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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » TESO: It's not me, it's you

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262 posts found
  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2818

 
OP  4/30/14 12:22:01 PM#141
Originally posted by cheyane

I am curious about something what is the law on software that does not work as advertised in the US. What is your remedy if any ? 

 

The reason I ask is by asking people to preorder a game and give them money Zenimax 'held out' legal principal that they have a working software one that will allow you to advance to end game. However the OP is unable to do that. I am saying he is entitled to a refund .Whether he should ask for it is a separate question.

That's one of the reasons why these contracts and agreements don't hold up in court. They're liable for selling a faulty product.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  cheyane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2431

4/30/14 12:24:08 PM#142
You guys are mixing up two salient issues. One is whether he is entitled legally to a refund and whether he should ethically ask for one. You are allowing the second to cloud the first.

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  syriinx

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 953

4/30/14 12:24:10 PM#143
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by cheyane

I am curious about something what is the law on software that does not work as advertised in the US. What is your remedy if any ? 

 

The reason I ask is by asking people to preorder a game and give them money Zenimax 'held out' legal principal that they have a working software one that will allow you to advance to end game. However the OP is unable to do that. I am saying he is entitled to a refund .Whether he should ask for it is a separate question.

That's one of the reasons why these contracts and agreements don't hold up in court. They're liable for selling a faulty product.

again every single MMORPG in existence is a fualty product.  there is no exception and never will be.

 

You just cant compare it to something like a TV.  Trying to make laws about other goods apply to software, and especially MMORPG is like trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2818

 
OP  4/30/14 12:25:58 PM#144
Originally posted by syriinx
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by cheyane

I am curious about something what is the law on software that does not work as advertised in the US. What is your remedy if any ? 

 

The reason I ask is by asking people to preorder a game and give them money Zenimax 'held out' legal principal that they have a working software one that will allow you to advance to end game. However the OP is unable to do that. I am saying he is entitled to a refund .Whether he should ask for it is a separate question.

That's one of the reasons why these contracts and agreements don't hold up in court. They're liable for selling a faulty product.

again every single MMORPG in existence is a fualty product.  there is no exception and never will be.

 

You just cant compare it to something like a TV.  Trying to make laws about other goods apply to software, and especially MMORPG is like trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

I didn't compare it to a T.V. that was someone else. Most any products can/will have defects. Not just MMOs. The fact that people in this very forum think it's okay for products to be broken is why companies are allowing for faulty products to be released. The general consensus is, "it's an MMO, it just released, it's broken, and it's fine because other MMOs have been known to be broken."


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  cheyane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2431

4/30/14 12:27:12 PM#145

Does the fact that every MMORPG releases with bugs change the law on software. Can you in principle get your money back on faulty software ?

 

I am asking this question can you if you go to court  argue every MMORPG releases buggy and that he is therefore not entitled to his refund  for buggy software.

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  BMBender

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 558

4/30/14 12:27:54 PM#146


Originally posted by cheyane
Does the fact that every MMORPG releases with bugs change the law on software. Can you in principle get your money back on faulty software ?

Currently it depends on where you live

  FlyByKnight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/31/12
Posts: 508

4/30/14 12:29:13 PM#147

"Bugs what bugs? I haven't seen one single bug in my ENTIRE time boosting in delves for xp and gold" -Idiot McBlindeye

 

"Maybe it's your PC or internet. Post your rig and dxdiag so we know you aren't a troll" -Terry Derpington

 

"Stop whin(g)ing in a time long long ago when all computers were tan, games were way buggier" -Stoopit Mtroski

 

"OMG it's not a big deal Zenimax is the best company I'm sure they'll fix it real soon." -Danny Fanner

 

"Even though I haven't played it, this game is the worst game in the history of the entire everything" -Thomas Hateration

 

"Despite the many bugs and flaws that ruin gameplay for people this game is a right step forward for the entire genre" -MM(  )RPG

  cheyane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2431

4/30/14 12:29:34 PM#148
Where you live you mean in the US state by state the law is different ?

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  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2818

 
OP  4/30/14 12:32:45 PM#149
[mod edit]

I might just FRAPS a few of the bugs I've experienced just for you ;). As many of them are repeatable.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  cheyane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2431

4/30/14 12:33:12 PM#150
It is an interesting conundrum that normally as far as I know you are entitled to a refund if you get buggy software so I am interested in knowing if MMORPGs software are an exception to this rule. Not sure how it is in the States though which is why I asked.

