount of global advertisement. Will they run an advertisement campaign the size of WoW's with celebs, ect. world wide.

EQUALS:

10 million subs by the end of the year

Do you even Math ?

FFXIV is on (Xbox - not on xbox, my mistake) PS, released last year. There's Defiance as well and there's DUST for PS3. There's competition.

Also as a console owner I never played a single mmorpg on it. I usually stick to the exclusive titles or some really good console games which I prefer playing while sitting or rather laying on a couch like Red Dead Redemption, GTA, Injustice, The Last of Us and similar.

Now to comment on your numbers.

I own a legendary edition of Skyrim on my steam account and I've been turned off by ESO in my first few hours in beta and never bought the game. So to say that ESO has that huge of a market is untrue and illogical. ESO has it's own market, just because it's an ES IP doesn't make any difference for it.

The rest of the "millions numbers" I won't comment.

I'm not sure how you came up with the idea that retention rate can be calculated by the IP fans or even that consumers care if the product they bought is the companies first type of the latter. Some parts of what I already wrote can be applied here as well and there's no certain way of telling how well will the game keep it's player base and for how long. Tho, judging by what I'm reading on forums and other web sources on how fast they're pushing out patches it's not looking bright for new content updates any time soon.

Finally, the advertisment.

To advertise something on the same scale as WOW did you need a lot of money first and that doesn't guarantee you'll even draw enough new customers to cover the costs of that advertisment. Global advertisment should be the last thing to pull.

It's not a matter of simple math.

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  nbtscan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/06/06
Posts: 519

5/13/14 5:54:34 PM#42
Originally posted by amber-r

Also you should keep in mind that numbers aren't always a good thing, look at FFXIV for instance.  Square offer up silly, meaningless numbers of "players".

 

If ESO followed FFXIV tactics and gave out registered player numbers they would be many millions (yes beta players are also calculated in the registered player number).

They said they had 2 million registered accounts with "500,000 unique daily logins" last time they reported.  I don't think the second number is meaningless.

 

Originally posted by korent1991
If I'm not mistaking, FFXIV is on Xbox and PS, released last year. There's Defiance as well and there's DUST for PS3. There's competition.

FFXIV is on PS3, PS4 and PC.  Microsoft won't allow cross-platform play with XBL so Square-Enix haven't been able to come to terms with them to bring their game to their console.

  korent1991

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1405

5/13/14 6:13:14 PM#43
Originally posted by nbtscan
Originally posted by amber-r

Also you should keep in mind that numbers aren't always a good thing, look at FFXIV for instance.  Square offer up silly, meaningless numbers of "players".

 

If ESO followed FFXIV tactics and gave out registered player numbers they would be many millions (yes beta players are also calculated in the registered player number).

They said they had 2 million registered accounts with "500,000 unique daily logins" last time they reported.  I don't think the second number is meaningless.

 

Originally posted by korent1991
If I'm not mistaking, FFXIV is on Xbox and PS, released last year. There's Defiance as well and there's DUST for PS3. There's competition.

FFXIV is on PS3, PS4 and PC.  Microsoft won't allow cross-platform play with XBL so Square-Enix haven't been able to come to terms with them to bring their game to their console.

My mistake, thanks for the report :)

edited.

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  Curragraigue

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/14
Posts: 71

5/13/14 7:29:42 PM#44
Originally posted by Yoda_Clone

Sales numbers are never put out early unless it's part of the marketing hype; that is, something they can clearly brag about as encouragement to others to buy the game and subscribe.

Stockholders' quarterly sales reports and similar formal documentation required by law are the best indications of sales, and even those are usually full of double-talk.

The only place I've ever been able to find accurate reports has been through investor channels; those aren't available to the general public.

Given that they are private owned company and not publicly listed I don't think any of us will be seeing any of that information anytime soon. While I'm curious about sale figures I don't see how it really helps anyway to know at this stage, either you enjoy the game or you don't.

I agree with other comments though if the sales figures had been great marketing would already have released those figures.

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

5/13/14 7:37:31 PM#45
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit
Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit
"10 millions of subscribed players."

Oh, crap... has Knotwood returned with a new account name?

;-)

 

Do you even Math ?

How about 780 out of 800 on my math GRE's years ago... one of multiple degrees I hold.

I've also been at every level of managment in very large companies, so I know "just a bit" about business.  Bad products do not end up with a large subscription base.

So, kid aka Knotwood the second, do you do anything other than hype?

That happens a lot here. I guess you have to be sarcastic to see it in others.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6095

5/13/14 7:46:10 PM#46
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit
Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
Originally posted by MsPtibiscuit
"10 millions of subscribed players."

