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General Discussion  » ESO's Organised pvp reminds me of DAOC's pvp

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27 posts found
  Hefaistos

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/09/04
Posts: 143

 
OP  5/12/14 11:50:16 AM#1

/nuff said.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWkOkmwwxGg

 

 

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1668

5/12/14 12:06:10 PM#2

I didn't realize that DAoC pvp revolved around running around and AoEing the entire time.  

You have five skills you could use, but you mostly just spammed 3, and every now and then 4; which I'm guessing was a single target skill.  

That must be the depth I keep seeing people going on about.  

Edit: clarification.   You spammed only the skill assigned to 3, and every now and then the skill assigned to 4.  

Mostly though, you just spammed a single skill,  which happened to be an AoE, which appeared to be the same thing everyone else was doing.  

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7360

5/12/14 12:09:40 PM#3
When it works, Cyrodiil is special. It has no equal in the industry. Zen just needs to get it to work more consistently.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  LethalBurst

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/04/04
Posts: 378

5/12/14 12:23:07 PM#4
No surprise considering some of ESO's developers created DAoC. The head of Zenimax Online, Matt Firor, co-founded Mythic Entertainment.
  Manasong

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/14
Posts: 194

P2P elitist

5/12/14 12:23:32 PM#5
For me organised pvp reminds me too much of GW2... Stack, push and heal.
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3910

5/12/14 12:23:34 PM#6
Yes. DAoC updated to 2014 and with VoIP. 
  g0m0rrah

Elite Member

Joined: 1/23/13
Posts: 276

5/12/14 12:34:30 PM#7

 

   I see very little of DAoC in ESO.  What I dont see...

60 second mez

spell casting lock out on damage

buff bots

battlegrounds keeps

8 mans capable of fighting the zerg

area denial roles (bainshee, animist, etc)

Pet based roles that excel using the Pet (bone dancer, necro, animist, etc)

 

 Its a good thing that I do not see some of the listed.  The problem is I dont see much of the good aspects either.  So far all I have seen of ESO PvP is AoE builds running around spamming 1 or 2 abilities. 

  Nepheth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 271

A dream... A dream without regrets.

5/12/14 12:48:57 PM#8


Originally posted by LethalBurst
No surprise considering some of ESO's developers created DAoC. The head of Zenimax Online, Matt Firor, co-founded Mythic Entertainment.

Not some of.. Only Matt Firor. And actually Matt Firor was only the producer, Mark Jacobs was the real creator and the Lead Designer of Daoc. And He's woking on Camelot Unchanied right now. Matt Firor just using Daoc's name that's all. He is nothing special...

And op did you really played Daoc back then? This is nothing like Daoc... Sorry but Cyrodiil is a pure WvW clone with one big map instead of 5 medium maps. Nothing more, nothing less...

Playing : Final Fantasy XIV - Guild Wars 2 - Wakfu

Waiting for : The Division - H1Z1 - Elite Dangerous - Warhammer 40K

Legends : Warhammer Online - Knight Online - Guild Wars

  Hefaistos

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/09/04
Posts: 143

 
OP  5/12/14 2:13:36 PM#9

to whom it may concern...i am not the guy in the video...but the video reminds me about what was the best 3 years ever in my mmo experience 2000-2003 if memory recalls. 

 

Ive played DAOC on Andred/Mordred (FFA servers) then moved on Merlin Hib. 

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3957

5/12/14 2:44:28 PM#10
Originally posted by Wyrdfell

 


Originally posted by LethalBurst
No surprise considering some of ESO's developers created DAoC. The head of Zenimax Online, Matt Firor, co-founded Mythic Entertainment.

 

Not some of.. Only Matt Firor. And actually Matt Firor was only the producer, Mark Jacobs was the real creator and the Lead Designer of Daoc. And He's woking on Camelot Unchanied right now. Matt Firor just using Daoc's name that's all. He is nothing special...

And op did you really played Daoc back then? This is nothing like Daoc... Sorry but Cyrodiil is a pure WvW clone with one big map instead of 5 medium maps. Nothing more, nothing less...

There is more to WvW or RvR than the area or zone. He may be referring to the actual fighting and/or teamwork involved. /shrug

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  TweFoju

Tipster

Joined: 6/27/09
Posts: 965

5/12/14 11:52:27 PM#11

Unfortunately, that is not the case anymore in ESO,

Zenimax should reduce the campaign server to 2 campaign, the reason is:

I never knew what happened, but i started my Campaign in Auriel Bow as Dominion just when the game was released, it was super fun and all, every Fort has their own defend and attack would be very lively, even when most are zergs, but at least it's happening.

then i reached v10 and took a short breakn from ESO, and just started playing again around last week

then boom, everything is under Dominion, and not even a single resistance ( yes there is, but to the point where the Dominion would go all the way to the Pact and Covenant spawn point and camp there )

the situation right now in Auriel Bow is just so sad, it used to be the most populated server, everyone was there, but i never knew what happened, Pact and Covenant just stopped playing?

