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Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft

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General Discussion  » Why are people obnoxious about ending games?

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27 posts found
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13808

 
OP  3/31/14 5:32:28 PM#1

Scenario 1:  It's clear that I'm going to lose a game.  On my last turn, I saw that my opponent had enough on the board to kill me on his next turn.  I looked through my cards and found that I couldn't stop it.  I end my turn and all my opponent has to do is have a single minion already on the board attack my hero and that ends the game.

Some people will do the polite thing:  kill me to promptly end the game so that we can both get the reward for playing and move on.  But a large fraction won't.  Some will sit there and think for a while, play three cards, buff minions, heal his own hero, kill my last minion (which isn't a taunt), and finally get around to killing my hero after using the bulk of the time allowed for his turn.

Why do people do this?

To be clear, I'm not talking about situations where my opponent needs to play a few cards, clear my taunt minions, buff his own minions, or whatever to have a complicated last turn to win the game.  I can understand why it takes a while to think about that.  But when all it takes is this minion attacks my hero with no secrets on the board and the game is 100% guaranteed to end with no further actions?  I don't understand taking 40 seconds for a turn to do 5 other moves before ending it.

-----

Scenario 2:  It's clear that I'm going to win a game.  I have it set up so that I have enough on the board to end the game on my next turn unless my opponent can do something to defend against it (kill minions, drop a taunt, self-heal, etc.).  My opponent sees this, looks through his hand, and realizes that he's lost.

Some people will do the polite thing:  end his turn, let me kill him, and we both get the reward for playing and move on.  But an awful lot of people will decide to concede the match immediately instead.  Letting the match last another 5 seconds would increase the experience rewards for both of us.

This one, I'm a little more sympathetic to.  Some people may not care about experience; from the number of non-golden basic cards they're using, it's pretty obvious that they haven't hit the experience cap yet.  But if you don't care about golden cards, so be it.  And someone might reasonably worry that scenario #1 will play out, as seems to happen a lot.  But I still think it's annoying.

  thinktank001

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1954

4/03/14 2:40:30 AM#2

At first I always played it out, but some players in the forums stated this was bad manners, and it is appropriate to concede if a player does not have the cards to continue.  

 

 

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2081

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

4/03/14 9:27:06 AM#3

If I have a more elaborate way of winning I sometimes do that instead of the clear-cut way to practice or simply make the final turn more amusing, though i don't take time healing myself and other useless stuff just to piss off my opponent.

One game that was really close I decided I wanted to do a real BM finish where I appear to not have an answer to my opponent's play and then play the winning card just before the end of my turn timer, but I felt so bad about it I couldn't go through with it and ended it quickly anyway :)

I kind of prefer to win by killing the opponent rather than having him concede, so I usually don't concede myself so the opponent can get the satisfaction of ending the game his way if I'm on the losing side. Fun to watch sometimes to see what they do if they have some silly play.

"Tiny clown, he got wet. I was talking to a psychic and I can't sleep in the ozone. There are too many different peanuts, looking sad.

  Bloodaxes

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 2664

4/04/14 9:08:09 AM#4

Sometimes I let them give me a killing blow but if I start seeing them buffing monsters, destroying my own or some shit instead of ending it I'll surrender.

There's one thing being friendly there's another being an ass.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13808

 
OP  4/04/14 5:28:59 PM#5
Originally posted by thinktank001

At first I always played it out, but some players in the forums stated this was bad manners, and it is appropriate to concede if a player does not have the cards to continue.  

Conceding prematurely means that both players get less experience.  Once you've got all of the basic cards, you may or may not still care about experience, but when you're playing a class that is below level 10 it's frustrating to be on the cusp of a hard-earned win, only to be denied some of the experience you were expecting because the other guy conceded.

That said, I do what bloodaxes said, too.  If you could readily kill me in one attack and make other moves without killing me, you obviously don't care about experience.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 7026

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

4/05/14 6:48:38 PM#6
Originally posted by thinktank001

At first I always played it out, but some players in the forums stated this was bad manners, and it is appropriate to concede if a player does not have the cards to continue.  

 

 

Actually the term "Bad Manners " comes from the broadcast games and maybe goes back to the serious Starcraft days.

It is not really about conceding it is HOW you win.Example if all you need to do is hit them with a creature,you do it,but if you want to achieve the BM status you rub it in by prolonging and try to force them to concede.

