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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why don't we ever get cities and locations like this in MMOs?

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65 posts found
  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6847

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

4/26/14 11:20:56 AM#21
Originally posted by LeGrosGamer

ROFL, are you really asking this question or are you joking?   I've said it before and I'll say it again until the day I die it seems, a good community MMO where getting groups is no problem, you won't give a damn how the cities looks like since you'll be busy having fun killing stuff. If I'd want nice cities to view at I'll play Sim City, Anno 2070 or my personal favourite Cities XL

FFXI had great looking cities for it's era and FFXIV has them now.FFXI also had great grouping and great fun playing the classes inside of combat.

You NEED cities because it is suppose to be a RP'ing game,you should have cities,a place to live,eat and drink,places to shop ect ect.

It is one of the reasons i was extremely turned off by Wow when that game came out.I was dropped into the middle of nowhere,no reason just vee-line for a yellow marker and begin cheesy questing,so not MY game but Blizzard's laid out path for me to follow.

No game is perfect,some did do it better,keeping the game more like a MMO and more like a RP'ing game,others are what i hear people calling themeparks,they are not MMORPG's.A better phrase would be game on rails,everyone hops on the exact same train,never playing YOUR own game.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1036

4/26/14 11:55:44 AM#22

Most games cities don't even have enough space or houses to support the people that are standing around realistically.  Elder Scrolls offline games generally seems to try to have beds for each of it inhabitants. 

 

 But its mostly a designers choice because it's likely easier to have small villiages and lots of environmental areas than designing big cities and towns.  I think the Super Hero branch of the genre did a good job with cities and having quest built around them.  Would be pretty cool if they did have more city based quest in MMORPG's

  YoungCaesar

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 231

4/26/14 12:32:27 PM#23
Originally posted by flizzer
The idea of Minecraft is hugely popular with some people. My nephew can not stop playing the game. Whenever I introduce him to something else he inevitably returns to Minecraft. Me?  Minecraft bores the hell out of me.  Sure build this amazing city and then what.  Look at it?   I need a story, purpose, and path of progression to keep me interested.  I keep hearing in games like Minecraft you make your own story.  I beg to differ.  Spending hours building a castle is not making my own story.  It just is not for me. I am not so sure this would work as well as OP imagines it would in MMOs. 

This is why the sandbox is not complete without open pvp and asset destruction. Im sure theres ppl that enjoy more the building aspect of the game, but when its finished.. what then?? Just look at it? Now imagine having to defend that city you just created against a massive siege, or being able to siege another player city, expanding your territory because it has resources that you want. NOW this would be epic...

  MsPtibiscuit

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/24/14
Posts: 156

4/26/14 1:18:40 PM#24

It's coming, just wait for the "real Multiplayer MMORPG" era to begin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G6EXTBrwUY

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/26/14 1:45:14 PM#25

Because it is too costly to fill up a big city with interesting content, and most players don't want to play in a big empty city.

You can build one in minecraft and it looks good ... but you can't fill it with interesting stuff within a reasonable budget.

And GoT is best for its stories and characters .. so it would be much suitable for a point-n-click adventure, then a MMO.

 

  Mivi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 51

4/27/14 12:43:51 PM#26

Why don't we ever get cities and locations like this in MMOs?

cause ten minutes of loading time on good computers

  tandalove

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/14
Posts: 5

4/27/14 2:31:51 PM#27

In my opinion, content for adventuring is far more important than esthetics and playable space in home bases or cities. Give me a dynamic dungeon over a city block any day.

 

In games, I much prefer elaborate natural terrains anyways. There is something awe inspiring about finding a precipice somewhere which overlooks a vast terrain of gorgeous flora and fauna.

 

Having said that, I do concede that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But we play to "play", not to just hang out.

  ikcin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/15/13
Posts: 457

4/27/14 2:58:49 PM#28

It seems most of you still live in the last century. See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OpFkbL3DOI

-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G6EXTBrwUY

-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER5jehbB7QE

Big live open city, in big live open world, without loading screens. The problem is not in technology. Just you play broken games in broken worlds and think it is normal. It is your problem :)

And in fact you can play this game on Core 2 Duo, 2 GHz, and GeForce 9600 - my old computer :)

  Pigozz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/07
Posts: 853

Nihil gratis

4/27/14 3:09:11 PM#29
Originally posted by ikcin

It seems most of you still live in the last century. See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OpFkbL3DOI

