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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Heroes of the Storm: The Hearthstone of MOBAs

19 posts found
  BillMurphy

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 1702

 
OP  4/23/14 8:26:27 AM#1

If you haven’t played Heroes before but you have MOBA experience, it’s pretty easy to look at some of the things Blizzard is doing with Heroes and say they’re dumbing things down to reach an even broader audience. I’ll remind you again, the same was said for Hearthstone, and clearly there is more to that story.

Read more of Michael Bitton's Heroes of the Storm: The Hearthstone of MOBAs.

  SidQFT

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/13
Posts: 60

Playing: nothing

4/23/14 2:12:08 PM#2
i wish i could give it a try!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  Lowfer69

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 61

4/23/14 2:25:59 PM#3
Blizzard dumbing down to reach a broader audience???? No Way! /sarcasm off. Come on, this is their forte.
  MikeB

MMORPG.com Community Manager

Joined: 5/27/09
Posts: 5427

4/23/14 2:30:34 PM#4
Originally posted by Lowfer69
Blizzard dumbing down to reach a broader audience???? No Way! /sarcasm off. Come on, this is their forte.

Did you actually read the article? :)

Michael "MikeB" Bitton
Community Manager
Twitter: @eMikeB

  Solar_Prophet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/13
Posts: 625

4/23/14 2:32:41 PM#5
(Removed)

On subject, I'll probably be giving HotS a try, but unless Blizzard does what no company has done before and actually polices their community & gets rid of the asshats, I doubt I'll be playing for long.

To their credit Riot does try though, just not hard enough.

Today's message is brought to you by the U.S. Department of Education! Making our children more stupid since 1979!

  onlinenow25

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 279

4/23/14 2:35:55 PM#6

This game has taken so much out the genre of MOBA that its really hard to actually consider this as a MOBA.

 

Fundamental Mechanics are taken out of it for the sake of making it easier for newer people.  It screams casual cash grab, not casual to start years to master.  Not to mention their design philosophy on Tanks being able to take a whole teams burst and living.  It just screams they have no idea what they are doing.

 

I am not saying the game won't be fun, but to with all the casual elements they are trying to incorporate its going to just make the game that much more toxic.

 

Not to mention they have a single layer on hero progression.  You level and then you spend Talent points, which are almost exactly like skill points.

 

So for them to balance the game with one layer of character development means... They won't.  This game has no chance of having any sort of balance, and more games will be lost at hero select than DOTA and LoL combined.  It will have nothing but FOTM characters, and the cycle of nerfs and buffs are going to be the standard heavy handed Blizzard nerf/buffing.

 

If you enjoyed the game, fine but to say this is a MOBA is not even paying attention to what a MOBA actually is.  That old term that got eaten up by the term MOBA, ARTS.  Because DOTA for all purposes is exactly that.  Its a RTS yet your on a team controlling a single hero.  Its not a fighter like Street Fighter, which is what is implied by the term MOBA.

 

Second Edit:

Also your part mentioning about Nova, and having hero's being free to do what they want is only around currently because the game is new.  

Not to mention the entire point of specific characters in DOTA are to fill a role on your team.  If you only have experience in LoL I can see why you made the comment you did, but you clearly haven't played enough DOTA to make the claim that HotS is the only 'MOBA' to allow freedom of roles because DOTA does just that and has done it for years.

 

Supports in DOTA are usually the gankers, and the heroes that set up kills.  Yet they can also be the lane pushes, lane defenders (KotL).  The actual most tedious role in DOTA is the Carry.  So lets also remove this misconception of what support heroes do in MOBAs.

 

You also have to consider which seems to be hard for many people new to "MOBAs" is that your picking a specific hero is also you picking a role.  It does not mean that Role does one thing only, but it does mean you are meant to stick to that role similar to how you if you pick a Tank in most MMO's you stick to Tanking.

