Trending Games | Darkest Dungeon | Elder Scrolls Online | ArcheAge | Trove

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,772,503 Users Online:0
Games:720  Posts:6,187,434
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Comparing MMO earnings for major free-to-play titles.

2 Pages « 1 2 Search
34 posts found
  Veldekar

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/29/08
Posts: 213

4/11/14 8:27:36 PM#21
Originally posted by Pemmin
Originally posted by Veldekar
Originally posted by Pemmin

Interesting data.

 

if we take the number unique log ins + revenue and convert for  generic 15 dollar subscription equivalency

basically:

"shown: average dollar amount spent by a player in the last twelve months" <---taken from the graph grey text

WoT: $4.51 dollars per person per year,  9.1 million unique log ins per month

LoL: $1.32 dollars per person per year,  58.5 million unique log ins per moth

WoT:  4.51/12 *(9.1)  = $3.42 million per month in net revenue

LoL: 1.32/12* (58.5) = $6.44 million per month in net revenue

 

next lets see what number of subscriptions these games would need in order to have an equivalent revenue as a subscription based game.

sub = $15 per month per person

3.42 million dollars per month /15 dollars per person per month =  228k subs

6.44 million dollars per month/ 15 dollars per person per month =  429k subs

Note these numbers wouldn't reflect Net revenue but gross so we can assume that an additional percentage of subs is need to meet the net values.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what this data tells me is that 500k sub number the developers/publishers throw around for p2p to be profitable might ACTUALLY BE A THING.

 

As for the p2p versis f2p which is the better model arguement.....

the graph really doesn't tell anything

There are too many factors such as cross game log ins, disparity in how the fan bases of the sub genres spend money, development costs variations based on sub genre, is gw2 counting box sales in their value, the overall value of fun provided by model, etc

 

It's actually 4.51 and 1.32 per Month, not year, if you read the part under the graph in the link...

its net revenue per year

"shown: average dollar amount spent by a player in the last twelve months" is a direct quote from the the grey box under the graph. basically march 2013 to march 2014

Right. I misunderstood the part where it said "...based on monthly transactions..." My bad...

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4694

GW2 socialist.

4/11/14 8:31:04 PM#22
Originally posted by Pemmin

As for the p2p versis f2p which is the better model arguement.....

the graph really doesn't tell anything

It doesn't need to, the only thing that we need to see is all the p2p games going f2p.  They would NOT be doing that if their p2p model was raking in the cash.  I don't need a graph to see where the real money is coming in and neither do you.

  Pemmin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/17/14
Posts: 92

4/11/14 8:41:03 PM#23
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Pemmin

As for the p2p versis f2p which is the better model argument.....

the graph really doesn't tell anything

It doesn't need to, the only thing that we need to see is all the p2p games going f2p.  They would NOT be doing that if their p2p model was raking in the cash.  I don't need a graph to see where the real money is coming in and neither do you.

absolutely agree.

people tend to infer broad sweeping things on this site, and i was just making a point that their is no value for said argument from this graph. also i had to throw that cheap shot at gw2 somewhere in my post.

  Helleri

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 724

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”- Henry Ford

4/12/14 12:24:23 AM#24
Originally posted by Pemmin

"shown: average dollar amount spent by a player in the last twelve months" <---taken from the graph grey text

Sorry to grab just one little snippet of it. But, when you said that specifically...I realized how terrible that graph is. And, I don't mean the information it presents us with. But, the way it's presented. It is basically an image of text...that they could have just represented with text, hehe. No colored bars, curve, or wheel. There doesn't even seem to be an alternate for text based browsers or if the image fails for some reason that describes what should there...which again could all be in text to begin with. Just saying. That is a really odd and kind of funny choice they made.

Qualifiers for failing to deliver on story (in a supposedly story driven MMORPG):
If my character starts out ship wrecked on a beach.
If my character has amnesia; But, is also somehow the chosen one.
If my character has a place of origin that they will likely never set foot in until mid-high level.

  Hokie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/11/04
Posts: 1019

Hey Devs, just so you know. The more you give us to play with, the more we play.

