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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » ESO: It's not a bug, it is poor game design

15 posts found
  UnleadedRev

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/10
Posts: 336

 
OP  4/16/14 6:39:02 AM#1

First off, I love the Elder Scrolls universe, it's games and also ESO...

Obviously, ESO was made using a "cookie cutter" approach, i.e. reuse of objects etc, which you can see in how many interiors look exactly the same, etc, as well as in other areas of the game and its aspects.
All of which is a minor nuance and to a degree understandable.

However, where this becomes an issue is in one of the reused quest models; that being the many quests which require players to STOP what they are required to do in 90% of the game, that being... killing monsters.

Thus, it should be no surprise, that when encountering one of these quests, to see a large amount of players waiting for the monster to spawn and then praying that other players not familiar with the quest, will not come by randomly and kill the spawn before it can run its quest mechanics.

The result is, 90% of the players who do not know about the quest, kill the spawn and break the quest.
Desperate spamming by the questing players pleading for other players to not kill the spawn, to allow it to do its thing...as part of the quest mechanic required to advance the quest....usually are not successful.
As unfortunately, many players are not watching chat close enough to notice the pleas, and many turn zone chat off due to the gold spammers and growing infantile discussions, but moreover the other players just do not know about the quest.

The end result is frustrated and angry questers who feel everyone is either dumb,  a jerk or griefer, when they kill such a spawn.
Well, that is true for a very tiny tiny number of players.
99% of them had no way of knowing...
And thus, the poor design of certain aspects of the game, hurts all the good things in this game.

This was all known in BETA, and nothing was done, and it may be a long long time before such things can be fixed.

Should you complain about such things, you are told that all MMORPGs are like this at release.

The question is why?
The answer is that YOU the player allowed it.

You the player have purchased MMOs since the late 1990s that are released in a form no other major release of other types of games would have been deemed acceptable.
But back in the day, the novelty and want to be with thousands of other players was a desire that caused us to over look such horrible short comings.
Thus, the standard for MMOs are now 1) A poor release and 2) Bugs forever.
This has now carried over into all other types of games beyond MMOs as well.

Maybe it is time, to just say no to games that want you to pay a subscription for unfinished products.
Unfinished not in content or bug fixing, but the BASIC, COMMON SENSE, things that are the back bone of every game, i.e. a minimum standard of quality.

Otherwise, as we have seen, quality goes down with every release because developers know that you the player will either accept it, or flame others who do not accept it.

I love ESO, but I will not re-subscribe and fork over more money until I see progress.

Vote with your dollars, if you do, you will see results.
It is just a shame that we have to do this with out beloved Elder Scrolls MMO, and hopefully, by the time our 30 days are up, we can re-subscribe to a high standard of a product worthy of a subscription.

 

 

Fear the Alien, the Psyker, the Heretic, the moronic Steam Moderator.

  Slapshot1188

Elite Member

Joined: 5/06/07
Posts: 4376

4/16/14 6:47:22 AM#2

Do you have an example of this?

 

I am about to wrap-up Coldharbor for DC and there are only a few encounters that I recall having a similar mechanic and they were not quest related.  Instead they were preludes to World Boss encounters where the first NPC would eventually summon a really big guy if left alone.   I don't see that as a design flaw.

 

if you have an actual quest where a mob you have to talk to is being killed by other players that might be different.   

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  ElirionLoth

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/12
Posts: 272

4/16/14 6:49:49 AM#3

Let me try to rephrase your post because it's a bit hard to understand.  You believe that most of the quest bugs stem from the fact that a killable quest mob has to perform certain actions before the quest is updated and that the mob is killable before this action is completed.  Players are coming along, not paying attention, killing these mobs before they complete said action and breaking the quests.  Is that the jist of your post? 

 

I haven't run into this problem at all in TESO.  In fact, I don't remember a quest mob being killable before he has to complete a required quest action.  All of the bugged quests that I've had are just unclickable items that should have been interactable.  Mob spawns have not been a problem.  There were some problems with that in beta but not since release for me. 

