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General Discussion  » Discrimination against hearing impaired in a new mmo?(ESO)

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66 posts found
  Purutzil

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2905

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

4/23/14 5:02:48 PM#41

Honestly I don't think they are discriminating knowingly. People tend to forget about issues that others have. Its not as if they WANT to leave people out, it just doesn't come to mind. Commonly, this is reflected for those who are colorblind who often get shafted on games when they first come out.

 

That said, I would emphasize the need for speech bubbles or other things. Its benefitial to everyone really, and it helps those who are hearing impaired have a chance to experience the game more fully.

  onlinenow25

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 282

4/23/14 5:06:51 PM#42
Originally posted by dbgager
Online....lol..Where exactly does it say in there advertisements or info on the game. " Game is hearing impaired freindly". Gross Neglicence for what. It is not harming him in any way whatsoever that he cannot play the game. That is truly dumb..Do you even understand what gross negligence means.  Nobody has stated or promised this poster that these things would be provided in the game.

If you read my post you would actually understand where the Gross Negligence comes from.

 

It comes from the person in this case OP asking for a solution to his disability, and Zenimax not providing one if they do not provide one.

 

While there may not be any laws to protect against this currently there will be, as with a whole bunch of new laws protecting both the consumer and business end of virtual property.

 

No matter what product is being using, if it is unusable by a select portion of a group of people it is discrimination.  By definition what the OP is experience is discrimination.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination

 

Here look up the definition I provided a link.  Its discrimination no matter how you slice it.  But can be easily fixed and seen as a simple oversight as long as Zenimax provides a solution to the OP's problem.

  onlinenow25

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 282

4/23/14 5:08:57 PM#43
Originally posted by Purutzil

Honestly I don't think they are discriminating knowingly. People tend to forget about issues that others have. Its not as if they WANT to leave people out, it just doesn't come to mind. Commonly, this is reflected for those who are colorblind who often get shafted on games when they first come out.

 

That said, I would emphasize the need for speech bubbles or other things. Its benefitial to everyone really, and it helps those who are hearing impaired have a chance to experience the game more fully.

Ownestly they probably arn't.  They just cut corners because they were strapped on time and didnt' think about those that are hard/can't hear.

 

The big issue comes up when this information is given to them, that their product is discriminitory towards the hard of hearing and if Zenimax provides no solution and ignores it.

 

Then it goes from Negligence, to Gross Negligence.

  LordZeik

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/08
Posts: 186

4/23/14 5:09:15 PM#44
I've seen people overcome their disabilities all the time and make do. Heck there is this one brave soul who plays league of legends without the use of his hands.(and does a better job than some of the people I've teamed with) Next time OP you may want to do a little more research before going all PC on Zenimax.  The addon system for ESO makes up for a good amount of it's shortcomings.
  Kuinn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 2092

4/23/14 5:11:56 PM#45
Originally posted by Crownregent

Hello.

As a born deaf person of 35 years old, I have played my share of mmos through the years.

Ultima Online was my first fully invested mmo and I was really thrilled that everything had to be written in order to be conveyed.

Then SWG came along and the same thread of info conveying was followed.

Wow started with missing speech bubbles here and there but they got fixed along the way.

Then there is Elder Scrolls Online...

Where to start? First Lydia and then the prophet... most people who is over the age of 20 cant properly hear what they say.

Then lots of the story chains where you have to follow people and they chat away you don't understand or hear what they say due to either crappy voice actors, weird accents or other issues.

Is any of this speech in writing? NO..... Not even in chat screen which would made it bearable.. but there has been times I have had to guess what the answer to questions were just because there wasn't any written proof to back up what I guessed.

Try to play the game from beginning to scratch with NO sound whatsoever... and then you maybe get what im upset about.

So in my honest opnion Eso is a discriminatory game against anyone who has a hearing impediment.

 

So Zenimax... unless u fix this shit.. u can forget me as a subscriber and probably everyone else who like to know the story in whole.

Crownregent

 

I was really surprised there's no subtitles to toggle on for this game, it's one of the first things I always  toggle on in games. The dialog is written but often NPC's speak outside of dialog and it's not written anywhere. I havent tried the chatbox option "show npc talk in chat" or something like that, but I assume it works only for the dialog too.

  onlinenow25

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 282

4/23/14 5:14:29 PM#46
Originally posted by LordZeik
I've seen people overcome their disabilities all the time and make do. Heck there is this one brave soul who plays league of legends without the use of his hands.(and does a better job than some of the people I've teamed with) Next time OP you may want to do a little more research before going all PC on Zenimax.  The addon system for ESO makes up for a good amount of it's shortcomings.