4/12/14 12:47:02 AM#25
Originally posted by Sk1ppeR

About one and two, any P2P MMO that is NOT WoW and has no free option (E.g. SWTOR) WILL tank hard. Just look at the uproar for the ESO's imperial race bullshit. I think it hurt the game more than it did help

About three, are you implying that the developers of F2P games are not working once the game is released? Because that's stupid and biased opinion that can't be further than the truth. 

4) EVE is really a bad example for P2P game and WoW is the default game of many people and you see that WoW's numbers diminish. No game can ever do what WoW did. I mean sure, League of Legends has more users and is probably making higher revenues but its another genre. 

5) Every MMO developer has to work hard to retain paying customers, what is your point? Do you think ESO or any other P2P MMO could retain subs without introducing content? From the looks of it TESO is having bumpier launch than SWTOR and is just about the same game, with decent PvP. It will convert in year or two. Would it be F2P crap then or you will whiteknight it hell? 

Okay. You win btw, and youre 100% right.

 

 

(just so you know those were talking points, not arguing points)

"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  Hokie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/11/04
Posts: 1019

Hey Devs, just so you know. The more you give us to play with, the more we play.

4/12/14 12:56:11 AM#26
Originally posted by Sukiyaki
Originally posted by Hokie

I think they mean MMO as in MMOG, Massive Multiplayer Online Game, but even MMO is just a shorted version of MMORPG.

So is that average revenue per player per month?

 

If so, seems to me having 100k or 800k or 1.2M people paying a $14.99 subscription is still better, along with supplementing  that with vanity sales.

I like to see what WoW or SWtOR average is per subscriber. Hell I'd like to see what SWtOR is per user subscriber and F2P. I bet either of those are pretty impressive.

WoWs ARPPU fluctuates between $8 and $10 including boxsales and cashshop depending on expansion sales or the regular half year long content drought before them. WoWs ARPU accounting in all the free trial player should be much lower.

Finally the are just the usual poor estimates by Superfail. Going by these and their recent 2013 sales estimates Tencent would need far over 220 Million "monthly player (active accounts)" on top of all their Crossfire and LoL accounts, to reach their official online game sales. Either they are hiding some dozen super successful title from us of Superfail just failed again double checking their estimates against some real numbers.

I'd like to know how you came up with those numbers, of $8 to $10 including all the amenities that Bliz charges that I mentioned and on top of the $15 sub price? Not saying youre wrong since we're all dealing with speculation. But could you explain your logic?

 

And I thought about trail players. They cant be included for or against the ARPU. Yes, they are playing the game free, but not the whole game, at some point they have to decide to either become a subscriber or to re-roll a new toon and play just levels 1 thru 20.

 

"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  Hokie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/11/04
Posts: 1019

Hey Devs, just so you know. The more you give us to play with, the more we play.

4/12/14 1:04:31 AM#27
Originally posted by nbtscan
Originally posted by Hokie

If so, seems to me having 100k or 800k or 1.2M people paying a $14.99 subscription is still better, along with supplementing  that with vanity sales.

I think this goes without saying since most games try to launch P2P but fail to meet expectations so convert to F2P so they can cut development costs to reduce overhead.  With a constant, consistent money stream you can develop regular content updates.  When you have a model that has a wildly unpredictable amount of income every month, your development platform is designing services and items that people will want to buy and content hits the back burner until you have enough in your budget to put towards that.

A lot of publishers going forward are just going to make their game with F2P in mind from the start because they know they don't have the pockets to fund some 50M game.

Nothing wrong with that for the publisher, it is smart business.

I dont particularly like it though.

"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  Hokie

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/11/04
Posts: 1019

Hey Devs, just so you know. The more you give us to play with, the more we play.

4/12/14 1:15:15 AM#28
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by nbtscan
Originally posted by Hokie

If so, seems to me having 100k or 800k or 1.2M people paying a $14.99 subscription is still better, along with supplementing  that with vanity sales.