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  BMBender

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 558

4/30/14 12:36:33 PM#151


Originally posted by cheyane
Where you live you mean in the US state by state the law is different ?

nah mainly national differences, If your talking purely US then no not really your stuck with what you get unless the company in question decides on it's own to refund/recompense or not. From a legal perspective don't expect that to change anytime soon. There will be a market adjustment long before there is a legal one for the US. The games industry is simply to small a % of GDP to raise any type of legislative interest in either direction. Even companies like EA aren't gonna be able to "contribute" in the amount's that would move them and not enough "constituents" that would make them bother.

  cheyane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2431

4/30/14 12:39:17 PM#152
Thank you bmbender. You know I am not going into the ethics and stuff just legally so please understand these concerns do not reflect my actual ideas.

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  duiLucid

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/08
Posts: 68

4/30/14 12:41:50 PM#153
LOL, I'm not even Lvl 15 yet and I've been playing since head start.
  Hellidol

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 379

4/30/14 12:53:25 PM#154
The game is fun, I am a V10 right now and the bugs that I have run into have been minimal. There have been some people I known to run into major issues but from my perspective I would have to say the game has been a blast and I am looking forward to more fun.

  Havekk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/14/08
Posts: 1373

4/30/14 12:55:57 PM#155
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

Sad to say but today I'll be quitting Elder Scrolls Online. The battle to try and enjoy this game has ended and my VR5 character's journey will come to a close. Not because I want to but because I'm essentially forced to. I cannot progress through the game due to the sheer amount of bugs. Just like the issues with the main story line my character cannot progress into the VR6-10 zones because I cannot finish the 'Cadwell's Almanac" requirements. I've spent several days logging out, repeating, and repairing the game but to no avail I cannot progress.

I suppose I'll send in an e-mail to Zenimax tell them I want to obtain a refund and go back to playing less frustrating games like Dark Souls 2 since it just released. Seriously the game was fun when it worked but it has been an uphill struggle that has only become worse the further I progress. From falling through the world, not being able to use my skills and abilities, not being able to auto-attack, not being able to use my siege equipment, many broken quests many of which won't be fixed on the 1.1 patch release, to the infinite load screens, network I/O issues, the memory leak, and various other bugs or exploits.

Good by my little lizard man~ I'll miss you but I must move on and to commemorate this occasion a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ4yZ3OsoRs

Cool story... can I has your stuff?

  Havekk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/14/08
Posts: 1373

4/30/14 12:57:18 PM#156
Originally posted by duiLucid
LOL, I'm not even Lvl 15 yet and I've been playing since head start.

I'm in the same boat ROFL - I have been messing with making the perfect character for me... and apparently I don't know what I want haha. I'm having a blast and just hit 12 on my dood.

  Havekk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/14/08
Posts: 1373

4/30/14 12:58:23 PM#157
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Azmodeus
This dude burnt himself out on the game, and figures he needs to start his own sob story thread and blame a bug for him quitting.  I guess he got the attention he was looking for. 

I might just FRAPS a few of the bugs I've experienced just for you ;). As many of them are repeatable.

Can you name a few that were game breaking for me? Just want to make sure I can avoid them. 

  sirphobos

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 607

4/30/14 1:05:23 PM#158
I want refunds for all the MMOs I've purchased over the years that are no longer functioning because their servers have shut down.
  ShortyBible

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/14/10
Posts: 303

4/30/14 1:05:29 PM#159

I can't understand why posters would flame the OP for playing the game for 100 hrs. and then ask for a refund.

Is that what MMOs have come to these days?

I thought MMOs were meant to be played for years.

I played Ultima on Line  for 6 or 7 years, EVE for about the same amount of years.

I don't enjoy Theme Parks , but I still played Aion for over 2 years, and spent several years playing Vanguard.

If 100 hours is considered the completion of an MMO, then the future looks very bleak for the genre.

http://www.entropiapartners.com/?r=22415

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1363

4/30/14 1:06:10 PM#160

I am sure the fact that MTibbs1989 submitted bug reports (over 50 from comments above) will have supported his case that the game wasn't working "as it should". Throw in the extra server downtime, security issues and maybe bank bug issues etc.

Products - as a whole - have gotten better since the first mmos launched; from cars to kettles. The same is true of software.  

Noaki Yoshida's (FFXIV:ARR) spoke about FFXIV at GDC 2014. One of his slides: Three Easy Steps to Failure:

  • An unhealthy obsession with graphic quality
  • A surprising lack of MMORPG knowledge amongst development team members
  • The mindset that the solution to every problem could be patched in a future update
Point 3 certainly applies imo and considering the dupe bugs maybe point 2 as well. However good TESO sales and subscription numbers are they will not be as good as they might have been - because TESO released early. TESO clearly didn't learn the lessons of FF:XIV.

 

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