Its one thing to not have arms and expect to play video games, its another thing COMPLETELY to be hearing impaired and have a game not have subtitles.

 

One you physically do not have the capability to use a keyboard like someone else, and currently there is no technology we have to allow a person with two missing arms to have something function as well as our arms and hands do.

 

Second the OP has a direct way of dealing with his handy cap, that is his ability of sight and read.  While one situation is completely fucked because of his bad luck of being born/getting his arms removed from an accident, the other has a very VERY simple solution to the problem.

 

Its posts like these that... yea... really hope you don't reproduce and raise children with that mindset.

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

4/23/14 5:25:19 PM#47

why should a disabled person have to over come it, when it's a feature many " normal" people want and use in a game.

Turning off the sound and playing music instead is a pretty normal thing for gamers. It's very weird that they didn't think of this. I don't think this has to be a special feature put into the game so deaf people can play. Subtitles is something that should just be standard in any well designed game.

  CandyCaneNJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/06/09
Posts: 171

4/23/14 5:36:01 PM#48
Originally posted by DamonVile

why should a disabled person have to over come it, when it's a feature many " normal" people want and use in a game.

Turning off the sound and playing music instead is a pretty normal thing for gamers. It's very weird that they didn't think of this. I don't think this has to be a special feature put into the game so deaf people can play. Subtitles is something that should just be standard in any well designed game.

Exactly. TV's in America have mandatory closed captioning for the hearing impaired since the late 80's-early 90's. Having subtitles in PC games is just common sense

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  Thomas2006

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/05
Posts: 781

4/23/14 5:42:34 PM#49

I have to wander if it was just a oversite on there part and less about discrimination. 99% of the quests are texted and voiced. They must have just not thought about the walking sequeces or the parts that are also not texted. Doesnt make alot of sense when like I said the biggest part of the game has text and voice both.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Toom316 Streaming: Archeage NA

  dbgager

Novice Member

Joined: 12/30/07
Posts: 177

4/23/14 5:46:38 PM#50
Originally posted by onlinenow25
Originally posted by dbgager
Online....lol..Where exactly does it say in there advertisements or info on the game. " Game is hearing impaired freindly". Gross Neglicence for what. It is not harming him in any way whatsoever that he cannot play the game. That is truly dumb..Do you even understand what gross negligence means.  Nobody has stated or promised this poster that these things would be provided in the game.

If you read my post you would actually understand where the Gross Negligence comes from.

 

It comes from the person in this case OP asking for a solution to his disability, and Zenimax not providing one if they do not provide one.

 

While there may not be any laws to protect against this currently there will be, as with a whole bunch of new laws protecting both the consumer and business end of virtual property.

 

No matter what product is being using, if it is unusable by a select portion of a group of people it is discrimination.  By definition what the OP is experience is discrimination.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination

 

Here look up the definition I provided a link.  Its discrimination no matter how you slice it.  But can be easily fixed and seen as a simple oversight as long as Zenimax provides a solution to the OP's problem.

There are no laws that provide for products to be used by all people..Besides the fact that it is impossible. Should all cars have controls in them for blind or paralyzed people. How about a  telephone ..I guess they are discriminating against deaf people to..or a smoke alarm...or countless other products. And those are actually products where yu can be harmed by not being able to hear. But they are not required to make them work for deaf people. This is a game and the fact that its only an entertainment product and he is being harmed in no way whatsoever...makes it even less likely that they would take you seriously.

Gross Negligence. An indifference to, and a blatant violation of, a legal duty with respect to the rights of others. Gross negligence is a conscious and voluntary ...

 

There is no legal duty whatsoever for companys to provide products for all people...The judge would laugh you out of the courtroom. 

  kakasaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/06
Posts: 1263

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

4/23/14 6:05:46 PM#51
Originally posted by onlinenow25
Originally posted by dbgager
Online....lol..Where exactly does it say in there advertisements or info on the game. " Game is hearing impaired freindly". Gross Neglicence for what. It is not harming him in any way whatsoever that he cannot play the game. That is truly dumb..Do you even understand what gross negligence means.  Nobody has stated or promised this poster that these things would be provided in the game.

If you read my post you would actually understand where the Gross Negligence comes from.