 

This WILL NOT change for HotS.  Yes I used caps to emphasis this because this seems like a lost concept in your article.  Every hero WILL have a SPECIFIC ROLE to fill, and it will NEVER go away.  Because that is the nature of team/role based game play.

 

Your whole article screams that you have only played LoL. 

 

Your article lacks any perspective from DOTA.

 

So it makes sense you say the things you do because you played THE most restricting MOBA out there, LoL.

  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 936

4/23/14 2:42:05 PM#7
Originally posted by MikeB
Originally posted by Lowfer69
Blizzard dumbing down to reach a broader audience???? No Way! /sarcasm off. Come on, this is their forte.

Did you actually read the article? :)

Whaaaaaaat? There was an article? /sarcasm off!

Crazkanuk

----------------
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Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
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Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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  ThomasN7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6654

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

4/23/14 3:12:09 PM#8
Having my doubts because Hearthstone is nothing more than pay to win and if Heroes of the Storm goes the route of f2p it will wind up yet another pay to win scenario. Disappointing if that happens.
  Sephastus

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/15/09
Posts: 408

4/23/14 3:20:41 PM#9
Make a good game, and the cash will flow on its own. Battle arenas are for short burst gaming... same as their prior version of a card game (hearthstone - pre-solo play). If it is "Free", it is too expensive to play successfully, since those that can plunk down more money will be able to out-do those that do not. If what Mr. Murphy is trying to say is that what Blizzard is doing is another version of a cash grab, then yes... I agree. Not that this is bad, mind you, because each person is just interested in getting some enjoyment out of their investment, and if the way they get enjoyment is through MOBA play, then this is certainly something they should look into, since it does look to be player friendly, although its longevity is still something see.
  Spellshaper

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/04
Posts: 392

4/23/14 4:49:32 PM#10
Ok, so HotS is "RNG with some simple mechanics to make it a game" of MOBAs? I hoped for better :(

_____________________________
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  sayuu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 108

4/23/14 4:49:40 PM#11

 

 

Hearthstone is sucessful because it's rule set/mechanics are shallow, and thus easier to grasp for most people.

Hearthstone has a competitive scene? The same few Fotm decks in constructed tounaments/ high ranked play for months at a time, until Blizzard nerfs some cards and we get  4-6 new cookie cutter decks. 

2 factors cause this: 1) a small card pool 2) simplistic rules and mechanics

both which Hearthstone currently has, thought in time the 1st point can be negated possibly.

Lastly,  just because something is competetive and/or successful does not necessarly make it complex, which you imply in the article in regards to Heartstone.

 

Heroes Of The Storm IS fun. . .

 

But it is not complex.

 

 

So yes, it is indeed a "Dumbed Down" Moba.

 

But you know what?

 

I 'm fine with that. . .

 
  Talmien

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 75

4/23/14 5:52:04 PM#12

I think Blizzard is basically trying to make a game that's appealing to Bronze and Silver level players in League of Legends, maybe a few gold. Which isn't a bad idea considering those levels are like 80% of leagues player base.

 

I'm a silver player, and really I don't care for all the deep strategy and tactics that are needed for the higher level play in League. I just want to go in with the hero I like best, fight some enemies and generally have a good time. I hate last hitting minions, and never do it very well, so I usually stay support where I don't have too. It sounds like Heroes will have new and interesting team mechanics that League doesn't. Looking forward to it.

 

Overall sounds like Blizzard is doing what Blizzard does best, taking a concept from a game already out there, molding it into something appealing to a larger audience and giving it that excellent Blizzard polish. I see it being a success, but serious League players will likely spite it because the skill gap will be smaller.

 
  oreostix

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/22/11
Posts: 11

4/23/14 6:09:39 PM#13
Oh my god the game doesn't have items! And they're calling it a MOBA?! OH MY GOD BLIZZARD SUCKS /s
  goozmania

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/18/07
Posts: 118

4/23/14 11:14:29 PM#14
How do you dumb down a "MOBA?" It is the most ridiculously simplistic and 1 dimensional genre there is... The whole genre is a single custom WC3 map.
  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2673

4/24/14 4:02:42 AM#15
Can't be worse than LoL now can it? LoL dumbed down the genre why not dumb it down further?