Epoch "Team Dogehouse" i guess was the first big name BM player but now many of the stars try to use a lot of BM,they say it is all in fun,sort of like trash talking but without the talking.

Trash talking goes on in EVERY sport now ,yes even Esports.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  MorningStarGG

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/04
Posts: 406

4/05/14 6:53:41 PM#7
I see an equally large number that refuse to end themselves when they know it's over. If you know you are going to lose, then just go into the menu and end the game. Admit defeat. Why wait for the other person to finish you off? This goes both ways...

Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4821

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/05/14 7:02:38 PM#8

sometimes a player wants to use this super-combo he's been saving all game...and there aren't any other occasions but the last turn

 

  Homitu

Novice Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2045

4/05/14 7:04:50 PM#9
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by thinktank001

At first I always played it out, but some players in the forums stated this was bad manners, and it is appropriate to concede if a player does not have the cards to continue.  

Conceding prematurely means that both players get less experience.  Once you've got all of the basic cards, you may or may not still care about experience, but when you're playing a class that is below level 10 it's frustrating to be on the cusp of a hard-earned win, only to be denied some of the experience you were expecting because the other guy conceded.

That said, I do what bloodaxes said, too.  If you could readily kill me in one attack and make other moves without killing me, you obviously don't care about experience.

You're lacking consistency in your application of the EXP argument. 

According to the most convincing sources I could find (and it should be noted that none of them are 100% definitive), EXP is almost exclusively a function of how many actions a player performs.  So if your metric for what constitutes "good manners" is simply that which nets both players the most EXP, as you seem to imply here, then you should also be ok with players who take all those extra actions before killing you, even if they could have killed you with a single minion attack.  They might not net you any more EXP, but they'll give the winning player some well-deserved extra EXP.  

 

Personally, I don't think any of that matters.  What constitutes good/bad manners, rudeness/politeness is completely subjective. What one person can intend in complete goodwill, another person can perceive as rude.  Some players, for example, interpret use of the "well played" emote as rude if the game was a blowout, and will actually get angry when they hear it; other players think it's the polite thing to say, regardless of how close the game was.  

Even intentionally using bad manners isn't necessarily bad manners...lol.  In many of the shout-casted tournaments that have been streamed on twitch and youtube, many players have made a fun game out of who can end the game in a more rude manner. There's nothing actually rude about what they're doing, as they all generally mean it in good fun.  

  Homitu

Novice Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2045

4/10/14 5:52:19 PM#10
Another relevant video of the moral relativity of bad manners that I just saw on reddit today and reminded me of this thread.  
  jmsgalla

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/06
Posts: 262

4/10/14 5:59:15 PM#11

I have to be honest and admit that I am guilty of this.  However, I only do it when my opponent was dreadfully slow during the rest of the game.  I start to match their time and just screw around while the timer runs out.  

It's not rocket science.  The time allotted is too long to begin with.

  orionblack

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/09
Posts: 417

4/10/14 6:03:07 PM#12
Umm..they do this because you can't reach out and strangle them like you could in real life!! 
  Muke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1641

4/10/14 6:04:16 PM#13
Originally posted by Quizzical

Scenario 1:  It's clear that I'm going to lose a game.  On my last turn, I saw that my opponent had enough on the board to kill me on his next turn.  I looked through my cards and found that I couldn't stop it.  I end my turn and all my opponent has to do is have a single minion already on the board attack my hero and that ends the game.

Some people will do the polite thing:  kill me to promptly end the game so that we can both get the reward for playing and move on.  But a large fraction won't.  Some will sit there and think for a while, play three cards, buff minions, heal his own hero, kill my last minion (which isn't a taunt), and finally get around to killing my hero after using the bulk of the time allowed for his turn.

Why do people do this?

To be clear, I'm not talking about situations where my opponent needs to play a few cards, clear my taunt minions, buff his own minions, or whatever to have a complicated last turn to win the game.  I can understand why it takes a while to think about that.  But when all it takes is this minion attacks my hero with no secrets on the board and the game is 100% guaranteed to end with no further actions?  I don't understand taking 40 seconds for a turn to do 5 other moves before ending it.

