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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » A thought or two about subscriptions [mod edit]

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150 posts found
  st3v3b0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 133

5/13/14 8:38:46 AM#21

Money is not the problem.  It is the feeling of obligation to put time into the game when I do not have the time to spare.  I'd almost rather purchase a small block of hours for the weeks I do have ample time to play that way on the weeks I do not have much (or any) I don't feel bad for paying for something I am not utilizing.

The whole argument of $0.50 a day is crap too.  The real amount is the subscription cost divided by the number of days you actually play.  While that still does not boil down to a lot of money it is still a more accurate representation of the amount of money you are paying with utilizing the game.

  askdaboss

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 429

5/13/14 8:44:30 AM#22

Aside from a lot of really good answers as to why people would not want to pay a subscription, there is also a psychological effect associated with the commitment of a recurring subscription that makes it harder for me to justify it.

 

In fact, I often paid more/equivalent money in games that do not require a subscription - but I felt it was at my own pace.

And with these non sub games, I am always paying *after* a week or two of gaming to give back to the game I enjoyed playing.

Never or rarely *before* - since I'm not really able to know if I will be able to play the following month or not (or if the game will keep me interested for that long).

  mgilbrtsn

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/14/09
Posts: 1293

He who fights and runs away... misses out on the loot

5/13/14 8:45:19 AM#23

I don't necessarily believe that they can't pay, but have more of a philosophical problem with it.  I prefer PtP, but many truly believe that FtP is the best model.  There is also a segment that is young and simply can't get jobs or earn money.  For them, FtP is a Win/Win.

 

 

They are coming for you!

  Swids2010

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 222

Pay to Win. If it can be earned in game its not pay to win FACT

5/13/14 8:45:22 AM#24

I don't think it so much comes down to being able to afford it. For example I could quite happily afford to pay many subscriptions and have done in the past my problem comes down to this if I'm paying a subscription there are basics things I expect to receive as part of that subscription and If I don't receive them then I will vote with my wallet sick to death of mediocre games trying to get you to subscribe. GW2 set a bench mark for me if they can produce something of that quality for free then I'm not willing to subscribe unless I feel it offers far more than GW2.

Just a few things I consider are a must if your charging a subscription

GM support and I mean ingame GM's I will not except having to create a total separate account on another website to get any support. If I'm paying you money I expect in game GM's doing there jobs.

Bugs and fix's I expect there to be maintenance at least once a week and for the dev team to actively be squashing and fixing bugs and if they cant fix them at least keep people informed of what the help is happening.

I expect rampant bots and goldsellers to be dealt with swiftly this comes back to GM's in game GM's help a lot with this.

The list could go on and on. Its simple if you expect people to give you a subscription fee then you should be providing a top notch service.

  Shamorau

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/09
Posts: 166

5/13/14 8:48:58 AM#25
i put it this way. if i go to see a movie, thats at least $20 (rounded up), for only 90-120 minutes of entertainment. same for going to see a comedian or something of the like. so to pay $15 for a months entertainment to me is cheap. but i refuse to play pay to win games. that pretty much includes everything with a cash shop at the moment.
  Gadareth

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 309

5/13/14 8:49:32 AM#26
Originally posted by Swids2010

I don't think it so much comes down to being able to afford it. For example I could quite happily afford to pay many subscriptions and have done in the past my problem comes down to this if I'm paying a subscription there are basics things I expect to receive as part of that subscription and If I don't receive them then I will vote with my wallet sick to death of mediocre games trying to get you to subscribe. GW2 set a bench mark for me if they can produce something of that quality for free then I'm not willing to subscribe unless I feel it offers far more than GW2.

Just a few things I consider are a must if your charging a subscription

GM support and I mean ingame GM's I will not except having to create a total separate account on another website to get any support. If I'm paying you money I expect in game GM's doing there jobs.

Bugs and fix's I expect there to be maintenance at least once a week and for the dev team to actively be squashing and fixing bugs and if they cant fix them at least keep people informed of what the help is happening.

I expect rampant bots and goldsellers to be dealt with swiftly this comes back to GM's in game GM's help a lot with this.

The list could go on and on. Its simple if you expect people to give you a subscription fee then you should be providing a top notch service.

This I can agree with if your paying a subscription fee I do expect that a portion of that fee is allocated to support such as GMS, Development for new content etc.