 

I'll be voting with my money and resubbing.  Your explanation is very far fetched and generally unbelievable.  Sounds more like a conspiracy theory than a valid concern.

 

 

  oldboygamer

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/14
Posts: 142

4/16/14 7:40:48 AM#4
I haven't come across this either. Usually if you tag the creature at all you'll get the quest update, sometimes even if you are close when it dies you'll get the update. I thought it worked like open tagging in lotro and open grouping in WAR.
  kosac

Novice Member

Joined: 4/21/05
Posts: 199

4/16/14 7:53:37 AM#5
there is no quest ingame where killing some mob makes quest unfinishable..
  User Deleted
4/16/14 7:57:54 AM#6
Originally posted by kosac
there is no quest ingame where killing some mob makes quest unfinishable..

Try pretty much any of the quests you pick up in the public dungeons... where bots and other players are surrounding the boss and it is killed so fast you never get to tag it.

  bobfish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/06
Posts: 1693

4/16/14 8:00:44 AM#7
No quests like this in AD faction either, just one world boss.
  bobfish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/06
Posts: 1693

4/16/14 8:01:38 AM#8
Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
Originally posted by kosac
there is no quest ingame where killing some mob makes quest unfinishable..

Try pretty much any of the quests you pick up in the public dungeons... where bots and other players are surrounding the boss and it is killed so fast you never get to tag it.

That is different to the OPs description, but ZOS has/is patching the loot on those bosses to make them less worthwhile to farm, which should help that issue.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3442

I actually still like MMORPGs

4/16/14 8:03:22 AM#9

There was a AD quest where people thought it had to do with these mobs spawning in the side rooms which started the ritual. That was not true though, the problem was zoning into a phase where the ritual was already stopped.

So players THOUGHT that other overzealous individuals were stopping the mobs from "doing their thing" and preventing the quest from being completed. But the truth was that they just needed to log out and log back in to get a new phase.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2721

4/16/14 8:05:50 AM#10
Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
Originally posted by kosac
there is no quest ingame where killing some mob makes quest unfinishable..

Try pretty much any of the quests you pick up in the public dungeons... where bots and other players are surrounding the boss and it is killed so fast you never get to tag it.

That's not what OP is even talking about, on top of the fact that what OP is trying to do (if it's the quest Im thinking of - Unsafe Haven) does not actually work. Either the ritual is happening, or it isnt and is bugged so just find a new instance of it. Also, didn't they just fix this in yesterday's patch?

Also the other unrelated issue which you mentioned, was also fixed by the timers which were added in on getting loot from the bosses in public dungeons. Have gone into a couple of them this morning and no bots / campers anymore.

  rmk70

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 402

4/16/14 8:10:17 AM#11
Originally posted by Yoda_Clone
Originally posted by kosac
there is no quest ingame where killing some mob makes quest unfinishable..

Try pretty much any of the quests you pick up in the public dungeons... where bots and other players are surrounding the boss and it is killed so fast you never get to tag it.

I've never had an issue getting my kill in public dungeons... 

 

Man, people complain about anything. 

  sgel

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/11/08
Posts: 1145

I've got this creature on my back.. it just wont let go.

4/16/14 8:17:38 AM#12
Originally posted by rmk70

Man, people complain about anything. 

They even complain about people complaining  :)

..Cake..

  Mothanos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1903

4/16/14 8:28:37 AM#13

From level 1 to level 50 V1 i encountered around 15 bugged quests.
Most are fixed and patched already.

Never did i see or coulnt complete this strange phenomenon the OP is complaining about.


  SmarnyPete

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/14
Posts: 69

4/16/14 9:07:20 AM#14
As others have stated I haven't seen any quest not complete due to people killing the NPC. Level 30. I'll keep subbing becuase I have years of Cyrodill to AvA.
  Kuanshu

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 277

4/16/14 9:20:44 AM#15
Originally posted by UnleadedRev

First off, I love the Elder Scrolls universe, it's games and also ESO...

Obviously, ESO was made using a "cookie cutter" approach, i.e. reuse of objects etc, which you can see in how many interiors look exactly the same, etc, as well as in other areas of the game and its aspects.
All of which is a minor nuance and to a degree understandable.

However, where this becomes an issue is in one of the reused quest models; that being the many quests which require players to STOP what they are required to do in 90% of the game, that being... killing monsters.

Thus, it should be no surprise, that when encountering one of these quests, to see a large amount of players waiting for the monster to spawn and then praying that other players not familiar with the quest, will not come by randomly and kill the spawn before it can run its quest mechanics.

The result is, 90% of the players who do not know about the quest, kill the spawn and break the quest.
Desperate spamming by the questing players pleading for other players to not kill the spawn, to allow it to do its thing...as part of the quest mechanic required to advance the quest....usually are not successful.
As unfortunately, many players are not watching chat close enough to notice the pleas, and many turn zone chat off due to the gold spammers and growing infantile discussions, but moreover the other players just do not know about the quest.

The end result is frustrated and angry questers who feel everyone is either dumb,  a jerk or griefer, when they kill such a spawn.
Well, that is true for a very tiny tiny number of players.
99% of them had no way of knowing...
And thus, the poor design of certain aspects of the game, hurts all the good things in this game.

This was all known in BETA, and nothing was done, and it may be a long long time before such things can be fixed.

Should you complain about such things, you are told that all MMORPGs are like this at release.

The question is why?
The answer is that YOU the player allowed it.

You the player have purchased MMOs since the late 1990s that are released in a form no other major release of other types of games would have been deemed acceptable.
But back in the day, the novelty and want to be with thousands of other players was a desire that caused us to over look such horrible short comings.
Thus, the standard for MMOs are now 1) A poor release and 2) Bugs forever.
This has now carried over into all other types of games beyond MMOs as well.

Maybe it is time, to just say no to games that want you to pay a subscription for unfinished products.
Unfinished not in content or bug fixing, but the BASIC, COMMON SENSE, things that are the back bone of every game, i.e. a minimum standard of quality.

Otherwise, as we have seen, quality goes down with every release because developers know that you the player will either accept it, or flame others who do not accept it.

I love ESO, but I will not re-subscribe and fork over more money until I see progress.

Vote with your dollars, if you do, you will see results.
It is just a shame that we have to do this with out beloved Elder Scrolls MMO, and hopefully, by the time our 30 days are up, we can re-subscribe to a high standard of a product worthy of a subscription.

 

 

You sound like someone who has participated in MMOs for a while and are frustrated due to the fact that they are always released in an untimely fashion with many issues; This is something that MMO gamers simply have to come to terms with, as this is the nature of this genre. Why? Think about it. Massively Multiplayer are the key words here. You cannot adequately  estimate or reasonably determine the variants related to and involved in releasing a game in a persistent world that is supposed to be up 24/7 with 1000s of players online. Especially in these times where you are dealing with spammers, bots, hacks, griefers, exploiters, etc...and alot of immaturity, ignorance, inexperience and pubescent angst among the gaming populace.

I will admit its sad to see millions of dollars and countless hours and all the creative energy put into a MMORPG such as ESO only for them to seemingly fail upon release because they didn't learn from previously released MMORPGs. This is why I am glad to have waited for this game to evolve and mature over a period of months before I purchase this game. The release could have been a lot worse and many of us have played MMORPGs back in the days of dialup and shortly thereafter which would make this a dream game to play in comparison no matter how sentimentally we want to believe otherwise.

I forsee Everquest Next as the next big revolution and game changer in this genre...everything else up to that will be novelty at best for a brief period of amusement, until sometime next year when Everquest Next releases...