Oh, crap... has Knotwood returned with a new account name?

;-)

 

Do you even Math ?

How about 780 out of 800 on my math GRE's years ago... one of multiple degrees I hold.

I've also been at every level of managment in very large companies, so I know "just a bit" about business.  Bad products do not end up with a large subscription base.

So, kid aka Knotwood the second, do you do anything other than hype?

That happens a lot here. I guess you have to be sarcastic to see it in others.

That doesn't bode well for me because I got it right away and even chuckled out loud.

I think it's curious that they haven't released numbers. I think if they were exceeding expectations we would see a news release. That makes me think sales and numbers aren't where they want them or aren't big enough to brag, but you never know. They could be waiting to rack up some numbers and then make a publicity stunt around the console release.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Sephros

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 395

5/13/14 7:47:58 PM#47
People with multiple degrees dont do jokes! Aint got time for dat!

Error: No Keyboard Detected!
Press F1 to continue......

  kitarad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1393

5/13/14 7:50:38 PM#48

They were so very quick to announce their beta numbers of 5 million. If they really sold very well they would be shouting it at the top of their lungs. Any game developer who shamelessly waves about beta figures as proof of its popularity would be very quick to show their sales if they were good.

Knotwood has slunk away and not shown his face here since 6th of May . Probably afraid we may ask him about his outrageous predictions. Pity that thread got locked  or we could have used it when the figures come out.

 

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

5/13/14 7:50:59 PM#49
Originally posted by Torvaldr
 

That doesn't bode well for me because I got it right away and even chuckled out loud.

I think it's curious that they haven't released numbers. I think if they were exceeding expectations we would see a news release. That makes me think sales and numbers aren't where they want them or aren't big enough to brag, but you never know. They could be waiting to rack up some numbers and then make a publicity stunt around the console release.

No matter what they post the screaming morons on forums will spin it into a bad thing. Not knowing for as long as possible is the best play imo. It's obviously not good enough that they feel it will bring people in so why bother giving people more ammo...even if it's not a bad number.

I'm sure you're very familiar with how much facts actually influence people who have a predetermined agenda to spout on about.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7637

5/13/14 10:19:40 PM#50
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by bcbully

Well, Raptr shows ESO having about 100k more active user than Gw2.

ESO- 268,435

Gw2- 179,967

 

and about 20k less total members. 

gw2 - 419,416

ESO - 268,435

 

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/eso-subscription-numbers/page/7/#post-491291

Interesting tidbit that.  If you go to http://raptr.com/dashboard/games and view the "Top Games Being Played By Everyone", and look at it using the "week" filter you will see that ESO is number 10 at 182K hours.  GW2 is at number 12 with 150K hours.  Since GW2 has been out for more than a year and ESO just came out last month, when do you think those numbers will start to flip flop? I would say in about another 2 to 3 weeks.

Here is something else interesting Xfire of the course of one month ESO has seen 0 decline. Steady as a rock. I can't recall seeing anything like that. They all dip.

  reeereee

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 769

5/13/14 10:46:47 PM#51
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Torvaldr
 

That doesn't bode well for me because I got it right away and even chuckled out loud.

I think it's curious that they haven't released numbers. I think if they were exceeding expectations we would see a news release. That makes me think sales and numbers aren't where they want them or aren't big enough to brag, but you never know. They could be waiting to rack up some numbers and then make a publicity stunt around the console release.

No matter what they post the screaming morons on forums will spin it into a bad thing. Not knowing for as long as possible is the best play imo. It's obviously not good enough that they feel it will bring people in so why bother giving people more ammo...even if it's not a bad number.

I'm sure you're very familiar with how much facts actually influence people who have a predetermined agenda to spout on about.

I believe your statement would have been just as accurate and a bit more powerful if you had not included the section in red.

  Wolfhammer

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 532

Bleh!

5/14/14 7:16:29 AM#52

Wish people would stop bringing in Xfire and Raptyr type figures into these discussions.  No site of that type has ever known what I play and for how long, and I suspect there is an awful lot of others like me...

The figures are pointless.....

  User Deleted
5/14/14 7:47:43 AM#53

AT this point, i'm 99% confident they don't have 2 million subs, which surprises me considering i was expecting at least that by force of the IP. But they may not have even reached 1 million. VGChartz tracks physical copies. And if we count digital between 50 to 66.6% of sales, that puts it between 700k to 1.1M, with my bet being less than 1m do to silence from Zenimax. Though, they might not want to even released at number because of comparisons with SWTOR and GW2.