 

  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

5/13/14 8:58:47 AM#27
Originally posted by Seelinnikoi

There are a lot of people on this site that very often complain about subscriptions to MMORPG's and they feel they dont want to pay to play...

For those people, have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, you should rather be working or looking for a means of earning money, in order to pay for your own entertainment?

 

 

"I don't want to" and "I cannot" are two different things. 

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Beatnik59

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2244

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

5/13/14 9:02:07 AM#28
Originally posted by korent1991

It's not about if you HAVE money, it's about if you think the sub is WORTH THE MONEY! There's a difference and a huge one for that matter.

 

There's truth in this.

Now what I'm about to talk about is anecdotal, but I've seen enough people in these games to know a bit about income and play patterns.  I've been from UO, to EQ2, to SWG, to EVE to CoH.  What I can tell you is that unemployment and expense are no barriers to subscription-based games.  In fact, people on unemployment or fixed incomes LOVE subscription-based games, because this is a bill they can anticipate and control on a fixed income.

What's more, people on the rocks, financially, are much more likely to upgrade their accounts over the guy who has it together.  It makes sense.  If the game is the only good thing you have, you tend to make that thing as good as possible.  If you have other things going on, the game comes secondary.  The guy who has two nickels to rub together tends to take his vacation time going on a real vacation.  He also logs out to see a show, or goes out.  The guy who doesn't tends to spend his vacation time in the game; it's easier that way and less expensive.

That doesn't mean they don't cut back if things get real desperate.  If they were running two accounts, they might cancel an alt.  But I don't know of one person who cancelled a main because of financial hardship.  Not one.  I have, however, known of people who cancelled the main because of a new job, or school, or some other opportunity.  And if you think about it, this makes sense.  A lot of times, people come to these things because of some tragedy in their lives or a loss of daily routine.  When things get moving again, they have no need for the game.

A lot of times, people need to keep themselves occupied until things get moving again in their lives, and this can take many forms.  Waiting for school, waiting for a new job, getting well after a sickness or injury or getting over some loss are all reasons people jump into these games.  When life knocks you for a loop, it is only natural to delve into fantasy.  Is it wrong to do that?  I think it is one of the most human things a person can do.

But the way they see things, they look at it like this: "I can go to the bar and spend much more than I have, or I can do this for," as one person said, "50 cents a day."   It is hard, damn hard, to stare at the same four walls while you wait for things to get moving again.  And so, people are loathe to give up something like an MMO, which gives them some meaning and purpose in a reality where their lives are on hold.  Should they?  Shouldn't they?  That's not for me to decide for them, but I do understand why they throw themselves into these things like they do.  As far as I'm concerned, it's much better than booze, gambling or drugs.

No, I don't think the whole "I can't afford a sub" argument is the whole story.  Frankly, I think the whole F2P phenomena is more about making the games accessible to minors, who may not have credit, debit, PayPal or access to game cards.  It is secondarily about making the game accessible to non-traditional gamers, gamers with means, who may be intimidated by a paywall.  But I don't see these F2P games as a response to gamers with a fixed income; those on a fixed income are looking for a fixed price, and are looking for a point of stability in an otherwise unstable reality.  It is one less variable for them to consider.

 

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  Hariken

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/13
Posts: 617

5/13/14 9:12:46 AM#29
I find it funny how the op and most of you think its because someone is poor and not working. Yet most people here are paying for internet service which is more than 15 a month. For me it was GW2 opening my eyes about not having to pay a monthly sub. for a mmo. How its just extra money game companies are sucking out of  players. GW2 is still running strong and one of the top games here and around the world whether any of you like it or not. And all without a monthly fee. Not one mmo is worth that monthly fee anymore. if they were then why does anyone switch to different games. Why don't they stay loyal to the game.  Its because you get bored and don't want to pay anymore.  Why do you get bored, its because mmo's are doing the same thing since everquest. Its an old genre with way to many games on the market.
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7541

5/13/14 9:19:21 AM#30
Originally posted by Seelinnikoi

 

What is really the excuse of people hating subscriptions so much?

 

Some people just like p2w OP. A lot of people have no problem buying gold. They are the same people who roll into flavor of the month classes. The same people who exploit broken mechanics. 