-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G6EXTBrwUY

-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER5jehbB7QE

Big live open city, in big live open world, without loading screens. The problem is not in technology. Just you play broken games in broken worlds and think it is normal. It is your problem :)

And in fact you can play this game on Core 2 Duo, 2 GHz, and GeForce 9600 - my old computer :)

Just what I wanted to post

 

 

MMOs played chronologically:
Runescape,Lineage II, WoW,Tabula Rasa, AoC,Eve Online,Guild Wars, Rift(beta only),SWTOR(beta only),Star Trek Online
Most fun: Tabula Rasa

  Quesa

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 1265

4/27/14 3:13:04 PM#30

Cities like that look good as a SS but when it comes down to it, they are useless fluff and wasted dev time.  How often do you run around a city for hours exploring?  Maybe a little bit and only once.

I suppose if most of the content was centered on being around town then something like this might be ok but for what we play today, cities like that are a waste.

  kairel182

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/23/13
Posts: 170

4/27/14 3:14:32 PM#31
Originally posted by LeGrosGamer

ROFL, are you really asking this question or are you joking?   I've said it before and I'll say it again until the day I die it seems, a good community MMO where getting groups is no problem, you won't give a damn how the cities looks like since you'll be busy having fun killing stuff. If I'd want nice cities to view at I'll play Sim City, Anno 2070 or my personal favourite Cities XL

Killing isn't remotely what makes an MMO complete.  The fact that you're conditioned to think so black and white is astonishing if not shocking.  An MMO is about depth, and one of the things I'm amazed about is how well the world is crafted.

  Hokie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/11/04
Posts: 1057

Hey Devs, just so you know. The more you give us to play with, the more we play.

4/27/14 3:48:35 PM#32
Originally posted by DMKano

OP and what would you do in such a big city in a MMO?

Walk around and look at houses?

Unless the gameplay involved breaking into homes to steal, how many players would be interested in just roaming around a big city for no purpose?

You can do that in RL - go walk around suburbs, downtown, at least you get some exercise.

In game - building a huge city must have some gameplay purpose... what is it?

 

One I personally think it would be great.

The problem is how most Devs veiw and develop MMO's. They see them as either dungeon crawls or as themed outdoor (dungeon) crawls.

I cant tell you have many great games of AD&D I had in large cities. It just requires different thinking, beyond lets loot building. They almost all require a shift of focus off of combat and to subterfuge and intrigue and diplomacy and stealth and coercion and seduction and I could go on.

Sure combat can, does, and should play a part. But it would be great if they could and depth to MMO's.

 

Imagine two, three, or many five different rival merchant factions who are waging a clandestine cold war against each other. Using criminal elements to intimidate and control areas of the city at night and bribing city guards and officials to control territories by the day. Players could work for or against anyone of those elements and their underlings.

 

And thats just one example: What if you threw some lycanthropes into the mix? You could have all these factions and encounters working for, against, and parallel to each other. What about some court intrigues?

You cant do something like that in a small city.

It would have to be treated as a zone in itself. But not like a dungeon zone, this would (should) be going on in the players major city. Imagine you selling some vender trash just to see two groups of players breaking out into some PvP, or maybe beating up the vender you were just talking too.

Hell I can see that city zone being broken into three to four levels. Street encounters and movement, rooftop encounters and movement, building interior encounters, understreet and or sewer encounters and movement. And that picture would be about the perfect size.

 

Not to mention immersion. The cities that they call cities are nothing more than a small village. Boring and populated by mostly quest givers, trainers, and venders.

Only cities that felt some-what like a city was Altdorf in WAR, Stormwind in WoW isnt half-bad. And for that matter now that I think about it the destroyed City of Praag in WAR felt somewhat city-like too, better than most games for sure.

 

"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/27/14 4:29:21 PM#33
Originally posted by kairel182
Originally posted by LeGrosGamer

ROFL, are you really asking this question or are you joking?   I've said it before and I'll say it again until the day I die it seems, a good community MMO where getting groups is no problem, you won't give a damn how the cities looks like since you'll be busy having fun killing stuff. If I'd want nice cities to view at I'll play Sim City, Anno 2070 or my personal favourite Cities XL

Killing isn't remotely what makes an MMO complete.  The fact that you're conditioned to think so black and white is astonishing if not shocking.  An MMO is about depth, and one of the things I'm amazed about is how well the world is crafted.

