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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » The main problem is game design

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51 posts found
  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2756

5/05/14 7:06:07 AM#41

The inevitable loud exodus of locusts will occur in the next week as the subs kick in. They will all be justyfing their departure with a wide variety of reasons (as they do after the first 4-6 weeks in every new MMO).

 

Then we'll be left with the real fans as well as a bunch of people that secretly believe everything on the "planned feature list" will actually be delivered in the next 4 to 6 weeks. That latter group will be posting doom threads for the next month where they predict that "if feature X isn't implemented NAO" the game will be F2P in a month or two and/or they'll cancel their sub. None of them ever internalise the fact that "during the rest of 2014" could be 6 months or longer. Many of these people are already posting about how all the bugs STILL haven't been fixed, as if it's 4 months (not 4 weeks) since launch.

 

The future of the game hinges on the success of the console launch. If that goes well, it's rainbows and roses and many years of happy gameplay for all in Tamriel. If the uptake on consoles is dissappointing, all bets are off.

Somehow, I don't think that Zenimax will be willing to have ESO just limping along generating insufficient cash to fund it's ambitous future content plans. Or will they be content to subsidize development and take a long-term approach to success ? A new single-player ES game can't be too far away, and it's arrival will be a renewed marketing boost for ESO.

  evilized

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 489

5/05/14 3:43:28 PM#42
At this point, my opinion is that the IP should never have gone to zeni. They are completely overwhelmed and out of their league with this game. I think after the next couple months you will start to see heads roll at Zenimax along with a fairly substantial downsizing of their staff. This of course is assuming the console release doesn't hit it's target and they continue to bleed subs from PC as well. The game will hold on but it's going to take 8-12 months of patching to fix the game and make it long-term viable at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if the game was making a transition to a hybrid F2P model by this time next year with new content available as DLC packs along with season passes like you see on steam.
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17008

5/05/14 3:47:39 PM#43
Originally posted by evilized
At this point, my opinion is that the IP should never have gone to zeni.

It didn't "go" to them, their parent company owns it.

It feels like their purpose was to make use of the IP for the mmo.

  ChicagoCub

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 272

5/05/14 3:48:36 PM#44
Originally posted by Havekk
Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
Maybe Naoki Yoshida (FFXIV - ARR) is available to fix this mess...  Zenimax needs to take a cue from Square Enix.

 

What? Make a shitty game, cancel it, make it slightly less shitty and re-release it? Yeah... That's what I want.

Well they've already done the first part.  The question is what are they prepared to do to fix it?

  evilized

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 489

5/05/14 4:18:45 PM#45
Rights to the IP went to Zenimax, that's why they were able to make a game with elder scrolls in the name.
  User Deleted
5/05/14 5:10:43 PM#46
Originally posted by d_20

Okay, I'm not an expert in game design. I'm just a guy who plays a lot of games. There is a lot about this game that I love. But if we are going to be honest, there are a lot of problems as well. The things I'm going to talk about are, of course, based on my experiences in the game and my observations of my guild's participation in the game.

 

TLDR: Because of (faulty in my opinion) game design, this game will go ftp within the year. I know others have predicted this. I hate this and I wanted to believe it was not true. My reasoning is below.

 

1 XP Potion Placeholder for future CS? I got this item as a quest reward. Tonic of Accelerated Time. When I got it, the name sounded like something that might give an xp boost. I couldn't use it. Here is a thread in the official forum. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/82790/tonic-of-accelerated-time

I didn't see why it would be necessary to get through the level 1-50 content, but after reaching VR 1, I can now see that a lot of people would be interested in this type of potion because of the game design making the VR levels much harder to get through.

 

2 This game needs a lot of people in AvA (Cyrodiil) to be fun in the long-term, but fewer people are participating. This game was designed around three faction pvp in a very large open zone. If it is empty and if people are not participating, the heart of the game is gutted. Questing won't keep people around for long. And leveling alts is not attractive in this game. If people hit a wall grinding VR levels, they will quit.

 

3 The VR grind is way over-the-top for today's casual gamers. So, people are going to quit after they hit 50 and realize what is in front of them. That means the VR10 (possible exploiters from what I understand) vamps (I know there is going to be "a fix" for the vamps) who are currently farming noobs in Cyrodiil at will, are going to drive away lower level players. It's not fun for them.

I get that the leveling from VR1-12 might be kind of old school, but if you have a game designed around a system that needs a lot of people (3 faction pvp in Cyrodiil) to be fun, then when you drive away casual gamers, the game will dry up. People won't pay subs to be farmed in Cyrodiil, or to be forced to group to level from VR 6-12. You pretty much need to group if you can to have any fun leveling from VR 1-5, in my opinion. That's bad because it wasn't really necessary at all for levels 1-50 where most of the people in my guild still are and where I assume most casual players still are.

 

My guild has about 250 members with turn over. New people are coming in, people leave, there is a steady core. They were mainly centered in GW2. Most people in my guild came over to ESO because they wanted to pvp together like we did in GW2 -- That is our main guild activity at least twice a week -- with a core of people who go to WvW every day. They thought this would be possible in ESO. On a typical evening at prime time we have 40 people active for guild events. They were nearly all in ESO after launch. Now, they are moving back to GW2. I can see who is where in Team Speak. We had about 8-10 people in ESO last night.

 

There are a few of us still grinding away at VRs, grouping up sometimes and having fun, but far fewer people to play with than before. This is normal for games after the first month, I know. But it doesn't bode well for AvA.

 

I hope I am wrong, but based on these observations (forget about bugs, etc.) this is what I see.

 

Someone please tell me I'm wrong and that all this will be worked out, ESO will stay sub-based, there won't be xp potions in the cash shop, and AvA will be thriving 6 months from now.

 

 

 

 

 

I suggest to wait around 3-6 months. Yesterday I logged to try to run a VR dungeon and while waiting something in the chat called my attention. Seems more players started to advertise their guilds as a "grinding guild" literally. The buzz now is grinding. Seems players are in open world grinding to the death as I couldn't never find a group to run a VR dungeon with my healer. The future of AvA? I don't see any future at least in the Dawnbreaker campaign. Aldmeri Dominion owns that campaign since day 1. The whole Cyrodiil map is colored in yellow except the areas that can't be changed. Anyone that wants something other than getting the skyshards should go to another campaign.

I think the patch will improve the XP gains. I wish good luck to your guild. I told my guildies I may be back in summer as  am back to Skyrim, hell yes.

 

  d_20

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/14/14
Posts: 272

 
OP  5/05/14 7:08:09 PM#47
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

The inevitable loud exodus of locusts will occur in the next week as the subs kick in. They will all be justyfing their departure with a wide variety of reasons (as they do after the first 4-6 weeks in every new MMO).

 

Then we'll be left with the real fans as well as a bunch of people that secretly believe everything on the "planned feature list" will actually be delivered in the next 4 to 6 weeks. That latter group will be posting doom threads for the next month where they predict that "if feature X isn't implemented NAO" the game will be F2P in a month or two and/or they'll cancel their sub. None of them ever internalise the fact that "during the rest of 2014" could be 6 months or longer. Many of these people are already posting about how all the bugs STILL haven't been fixed, as if it's 4 months (not 4 weeks) since launch.

 

The future of the game hinges on the success of the console launch. If that goes well, it's rainbows and roses and many years of happy gameplay for all in Tamriel. If the uptake on consoles is dissappointing, all bets are off.

Somehow, I don't think that Zenimax will be willing to have ESO just limping along generating insufficient cash to fund it's ambitous future content plans. Or will they be content to subsidize development and take a long-term approach to success ? A new single-player ES game can't be too far away, and it's arrival will be a renewed marketing boost for ESO.

I can see you've been around these forums for a while. This is a nice condensed overview of what we will probably see.

 

According to today's mmorpg.com  interview with Paul Sage, most players are still in zones 2 and 3. I think we will hear a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth once they defeat Molag Bal, hit 50 and think they are at endgame. Then they get to find out about VR grinding. Meanwhile, if they want to pvp in Cyrodiil, the remaining "locusts" will be stomping on all the low VRs (especially those who are Vampires, if that problem is not fixed with Vamp OP-ness). 

 

To add insult to injury, no more xp for exploration and chests. So one VR level is like 10 levels pre-50. People aren't going to like that much. You will hear about it in a month or two, quite loudly.

  d_20

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/14/14
Posts: 272

 
OP  7/03/14 12:37:20 AM#48

Was this game intended to be a niche game?

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/8669/Elder-Scrolls-Online-Is-ESO-Dying-or-Just-Carving-a-Niche.html

 

This game is not living up to it's $200 million development price tag because of poor design. I'm no longer subbed because in spite of the poor design decisions discussed above, some patches seem to break more than they fix. I'm not paying for that.

 

Maybe Zeni will have this figured out in 6 months to a year and we will see ESO's population grow again up to the levels expected prior to launch. Who knows?

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5151

7/03/14 3:58:45 AM#49
Fair enough d20, but saying this to all the posters out there, you played, your not subbed now, will you still be coming back for Christmas and telling us why the game was  not for you? :)
  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6827

7/03/14 4:49:38 AM#50


Originally posted by d_20

According to today's mmorpg.com  interview with Paul Sage, most players are still in zones 2 and 3. I think we will hear a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth once they defeat Molag Bal, hit 50 and think they are at endgame. Then they get to find out about VR grinding.


What makes you think they hit 50 at all? What if most of the player base never actually reach cap? Does it apply to all games?

It is easy to toss around theories when you have no data whatsoever...


People come and go all the time but something as vague does not tell you much and making claims founded on myopatic perception through very own bias isn't very constructive nor smart.

  Amana

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 1/03/11
Posts: 2340

7/03/14 10:04:21 AM#51
Locking this because it is months old. If you want to discuss the contents of an older thread, link to that older thread in a new one instead of bringing up inactive ones.

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