And I wouldn't witty about the community of this game. All Dota style games have toxic communities.

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  Tsumoro

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/30/12
Posts: 309

4/24/14 6:41:25 AM#16
Originally posted by sayuu

 

 

Hearthstone is sucessful because it's rule set/mechanics are shallow, and thus easier to grasp for most people.

Hearthstone has a competitive scene? The same few Fotm decks in constructed tounaments/ high ranked play for months at a time, until Blizzard nerfs some cards and we get  4-6 new cookie cutter decks. 

2 factors cause this: 1) a small card pool 2) simplistic rules and mechanics

both which Hearthstone currently has, thought in time the 1st point can be negated possibly.

Lastly,  just because something is competetive and/or successful does not necessarly make it complex, which you imply in the article in regards to Heartstone.

 

Heroes Of The Storm IS fun. . .

 

But it is not complex.

 

 

So yes, it is indeed a "Dumbed Down" Moba.

 

But you know what?

 

I 'm fine with that. . .

 

I agree with you, because a game is competitive or successful it really doesn't make it complex. But, that's fine really as long as the game is fun to play. People will compete over anything, even with single player games so this applies doubly so with an online game. 

The problem I have with MOBA's is that you HAVE to play a certain way, in some you have to minion kill (or you a cussed out) in some you have to jungle (or cussed out) and they are very rigid. 

So hopefully, a more relaxed approach on the reigns will reel in more horses into the MOBA genre and isn't that what every developer wants? More people playing their game and isn't that what every  gamer wants, to play a fun game. 

We shall see 'how' this all pans out in time.

  gakule

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/07
Posts: 92

4/24/14 3:58:48 PM#17

I am loving the game myself. I love(d) playing League of Legends, but it has lost its allure. With the ultra competitive "you have to build x and do y and do z every single game" just gets a bit boring and tedious for someone who doesn't have a lot of time to game anymore. With HotS, you have a bit more varied gameplay even with the basic "lanes" concept still intact. 

Is it casual? Yes. Can it still be competitive? Absolutely. It seems insanely balanced and I have yet to find a build that is completely ineffective from a talent standpoint. I like the talent system much more than having to buy items. I can spend an entire game NEVER going back to base and still keep up with everyone else. It's great.

Another thing I really enjoy is playing as characters I am familiar with. I am very happy that they mashed all of their IP's together to form one brawler. 

Edit: The fact that you can try heroes before you buy them is also wonderful!
  onlinenow25

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 279

4/25/14 2:04:35 AM#18

There are at least 2 other replies about the rigidness of MOBAs.

 

Did no one read my post?

Riot has Chosen to make their game that Rigid

They balance LoL based on the standard lane compositions and nerf anything that disrupts it

 

The reason why Currently there are no lane compositions in HotS is because its new.  Once its given to the masses you WILL get lane compositions.  Its a Role Based game, as such there are going to be superior set ups, and its impossible for Blizzard to try and counter this.  

 

The biggest problem that will perpetuate this is that the game has a single layer of character development. 

 

Unlike DOTA where you can create her compositions(pushing) that counter other hero compositions(3 lane aggressive) there will be NOTHING to mitigate this.  Because all heroes are one dimensional.

 

I would love to explain more in detail but I have to go back to studying.  Read my previous post, it explains some of this pretty well.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6674

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

4/26/14 9:18:46 PM#19

If Moba's were the last of gaming i would not be gaming as i can't stand them.

They are simply put too cheap,ugly meaningless environments, twitchy but spammy controls.

This game would have to entirely change the genre's copy cat design that EVERYONE is doing to get me to even think about it and from watching the video,it looks 100% identical to all the rest.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond