Trending Games | ArcheAge | World of Warcraft | Elder Scrolls Online | Guild Wars 2

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,856,736 Users Online:0
Games:740  Posts:6,241,743
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » "MMO" or "MMORPG"?

4 Pages « 1 2 3 4 » Search
68 posts found
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  4/20/14 1:54:48 PM#41
Originally posted by iixviiiix
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by iixviiiix

Originally posted by maji



It not more than 100 people play in same "game"  ( i don't think we right to use "world")

 

The term "massive" mean large number with no certain number (no limit)

Even if there are only 2 players , a game can be called MMO (massive multiplayer online) game as long as it don't limit the number of players possible join the game.

If a game put limit how many players can join in one "game" then it is multiplayers game .

Even if COD limit 110 player per "game" , it still a multiplayer game because it put a limit number how many player possible join in one "game"

I don't think i need to dig more that this , because people here don't ready care what term mean.

But be careful , there will be time when you scream wolf and people though you are liar.



Every online game I have played has a "limit" on the number of players. Some may be as high as 5000, some may be as low as 100. With computers, you can only have a set number, due to technical limitations, usually in multiples of 256 (256/512/1024/etc). There is no online game that offers unlimited players.

 

Can you tell me the "limit" number of player in design of UO ? (i use UO because it the first called MMO game)

Most case are limit by server , not the game itself , because of that there are time server down because large number of player enter in same time .

Latter they put safe lock to stop player enter when the sever are full , but at the start when the MMO first called , there are no real number put on.

 

Or the first one who call those game MMO don't know the limit number lol . I think it may be the case

 

 

UO was the game for which the term "MMORPG" was coined.  "MMO" came later.  The usage also seems to have moved from the specific "this MMORPG" to the general "MMOs".

 

**

 

One thing I've noticed is that other than MMORPG being used to describe Ultima Online, every other use of MMORPG or MMO has come without precedent or any particular reason except on the part of the person using the term.  Way back in 1997, if the terms were used, it's entirely possible that they were used different ways by different people and each person would have no idea that there were many meanings for the term(s).

 

The evolution of language has a lot more in common with Darwin's theories than with some sort of human controlled process.  It's a collaborative and competitive effort where the end result is usually just the beginning of a new evolution of whatever terms are still being used.  With language, whatever is accepted as "true", is true.  With that in mind, it is not possible for the terms "MMO" or "MMORPG" to be used incorrectly unless the person reading or hearing the terms doesn't understand what the person saying or writing the terms is talking about. 

 

**

 

Language changes because it must change in order to work.  We change langauge, and language changes us.  If this weren't true, we would be unable to communicate with each other.  A word we've heard, but did not understand would be forever defined as "I don't know what this means", and would the definition would never change.  A word we understood, but understood incorrectly would never be corrected and would always be different from what the majority of the people understood the word to mean.  Language changes and because the alternative state, where changing what a word means in our minds and in our cultures is an impossible state of existence.

 

If "MMO" did mean something specific, even though it's never been defined, there is nothing preventing the definition from changing over time to mean something else.  It would be strange if the meaning did not get adjusted based on new information and new uses of the term.

 

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3191

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

4/21/14 11:00:41 AM#42


Originally posted by Sukiyaki
This entire thread is like argueing whether the label "car" or "racing car " is the same or not, because some people call their verhicle a car and other call it a racing car and some dorks started to call their bike a racing car. Or some who consider their vehicle a racing car still call it a car because its shorter. Just because the label is shortened to an acronym in our case, doesnt mean it has no particular meaning. None of that changes the meaning of either of these labels or requires us to reconsider the definition. This doesn't really deserve the question or discussion.

These labels MMO are entirely pragmatic and selfexplaining for the simple practical purpose of describing, categorizing or generalizing over what type of game you refer to based on some common characteristics or qualities. The fact they might overlap and in some cases refer to the same thing, or ignorant people mislabel things, doesn't mean we can throw all the consensus and objectivity over board and name anything like we want because of "feelings".



Exactly. Labels help funnel things.

Take a person looking for a game to play. They post, "I want to play a game."
Now, responses need to figure what "kind" of game they are seeking.
- Boardgame? Video game? Card Game? Dice Game? Party Game?

Video game. OK.

- Single Player? Multiplayer? Massively Mulitplayer?

Massively Multiplayer. OK.

- Now, do they want an FPS type game? Maybe an ARPG? Maybe they're seeking an RPG?

Now we see how "labels/genres" factor in. If one person says Diablo III or Legue of Legends is an MMO (or even MMORPG), those games will not fit for what the first poster who asked is looking for.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Ouriel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/25/10
Posts: 72

4/21/14 11:31:06 AM#43


Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Sukiyaki This entire thread is like argueing whether the label "car" or "racing car " is the same or not, because some people call their verhicle a car and other call it a racing car and some dorks started to call their bike a racing car. Or some who consider their vehicle a racing car still call it a car because its shorter. Just because the label is shortened to an acronym in our case, doesnt mean it has no particular meaning. None of that changes the meaning of either of these labels or requires us to reconsider the definition. This doesn't really deserve the question or discussion. These labels MMO are entirely pragmatic and selfexplaining for the simple practical purpose of describing, categorizing or generalizing over what type of game you refer to based on some common characteristics or qualities. The fact they might overlap and in some cases refer to the same thing, or ignorant people mislabel things, doesn't mean we can throw all the consensus and objectivity over board and name anything like we want because of "feelings".
They are not objective terms nor self-explanatory. The word "massive" is already relative and subjective. Who decides what is massive and what is not? What constitutes a multiplayer scenario? Is messaging enough? How many and which kind of online elements should a game have to be considered an online game? What if it is only partially online? What if some parts can be accessed offline?