 

It comes from the person in this case OP asking for a solution to his disability, and Zenimax not providing one if they do not provide one.

 

While there may not be any laws to protect against this currently there will be, as with a whole bunch of new laws protecting both the consumer and business end of virtual property.

 

No matter what product is being using, if it is unusable by a select portion of a group of people it is discrimination.  By definition what the OP is experience is discrimination.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination

 

Here look up the definition I provided a link.  Its discrimination no matter how you slice it.  But can be easily fixed and seen as a simple oversight as long as Zenimax provides a solution to the OP's problem.

Did I miss the part where he contacted the company and they told him no?

A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  Ehllfhire

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 590

Playing the FFXIV 2.0 Demo

4/23/14 6:05:50 PM#52
Originally posted by Crownregent

Hello.

As a born deaf person of 35 years old, I have played my share of mmos through the years.

Ultima Online was my first fully invested mmo and I was really thrilled that everything had to be written in order to be conveyed.

Then SWG came along and the same thread of info conveying was followed.

Wow started with missing speech bubbles here and there but they got fixed along the way.

Then there is Elder Scrolls Online...

Where to start? First Lydia and then the prophet... most people who is over the age of 20 cant properly hear what they say.

Then lots of the story chains where you have to follow people and they chat away you don't understand or hear what they say due to either crappy voice actors, weird accents or other issues.

Is any of this speech in writing? NO..... Not even in chat screen which would made it bearable.. but there has been times I have had to guess what the answer to questions were just because there wasn't any written proof to back up what I guessed.

Try to play the game from beginning to scratch with NO sound whatsoever... and then you maybe get what im upset about.

So in my honest opnion Eso is a discriminatory game against anyone who has a hearing impediment.

 

So Zenimax... unless u fix this shit.. u can forget me as a subscriber and probably everyone else who like to know the story in whole.

Crownregent

I doubt Zenimax cares for the .0000000000001% of their players who decide to try play a game despite being limited. They arent here to cater to you. And secondly Im 36 and can hear the convos just fine. And where do you draw the line? What if a deaf illiterate player plays? Is it still zenimax's fault? No, its natures, and nature is a cruel mistress. Be happy its the 21st century where they dont kill you at birth for being differant

Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3

  Wolfhammer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 525

Bleh!

4/24/14 7:34:32 AM#53
Originally posted by Arche_Age

Wow some of you guys are really fucking degrading.

 

The way you treat someone with a disability really shocks me.

 

OP, is having trouble with the game.

 

Zenimax didn't provide his needs. 

 

So therefore, he posted his issue.

 

I think it should be standard practice to help those who have a disability.

 

If this is how the ESO community acts towards the impaired.

 

Well than have fun with your quest grinding no endgame PVE bug ridden gold spamming pos eso copy/paste dungeon skin game. 

It's obvious you don't give a shit about the OP..  You're more interested in having a pop at the people who play a game you think is crap...    I lol'd

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2678

4/25/14 9:19:29 AM#54

Not sure if it was mentioned or not, cant be bothered to wade through all of the back and forth BS over this issue...

You know you can in fact turn on NPC chat so it shows up in your chat box to read, rather than having to hear it. Have this turned on myself as a lot of times while im hunting around for other things and NPCs are talking it gets very quiet and I miss some interesting conversation.

It's one of the chat filter settings, same way you turn on / off zone, say, guild, etc chats. Hell you can even create a brand new tab with only NPC chat enabled to make it so nothing but the stuff theyre saying shows there and it doesnt get mixed up with other players talking, gold spam, etc. (thats the way I have mine setup)

  Laughing-man

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3394

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

4/25/14 9:26:12 AM#55
Originally posted by gestalt11

If they were discriminatory then they would being these things to PURPOSELY get rid of you.

 

 

That I guess depends, do you think discrimination is defined by it's intent?

So it would then be impossible for someone to 'not' intentionally discriminate? 

I think that it is possible to discriminate without actively doing so or being aware of doing so, I see people doing that all the time.

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1852

4/25/14 9:26:16 AM#56
Originally posted by Arche_Age

Wow some of you guys are really fucking degrading.

 

The way you treat someone with a disability really shocks me.

 

OP, is having trouble with the game.

 

Zenimax didn't provide his needs. 

 

So therefore, he posted his issue.

 

I think it should be standard practice to help those who have a disability.

 

If this is how the ESO community acts towards the impaired.