 

Honestly, the sales numbers aren't even the most important part, now that the consoles version as been delayed. When TOR and TSW failed to meet financial expectations, layoffs followed because cuts had to be made. We don't know the budget for ESO, but as long as Zenimax doesn't suffer layoffs, they'll probably be out of the red. 

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11780

5/14/14 8:37:54 AM#54
Originally posted by Curragraigue

 Will I'm curious about sale figures I don't see how it really helps anyway to know at this stage,

either you enjoy the game or you don't.

i agree

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5395

5/14/14 8:44:44 AM#55

When did the last MMO release sales figures a month after launch? There is your answer.

  Jacxolope

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/13
Posts: 762

5/14/14 8:46:32 AM#56
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Curragraigue

 Will I'm curious about sale figures I don't see how it really helps anyway to know at this stage,

either you enjoy the game or you don't.

i agree

While that is totally true-  When Bethesda and Zeni decided to use the Elder Scrolls IP to make an MMO that people have been requesting for nearly 15 years and many. many people purchased mainly due to the IP- They invited discussion and speculation along with the extra profits they gained by using the ES IP.

When they boasted about the beta numbers they , themselves made the numbers an issue they showed they wanted to flaunt.

Their silence now will obviously draw some speculation one way or another and merits discussions due to the fact this is an ES MMO and its a hot topic to discuss right now regardless of your point of view or opinion. The publicity and discussion could have been avoided if this game were launched and called "Dominion X Online" but we ALL know by slapping the ES name on thhis game they automaticly guaranteed some degree of success and extra profit- But also were playing with more backlash DUE to using a loved IP and making a game fans have been requesting since Morrowind.

-So we will discuss, speculate, dissect and argue about everything ESO related.

You are welcome to join us.

 

-That said, glad you are enjoying the game and you are right. What we discuss matters very little- It comes down to whether you are having fun . But discuss we will- =P

  cheyane

Elite Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2548

5/14/14 8:55:35 AM#57
Originally posted by Scot

When did the last MMO release sales figures a month after launch? There is your answer.

Here is your answer courtesy of Nadia

 

sub#s are more elusive than ever

but both SWTOR and GW2 reported their sales during the first week

SWTOR announced over 1 million players, 3 days after launch

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/press-release/20111223

Ncsoft GW2 announced 1 million sales for 3day preorders, before GW2 launched 08/28/2012

http://techland.time.com/2012/08/28/guild-wars-2-sales-one-million-pre-served-record-400000-playing-at-once/

 

 

So something is rotten in the state of Denmark and they're just too ashamed one wonders ?

 

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  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6988

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

5/14/14 8:55:53 AM#58

I would not buy any stock into sales numbers because there always seems to be some real shadiness to numbers.

First of all if you asked them,they wouldn't know but some how you get these marketing sites posting numbers all the time.Also developers can manipulate numbers into various quarters for various reasons.You never know if they are trying to influence a rise in stocks or if they are trying to lower numbers to avoid paying large bonuses or for many other reasons.None of us really know what goes on behind closed doors or in the books when comes to paying creditors or perhaps even royalties.

There is also a fact that MANY copies are sold to stores in large quantities of which many may never be sold.Then we don't know if those sales included returns for unsold copies so much shadiness behind numbers that accuracy is NEVER 100%.

Subscription numbers are about the only accurate number people could rely on but magically that is also why free to play games like having no real numbers ,that way they can post whatever they want and the numbers will never go down lol.

Honestly it should not matter one bit,if you enjoy the game just play it,if you don't then don't play it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
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  cheyane

Elite Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2548

5/14/14 9:07:20 AM#59

FFxIV ARR was released on 27th Aug 2013 and on September 17th this was a press release 

 

Game director Naoki Yoshida explained the game's server woes earlier this month. "The night following the announcement of our plans to temporarily limit sales of the download version, A Realm Reborn recorded upwards of 218,000 concurrent connections," he said at the time. "This is in spite of the fact that the peak login times for separate regions around the world arrive at differing intervals. We estimate that without time zone differences, the total number of concurrent connections would number anywhere from 300,000 to 350,000."

 

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/square-enix-reopens-digital-purchases-of-final-fantasy-xiv/1100-6414524/

 

So what's up Zenimax ?

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  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11780

5/14/14 9:11:37 AM#60
Originally posted by Wizardry
Subscription numbers are about the only accurate number people could rely on but magically that is also why free to play games like having no real numbers ,that way they can post whatever they want and the numbers will never go down lol.

even subs are not accurate

subs are paid accounts  (doesnt mean people are playing)

 

only concurrent players gives good estimation for active players

and all games have this info  - sub, b2p, f2p

but not many mmos offer it  (including WOW)

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