Why this discussion might frustrate someone is because they have many implicit expectations with the term which do not match someone else's implicit expectations. The acronym does a poor job of describing a game/genre explicitly. It is anything but pragmatic or self-explanatory.


They are objective meanings, not subjective. You cannot say that LoL or DotA are MMO because they do not allow a lot of players to be played in one single match, for example, 200 vs 200, which means, that those two games are not MMOs, but rather Action Real Time Strategy or, as Riot says, Multiplayer Online Battle Arena.

This leads us to the next point, Counter Strike, CoD or BF are not MMOFPS, hell, they are not even labelled as Online shooters, except for CS, which is an Online Shooter.

So, yeah, they are objective and not subjective, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

  Swids2010

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 209

4/21/14 11:36:09 AM#44


Diablo 3 you can only play with 3 or 4 other players cant you been a while but i didn't think it was more than that yes that is Multiplayer but i wouldn't call it massive same with call of duty 8vs 8 is not massive the term MMO is used to liberally by game developers at the moment a hand full of players playing together does not make it massive.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  4/21/14 11:47:29 AM#45
Originally posted by Ouriel

 


Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Sukiyaki This entire thread is like argueing whether the label "car" or "racing car " is the same or not, because some people call their verhicle a car and other call it a racing car and some dorks started to call their bike a racing car. Or some who consider their vehicle a racing car still call it a car because its shorter. Just because the label is shortened to an acronym in our case, doesnt mean it has no particular meaning. None of that changes the meaning of either of these labels or requires us to reconsider the definition. This doesn't really deserve the question or discussion. These labels MMO are entirely pragmatic and selfexplaining for the simple practical purpose of describing, categorizing or generalizing over what type of game you refer to based on some common characteristics or qualities. The fact they might overlap and in some cases refer to the same thing, or ignorant people mislabel things, doesn't mean we can throw all the consensus and objectivity over board and name anything like we want because of "feelings".
They are not objective terms nor self-explanatory. The word "massive" is already relative and subjective. Who decides what is massive and what is not? What constitutes a multiplayer scenario? Is messaging enough? How many and which kind of online elements should a game have to be considered an online game? What if it is only partially online? What if some parts can be accessed offline?

 

Why this discussion might frustrate someone is because they have many implicit expectations with the term which do not match someone else's implicit expectations. The acronym does a poor job of describing a game/genre explicitly. It is anything but pragmatic or self-explanatory.


 

They are objective meanings, not subjective. You cannot say that LoL or DotA are MMO because they do not allow a lot of players to be played in one single match, for example, 200 vs 200, which means, that those two games are not MMOs, but rather Action Real Time Strategy or, as Riot says, Multiplayer Online Battle Arena.

This leads us to the next point, Counter Strike, CoD or BF are not MMOFPS, hell, they are not even labelled as Online shooters, except for CS, which is an Online Shooter.

So, yeah, they are objective and not subjective, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

 

"Objective" would mean that personal preferences or thoughts don't enter into the discussion of what something means.  "Blue" means a specific range of wavelengths of light.  It's objective and doesn't depend on what I think "blue" means or how I think blue looks.

 

"MMO", on the other hand, doesn't have an objective definition.  If the definition you are using isn't written down someplace and agreed upon as the definition for the term, then it's not objective.  That's why we get so many people trying to prove that a point is wrong because a game "isn't an MMO", based on a definition that nobody agrees on.

 

We could say that anyone who looks at an undefined term as objective is a fool and will have many foolish arguments about what the terms mean.

 

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  4/21/14 11:54:55 AM#46
Originally posted by Swids2010


Diablo 3 you can only play with 3 or 4 other players cant you been a while but i didn't think it was more than that yes that is Multiplayer but i wouldn't call it massive same with call of duty 8vs 8 is not massive the term MMO is used to liberally by game developers at the moment a hand full of players playing together does not make it massive.

 

A "massive" number of people are interacting with each other in the lobby, and a "massive" number of people were interacting through the auction house.  Both inside and outside of the game players are trading items on a massive level now that there's no auction house.

 

Is the "massive" aspect of "MMO" only valid if it includes potentially seeing a "massive" number of players inside a game's world?

 

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  ikcin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/13
Posts: 383

4/21/14 12:11:22 PM#47
Originally posted by lizardbones
A "massive" number of people are interacting with each other in the lobby, and a "massive" number of people were interacting through the auction house.  Both inside and outside of the game players are trading items on a massive level now that there's no auction house.
Is the "massive" aspect of "MMO" only valid if it includes potentially seeing a "massive" number of players inside a game's world?