 

Well than have fun with your quest grinding no endgame PVE bug ridden gold spamming pos eso copy/paste dungeon skin game. 

If you bothered to read the thread you would already know the OP was helped on the first page with how to turn on NPC chat (which is in the game and not an Add-on, so Zenimax did provide a text option).

But that doesn't support your rampant hate for ESO does it?

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1476

4/25/14 9:30:18 AM#57
Originally posted by Crownregent

Hello.

As a born deaf person of 35 years old, I have played my share of mmos through the years.

Ultima Online was my first fully invested mmo and I was really thrilled that everything had to be written in order to be conveyed.

Then SWG came along and the same thread of info conveying was followed.

Wow started with missing speech bubbles here and there but they got fixed along the way.

Then there is Elder Scrolls Online...

Where to start? First Lydia and then the prophet... most people who is over the age of 20 cant properly hear what they say.

Then lots of the story chains where you have to follow people and they chat away you don't understand or hear what they say due to either crappy voice actors, weird accents or other issues.

Is any of this speech in writing? NO..... Not even in chat screen which would made it bearable.. but there has been times I have had to guess what the answer to questions were just because there wasn't any written proof to back up what I guessed.

Try to play the game from beginning to scratch with NO sound whatsoever... and then you maybe get what im upset about.

So in my honest opnion Eso is a discriminatory game against anyone who has a hearing impediment.

 

So Zenimax... unless u fix this shit.. u can forget me as a subscriber and probably everyone else who like to know the story in whole.

Crownregent

How bout instead of whining and pouting about discrimination like a child you take the 5 seconds it takes to find the addon that adds subtitles into the game

  uidLuc1d

Novice Member

Joined: 9/06/08
Posts: 196

4/25/14 9:32:04 AM#58
Originally posted by Crownregent

Hello.

As a born deaf person of 35 years old, I have played my share of mmos through the years.

Ultima Online was my first fully invested mmo and I was really thrilled that everything had to be written in order to be conveyed.

Then SWG came along and the same thread of info conveying was followed.

Wow started with missing speech bubbles here and there but they got fixed along the way.

Then there is Elder Scrolls Online...

Where to start? First Lydia and then the prophet... most people who is over the age of 20 cant properly hear what they say.

Then lots of the story chains where you have to follow people and they chat away you don't understand or hear what they say due to either crappy voice actors, weird accents or other issues.

Is any of this speech in writing? NO..... Not even in chat screen which would made it bearable.. but there has been times I have had to guess what the answer to questions were just because there wasn't any written proof to back up what I guessed.

Try to play the game from beginning to scratch with NO sound whatsoever... and then you maybe get what im upset about.

So in my honest opnion Eso is a discriminatory game against anyone who has a hearing impediment.

 

So Zenimax... unless u fix this shit.. u can forget me as a subscriber and probably everyone else who like to know the story in whole.

Crownregent

 

*scratches head*

...are you suggesting that everyone magically loses their hearing at age 20?  Also, at 35, if you're still replacing words with letters ( you -> u ), you've gone wrong somewhere.

  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1362

We live for The One, we die for The One.

4/25/14 9:49:39 AM#59

YES! and they also discriminating against people who dont speak english, french or german!

and against people who cannt see and hear at the same time!

and against people w/o hands!

and against illiterate people!

and against people who cannt use computers!

 

they should all sue zenimax!

 

seriously, did the stupidity in society really already got that far?

  Archlyte

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/14
Posts: 338

^Avatar Stylized for Longevity, Frame Rate, & Maturity

4/25/14 5:42:21 PM#60
Originally posted by kakasaki
Originally posted by Archlyte
Originally posted by kakasaki
Originally posted by Archlyte

All MMOs should henceforth be mandated to provide Chat Bubbles because of the Americans With Disabilities Act. Some lawyers might make some money pursuing this obvious discrimination from games like SWTOR, Planetside 2, etc.

This would be a good lever to get chat bubbles into games again. File Suit!

 

Hope this is sarcasm or trolling cause if you are serious.... god help us all.

Well they force other crap on us through Government and Litigation already. Might as well use it for something I like :)

Short answer: No

 

Longer answer: As other have stated on this thread, it is not discrimination. Second: I hate chat bubbles. Why force them on me? Lastly: Are we not sick in this country of frivolous, time/tax payer money wasting litigation that only makes the lawyers richer?

You are right of course. I had a good laugh from your post though, awesome.

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