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EVE Online

EVE Online 

Jita (General)  » Thinking of Playing EvE? Perhaps reconsider.

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360 posts found
  Horusra

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2382

4/18/14 12:35:41 PM#101
Not sure I would say Eve has content in the traditional sense. More that people are time invested.
  Ikonoclastia

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/11
Posts: 184

 
OP  4/18/14 12:45:20 PM#102
Originally posted by Dihoru
They may have banned him but he apologized to the community and to the respective player and stepped down from CSM chair on his own. For someone so quick to judge other's actions you forget the steps he took to right things which tells me you are a part of the story somehow.
Also Pathfinder Online,and any other game, will never threaten EVE because just like WoW and WoT it is a titan in its area and has a decade's worth of content behind it already. Also never wish ill on someone so you can take enjoyment in it then mention karma in the same sentence... those two concepts are mutually exclusive.

Yeah I'm not sure apologizing after what he did was really enough.  It was probably one of the lowest points in MMO history.  I was reviled when I watched that video.  A permanant ban should have been imposed, it was surely deserved.  Inciting people to encourage someone to commit suicide is a criminal offence, not a prank gone wrong.  

  Makidian

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/13
Posts: 207

4/18/14 12:53:24 PM#103
Originally posted by Boldyn

Are you thinking about playing EVE?

 

Are you reckless, naive and not the sharpest tool? Then don't.

 

Otherwise, go ahead and enjoy massive freedom.

 

This has been known since Before the game was released, Wake up.

Can this be blown up in big neon green letters please ?

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5507

4/18/14 12:55:33 PM#104
Originally posted by Makidian
Originally posted by Boldyn

Are you thinking about playing EVE?

 

Are you reckless, naive and not the sharpest tool? Then don't.

 

Otherwise, go ahead and enjoy massive freedom.

 

This has been known since Before the game was released, Wake up.

Can this be blown up in big neon green letters please ?

might want to think about using fewer syllables

  Horusra

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2382

4/18/14 12:56:32 PM#105
So...

Are you a jerk, like to abuse others, and general are hated. We have a game for you.
  Makidian

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/13
Posts: 207

4/18/14 1:01:07 PM#106
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by Makidian
Originally posted by Boldyn

Are you thinking about playing EVE?

 

Are you reckless, naive and not the sharpest tool? Then don't.

 

Otherwise, go ahead and enjoy massive freedom.

 

This has been known since Before the game was released, Wake up.

Can this be blown up in big neon green letters please ?

might want to think about using fewer syllables

Umm k ?

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5507

4/18/14 1:02:28 PM#107
Originally posted by Horusra
So...

Are you a jerk, like to abuse others, and general are hated. We have a game for you.

Global Agenda right..  well people like that game too, but there's no need to badmouth them on the Eve forum

  Ikonoclastia

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/11
Posts: 184

 
OP  4/18/14 1:04:33 PM#108
Originally posted by Makidian
Originally posted by Boldyn

Are you thinking about playing EVE?

 

Are you reckless, naive and not the sharpest tool? Then don't.

 

Otherwise, go ahead and enjoy massive freedom.

 

This has been known since Before the game was released, Wake up.

Can this be blown up in big neon green letters please ?

Its actually not true.  I think you don't really get the meaning of freedom in the context of EvE.  Freedom does not mean breaking the rules.  The EULA clearly states you may not harass other players with the intent of causing their enjoyment of the game to be damaged.  You may also not damage the reputation of CCP or EvE.  

 

While you have freedom, that doesn't mean harassing other players, that doesn't mean taking someone on teamspeak and humiliating them, making fun of a disability they have and causing their wife to have a panic attack, that doesn't mean calling for people to encourage someone to commit suicide, that doesn't mean following a player around for 4 months calling them a pedophile or being an ass.  It doesnt mean giving up your self respect and luring a guy with cancer on the pretense your his friend and blowing up his stuff.  Freedom doesn't mean being an asshat with zero consequences.

Freedom is a two way street.  You get what you give.  If what your giving is aimed at deliberately causing someone out of game annoyance or unhappiness you deserve to be banned for it imo.  

 

  Makidian

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/13
Posts: 207

4/18/14 1:08:49 PM#109
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
Originally posted by Makidian
Originally posted by Boldyn

Are you thinking about playing EVE?

 

Are you reckless, naive and not the sharpest tool? Then don't.