An MMO is not "about anything". They are just entertainment products, and they are what players make them out to me.

For example, i play them as solo SP game with some online features ..... who says I cannot use a MMO like that?

  Talmien

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 76

4/27/14 4:40:40 PM#34
Originally posted by DMKano

OP and what would you do in such a big city in a MMO?

Walk around and look at houses?

Unless the gameplay involved breaking into homes to steal, how many players would be interested in just roaming around a big city for no purpose?

You can do that in RL - go walk around suburbs, downtown, at least you get some exercise.

In game - building a huge city must have some gameplay purpose... what is it?

 

This is the reason right here. Big Cities aren't wanted, and would annoy players more then thrill them. It might be nice to have a vista overlooking a large city, but actually walking through one is boring. The first Everquest had a huge world, it was huge because it took you hours to cross it, and that's if you knew where you were going. Its hard to think of, but I used to spend most of my game time just traveling. That not acceptable in MMOs anymore, travel needs to be quick or even instantaneous. Get you to the action and the fun stuff. And when that occurs the world shrinks because you need to filler or fluff in between. If anyone has tried Wildstar, its exacatly like this. It takes you 1-2 minutes to move one from one quest hub to the next, and less time to reach the spot where you need to complete a quest.

  nilden

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 935

4/27/14 6:20:27 PM#35
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by kairel182
Originally posted by LeGrosGamer

ROFL, are you really asking this question or are you joking?   I've said it before and I'll say it again until the day I die it seems, a good community MMO where getting groups is no problem, you won't give a damn how the cities looks like since you'll be busy having fun killing stuff. If I'd want nice cities to view at I'll play Sim City, Anno 2070 or my personal favourite Cities XL

Killing isn't remotely what makes an MMO complete.  The fact that you're conditioned to think so black and white is astonishing if not shocking.  An MMO is about depth, and one of the things I'm amazed about is how well the world is crafted.

An MMO is not "about anything". They are just entertainment products, and they are what players make them out to me.

For example, i play them as solo SP game with some online features ..... who says I cannot use a MMO like that?

Yeah because no one asks you why you play MMO's. Oh wait they do all the time because it's obvious MMO's are about something that being massively multiplayer and your playing them as solo single player games. It's a contradiction to the core of the genre. The entire premise is massively multiplayer. You have to completely ignore what makes the entire MMO genre unique in order to play a single player MMO.

How to post links.
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1036

4/27/14 6:40:46 PM#36
Originally posted by Talmien
Originally posted by DMKano

OP and what would you do in such a big city in a MMO?

Walk around and look at houses?

Unless the gameplay involved breaking into homes to steal, how many players would be interested in just roaming around a big city for no purpose?

You can do that in RL - go walk around suburbs, downtown, at least you get some exercise.

In game - building a huge city must have some gameplay purpose... what is it?

 

This is the reason right here. Big Cities aren't wanted, and would annoy players more then thrill them. It might be nice to have a vista overlooking a large city, but actually walking through one is boring. The first Everquest had a huge world, it was huge because it took you hours to cross it, and that's if you knew where you were going. Its hard to think of, but I used to spend most of my game time just traveling. That not acceptable in MMOs anymore, travel needs to be quick or even instantaneous. Get you to the action and the fun stuff. And when that occurs the world shrinks because you need to filler or fluff in between. If anyone has tried Wildstar, its exacatly like this. It takes you 1-2 minutes to move one from one quest hub to the next, and less time to reach the spot where you need to complete a quest.

 

You can do the same thing you do in any other game.  The story just changes.  City of Heroes was largely taking place in a huge zone modern city.  Still was wandering creeps, gangs, freaks or whatever.  You could go for a secret societies, thief and assassin guilds, political problems, religious wackos and cults,  sewer monsters.  Whatever your imagination takes you.  You just have to think outside of the box.  

 

But this is why we're feed the same stuff because people have been condition over the past decade to think every game has to be some sort of fantasy vertical questhub themepark game or how can it possibily work.  

  nilden

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 935

4/27/14 7:15:45 PM#37
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Originally posted by Talmien
Originally posted by DMKano

OP and what would you do in such a big city in a MMO?

Walk around and look at houses?

Unless the gameplay involved breaking into homes to steal, how many players would be interested in just roaming around a big city for no purpose?

You can do that in RL - go walk around suburbs, downtown, at least you get some exercise.

In game - building a huge city must have some gameplay purpose... what is it?