  Hedeon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/05
Posts: 925

5/13/14 9:29:55 AM#31
currently I earn 5.800$/month or so, and I will still will complain about paying overprice - mind am not saying a sub on its own is an overprice, that ship sailed long ago...but sure were annoying me to no end when I started playing MMOs.
  Oberholzer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/25/06
Posts: 502

5/13/14 9:32:38 AM#32
I don't love or hate payment models, what I do love are good games. If I find a game I like payment model is meaningless to me.  I'll play a good sub game, I'll pay a good free game. I think folks should worry less about trying to convince people what payment model is best or justified and more on enjoying the games. 
  Jemcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1369

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

5/13/14 9:32:51 AM#33
Not everyone can run out and find a job.  For those who do work and look down their noses in high almighty judgement on those who don't be careful - karma is a bitch.  You ready for hospital bills?  Your corp to shut down and lay you off?  Unemployment numbers up up up?  A good portion of the population cannot work a monetary tax ridden income.  That does not mean they don't contribute.  Mothers, elderly, students, and sick have a place in society that doesn't always fit in the damned public system.  Plus there simply isn't 1 paying job per 1 need to be paid person ratio like you make it sound.  There are only so many jobs that can be filled.  So carry your burden of being honorably employed in stoic silence - lessn u want me to steal ur job, noob.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1670

5/13/14 9:37:27 AM#34
Originally posted by st3v3b0

Money is not the problem.  It is the feeling of obligation to put time into the game when I do not have the time to spare.  I'd almost rather purchase a small block of hours for the weeks I do have ample time to play that way on the weeks I do not have much (or any) I don't feel bad for paying for something I am not utilizing.

The whole argument of $0.50 a day is crap too.  The real amount is the subscription cost divided by the number of days you actually play.  While that still does not boil down to a lot of money it is still a more accurate representation of the amount of money you are paying with utilizing the game.

I completely agree with this. The obligation factor is huge for me when I am playing a sub based game. If I am not spending the majority of my gaming time with a game I am paying for then I do feel like I am essentially wasting money. Additionally, if people did break down the amount of time they are in the game and divide that by the $15 per month, then they will see the true dollar value of their sub. Some months when someone is extremely active, that $15 is a steal. Other months where you maybe play a few hours total, yeah not so much.

I'll also reiterate something I've said numerous times on this topic, which has also been brought up by others. Subs have to have greater value than B2P or F2P games. In the early days of mmos there was a ton of value in the price of the sub, simply because having an online component to games was pretty rare. As the internet became more widespread and with the advent of broadband, the commonality of online components to all games increased. Online multiplayer is something that is more or less required in nearly all games now. If all games (including console games) are offering online multiplay without a monthly sub attached, the value of sub based games decreases even further.

Before someone comes along and states, well mmorpgs have thousands of people playing together, let me ask you this. Out of all of the thousands of people on your server, how many are you really playing with on a regular basis?

In PvE you're playing with a fixed number of folks at a given time. In dungeons/raids you're with 3-37 other people (if the smallest group size is 4, and let's say capped at 40 for raids on average with variations of course). Even in open world pve, you're most likely not going to see more than 100 people in a zone at a time on average (much less most likely). You can't really count extremes of seeing no one in leveling zones, or hundreds during specific rare events (like the opening of AQ in WoW).

In PvP, you might see a few hundred in a zone if it's a zergfest (DAoC got pretty zergy, GW2 is notorious for it). Otherwise, it's mostly fixed numbers either due to a smaller population (open world ffa pvp) or a fixed number (instanced battlegrounds). Even if you take WoW's 40v40 maps, you're looking at a max of 80 folks in the map. FPS games being able to support 64 v 64 maps make instance battlegrounds in mmos a little less special.

All things considered, aside from the setting, sub based mmos don't seemingly offer anything unique over the other choices we have for online multiplayer in nearly all games now.

  Betaguy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2647

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

5/13/14 9:42:34 AM#35
Originally posted by lizardbones

The only necessary, plausible reason is that they do not want to pay a subscription.  It need not go any further than that.

 

**

 

Edit : Comma.

Truth ^^^ QFEx2

  Jabas

Elite Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 1148

5/13/14 9:43:57 AM#36

So the idea is throw 13 euros to trash can just because i have spare Money?

Thats not how i spend my Money, all the Money i have come from my work and i try to spend wiselly.

If i enter somewhere to drink a coffe and it cost 1 euro, will be my last time in that place because theres alot of equal places that only cost 0.60. But if the place is special in some way, why not, might worth 1 euro for a coffe.