I think this goes without saying since most games try to launch P2P but fail to meet expectations so convert to F2P so they can cut development costs to reduce overhead.  With a constant, consistent money stream you can develop regular content updates.  When you have a model that has a wildly unpredictable amount of income every month, your development platform is designing services and items that people will want to buy and content hits the back burner until you have enough in your budget to put towards that.

A lot of publishers going forward are just going to make their game with F2P in mind from the start because they know they don't have the pockets to fund some 50M game.

If the game is built right and the payment model is integrated well (you would be surprised how many people are willing to bypass grind and how few are willing to buy power) then the amount isn't wildly unpredictable as you claim but indeed may in fact be more than what would be possible with a sub. Is this nickle and dime-ing the customer/player? If there is no pay to win and the only thing the player is bypassing is a time investment and maybe some vanity items then no, you can always choose to grind or to pay granted this has to be balanced just right so there is no forcing to pay to skip impossible grind or use the World of Tanks method: 50% regular - 100% premium, same destination different speed.

 

F2P is the future but right now is the time when it is maturing out of the freemium/p2w/endless trial disguised as f2p buillshit the old guard publishers/developers are trying to peddle and moving towards a system which you , as a player, feel no need to pay to have fun or do so because you gain fun little vanity extras (anything from visual only item effects to character haircuts to customized tabards for your armor and anything in between) which cost 0.5-1 USD a pop and which you could do perfectly without if you so chose (this isn't nickle and dime tactics and vanity extras do not detract almost anything from development).

Cant say I personally feel youre right about F2P being the future. Cant say your wrong either, because I see it being a better profit model for the publisher, but not the best revenue generator. I still think thats in subscriptions.

Then maybe its an the dual model like you mentioned, much like PlanetSide 2 uses.

 

I think ESO is going to be a real tipping point in the whole F2P vs Sub argument. I know SWtOR was and it tipped the scales more towards the F2P side. Yet they are converting F2P players into subscribers all the time, and are very successful at it too. So is PlanetSide 2 btw, I think they have a decent conversion rate.

That may be the future. Seems like, at least for the publisher, the best of both models.

"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2659

4/12/14 3:18:19 AM#29
Originally posted by Hokie
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by nbtscan
Originally posted by Hokie

If so, seems to me having 100k or 800k or 1.2M people paying a $14.99 subscription is still better, along with supplementing  that with vanity sales.

I think this goes without saying since most games try to launch P2P but fail to meet expectations so convert to F2P so they can cut development costs to reduce overhead.  With a constant, consistent money stream you can develop regular content updates.  When you have a model that has a wildly unpredictable amount of income every month, your development platform is designing services and items that people will want to buy and content hits the back burner until you have enough in your budget to put towards that.

A lot of publishers going forward are just going to make their game with F2P in mind from the start because they know they don't have the pockets to fund some 50M game.

If the game is built right and the payment model is integrated well (you would be surprised how many people are willing to bypass grind and how few are willing to buy power) then the amount isn't wildly unpredictable as you claim but indeed may in fact be more than what would be possible with a sub. Is this nickle and dime-ing the customer/player? If there is no pay to win and the only thing the player is bypassing is a time investment and maybe some vanity items then no, you can always choose to grind or to pay granted this has to be balanced just right so there is no forcing to pay to skip impossible grind or use the World of Tanks method: 50% regular - 100% premium, same destination different speed.

 

F2P is the future but right now is the time when it is maturing out of the freemium/p2w/endless trial disguised as f2p buillshit the old guard publishers/developers are trying to peddle and moving towards a system which you , as a player, feel no need to pay to have fun or do so because you gain fun little vanity extras (anything from visual only item effects to character haircuts to customized tabards for your armor and anything in between) which cost 0.5-1 USD a pop and which you could do perfectly without if you so chose (this isn't nickle and dime tactics and vanity extras do not detract almost anything from development).

Cant say I personally feel youre right about F2P being the future. Cant say your wrong either, because I see it being a better profit model for the publisher, but not the best revenue generator. I still think thats in subscriptions.

Then maybe its an the dual model like you mentioned, much like PlanetSide 2 uses.