 

Otherwise, go ahead and enjoy massive freedom.

 

This has been known since Before the game was released, Wake up.

Can this be blown up in big neon green letters please ?

Its actually not true.  I think you don't really get the meaning of freedom in the context of EvE.  Freedom does not mean breaking the rules.  The EULA clearly states you may not harass other players with the intent of causing their enjoyment of the game to be damaged.  You may also not damage the reputation of CCP or EvE.  

 

While you have freedom, that doesn't mean harassing other players, that doesn't mean taking someone on teamspeak and humiliating them, making fun of a disability they have and causing their wife to have a panic attack, that doesn't mean calling for people to encourage someone to commit suicide, that doesn't mean following a player around for 4 months calling them a pedophile or being an ass.  It doesnt mean giving up your self respect and luring a guy with cancer on the pretense your his friend and blowing up his stuff.  Freedom doesn't mean being an asshat with zero consequences.

Freedom is a two way street.  You get what you give.  If what your giving is aimed at deliberately causing someone out of game annoyance or unhappiness you deserve to be banned for it imo.  

 I agree but your talking like I'm one of those people. I'm a good guy just learning the ropes.

 

  Xerathule

Novice Member

Joined: 9/29/09
Posts: 119

4/18/14 1:09:46 PM#110
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Griefing has been around since early computer based gaming has been around.  The intention of the griefer is to cause annoyance, loss, or unpleasantness for the victim.  In extreme cases griefing causes people to quit playing a game as their ability to enjoy the game is curtailed.  In such instances its counter productive for the games company to allow such activity in its game.  It loses subscriptions, which causes loss of revenue.  Griefing also causes damage to the reputation of the company and the game that company runs.

 

Not so for EvE Online.  CCP Games actively support and encourage player griefing against its 'carebear' and 'newbie' population.  When Goonswarm held its Burn Jita event, an event designed to bypass the usual 24 hours of notice in high sec wars, by taking an armada of ships into high sec's Jita trade system and suicide killing any and every player they could, CCP not only did nothing, they actively encouraged it.

 

When Goonswarms leader stood up and belittled, humiliated, shared private correspondence and encouraged a player to commit suicide at CCP's fanfest, both the audience and developers who were presence laughed along with him.  Was he permbanned, no.  

 

Recently a coalition (NC Dot) invited a person whom they knew was recovering from cancer to join their coalition.  They invited him to put all this stuff into a carrier and provided him with a cynosaural jump point into their null sec space.  They then proceeded to blow everything he had up and pod him.  A guy with cancer? This is the sort of depravity that should never exist in any game.  What did CCP do? Nothing.  

 

In the last few weeks the Erotica1fiasco, in which a player and his wife were victimised, harassed and had a disability mocked caused CCP to reevaluate its stance on griefing.  Their response.  Well it was actually nothing and meant nothing. They reserved the right to decide when someone has crossed the line between "normal" griefing and "naughty" griefing. Erotica1 was banned however only after 6 weeks and huge community outcry, including a 300 page threadnaught, that might have caused CCP to get some bad press.

And of course Erotica1 is back with a new alt, running the exact same scam with the same bonus rooms that led to the outcry.

 

Do the developers simply turn a blind eye to this conduct or are they complicit in it?  A recent event led by the developers themselves involved inviting a large number of "carebears" from highsec into null sec (the main area set aside for PvP) and into the welcoming arms of a waiting gate camp (basically EvE's main form of PvP - Spawncamping).  Mistake? Highly unlikely.  It seems more than likely that they leaked the location of this event to the alliance in question with the express purpose of feeding their players to the waiting alliance.

 

That the developers and certain players in the game are linked by more than a customer / developer relationship was demonstrated when the developers staged an event in the home system of one of the most powerful alliances in the game.  The leader of whom is an ex-CCP developer themselves.  On this occasion the developers dropped 800 billion isk worth of items exclusively to this player entity.

 

Which brings me to my own experience with griefing and developer apathy.  In early February I decided to help a group of players set up a non-kill on sight area in Stain null sec.  At this same time a player or players created 3 alt accounts, sent those alts out to Stain where they proceeded to follow me from system to system, verbally abusing me in local for hours at a time.  I was called a pedophile and accused of watching child pornography as well as being subjected to constant foul language.  This went on non-stop for 4 months.

 

I managed to get the player or players in question to admit they were specifically targeting me for harassment and petitioned them.  Even though I supplied the GM's with screenshots in which the player states they are specifically targeting me for harassment no action was taken against those players. Given the characters in question were using cloaks which prevents any retaliation I was not able to take any in game action against them. 

 

I then went to the forums and posted about this issue.  The forum post I created was trolled incessantly, I was insulted, abused, belittled and villified for over 23 pages and then my thread locked by mods for 'breaching a rule of discussing GM actions' while the people who had spent hours of their time harassing and mocking my situation received no punishment at all.

 

I unsubscribed my accounts and posted a message to CCP in the Out of Pod Experience subforum regarding the lack of moderation and the lack of support dealing with my harassment and that thread was also subjected to trolling, spam, and anti-social posts which breached almost every rule of the forums.  Yet no action was taken against those players.

 

So if you're an aweful person, you like to cause other players to feel bad, you like to cause pain to people who have cancer, you enjoy trolling, you enjoy making fun of people with disabilities, you like being led into a traps by developers, you're okay with developer favoritism, you enjoy flying around in space with corporations that have names like "Creampie Carpet Munchers" and your a general asshat then EvE online is likely for you.

For normal people, I'd suggest a different game.

 

Infinity Ziona

 

 

 

 

Why complain?  Don't play it if you don't like it!  It isn't for everybody!  That is why it isn't World of Warcraft!  Quit ruining our games!

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3583

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

4/18/14 1:16:00 PM#111

Welcome to EVE... Its NOT a game for the trusting, naive, Progressive or anyone else who has become a victim of the nanny state mentality.   Thats simply the way it operates. If you don't like it, don't play it. Its really as simple as that.

Three rules will help anyone actually wishing to play the game.

Rule One. Trust NO One.  I mean it. While there are lots of helpful people in EVE, its also home base to Mittens and his merry band of rampaging internet thugs (and worse...).

Rule Two. NEVER undock what you can't afford to replace.

Rule Three. Keep your clone up to date, and use jump clones in really dangerous situations.

I played EVE as a high sec carebear for almost six years.  In that time I never left high sec, nor did I fleet with anyone else in the game. Its a good game, for those interested in such things.  But it isn't nor is it ever likely to become a "nice" game for those expecting to have their hands held, and/or have the Dev's kiss their boo boos when someone is "mean" to them.

  Ikonoclastia

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/11
Posts: 184

 
OP  4/18/14 1:27:36 PM#112
Originally posted by Xerathule
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Griefing has been around since early computer based gaming has been around.  The intention of the griefer is to cause annoyance, loss, or unpleasantness for the victim.  In extreme cases griefing causes people to quit playing a game as their ability to enjoy the game is curtailed.  In such instances its counter productive for the games company to allow such activity in its game.  It loses subscriptions, which causes loss of revenue.  Griefing also causes damage to the reputation of the company and the game that company runs.

 

Not so for EvE Online.  CCP Games actively support and encourage player griefing against its 'carebear' and 'newbie' population.  When Goonswarm held its Burn Jita event, an event designed to bypass the usual 24 hours of notice in high sec wars, by taking an armada of ships into high sec's Jita trade system and suicide killing any and every player they could, CCP not only did nothing, they actively encouraged it.

 

When Goonswarms leader stood up and belittled, humiliated, shared private correspondence and encouraged a player to commit suicide at CCP's fanfest, both the audience and developers who were presence laughed along with him.  Was he permbanned, no.  

 

Recently a coalition (NC Dot) invited a person whom they knew was recovering from cancer to join their coalition.  They invited him to put all this stuff into a carrier and provided him with a cynosaural jump point into their null sec space.  They then proceeded to blow everything he had up and pod him.  A guy with cancer? This is the sort of depravity that should never exist in any game.  What did CCP do? Nothing.  

 

In the last few weeks the Erotica1fiasco, in which a player and his wife were victimised, harassed and had a disability mocked caused CCP to reevaluate its stance on griefing.  Their response.  Well it was actually nothing and meant nothing. They reserved the right to decide when someone has crossed the line between "normal" griefing and "naughty" griefing. Erotica1 was banned however only after 6 weeks and huge community outcry, including a 300 page threadnaught, that might have caused CCP to get some bad press.

And of course Erotica1 is back with a new alt, running the exact same scam with the same bonus rooms that led to the outcry.

 

Do the developers simply turn a blind eye to this conduct or are they complicit in it?  A recent event led by the developers themselves involved inviting a large number of "carebears" from highsec into null sec (the main area set aside for PvP) and into the welcoming arms of a waiting gate camp (basically EvE's main form of PvP - Spawncamping).  Mistake? Highly unlikely.  It seems more than likely that they leaked the location of this event to the alliance in question with the express purpose of feeding their players to the waiting alliance.

 

That the developers and certain players in the game are linked by more than a customer / developer relationship was demonstrated when the developers staged an event in the home system of one of the most powerful alliances in the game.  The leader of whom is an ex-CCP developer themselves.  On this occasion the developers dropped 800 billion isk worth of items exclusively to this player entity.

 

Which brings me to my own experience with griefing and developer apathy.  In early February I decided to help a group of players set up a non-kill on sight area in Stain null sec.  At this same time a player or players created 3 alt accounts, sent those alts out to Stain where they proceeded to follow me from system to system, verbally abusing me in local for hours at a time.  I was called a pedophile and accused of watching child pornography as well as being subjected to constant foul language.  This went on non-stop for 4 months.

 

I managed to get the player or players in question to admit they were specifically targeting me for harassment and petitioned them.  Even though I supplied the GM's with screenshots in which the player states they are specifically targeting me for harassment no action was taken against those players. Given the characters in question were using cloaks which prevents any retaliation I was not able to take any in game action against them. 

 

I then went to the forums and posted about this issue.  The forum post I created was trolled incessantly, I was insulted, abused, belittled and villified for over 23 pages and then my thread locked by mods for 'breaching a rule of discussing GM actions' while the people who had spent hours of their time harassing and mocking my situation received no punishment at all.

 

I unsubscribed my accounts and posted a message to CCP in the Out of Pod Experience subforum regarding the lack of moderation and the lack of support dealing with my harassment and that thread was also subjected to trolling, spam, and anti-social posts which breached almost every rule of the forums.  Yet no action was taken against those players.

 

So if you're an aweful person, you like to cause other players to feel bad, you like to cause pain to people who have cancer, you enjoy trolling, you enjoy making fun of people with disabilities, you like being led into a traps by developers, you're okay with developer favoritism, you enjoy flying around in space with corporations that have names like "Creampie Carpet Munchers" and your a general asshat then EvE online is likely for you.

For normal people, I'd suggest a different game.

 

Infinity Ziona

 

 

 

 

Why complain?  Don't play it if you don't like it!  It isn't for everybody!  That is why it isn't World of Warcraft!  Quit ruining our games!

I'm complaining because this is not what EvE was supposed to be.  I started in 2003 and it was a great game.  It had a good community.  It had ganking and drama but it didn't have the mean nasty metagaming crap that it's starting to have.  Quit ruining my game.  

  brihtwulf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/08/03
Posts: 866

4/18/14 1:34:46 PM#113

Most players you encounter in EVE are either part of the griefing problem, or simply complacent about it.  Harassment is part of the game's society, and it all seems to cater to the lowest common denominator.  The "freedom" people keep talking about is only the freedom to try to ruin other players' experiences.  It isn't about doing what YOU want to do, or what YOU enjoy.  It's about stopping others from enjoying the game.

It seems like people use games like this as a way to do things that they know damn well aren't acceptable in real life.  Harassing others, following people around and insulting or threatening them, and just doing whatever you can in an attempt to make others' lives miserable is actually illegal in most developed countries (in real life).  So, take someone with sociopathic tendencies that's too fearful to act out their sick ideas in real life, and provide them with a game that lets you (and to an extent encourages) harass other people.

I've always said that "open PvP" isn't about challenge.  It isn't about skill, or abilities, or anything else.  Because if it were, you would have people seeking out similar players in order to test their strengths.  But that isn't what happens.  Instead, you get people who are exponentially more powerful than their victims, searching out the easiest targets and attempting to cause them trouble over and over.  People who are looking for a challenge don't kick someone while they're down.

EVE and games like it bring an analogy like this to mind:

They claim to be like boxers, trained and looking for the best fight to prove their worth.  But instead, they're like a professional boxer hanging out at an elementary school playground to beat on small children.  Then they jump about, acting as if what they had done shows their strength and capabilities.

I feel sorry for people like that.  Though they disgust me, and their actions are sometimes sickening, I pity them.  What a sad, sad existence.

So, unless you're one of the like-minded fools who enjoys trying to make others' lives as difficult as possible because it's the only way you can feel like "a man", I suggest you find another game to occupy your time.

  Hariken

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/13
Posts: 654

4/18/14 1:43:13 PM#114
I remember playing this years ago. It pretty much was like this back then too. But it was a little better than it is now. Now its just a lame game full of worthless human beings. Its good they have a game they can fit right into. I love how this is the only fan website that likes this game. Anywhere else no one has anything nice to say about it. The fact that the game is still running proves how crappy the commmunities are in online games.
  olepi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 1072

4/18/14 1:44:05 PM#115

EvE is simply a FFA full loot PvP game. If you play a game like that, be prepared to be ganked, cheated, insulted, and griefed.

Some people enjoy this type of game play, and others don't. Don't play that kind of game if you don't like it.

------------
RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  Coman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 1957

4/18/14 1:50:52 PM#116
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
They were old friends he had before leaving EvE. When he came back after going into remission they pretended to still be his friends then lured him out to be ganked. If you think that's ok you have serious issues.  But it's not the players totally at fault here, it's the developer who takes no action and sets no boundaries.

I see no problem with this really and I doubt I have serious issues. I REALLY doubt someone with cancer want to be threated as someone with cancer. The doctors in his life do that more then enough I guess. Maybe I am wrong though...If however mean that "friends" gank him this way then yes I have a problem with that.

  Agent_Joseph

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 966

4/18/14 1:53:42 PM#117
I am very nice person in RL but in games I am an big asshole ,just for fun doing something different

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  Pyuk

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 666

4/18/14 1:58:40 PM#118
The people the OP is describing are sociopaths - people with psychopathic personalities whose behaviors are often antisocial, often criminal, and who lack a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience. I believe the online version to also include cowardice coupled with the freedom of anonymity from being in an online fantasy. Most of these people would never act like this in the real world for fear of getting their asses kicked inside out, but with the safety behind their monitor, they're free to carry out their mental sickness.

I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  LydarSynn

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/03
Posts: 177

4/18/14 2:03:13 PM#119

Here is my take on griefing in games like Eve. There are plenty of ass wipes that anyone can meet IRL. IRL you can't do much about them other than ignoring them if you can. The same types of people that you meet IRL also play games so there are going to be your fair share of ass wipes as well. The problem with MMOs is that there is no penalty for continuous griefing. There are numerous glitches that griefers use not to mention game mechanics that are just plain out of whack.

I would be fine with griefers in any type of game as long as the game mechanics are realistic and the consequences were harsh. In most MMOs, the game acts like the players are the only entities in the game world. This is why they are games and not virtual worlds. A virtual world would model and account for the vast numbers of NPCs that would have a large impact on the players in every aspect from the economy to laws and player security.

Griefers in games are something like criminals IRL. IRL they are taken care of by the system most of the time. In MMOs, there is no 'system'. Without taking these things into account, there is anarchy and a small group to griefers has way too much influence on the game. Until developers start to model consequences into their games and create at least a semi-realistic social order, they will always remain games that can  be easily exploited.

  rochrist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/17/06
Posts: 92

4/18/14 2:04:51 PM#120
Originally posted by coltrask
Originally posted by sgel
Originally posted by coltrask
More like star wars to star trek no?  I feel that most EVE players wanted something like Star Citizen from the get go though, 

Erm No.  If eve-players wanted immersion and a space flight sim they would have played one. You don't play EvE for those reasons.

Star Citizen is going to be a ridiculously simplistic game compared to what EvE Online offers and again both offerings are nothing alike.... I feel like a fool just making the comparison.

I'll be playing Star Citizen because I loved the Wing Commander series.

 

 

I feel the same, as I said most people, and i am only counting the people I know from ASCN days BOB and then NC and RZR, wanted an FPS sim.  My problem, and most people I know in Eve's problem has always been, no space FPS has been good enough to take us from EVE, until now hopefully...

          Also though I said, We shall see, if it can pull the hardcore EVE players.  Those being the ones you describe.  But sorry a space mmo is comparable to a space mmo.  Yes EVE is ridiculously complicated even for the long time Veterans.  I stand by my opinion though and respect yours.

I hope not. I'd rather they stay in EVE so that I know where they are.

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