Some goes to mmoprgs, only give 13 euros per month (or more) in a game if i think it worth it, i dont give it away just because 13 euros is a small amount of Money. I dont understand this kind of mentality.

And in last years mmorpgs dont worth box price plus monthly fee when they release imo, some only worth the monthly fee 1 year after release.

Sorry OP but for me your post dont make sense. (my personal opinion ofc)

  Betaguy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2647

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

5/13/14 9:48:33 AM#37
Originally posted by Jabas

So the idea is throw 13 euros to trash can just because i have spare Money?

Thats not how i spend my Money, all the Money i have come from my work and i try to spend wiselly.

If i enter somewhere to drink a coffe and it cost 1 euro, will be my last time in that place because theres alot of equal places that only cost 0.60. But if the place is special in some way, why not, might worth 1 euro for a coffe.

Some goes to mmoprgs, only give 13 euros per month (or more) in a game if i think it worth it, i dont give it away just because 13 euros is a small amount of Money. I dont understand this kind of mentality.

And in last years mmorpgs dont worth box price plus monthly fee when they release imo, some only worth the monthly fee 1 year after release.

Sorry OP but for me your post dont make sense. (my personal opinion ofc)

I am carefree with my money but I wouldn't sign up for a sub based game and not play it.... so your whole speech is not relevant.

We are talking about people that want to play the game but can't afford or justify paying for it.  There is a difference from what you are saying.

  Jaychi72

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/12
Posts: 69

5/13/14 9:57:32 AM#38

Once again I ask....

 

Looking for Volunteers to develop a game for Free.

Any takers?

 

Because that's basically what your asking game developers to do. Make you a game to play for free. Just so you can be entertained.

The hell with the devs, they don't need revenue or income.

 

And don't say oh they get paid through micro transactions. Because if the game stinks, (well it never stinks to the devs its always the players that complain because it doesn't suit them) They will never get paid and the game will go to waste. All that time, effort and personal money spend by them is gone. Why??? just so you don't have to sub or as you don't like to say it, pay for a game.

 

Majority of people who play f2p games don't even use micro transactions. They play the game with as little content,items, or whatever they get without paying for it just to play a game for free.

 

  Jabas

Elite Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 1148

5/13/14 10:01:16 AM#39
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Jabas

So the idea is throw 13 euros to trash can just because i have spare Money?

Thats not how i spend my Money, all the Money i have come from my work and i try to spend wiselly.

If i enter somewhere to drink a coffe and it cost 1 euro, will be my last time in that place because theres alot of equal places that only cost 0.60. But if the place is special in some way, why not, might worth 1 euro for a coffe.

Some goes to mmoprgs, only give 13 euros per month (or more) in a game if i think it worth it, i dont give it away just because 13 euros is a small amount of Money. I dont understand this kind of mentality.

And in last years mmorpgs dont worth box price plus monthly fee when they release imo, some only worth the monthly fee 1 year after release.

Sorry OP but for me your post dont make sense. (my personal opinion ofc)

I am carefree with my money but I wouldn't sign up for a sub based game and not play it.... so your whole speech is not relevant.

We are talking about people that want to play the game but can't afford or justify paying for it.  There is a difference from what you are saying.

Well, then sorry for my post, seams i missunderstand the OP.

I didnt saw "can´t afford" in OP post, what i read was OP trying to convice ppl that for some reason dont want P2P certain game or games in general, that 15 dollars was a real real small amount of money.

My bad.

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3728

5/13/14 10:08:52 AM#40
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Seelinnikoi

 

What is really the excuse of people hating subscriptions so much?

 

Some people just like p2w OP. A lot of people have no problem buying gold. They are the same people who roll into flavor of the month classes. The same people who exploit broken mechanics. 

That's silly.  The vast majority of people playing non-subscription games are paying significantly less than a subscription.

So for most of the people playing non-subscription games, that is obviously not the reason.  Unless your argument is 'Some people just like for other people to p2W.  They have no problem with other people buying gold, because they know they are SO badass and good at games that no amount of money other people spend can give them an advantage'.

That makes about as much sense as your argument, except actual facts on F2P spending habits makes my (admittedly stupid theory) MORE likely because it reflects the actual facts of what F2P players spend.

Actually, that's my new stance on games.  Subscription based games are simply for players who are so bad at games they refuse to even try to win when the odds are against them.

 

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