-----

Scenario 2:  It's clear that I'm going to win a game.  I have it set up so that I have enough on the board to end the game on my next turn unless my opponent can do something to defend against it (kill minions, drop a taunt, self-heal, etc.).  My opponent sees this, looks through his hand, and realizes that he's lost.

Some people will do the polite thing:  end his turn, let me kill him, and we both get the reward for playing and move on.  But an awful lot of people will decide to concede the match immediately instead.  Letting the match last another 5 seconds would increase the experience rewards for both of us.

This one, I'm a little more sympathetic to.  Some people may not care about experience; from the number of non-golden basic cards they're using, it's pretty obvious that they haven't hit the experience cap yet.  But if you don't care about golden cards, so be it.  And someone might reasonably worry that scenario #1 will play out, as seems to happen a lot.  But I still think it's annoying.

And these are just games that frustrate those players, they are like that in real life too, imagine what they do there when things don't go their way.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13808

 
OP  4/10/14 9:49:18 PM#14
Originally posted by Homitu

According to the most convincing sources I could find (and it should be noted that none of them are 100% definitive), EXP is almost exclusively a function of how many actions a player performs.  So if your metric for what constitutes "good manners" is simply that which nets both players the most EXP, as you seem to imply here, then you should also be ok with players who take all those extra actions before killing you, even if they could have killed you with a single minion attack.  They might not net you any more EXP, but they'll give the winning player some well-deserved extra EXP.  

You do raise a good point that I hadn't considered:  the number of turns that a game lasts is pretty strongly correlated with the number of actions that you take, the number of cards that you play, the number of minions killed, and so forth.  That makes it hard to distinguish between those and other, similar factors, especially with Blizzard hiding the exact numbers from us.

  Semiel

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/04
Posts: 89

4/14/14 10:02:09 AM#15

Another possibility is people prolonging a game to fulfill quest requirements...

  Mors.Magne

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1432

4/14/14 12:25:58 PM#16
Originally posted by Semiel

Another possibility is people prolonging a game to fulfill quest requirements...

 

Yes, that's true. Yesterday, I had to cast 40 spells.

  Badaboom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2401

4/14/14 6:01:01 PM#17
If I'm about to lose and give you the chance to kill me, and you start casting shit for overkill, then I simply concede and move on.
  Yoottos'Horg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/04
Posts: 270

4/14/14 6:54:53 PM#18

I don't really mind a player buffing, healing, wiping the board, then going in for the final kill. It GENERALLY doesn't take too much longer for a player to do this (I'll throw out a SWAG and say an average of 8 seconds).

 

What pisses me off to no end are players who...take...all...of...the...aloted...time...during the first 1-3 crystals. I mean c'mon! You only have so many variations and that's assuming you're hand is full of 1-3 crystal cards. I cannot conceive of a valid reason to sit there and ponder playing a Knife Juggler, or a Gollum, or a secret for, what, 60 seconds! I usually spam the greeting or threaten emote when they do this. I never thought a TCG would make me nerd rage but people who do this definitely bring out the worst in me.

If you got nothing else out of this thread at least you got to see attractive women in bikinis.

  Mors.Magne

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1432

4/15/14 6:15:32 AM#19
Originally posted by Yoottos'Horg

I don't really mind a player buffing, healing, wiping the board, then going in for the final kill. It GENERALLY doesn't take too much longer for a player to do this (I'll throw out a SWAG and say an average of 8 seconds).

 

What pisses me off to no end are players who...take...all...of...the...aloted...time...during the first 1-3 crystals. I mean c'mon! You only have so many variations and that's assuming you're hand is full of 1-3 crystal cards. I cannot conceive of a valid reason to sit there and ponder playing a Knife Juggler, or a Gollum, or a secret for, what, 60 seconds! I usually spam the greeting or threaten emote when they do this. I never thought a TCG would make me nerd rage but people who do this definitely bring out the worst in me.

 

Yes, I know what you mean. The first play in Hearthstone is like the first few moves in most chess games - they are automatic openers and can usually be done in seconds.

 

I can only presume that people who delay at this stage are either beginners or having a conversation with somebody etc.

  eddieg50

Elite Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 1548

4/15/14 6:23:32 PM#20
Tell you the truth I did not know there was experience to be had , of course I have yet to get below lvl 15. One thing I find annoying is when someone makes a good play and they come out with "sorry"
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