So What Now?

  Four0Six

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1113

5/13/14 12:04:35 AM#12
Originally posted by Hefaistos

to whom it may concern...i am not the guy in the video...but the video reminds me about what was the best 3 years ever in my mmo experience 2000-2003 if memory recalls. 

 

Ive played DAOC on Andred/Mordred (FFA servers) then moved on Merlin Hib. 

 

1. I have been drinking liquor.

2. Totally sounds like a Good ol' Boy reliving the Good ol' Days.

 

 

 

  Hefaistos

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/09/04
Posts: 143

 
OP  5/13/14 12:20:34 AM#13
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Wyrdfell

 


Originally posted by LethalBurst
No surprise considering some of ESO's developers created DAoC. The head of Zenimax Online, Matt Firor, co-founded Mythic Entertainment.

 

Not some of.. Only Matt Firor. And actually Matt Firor was only the producer, Mark Jacobs was the real creator and the Lead Designer of Daoc. And He's woking on Camelot Unchanied right now. Matt Firor just using Daoc's name that's all. He is nothing special...

And op did you really played Daoc back then? This is nothing like Daoc... Sorry but Cyrodiil is a pure WvW clone with one big map instead of 5 medium maps. Nothing more, nothing less...

There is more to WvW or RvR than the area or zone. He may be referring to the actual fighting and/or teamwork involved. /shrug

You are correct.

  Reticulata

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 82

5/13/14 8:44:01 AM#14

ESO needs to:

Reduce the amount of campaigns to ensure each map is packed.

 

Disable map hoping to some extent.

 

Ad realm pride or features that make pvp meaningful.

 

Builds need to be added where players can choose full support roles such as lasting buffs, cc,  debuffs and speed similar to Bard  or shammy classes.

 

Enable name tags and guild tags. This is a big one for me and some of my friends. As it is right now, pvp is just meaningless pew pewing at anonymous bodies that all look alike. You have no idea who you are fighting - it feels about as immersive as fighting a mass of random NPCs. (and before anyone says it: Yes, names are available on a tiny text format if you take the time to properly mouse over someone and sit there and read it - horrible. No one has time to properly mouse hover over everyone and read small names in pvp)

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1644

5/13/14 8:48:29 AM#15
Originally posted by g0m0rrah

 

   I see very little of DAoC in ESO.  What I dont see...

60 second mez

spell casting lock out on damage

buff bots

battlegrounds keeps

8 mans capable of fighting the zerg

area denial roles (bainshee, animist, etc)

Pet based roles that excel using the Pet (bone dancer, necro, animist, etc)

 

 Its a good thing that I do not see some of the listed.  The problem is I dont see much of the good aspects either.  So far all I have seen of ESO PvP is AoE builds running around spamming 1 or 2 abilities. 

I was going to say;

I don't see AoE Mez, AoE Stun, AoE Sleep....

Not to mention a total lack of Trolls sounding like they yell, WHAT'S UP!, when they get hit.

  Betaguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2646

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

5/13/14 8:49:39 AM#16
Originally posted by Hefaistos

/nuff said.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWkOkmwwxGg

 

 

It's identical, I am having so much fun as I once did in DAoC,

  General-Zod

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 571

Kneel.

5/13/14 9:13:00 AM#17
Originally posted by g0m0rrah

 

   I see very little of DAoC in ESO.  What I dont see...

60 second mez

spell casting lock out on damage

buff bots

battlegrounds keeps

8 mans capable of fighting the zerg

area denial roles (bainshee, animist, etc)

Pet based roles that excel using the Pet (bone dancer, necro, animist, etc)

 

 Its a good thing that I do not see some of the listed.  The problem is I dont see much of the good aspects either.  So far all I have seen of ESO PvP is AoE builds running around spamming 1 or 2 abilities. 

What I don't see...

Depth in Realm Rank abilities

Tactical Anti-Zerg skills and strategies

Realm Pride

Familiarity with the enemy

That last one is really important to me. When you were killed or got killed in DaoC sometimes it became interpersonal and you were able to develop rivalries. One could also become famous or infamous, on my server Galahad we most feared a Theurgist named Woeful and my realm (Midgard) would scream "EVERYBODY RUN TO (insert keep) WOEFUL IS OUT!!" Jazz the enchanter from Hibernia was also infamous for rolling zergs with just a 8 man group. This is what I and many others miss about DaoC.

ESO however, while lacking in this department does the solo pvp really nicely.

 

  Soki123

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1319

5/13/14 9:21:38 AM#18
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Hefaistos

/nuff said.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWkOkmwwxGg

 

 

It's identical, I am having so much fun as I once did in DAoC,

 

Identical, not even close. No one cares like they did in Daoc and the combat also makes it not possible, in a bad way.
  Asariasha

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/05/11
Posts: 216

5/13/14 9:48:42 AM#19
Originally posted by Uhwop

I didn't realize that DAoC pvp revolved around running around and AoEing the entire time.  

You have five skills you could use, but you mostly just spammed 3, and every now and then 4; which I'm guessing was a single target skill.  

That must be the depth I keep seeing people going on about.  

Edit: clarification.   You spammed only the skill assigned to 3, and every now and then the skill assigned to 4.  

Mostly though, you just spammed a single skill,  which happened to be an AoE, which appeared to be the same thing everyone else was doing.  

 

DAoC PvP revolved around three things:

 

- Solo PvP: Especially speed or stealth classes were perfect for solo PvP. You could quickly roam through the frontier zone and search for even fights.

 

- Group PvP: Group PvP in premade groups was often considered the elitists playground. Some groups played so good that they managed to kill small zergs by luckily landing crowd control and then having AoE / PBAoE classes killing the opponents.

 

- Mass PvP: Zergs lead by a Zerg-Leader usually ran around the main battlefield, Emain Macha.

 

About skills:

Even though Vanilla DAoC and SI DAoC offered more than 5 skills, you usually did not use that many skills. Support classes with a broader but not that deep specialization used more skills, but these specializations were not that common, because they lacked of high efficiency.

 

Example Pacification Healer (2-line Spec: Pacification + Mending):

1) Base Single Heal

2) Base Group Heal

3) Spec Spreadheal

4) Instant Single Heal (long reuse timer)

5) Instant Group Heal (long reuse timer)

6) Single Mezz

7) AoE Mezz

8) Instant Single Mezz (long reuse timer)

9) Instant AoE Mezz (long reuse timer)

10) Single Root

11 - 15) 4-5 Realm Abilities on long reuse timers

 

The red marked abilities are the bread and butter abilities you always could use at will. Strong instant spells or Realm Abilities on the other hand had long reuse timers of 15-30 minutes and were not available at any time.

 

Damage dealers are another thing. Even though having access to a wide range of abilities, they usually used far less abilities. A Darkness Runemasters primary activity was using his Spec Nuke and occasionally rooting or debuffing opponents. Warriors 2 main skills were Shield Slam + Positional Style or Anytimer Spam.

 

Now taking a look at ESO. You have got 5 ability slots plus 1 ultimate. The same on weapons swap. This makes 12 abilities available. Simply by swapping weapons you fit 2 different roles. You may combine strong CC and heal abilities and then switch to a set with high damaging abilities. Everything is possible.

 

It is the nature of the player to use the best for the situation suitable ability. If you are fighting many opponents, AoE is the logical way to go. That's the same story in every single MMO featuring AoE abilities.

 

I think what the OP was talking about is the fact that in ESO you finally have got viable and fun solo, group and zerg PvP. That's a combination not many MMOs achieved.

 

  Asariasha

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/05/11
Posts: 216

5/13/14 9:52:33 AM#20
Originally posted by General-Zod
Originally posted by g0m0rrah

 

   I see very little of DAoC in ESO.  What I dont see...

60 second mez

spell casting lock out on damage

buff bots

battlegrounds keeps

8 mans capable of fighting the zerg

area denial roles (bainshee, animist, etc)

Pet based roles that excel using the Pet (bone dancer, necro, animist, etc)

 

 Its a good thing that I do not see some of the listed.  The problem is I dont see much of the good aspects either.  So far all I have seen of ESO PvP is AoE builds running around spamming 1 or 2 abilities. 

What I don't see...

Depth in Realm Rank abilities

Tactical Anti-Zerg skills and strategies

Realm Pride

Familiarity with the enemy

That last one is really important to me. When you were killed or got killed in DaoC sometimes it became interpersonal and you were able to develop rivalries. One could also become famous or infamous, on my server Galahad we most feared a Theurgist named Woeful and my realm (Midgard) would scream "EVERYBODY RUN TO (insert keep) WOEFUL IS OUT!!" Jazz the enchanter from Hibernia was also infamous for rolling zergs with just a 8 man group. This is what I and many others miss about DaoC.

ESO however, while lacking in this department does the solo pvp really nicely.

 

 

I agree to your points, especially to the realm pride and familiarity with opponents arguments. However, lack of realm pride and familiarity with the enemy are a negative feature of the megaserver concept. On the other hand the megaserver concept ensures that you will never have to play on an empty server.

Also, I think that it just needs some time until players know each other. A campaign runs what ... 60 days? Thats enough time to get to know each other and also offers fresh starts after a campaign has ended.

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