No, they don't interact, they talk, but they can use Skype, phone, or any other software or hardware to talk, while they play. D3 is not a talking game, if it was you can call talking in a lobby ingame interaction. But it is not. Players shall interact using game mechanics. Which means D3 is a MMO in very limited trading point, and it became such a MMO, after removing of auction house. And yes "massive" aspect is valid only inside the game world, which means it is hard to label any game with broken world a MMO.

  Ouriel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/25/10
Posts: 72

4/21/14 1:02:41 PM#48


Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by Ouriel  

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Sukiyaki This entire thread is like argueing whether the label "car" or "racing car " is the same or not, because some people call their verhicle a car and other call it a racing car and some dorks started to call their bike a racing car. Or some who consider their vehicle a racing car still call it a car because its shorter. Just because the label is shortened to an acronym in our case, doesnt mean it has no particular meaning. None of that changes the meaning of either of these labels or requires us to reconsider the definition. This doesn't really deserve the question or discussion. These labels MMO are entirely pragmatic and selfexplaining for the simple practical purpose of describing, categorizing or generalizing over what type of game you refer to based on some common characteristics or qualities. The fact they might overlap and in some cases refer to the same thing, or ignorant people mislabel things, doesn't mean we can throw all the consensus and objectivity over board and name anything like we want because of "feelings".
They are not objective terms nor self-explanatory. The word "massive" is already relative and subjective. Who decides what is massive and what is not? What constitutes a multiplayer scenario? Is messaging enough? How many and which kind of online elements should a game have to be considered an online game? What if it is only partially online? What if some parts can be accessed offline?   Why this discussion might frustrate someone is because they have many implicit expectations with the term which do not match someone else's implicit expectations. The acronym does a poor job of describing a game/genre explicitly. It is anything but pragmatic or self-explanatory.
  They are objective meanings, not subjective. You cannot say that LoL or DotA are MMO because they do not allow a lot of players to be played in one single match, for example, 200 vs 200, which means, that those two games are not MMOs, but rather Action Real Time Strategy or, as Riot says, Multiplayer Online Battle Arena. This leads us to the next point, Counter Strike, CoD or BF are not MMOFPS, hell, they are not even labelled as Online shooters, except for CS, which is an Online Shooter. So, yeah, they are objective and not subjective, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
 

"Objective" would mean that personal preferences or thoughts don't enter into the discussion of what something means.  "Blue" means a specific range of wavelengths of light.  It's objective and doesn't depend on what I think "blue" means or how I think blue looks.

 

"MMO", on the other hand, doesn't have an objective definition.  If the definition you are using isn't written down someplace and agreed upon as the definition for the term, then it's not objective.  That's why we get so many people trying to prove that a point is wrong because a game "isn't an MMO", based on a definition that nobody agrees on.

 

We could say that anyone who looks at an undefined term as objective is a fool and will have many foolish arguments about what the terms mean.

 


An MMO is an MMO, D3 can't be an MMO; WoW is an MMO, EVE is an MMO, EQ is an MMO, Planetside1/2 MMO;
CS is an Online Shooter, CF is an Online Shooter;
LoL is an MOBA, DotA1/2 ARTS;

The list can go on, but the term will stay absolute for a given game, other can just label that they are MMOs all they want, but the term MMO is definite and it is what it is.
I stand by what I said in my previous post.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  4/21/14 1:18:49 PM#49
Originally posted by Ouriel

 


Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by Ouriel  

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Sukiyaki This entire thread is like argueing whether the label "car" or "racing car " is the same or not, because some people call their verhicle a car and other call it a racing car and some dorks started to call their bike a racing car. Or some who consider their vehicle a racing car still call it a car because its shorter. Just because the label is shortened to an acronym in our case, doesnt mean it has no particular meaning. None of that changes the meaning of either of these labels or requires us to reconsider the definition. This doesn't really deserve the question or discussion. These labels MMO are entirely pragmatic and selfexplaining for the simple practical purpose of describing, categorizing or generalizing over what type of game you refer to based on some common characteristics or qualities. The fact they might overlap and in some cases refer to the same thing, or ignorant people mislabel things, doesn't mean we can throw all the consensus and objectivity over board and name anything like we want because of "feelings".
They are not objective terms nor self-explanatory. The word "massive" is already relative and subjective. Who decides what is massive and what is not? What constitutes a multiplayer scenario? Is messaging enough? How many and which kind of online elements should a game have to be considered an online game? What if it is only partially online? What if some parts can be accessed offline?   Why this discussion might frustrate someone is because they have many implicit expectations with the term which do not match someone else's implicit expectations. The acronym does a poor job of describing a game/genre explicitly. It is anything but pragmatic or self-explanatory.
  They are objective meanings, not subjective. You cannot say that LoL or DotA are MMO because they do not allow a lot of players to be played in one single match, for example, 200 vs 200, which means, that those two games are not MMOs, but rather Action Real Time Strategy or, as Riot says, Multiplayer Online Battle Arena. This leads us to the next point, Counter Strike, CoD or BF are not MMOFPS, hell, they are not even labelled as Online shooters, except for CS, which is an Online Shooter. So, yeah, they are objective and not subjective, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
 

 

"Objective" would mean that personal preferences or thoughts don't enter into the discussion of what something means.  "Blue" means a specific range of wavelengths of light.  It's objective and doesn't depend on what I think "blue" means or how I think blue looks.

