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General Discussion  » How do you feel about this public everything?

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45 posts found
  Celusios

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 352

 
OP  5/04/14 7:22:45 PM#1

How are you guys feeling about this public everything? For those of you who don't know what I mean, I'm talking about how in ESO every single quest dungeon and etc (with the exception of main quests) is public. 

I personally despise this system because I cannot remember how many times now I have gone into a dungeon looking to clear out some mobs only to find them dead. Not only that but then you go to kill the boss and there is 6-10 others there waiting as well which gives you a really dumbed down experience. I mean, so many times now I have entered a boss fight only to get one hit in because a group of others are already attacking.

Outside of dungeons I get a really crowded experience. I mean soooo many of the mob areas (often times that require you to kill) are so heavily camped by people trying to power level.

TL;DR - This megaserver is a huge fail in my opinion.

  jonesing22

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/01/10
Posts: 706

5/04/14 7:48:23 PM#2
Yeah I agree having public dungeons and public 'everything' as you said, the megaserver is a bad move. Too many people. EQ did well with public dungeons because it had separate servers. Although, EQ's dungeons were HUGE with multiple bosses and there were a numerous dungeons for any level range. meh EQ dungeons> all others.
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17300

5/04/14 7:48:32 PM#3
Originally posted by Celusios

How are you guys feeling about this public everything? For those of you who don't know what I mean, I'm talking about how in ESO every single quest dungeon and etc (with the exception of main quests) is public. 

I personally despise this system because I cannot remember how many times now I have gone into a dungeon looking to clear out some mobs only to find them dead. Not only that but then you go to kill the boss and there is 6-10 others there waiting as well which gives you a really dumbed down experience. I mean, so many times now I have entered a boss fight only to get one hit in because a group of others are already attacking.

Outside of dungeons I get a really crowded experience. I mean soooo many of the mob areas (often times that require you to kill) are so heavily camped by people trying to power level.

TL;DR - This megaserver is a huge fail in my opinion.

I kind of agree with you.

this was something I mentioned in my feedback in beta. I love public dungeons but having specific quests tied to bosses in dungeons has proven "not fun". I've gotten most of my quest objectives done by just "showing up" and having some one else do the dirty work. Or in the cases where I need to attack the boss I might "tap it" and that's it.

I think public dungeons work better in grind games. At least my experience.

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2379

5/04/14 7:52:35 PM#4

I don't think you're quite understanding that public dungeons isn't the problem.  The actual DESIGN of the public dungeons is where it fails to live up to expectations.

 

Firstly, dungeons are overcrowded due to how small they are.  Most of them are copy/paste dungeons, at least from what I've experienced so far, and they just don't consist of a whole lot.  I have yet to experience a public dungeon with more than one map area, or more than one level, or consist of more than a few hallways and rooms.  If these dungeons had more area and scope to them, you wouldn't see so many people all of the time.  DAoC did them very well.  They had several layers.  Some of them had very complex tunnels and large separate wings to them.  Some areas were too difficult to get through alone.  ESO dungeons are simple, solo'able and lack any sort of creativity whatsoever.  

 

Secondly, the boss design is the problem, not the public nature.  These bosses do not have timers for loot, as it would prevent farming by bots.  This is what you are experiencing.  Bots are camping the bosses because the loot is extremely high, given the bosses quick spawn rate and ease of difficulty.  ZOS is fixing this by adding a feature that should stop farmers from being able to receive gear and experience from these bosses within a given time frame.  It's a simple fix, though, it seems that they didn't have the foresight to recognize the potential issue from the start.  Once this is fixed, this issue should be resolved.  Then you'll be complaining at the difficulty of the bosses.

 

Outside of dungeons, it is meant to be crowded.  The whole idea of a megaserver is to make sure the players never feel alone.  ZOS effectively eliminates server population imbalances, as well as helps prevent ghost towns.  People playing MMO's do not want to feel like no one else is playing with them.  So, perhaps you didn't quite think this complaint through.  Would you rather have no one else playing with you?  Seems as if you'd prefer to play Skyrim.  I believe that game has already been released.

 

The megaserver fails in other areas though.  Instancing and phasing that affects group play is the most obvious.  Megaservers also hurt community building.   I also prefer persistent PvP and seamless worlds, which ESO does not provide, and it's largely design choices affected directly by the choice of using megaserver technology.  That is another discussing though.

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2379

5/04/14 7:53:18 PM#5
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Celusios

How are you guys feeling about this public everything? For those of you who don't know what I mean, I'm talking about how in ESO every single quest dungeon and etc (with the exception of main quests) is public. 

I personally despise this system because I cannot remember how many times now I have gone into a dungeon looking to clear out some mobs only to find them dead. Not only that but then you go to kill the boss and there is 6-10 others there waiting as well which gives you a really dumbed down experience. I mean, so many times now I have entered a boss fight only to get one hit in because a group of others are already attacking.

Outside of dungeons I get a really crowded experience. I mean soooo many of the mob areas (often times that require you to kill) are so heavily camped by people trying to power level.

TL;DR - This megaserver is a huge fail in my opinion.

I kind of agree with you.

this was something I mentioned in my feedback in beta. I love public dungeons but having specific quests tied to bosses in dungeons has proven "not fun". I've gotten most of my quest objectives done by just "showing up" and having some one else do the dirty work. Or in the cases where I need to attack the boss I might "tap it" and that's it.

I think public dungeons work better in grind games. At least my experience.

No, they work when designed properly.  The type of game doesn't matter.

  Allacore69

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 878

5/04/14 7:54:37 PM#6

I like it.

  Pemmin

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/14
Posts: 116

5/04/14 7:56:05 PM#7

I think its more of the public dungeons being stupid tiny that the cause of the problem not the fact that they are public.

i think the smart way to have done it would have been much bigger dungeons with the boss room being a separate instanced area with a person cap. would allow for more interesting mob AI as well.

  Kinado

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/08/13
Posts: 190

5/04/14 7:58:58 PM#8

Megaserver is good for one thing : avoiding bad publicity of having to merge servers when the population runs low.

Due to the megaserver we:

_lost normal pvp servers

_desynch from group members in phasing

_lost the sense of community as there are always different people phasing in with you, no sense of server rivalry either as its just one big soup of PVE.

_have other players around us everywhere. This can be good and bad. Good because they might jump in to help you with a quest, bad because they steal every chest and resource node from you. Funny thing is, nobody talks to each other. We just pop in, help with a quest or steal a chest/resource and pop out.

ESO is the kind of game that frustrates me because of how good it could be, specially since it runs soo smoothly and looks so good, but due to bad design choices the game simply sucks at the moment. Only a blind man or a quest addict cannot see the whole picture of what's wrong with ESO right now.

  Warjin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/25/09
Posts: 1208

5/04/14 8:06:18 PM#9
I like it, makes it feel like a MMO, besides we have instant dungs too, I say the more options the better.
  d_20

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/14/14
Posts: 300

5/04/14 8:08:29 PM#10
Originally posted by Kinado

_have other players around us everywhere. This can be good and bad. Good because they might jump in to help you with a quest, bad because they steal every chest and resource node from you. Funny thing is, nobody talks to each other. We just pop in, help with a quest or steal a chest/resource and pop out.

 

I agree with this. After having played GW2 for a while, I forgot what absolute d-bags people can be to each other when they have the option.

 

As to the other problems, I think they won't be as bad once the leveling run is over and the game is in its "mature" phase. But I know that doesn't help us right now, and a lot of people won't be around later for various reasons, I think, especially when they realize what VR leveling has in store for them.

  Vannor

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2997

5/04/14 8:10:20 PM#11
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Celusios

How are you guys feeling about this public everything? For those of you who don't know what I mean, I'm talking about how in ESO every single quest dungeon and etc (with the exception of main quests) is public. 

I personally despise this system because I cannot remember how many times now I have gone into a dungeon looking to clear out some mobs only to find them dead. Not only that but then you go to kill the boss and there is 6-10 others there waiting as well which gives you a really dumbed down experience. I mean, so many times now I have entered a boss fight only to get one hit in because a group of others are already attacking.

Outside of dungeons I get a really crowded experience. I mean soooo many of the mob areas (often times that require you to kill) are so heavily camped by people trying to power level.

TL;DR - This megaserver is a huge fail in my opinion.

I kind of agree with you.

this was something I mentioned in my feedback in beta. I love public dungeons but having specific quests tied to bosses in dungeons has proven "not fun". I've gotten most of my quest objectives done by just "showing up" and having some one else do the dirty work. Or in the cases where I need to attack the boss I might "tap it" and that's it.

I think public dungeons work better in grind games. At least my experience.

No, they work when designed properly.  The type of game doesn't matter.

I like the way you justified your opinion with an in depth and appropriate response.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17300

5/04/14 8:22:28 PM#12
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Celusios

How are you guys feeling about this public everything? For those of you who don't know what I mean, I'm talking about how in ESO every single quest dungeon and etc (with the exception of main quests) is public. 

I personally despise this system because I cannot remember how many times now I have gone into a dungeon looking to clear out some mobs only to find them dead. Not only that but then you go to kill the boss and there is 6-10 others there waiting as well which gives you a really dumbed down experience. I mean, so many times now I have entered a boss fight only to get one hit in because a group of others are already attacking.

Outside of dungeons I get a really crowded experience. I mean soooo many of the mob areas (often times that require you to kill) are so heavily camped by people trying to power level.

TL;DR - This megaserver is a huge fail in my opinion.

I kind of agree with you.

this was something I mentioned in my feedback in beta. I love public dungeons but having specific quests tied to bosses in dungeons has proven "not fun". I've gotten most of my quest objectives done by just "showing up" and having some one else do the dirty work. Or in the cases where I need to attack the boss I might "tap it" and that's it.

I think public dungeons work better in grind games. At least my experience.

No, they work when designed properly.  The type of game doesn't matter.

Timing has nothign to do with it.

Secondly, the boss design is the problem, not the public nature.  These bosses do not have timers for loot, as it would prevent farming by bots.  This is what you are experiencing. 

Bots are only a small part of the problme. My issue is more with players.

If you kill a boss and we have to wait for a spawn time on the boss or looting, that isn't going to do anyting for "me" who shows up "just" as the boss is downed but I'm in the vicinity and I get credit.

If I "just" arrive and the boss is downed then that's not fun. If I wait and the boss spawns and all the players  in the area burn it down in two seconds or less then that's not fun. Believe it or not players are actually camping these bosses just to get the kill, most of my experience has to do with players.

You seem to be looking at this solely through the lens of "bots bots bots" and that's a very narrow view of the situation.

  evilized

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 561

5/04/14 8:39:28 PM#13
this thread is proof that MMO's are, and have been, heading in the wrong direction for nearly a decade. instancing needs to go away.
  thark

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/01/03
Posts: 1107

5/04/14 8:49:39 PM#14
Originally posted by DAS1337

I don't think you're quite understanding that public dungeons isn't the problem.  The actual DESIGN of the public dungeons is where it fails to live up to expectations.

 

Firstly, dungeons are overcrowded due to how small they are.  Most of them are copy/paste dungeons, at least from what I've experienced so far, and they just don't consist of a whole lot.  I have yet to experience a public dungeon with more than one map area, or more than one level, or consist of more than a few hallways and rooms.  If these dungeons had more area and scope to them, you wouldn't see so many people all of the time.  DAoC did them very well.  They had several layers.  Some of them had very complex tunnels and large separate wings to them.  Some areas were too difficult to get through alone.  ESO dungeons are simple, solo'able and lack any sort of creativity whatsoever.  

 

Secondly, the boss design is the problem, not the public nature.  These bosses do not have timers for loot, as it would prevent farming by bots.  This is what you are experiencing.  Bots are camping the bosses because the loot is extremely high, given the bosses quick spawn rate and ease of difficulty.  ZOS is fixing this by adding a feature that should stop farmers from being able to receive gear and experience from these bosses within a given time frame.  It's a simple fix, though, it seems that they didn't have the foresight to recognize the potential issue from the start.  Once this is fixed, this issue should be resolved.  Then you'll be complaining at the difficulty of the bosses.

 

Outside of dungeons, it is meant to be crowded.  The whole idea of a megaserver is to make sure the players never feel alone.  ZOS effectively eliminates server population imbalances, as well as helps prevent ghost towns.  People playing MMO's do not want to feel like no one else is playing with them.  So, perhaps you didn't quite think this complaint through.  Would you rather have no one else playing with you?  Seems as if you'd prefer to play Skyrim.  I believe that game has already been released.

 

The megaserver fails in other areas though.  Instancing and phasing that affects group play is the most obvious.  Megaservers also hurt community building.   I also prefer persistent PvP and seamless worlds, which ESO does not provide, and it's largely design choices affected directly by the choice of using megaserver technology.  That is another discussing though.

I do not Think hes talking about the small dungeons market with a torch on the map, hes talking about the quest and quest objectives in most of the quests. In general in these dungeons you mention you mostly don't even have a quest, you just run in kill the boss and you are finished.

And again..Outside dungeons or quests is not either really what he is complaing about.

 the complaint is aimed towards how the "quests" are told to you, for example "let's enter the dwemer ruins that has not been entered in ages or someones Dream that has to be entered in by very special means, and yet you see 10 other players doing the same thing as you and kills the boss for you etc etc,

If Zenimax really thought this true , atleast they should boost the enemies so they last longer based on how many players there are, right now it.s the same solo boss regardless of number of players.

  artemisentr4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1441

5/04/14 8:52:14 PM#15

It's been hit or miss for me. I have had the bad ones with a lot of other players and multiple bots on the boss. I haven't had an issue with killing the boss. I always get a swing off and get credit, but I would like it to be a challenge.

 

But then the last two I did weren't that bad. I went in and waited till the first mobs popped back up. Then went through with only one other player. In two different dungeons. There weren't any bots in both of them for me last night. It felt more like it should. Just myself and one other player. Then another joined at the boss, but I have no issues with getting help. Just the bots or multiple players that make it too easy.

 

 

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  Scorchien

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/12/06
Posts: 1095

5/04/14 8:53:32 PM#16
The mega server is the problem ,not the public aspect, hopefully other devs are learning something from this terrible mechanic ....
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17300

5/04/14 9:11:52 PM#17
Originally posted by thark
 

 the complaint is aimed towards how the "quests" are told to you, for example "let's enter the dwemer ruins that has not been entered in ages or someones Dream that has to be entered in by very special means, and yet you see 10 other players doing the same thing as you and kills the boss for you etc etc,

If Zenimax really thought this true , atleast they should boost the enemies so they last longer based on how many players there are, right now it.s the same solo boss regardless of number of players.

I agree with you.

Quests don't "feel right" when you are hiding behind some crates to spy on someone and 3 other people are actually "on top of you" doing the same thing.

Quests don't feel right when you are sneaking into a house to steal something back and 10 other people are doing the same thing.

And as I've said, they don't feel right when I arrive just as a boss goes down and I get credit. Then I wait around until the respawn so I can actually "do" something and not feel like a "schlub".

  Selphea

Novice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2

5/04/14 10:15:02 PM#18

I think the instancing has its head on backwards.

The main story solo quests that kill players many times over should be shareable so we can hop in and help if a friend needs help.

On the other hand, the 3-mob public dungeons should be instanced. The 5-mob ones that scale can stay public and scale with number of players inside. I don't see why they made easy, soloable dungeons public, but enforce strict solo on killer content that gates story progression.

It would make more sense to do it the other way around. Make public dungeons killer, make story easier. Make public dungeons not-so-public, make story less solo enforced.

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2379

5/04/14 10:20:20 PM#19
Originally posted by thark
Originally posted by DAS1337

I don't think you're quite understanding that public dungeons isn't the problem.  The actual DESIGN of the public dungeons is where it fails to live up to expectations.

 

Firstly, dungeons are overcrowded due to how small they are.  Most of them are copy/paste dungeons, at least from what I've experienced so far, and they just don't consist of a whole lot.  I have yet to experience a public dungeon with more than one map area, or more than one level, or consist of more than a few hallways and rooms.  If these dungeons had more area and scope to them, you wouldn't see so many people all of the time.  DAoC did them very well.  They had several layers.  Some of them had very complex tunnels and large separate wings to them.  Some areas were too difficult to get through alone.  ESO dungeons are simple, solo'able and lack any sort of creativity whatsoever.  

 

Secondly, the boss design is the problem, not the public nature.  These bosses do not have timers for loot, as it would prevent farming by bots.  This is what you are experiencing.  Bots are camping the bosses because the loot is extremely high, given the bosses quick spawn rate and ease of difficulty.  ZOS is fixing this by adding a feature that should stop farmers from being able to receive gear and experience from these bosses within a given time frame.  It's a simple fix, though, it seems that they didn't have the foresight to recognize the potential issue from the start.  Once this is fixed, this issue should be resolved.  Then you'll be complaining at the difficulty of the bosses.

 

Outside of dungeons, it is meant to be crowded.  The whole idea of a megaserver is to make sure the players never feel alone.  ZOS effectively eliminates server population imbalances, as well as helps prevent ghost towns.  People playing MMO's do not want to feel like no one else is playing with them.  So, perhaps you didn't quite think this complaint through.  Would you rather have no one else playing with you?  Seems as if you'd prefer to play Skyrim.  I believe that game has already been released.

 

The megaserver fails in other areas though.  Instancing and phasing that affects group play is the most obvious.  Megaservers also hurt community building.   I also prefer persistent PvP and seamless worlds, which ESO does not provide, and it's largely design choices affected directly by the choice of using megaserver technology.  That is another discussing though.

I do not Think hes talking about the small dungeons market with a torch on the map, hes talking about the quest and quest objectives in most of the quests. In general in these dungeons you mention you mostly don't even have a quest, you just run in kill the boss and you are finished.

And again..Outside dungeons or quests is not either really what he is complaing about.

 the complaint is aimed towards how the "quests" are told to you, for example "let's enter the dwemer ruins that has not been entered in ages or someones Dream that has to be entered in by very special means, and yet you see 10 other players doing the same thing as you and kills the boss for you etc etc,

If Zenimax really thought this true , atleast they should boost the enemies so they last longer based on how many players there are, right now it.s the same solo boss regardless of number of players.

Based on your response, it would still be a design issue and not the fact that it's public when it comes to bosses.  I don't really want everything to be instanced, that would make it feel more like a single player game than it already is.

  Celusios

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 352

 
OP  5/05/14 1:03:13 AM#20

Good responses guys. As usual on this site you get some of the most split sidings. I'm shocked to see how many of you aren't annoyed or bothered by the "public" aspect. I see so many (including myself) complaining in game that I thought for sure we'd all be on the same side.

I do have to agree with the person who said that main stories should also be public then. For whatever bright reason ESO made it so the public solo dungeons are snorefest easy yet are the public instances... then you have the main quests which some of them feel as though they're made for several people.

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