 

This is the reason right here. Big Cities aren't wanted, and would annoy players more then thrill them. It might be nice to have a vista overlooking a large city, but actually walking through one is boring. The first Everquest had a huge world, it was huge because it took you hours to cross it, and that's if you knew where you were going. Its hard to think of, but I used to spend most of my game time just traveling. That not acceptable in MMOs anymore, travel needs to be quick or even instantaneous. Get you to the action and the fun stuff. And when that occurs the world shrinks because you need to filler or fluff in between. If anyone has tried Wildstar, its exacatly like this. It takes you 1-2 minutes to move one from one quest hub to the next, and less time to reach the spot where you need to complete a quest.

 

You can do the same thing you do in any other game.  The story just changes.  City of Heroes was largely taking place in a huge zone modern city.  Still was wandering creeps, gangs, freaks or whatever.  You could go for a secret societies, thief and assassin guilds, political problems, religious wackos and cults,  sewer monsters.  Whatever your imagination takes you.  You just have to think outside of the box.  

 

But this is why we're feed the same stuff because people have been condition over the past decade to think every game has to be some sort of fantasy vertical questhub themepark game or how can it possibily work.  

Man talk about no imagination at all...

What if we combined APB, City of Heroes and GTA.

You could have PVP gang control areas, slums, strip clubs, darts, bowling, car dealerships, clothing stores, player owned houses and vehicles, shopping malls, casinos, banks to rob, bars, golf courses, gyms, swimming pools, air ports, military bases, player made mission system... hell you could literally put in any modern day activity as a game mechanic. Then give everyone super powers and make the entire thing dynamic by having the ability to build and destroy things. Then throw in an alien invasion.

Walk around and look at houses? For shame.

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  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/27/14 10:17:58 PM#38
Originally posted by nilden
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by kairel182
Originally posted by LeGrosGamer

ROFL, are you really asking this question or are you joking?   I've said it before and I'll say it again until the day I die it seems, a good community MMO where getting groups is no problem, you won't give a damn how the cities looks like since you'll be busy having fun killing stuff. If I'd want nice cities to view at I'll play Sim City, Anno 2070 or my personal favourite Cities XL

Killing isn't remotely what makes an MMO complete.  The fact that you're conditioned to think so black and white is astonishing if not shocking.  An MMO is about depth, and one of the things I'm amazed about is how well the world is crafted.

An MMO is not "about anything". They are just entertainment products, and they are what players make them out to me.

For example, i play them as solo SP game with some online features ..... who says I cannot use a MMO like that?

Yeah because no one asks you why you play MMO's. Oh wait they do all the time because it's obvious MMO's are about something that being massively multiplayer and your playing them as solo single player games. It's a contradiction to the core of the genre. The entire premise is massively multiplayer. You have to completely ignore what makes the entire MMO genre unique in order to play a single player MMO.

yeah .. so? MMO genre is not unique to me. They are just some other games sometimes i choose to play.

And what do you mean "no one ask me why i play MMOs". People here do all the time. In fact, I have a thread to answer.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5903519/thread/393247#5903519

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/27/14 10:19:55 PM#39
Originally posted by nilden

What if we combined APB, City of Heroes and GTA.

You could have PVP gang control areas, slums, strip clubs, darts, bowling, car dealerships, clothing stores, player owned houses and vehicles, shopping malls, casinos, banks to rob, bars, golf courses, gyms, swimming pools, air ports, military bases, player made mission system... hell you could literally put in any modern day activity as a game mechanic. Then give everyone super powers and make the entire thing dynamic by having the ability to build and destroy things. Then throw in an alien invasion.

 

Which devs have the resources to implement all that? Don't tell you expect players to play pimps, life-guards, travel agents, sales rep in retail stores and so on.

 

  crack_fox

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 402

4/28/14 5:54:03 AM#40
Neverwinter started out with just a big city. I think DDO did too. Freeport and Qeynos in EQ2 were large if rather lifeless. I think that part of the problem with making a city environment 'believable' is that it needs to feel busy and populated. Neverwinter did a reasonable job in that regard, with lots of npcs going about their own business. But I guess there must be a cost for all those npc routines, and also rendering all that detail in addition to being able to handle large numbers of pcs in a relatively small area. No doubt a city can be a great setting for adventures, but to do it real justice would take a lot of work and I think most players would soon want to get outside the walls and explore. 
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