 

"MMO", on the other hand, doesn't have an objective definition.  If the definition you are using isn't written down someplace and agreed upon as the definition for the term, then it's not objective.  That's why we get so many people trying to prove that a point is wrong because a game "isn't an MMO", based on a definition that nobody agrees on.

 

We could say that anyone who looks at an undefined term as objective is a fool and will have many foolish arguments about what the terms mean.

 


 

An MMO is an MMO, D3 can't be an MMO; WoW is an MMO, EVE is an MMO, EQ is an MMO, Planetside1/2 MMO;
CS is an Online Shooter, CF is an Online Shooter;
LoL is an MOBA, DotA1/2 ARTS;

The list can go on, but the term will stay absolute for a given game, other can just label that they are MMOs all they want, but the term MMO is definite and it is what it is.
I stand by what I said in my previous post.

 

Except it's not absolute.  You're just listing what you think "MMO" means*.  If it were an absolute term, there would be no discussion on what is or is not an MMO.  "The Industry" wouldn't bother applying the label to things it could not apply to.  The definition for the term has never settled.

 

The term you're thinking of "MMORPG".  That actually has a definition, and a real world example upon which it's based.  Richard Garriott coined the term "MMORPG" to describe Ultima Online.  "MMO" has been slang ever since, and applied unevenly, even wildly.

 

**

 

* There's nothing wrong with this, but expecting everyone to get behind what you're saying depends on everyone agreeing with what you are saying.

 

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Adamantine

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3321

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

4/22/14 2:57:45 AM#50

MMO = Massive Multiplayer Online = A game in which you play with hundreds, if not thousands of players at the same time on the same server

RPG = Role Playing Game = A game in which your character strength doesnt depend upon your motoric skills, but on certain values (skills, feats, attributes, whatever) of your character, giving you the ability to play a young hero despite the fact you're actually a 90 year old grandpa.

MMORPG = a game that is both a MMO and a RPG.

  crack_fox

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 398

4/22/14 4:06:07 AM#51
Originally posted by lizardbones

What about you?  If someone is discussing the revenue of games, and uses the term "MMO" to refer to World of Tanks or Diablo III, do you correct them? 

lf someone is discussing the revenue of games and that person isn't Jim Sterling, then I rarely pay much attention. I'm a player not an investor and I'm bored of trolls. And who really cares whether a game fits into some narrow definition of what a MMO or MMORPG should be? The really interesting games are often the ones that don't fit neatly into any single category.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3191

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

4/22/14 5:03:41 AM#52


Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by Swids2010
Diablo 3 you can only play with 3 or 4 other players cant you been a while but i didn't think it was more than that yes that is Multiplayer but i wouldn't call it massive same with call of duty 8vs 8 is not massive the term MMO is used to liberally by game developers at the moment a hand full of players playing together does not make it massive.
 
A "massive" number of people are interacting with each other in the lobby, and a "massive" number of people were interacting through the auction house.  Both inside and outside of the game players are trading items on a massive level now that there's no auction house.

Is the "massive" aspect of "MMO" only valid if it includes potentially seeing a "massive" number of players inside a game's world?



While I don't think there is any dispute about the number of players in the lobby or auction house, are those what League of Legends, (and similar games), are all about?

I am sure some players log in simply to chat in the lobby or buy/sell in the auction house, but really, is that what this game is all about? Can you sell in the auction house without playing in matches? (Where does the gear come from?)

I thought the matches was where the game was played. Matches are very limited in the players allowed in. Very limited. Maybe I'm mistaken?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  4/22/14 5:21:31 AM#53
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by Swids2010
Diablo 3 you can only play with 3 or 4 other players cant you been a while but i didn't think it was more than that yes that is Multiplayer but i wouldn't call it massive same with call of duty 8vs 8 is not massive the term MMO is used to liberally by game developers at the moment a hand full of players playing together does not make it massive.

 
A "massive" number of people are interacting with each other in the lobby, and a "massive" number of people were interacting through the auction house.  Both inside and outside of the game players are trading items on a massive level now that there's no auction house.

 

Is the "massive" aspect of "MMO" only valid if it includes potentially seeing a "massive" number of players inside a game's world?



While I don't think there is any dispute about the number of players in the lobby or auction house, are those what League of Legends, (and similar games), are all about?

 

I am sure some players log in simply to chat in the lobby or buy/sell in the auction house, but really, is that what this game is all about? Can you sell in the auction house without playing in matches? (Where does the gear come from?)

I thought the matches was where the game was played. Matches are very limited in the players allowed in. Very limited. Maybe I'm mistaken?

 

Yes, each of the "matches" is the main point of the game, and in each match, players are interacting with a limited number of people.  The limit ranges from 4 people total to what, a hundred or so, maybe two hundred?  The number of people in each match is not "massive".  Not in my opinion.  Though, in WoW, I'm not sure I was on screen with a massive number of people at any given time either.  If I walked far enough away from a group of players or mobs, I could still see the landscape, but not the players or mobs.   

 

In games like World of Tanks, players aren't interacting with the same people over and over.  They are interacting with new people during each "match".  In an MMORPG, I'm not interacting with a thousand people all at once, I'm interacting with a few people at a time.  The difference appears to be that in one, I'm traveling through a world, and in the other I'm not traveling but "teleporting" to zones where the players are.  I can still interact with as many people, all logged into the same server I'm logged into, the difference is the method I use to get to where the people are.

 

Either "MMO" and "MMORPG" are the same thing, in which case games like WoT or D3 cannot be MMOs because they do not have a persistent and shared world, or "MMO" doesn't mean what "MMORPG" means, in which case WoT and D3 can be an MMO.  Having a persistent, shared world is a requirement of MMORPGs, but unless MMO=MMORPG, having a persistent, shared world isn't necessarily a requirement of MMOs.  There doesn't appear to be a third option on the table.

 

**

 

It should be noted that regardless of the results of the poll, there does not seem to be a consensus on what "MMO" or "MMOG" means.  Searching the internet, some games, like World of Tanks are listed as MMOgs, while others, like Diablo 3 are not.  There doesn't seem to be a lot of different between WoT and D3 in terms of how players get from match to match so it's hard to say what distinctions are being made between the games.  It seems to come down to a subjective opinion.  So everyone try to keep that in mind.  While we're discussing this, there is no objective evidence "in the world" to really backup what we're discussing.

 

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5540

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

4/22/14 8:09:04 AM#54
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

It should be noted that regardless of the results of the poll, there does not seem to be a consensus on what "MMO" or "MMOG" means.  Searching the internet, some games, like World of Tanks are listed as MMOgs, while others, like Diablo 3 are not.  There doesn't seem to be a lot of different between WoT and D3 in terms of how players get from match to match so it's hard to say what distinctions are being made between the games.  It seems to come down to a subjective opinion.  So everyone try to keep that in mind.  While we're discussing this, there is no objective evidence "in the world" to really backup what we're discussing.

I suspect the people to whom you are directing this message are very unlikely to internalize it.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19773

4/22/14 11:09:55 AM#55
Originally posted by AlBQuirky



While I don't think there is any dispute about the number of players in the lobby or auction house, are those what League of Legends, (and similar games), are all about?

 

I am sure some players log in simply to chat in the lobby or buy/sell in the auction house, but really, is that what this game is all about? Can you sell in the auction house without playing in matches? (Where does the gear come from?)

I thought the matches was where the game was played. Matches are very limited in the players allowed in. Very limited. Maybe I'm mistaken?

What games are "about" is up to the individual player.

So what if the core gameplay is limited. Most players queue for small instances in WoW too ... is WoW "massive" for them?

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3191

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

4/22/14 6:51:42 PM#56


Originally posted by lizardbones
Yes, each of the "matches" is the main point of the game, and in each match, players are interacting with a limited number of people.  The limit ranges from 4 people total to what, a hundred or so, maybe two hundred?  The number of people in each match is not "massive".  Not in my opinion.  Though, in WoW, I'm not sure I was on screen with a massive number of people at any given time either.  If I walked far enough away from a group of players or mobs, I could still see the landscape, but not the players or mobs.

I had no idea LoL and such had matches with so many different players (100-200?). But the gist is what I underlined in your post, "In my opinion." Unfortunately, everyone has their own opinion on what constitutes "massive." As for WoW, I experienced a "massive" gathering of players when Cata released. Many players gathered to get their new, faster mounts in Stormwind.


Originally posted by lizardbones
In games like World of Tanks, players aren't interacting with the same people over and over.  They are interacting with new people during each "match".  In an MMORPG, I'm not interacting with a thousand people all at once, I'm interacting with a few people at a time.  The difference appears to be that in one, I'm traveling through a world, and in the other I'm not traveling but "teleporting" to zones where the players are.  I can still interact with as many people, all logged into the same server I'm logged into, the difference is the method I use to get to where the people are.

Same here. I guess the difference boils down to "opportunity." While in a group, I am interacting with 2-8 players. While soloing, I have the "opportunity" to interact with anyone else I come across. I may have chat boxes (world chat, local chat, guild chat, maybe a "/tell" conversation going on) open where I can interact lots, or a few, but that is similar to the lobbies in the other examples of games. I am not engaging in "the game" through chat channels :)


Originally posted by lizardbones
Either "MMO" and "MMORPG" are the same thing, in which case games like WoT or D3 cannot be MMOs because they do not have a persistent and shared world, or "MMO" doesn't mean what "MMORPG" means, in which case WoT and D3 can be an MMO.  Having a persistent, shared world is a requirement of MMORPGs, but unless MMO=MMORPG, having a persistent, shared world isn't necessarily a requirement of MMOs.  There doesn't appear to be a third option on the table.

Why? Why is it either/or?  Why do you think they have to be the same thing? MMORPGs ARE MMOs, but the reverse is not always true. MMORPG is a "sub-set" of MMO, just like MMOFPS, MMORTS, MMOARPG, and the rest of MMO sub-sets. What all of these genres have in common is, "MMO."


Originally posted by lizardbones
It should be noted that regardless of the results of the poll, there does not seem to be a consensus on what "MMO" or "MMOG" means.  Searching the internet, some games, like World of Tanks are listed as MMOgs, while others, like Diablo 3 are not.  There doesn't seem to be a lot of different between WoT and D3 in terms of how players get from match to match so it's hard to say what distinctions are being made between the games.  It seems to come down to a subjective opinion.  So everyone try to keep that in mind.  While we're discussing this, there is no objective evidence "in the world" to really backup what we're discussing.

MMO is the same thing as an MMOG. The "G" is inferred in "MMO." Otherwise, we would be talking about MMO Chat Room, MMO e-mail service, or MMO Video Sharing. "Multi-player" kind of assumes we are speaking about games, don't you agree?

MMORPGs used to infer "persistent worlds." Because other people (and games) wanted in on the phenomena, they decided to jump on the bandwagon. Why? I have no idea :) MMORPGs and MMO(G)s are NOT that great of sellers, as a genre. What they do, other than massively multi-player, can be done so much better in single player games of the same sub-genre.

I often wonder why people even want to classify games that do not fit MMORPG generally accepted definition (or even MMO), as such. What is the point?

When all is said and done, people looking for MMORPGs, or even just MMOs, will not appreciate being directed to a game that does not have the features that these 2 "labels" indicate. Why even try?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

 
OP  4/22/14 8:01:27 PM#57
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by lizardbones
Yes, each of the "matches" is the main point of the game, and in each match, players are interacting with a limited number of people.  The limit ranges from 4 people total to what, a hundred or so, maybe two hundred?  The number of people in each match is not "massive".  Not in my opinion.  Though, in WoW, I'm not sure I was on screen with a massive number of people at any given time either.  If I walked far enough away from a group of players or mobs, I could still see the landscape, but not the players or mobs.


I had no idea LoL and such had matches with so many different players (100-200?). But the gist is what I underlined in your post, "In my opinion." Unfortunately, everyone has their own opinion on what constitutes "massive." As for WoW, I experienced a "massive" gathering of players when Cata released. Many players gathered to get their new, faster mounts in Stormwind.

 

 


Originally posted by lizardbones
In games like World of Tanks, players aren't interacting with the same people over and over.  They are interacting with new people during each "match".  In an MMORPG, I'm not interacting with a thousand people all at once, I'm interacting with a few people at a time.  The difference appears to be that in one, I'm traveling through a world, and in the other I'm not traveling but "teleporting" to zones where the players are.  I can still interact with as many people, all logged into the same server I'm logged into, the difference is the method I use to get to where the people are.


Same here. I guess the difference boils down to "opportunity." While in a group, I am interacting with 2-8 players. While soloing, I have the "opportunity" to interact with anyone else I come across. I may have chat boxes (world chat, local chat, guild chat, maybe a "/tell" conversation going on) open where I can interact lots, or a few, but that is similar to the lobbies in the other examples of games. I am not engaging in "the game" through chat channels :)

 

 


Originally posted by lizardbones
Either "MMO" and "MMORPG" are the same thing, in which case games like WoT or D3 cannot be MMOs because they do not have a persistent and shared world, or "MMO" doesn't mean what "MMORPG" means, in which case WoT and D3 can be an MMO.  Having a persistent, shared world is a requirement of MMORPGs, but unless MMO=MMORPG, having a persistent, shared world isn't necessarily a requirement of MMOs.  There doesn't appear to be a third option on the table.


Why? Why is it either/or?  Why do you think they have to be the same thing? MMORPGs ARE MMOs, but the reverse is not always true. MMORPG is a "sub-set" of MMO, just like MMOFPS, MMORTS, MMOARPG, and the rest of MMO sub-sets. What all of these genres have in common is, "MMO."

 

 


Originally posted by lizardbones
It should be noted that regardless of the results of the poll, there does not seem to be a consensus on what "MMO" or "MMOG" means.  Searching the internet, some games, like World of Tanks are listed as MMOgs, while others, like Diablo 3 are not.  There doesn't seem to be a lot of different between WoT and D3 in terms of how players get from match to match so it's hard to say what distinctions are being made between the games.  It seems to come down to a subjective opinion.  So everyone try to keep that in mind.  While we're discussing this, there is no objective evidence "in the world" to really backup what we're discussing.


MMO is the same thing as an MMOG. The "G" is inferred in "MMO." Otherwise, we would be talking about MMO Chat Room, MMO e-mail service, or MMO Video Sharing. "Multi-player" kind of assumes we are speaking about games, don't you agree?

 

MMORPGs used to infer "persistent worlds." Because other people (and games) wanted in on the phenomena, they decided to jump on the bandwagon. Why? I have no idea :) MMORPGs and MMO(G)s are NOT that great of sellers, as a genre. What they do, other than massively multi-player, can be done so much better in single player games of the same sub-genre.

I often wonder why people even want to classify games that do not fit MMORPG generally accepted definition (or even MMO), as such. What is the point?

When all is said and done, people looking for MMORPGs, or even just MMOs, will not appreciate being directed to a game that does not have the features that these 2 "labels" indicate. Why even try?

 

I have been in a zone with many, many players in WoW.  I don't really know how many, but once it was enough to crash the server.  It was a really rare event to be in the same spot with a hundred or two hundred people though.  But it did happen.  I'm pretty sure I've never seen more than 200 people on my screen at the same time though.

 

I wasn't saying that MMO and MMORPG must be the same thing.  The two terms either refer to the same thing and are interchangable, which means D3 and WoT cannot be an MMO the way that World of Warcraft is an MMO, or MMORPG and MMO have a different meaning, which would allow for D3 and WoT to be MMOs, while WoW is an MMORPG.  There doesn't seem to be a third option where WoW is an MMORPG, MMO is not the same thing as MMORPG, but D3 and WoT cannot be MMOs.

1) WoW = MMORPG & MMORPG = MMO & D3/WoT != MMO (MMORPG)

2) WoW = MMORPG & MMORPG != MMO & D3/WoT = MMO

3) WoW = MMORPG & MMORPG != MMO & D3/WoT != MMO

It doesn't seem like anyone has brought up option 3 in a conversation or said that it's the "way things are".  Options 1 and 2 seem to be the two options competing with each other.

 

As far as the definitions, I just find it interesting that it's such a contestable topic.  Having terms to describe something specific certainly makes it easier to discuss things in an efficient manner, but two different definitions seem to intersect with "MMO" and I wanted to see where people put themselves.  I know how I use the term, and I'm perfectly fine with adjusting that for a conversation, using "MMO" to mean "MMORPG" even though I see it as an umbrella term, but then I'm pretty open to things changing.  It wouldn't bother me if in a week "MMO" had an accepted meaning completely foreign to what I think it means now as long as I had some idea of what it meant.

 

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6028

4/22/14 9:06:35 PM#58
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by lizardbones
Yes, each of the "matches" is the main point of the game, and in each match, players are interacting with a limited number of people.  The limit ranges from 4 people total to what, a hundred or so, maybe two hundred?  The number of people in each match is not "massive".  Not in my opinion.  Though, in WoW, I'm not sure I was on screen with a massive number of people at any given time either.  If I walked far enough away from a group of players or mobs, I could still see the landscape, but not the players or mobs.


I had no idea LoL and such had matches with so many different players (100-200?). But the gist is what I underlined in your post, "In my opinion." Unfortunately, everyone has their own opinion on what constitutes "massive." As for WoW, I experienced a "massive" gathering of players when Cata released. Many players gathered to get their new, faster mounts in Stormwind.

 

 


Originally posted by lizardbones
In games like World of Tanks, players aren't interacting with the same people over and over.  They are interacting with new people during each "match".  In an MMORPG, I'm not interacting with a thousand people all at once, I'm interacting with a few people at a time.  The difference appears to be that in one, I'm traveling through a world, and in the other I'm not traveling but "teleporting" to zones where the players are.  I can still interact with as many people, all logged into the same server I'm logged into, the difference is the method I use to get to where the people are.


Same here. I guess the difference boils down to "opportunity." While in a group, I am interacting with 2-8 players. While soloing, I have the "opportunity" to interact with anyone else I come across. I may have chat boxes (world chat, local chat, guild chat, maybe a "/tell" conversation going on) open where I can interact lots, or a few, but that is similar to the lobbies in the other examples of games. I am not engaging in "the game" through chat channels :)

 

 


Originally posted by lizardbones
Either "MMO" and "MMORPG" are the same thing, in which case games like WoT or D3 cannot be MMOs because they do not have a persistent and shared world, or "MMO" doesn't mean what "MMORPG" means, in which case WoT and D3 can be an MMO.  Having a persistent, shared world is a requirement of MMORPGs, but unless MMO=MMORPG, having a persistent, shared world isn't necessarily a requirement of MMOs.  There doesn't appear to be a third option on the table.


Why? Why is it either/or?  Why do you think they have to be the same thing? MMORPGs ARE MMOs, but the reverse is not always true. MMORPG is a "sub-set" of MMO, just like MMOFPS, MMORTS, MMOARPG, and the rest of MMO sub-sets. What all of these genres have in common is, "MMO."

 

 


Originally posted by lizardbones
It should be noted that regardless of the results of the poll, there does not seem to be a consensus on what "MMO" or "MMOG" means.  Searching the internet, some games, like World of Tanks are listed as MMOgs, while others, like Diablo 3 are not.  There doesn't seem to be a lot of different between WoT and D3 in terms of how players get from match to match so it's hard to say what distinctions are being made between the games.  It seems to come down to a subjective opinion.  So everyone try to keep that in mind.  While we're discussing this, there is no objective evidence "in the world" to really backup what we're discussing.


MMO is the same thing as an MMOG. The "G" is inferred in "MMO." Otherwise, we would be talking about MMO Chat Room, MMO e-mail service, or MMO Video Sharing. "Multi-player" kind of assumes we are speaking about games, don't you agree?

 

MMORPGs used to infer "persistent worlds." Because other people (and games) wanted in on the phenomena, they decided to jump on the bandwagon. Why? I have no idea :) MMORPGs and MMO(G)s are NOT that great of sellers, as a genre. What they do, other than massively multi-player, can be done so much better in single player games of the same sub-genre.

I often wonder why people even want to classify games that do not fit MMORPG generally accepted definition (or even MMO), as such. What is the point?

When all is said and done, people looking for MMORPGs, or even just MMOs, will not appreciate being directed to a game that does not have the features that these 2 "labels" indicate. Why even try?

stand-o-vation

 

/tears-from-eyes

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6028

4/22/14 9:16:25 PM#59
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by Swids2010
Diablo 3 you can only play with 3 or 4 other players cant you been a while but i didn't think it was more than that yes that is Multiplayer but i wouldn't call it massive same with call of duty 8vs 8 is not massive the term MMO is used to liberally by game developers at the moment a hand full of players playing together does not make it massive.

 
A "massive" number of people are interacting with each other in the lobby, and a "massive" number of people were interacting through the auction house.  Both inside and outside of the game players are trading items on a massive level now that there's no auction house.

 

Is the "massive" aspect of "MMO" only valid if it includes potentially seeing a "massive" number of players inside a game's world?



While I don't think there is any dispute about the number of players in the lobby or auction house, are those what League of Legends, (and similar games), are all about?

 

I am sure some players log in simply to chat in the lobby or buy/sell in the auction house, but really, is that what this game is all about? Can you sell in the auction house without playing in matches? (Where does the gear come from?)

I thought the matches was where the game was played. Matches are very limited in the players allowed in. Very limited. Maybe I'm mistaken?

Also keep in mind that LoL is based off of DoTA, which was a mod of Warcraft 3 RTS.

So if LoL is a MMO, than so is Warcraft 3.

 

Now lets absorb how "Insert word I dont want to say here" that sounds...

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3191

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

4/22/14 9:20:22 PM#60


Originally posted by lizardbones
I have been in a zone with many, many players in WoW.  I don't really know how many, but once it was enough to crash the server.  It was a really rare event to be in the same spot with a hundred or two hundred people though.  But it did happen.  I'm pretty sure I've never seen more than 200 people on my screen at the same time though.

I wasn't saying that MMO and MMORPG must be the same thing.  The two terms either refer to the same thing and are interchangable, which means D3 and WoT cannot be an MMO the way that World of Warcraft is an MMO, or MMORPG and MMO have a different meaning, which would allow for D3 and WoT to be MMOs, while WoW is an MMORPG.  There doesn't seem to be a third option where WoW is an MMORPG, MMO is not the same thing as MMORPG, but D3 and WoT cannot be MMOs.

1) WoW = MMORPG & MMORPG = MMO & D3/WoT != MMO (MMORPG)

2) WoW = MMORPG & MMORPG != MMO & D3/WoT = MMO

3) WoW = MMORPG & MMORPG != MMO & D3/WoT != MMO

It doesn't seem like anyone has brought up option 3 in a conversation or said that it's the "way things are".  Options 1 and 2 seem to be the two options competing with each other.

As far as the definitions, I just find it interesting that it's such a contestable topic.  Having terms to describe something specific certainly makes it easier to discuss things in an efficient manner, but two different definitions seem to intersect with "MMO" and I wanted to see where people put themselves.  I know how I use the term, and I'm perfectly fine with adjusting that for a conversation, using "MMO" to mean "MMORPG" even though I see it as an umbrella term, but then I'm pretty open to things changing.  It wouldn't bother me if in a week "MMO" had an accepted meaning completely foreign to what I think it means now as long as I had some idea of what it meant.



Yes, that mass of players in my screenshot was annoyingly terrible. I could not even reach the "flight instructor" :)

What about the 4th formula?

4) WoW = MMORPG & MMORPG != MMO & D3/WoT != MMO

The reason I add it is that you seem to assume a different qualification for MMO not previously defined. Just because a game does not "fit" into the "MMORPG" category, does not automatically make it an "MMO." Plug in any multi-player game other than D3 or WoT, and the formula fails. CoD? Doom on a LAN? Unreal Tournament?

Then, you get into the "sticky wicket" that is RPG definition :)

While you say you are not trying to say "MMORPG = MMO", your arguments seem to point to this assumption. Am I misreading them?

Really, when all is said and done, anyone can call anything whatever they want. The troubles come when communicating that idea to others. In some aspects, D3 and WoT could be called MMOs. The "opportunity" to play with lots (massive numbers?) of other players could be seen as the same as an persistent world with the "opportunities." Usually, most players are not interacting with all of these players on a consistent basis, just like D3 and WoT. I think the difference for most is that in, say WoW, the other players are "seen in the world" whereas in the D3 and WoT, they are not.

PS: Sorry about the post trimming. My formatting got all screwed up, so I threw up my hands in defeat :)

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

4 Pages « 1 2 3 4 » Search