 

I think ESO is going to be a real tipping point in the whole F2P vs Sub argument. I know SWtOR was and it tipped the scales more towards the F2P side. Yet they are converting F2P players into subscribers all the time, and are very successful at it too. So is PlanetSide 2 btw, I think they have a decent conversion rate.

That may be the future. Seems like, at least for the publisher, the best of both models.

Not really because you will always have a large group of players that will see it as a challenge, myself included, and will do without the sub if it is only a straight downgrade in xp and in-game money earned. If it is gating access to content I straight up won't play (see: Mortal Online, Wurm Online, D&DO, etc,etc). Do note I said I not the whole group as some may go either way.

And SWtOR's initial model was a idiotic decision on the part of EA because as it stands the freemium model of the game, just D&DO, is offering enough of a taste and a incentive to want to buy expansions to see more at the very least. If they were to relax their idiotic constraints on F2P players (the hotbar thing, locked character slots, etc) it would really boom as a model similar to what GW1 had sans the initial box price.

 

That said my belief is and always will be that properly done F2P beat properly done P2P simply on the basis of more players = more interactions (good and bad ) = bigger community = bigger game = more people joining on friends advice, etc,etc, it has a lower threshold to snowball like WoW did initially and as you can see with games like LoL, WoT and now Warthunder the snowballs happen pretty frequently with good solid games.

  Shaigh

Elite Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 220

4/12/14 3:31:02 AM#30
Originally posted by Pemmin
Originally posted by Veldekar
Originally posted by Pemmin

Interesting data.

 

if we take the number unique log ins + revenue and convert for  generic 15 dollar subscription equivalency

basically:

"shown: average dollar amount spent by a player in the last twelve months" <---taken from the graph grey text

WoT: $4.51 dollars per person per year,  9.1 million unique log ins per month

LoL: $1.32 dollars per person per year,  58.5 million unique log ins per moth

WoT:  4.51/12 *(9.1)  = $3.42 million per month in net revenue

LoL: 1.32/12* (58.5) = $6.44 million per month in net revenue

 

next lets see what number of subscriptions these games would need in order to have an equivalent revenue as a subscription based game.

sub = $15 per month per person

3.42 million dollars per month /15 dollars per person per month =  228k subs

6.44 million dollars per month/ 15 dollars per person per month =  429k subs

Note these numbers wouldn't reflect Net revenue but gross so we can assume that an additional percentage of subs is need to meet the net values.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what this data tells me is that 500k sub number the developers/publishers throw around for p2p to be profitable might ACTUALLY BE A THING.

 

As for the p2p versis f2p which is the better model arguement.....

the graph really doesn't tell anything

There are too many factors such as cross game log ins, disparity in how the fan bases of the sub genres spend money, development costs variations based on sub genre, is gw2 counting box sales in their value, the overall value of fun provided by model, etc

 

It's actually 4.51 and 1.32 per Month, not year, if you read the part under the graph in the link...

its net revenue per year

"shown: average dollar amount spent by a player in the last twelve months" is a direct quote from the the grey box under the graph. basically march 2013 to march 2014

Its the monthly average per user based on data collected over the last 12 months. "There’s World of Tanks, which has a monthly active user base of around 9.1 million and makes $4.51 per month per user. "

  sempiternal

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/06
Posts: 1091

4/12/14 3:48:25 AM#31
That's a very interesting article. I didn't realize WoT had 9.1 million active players!
  Sukiyaki

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 1288

4/12/14 3:55:49 AM#32
Originally posted by Pemmin
Originally posted by Veldeka

It's actually 4.51 and 1.32 per Month, not year, if you read the part under the graph in the link...

its net revenue per year

"shown: average dollar amount spent by a player in the last twelve months" is a direct quote from the the grey box under the graph. basically march 2013 to march 2014

1. Its the estimated average monthly revenue/amount spend by measure (estimates) over the past 12 months. They used their anual revenue estimates divided them by twelve months and then divided it by estimated player numbers. Open the link and read the entire annoying textblock under the shiney graph and two liner caption. They didn't explain it further because its common knowledge for the target audience of their reports. Just look at the fuggin math.

"With an average revenue per user of $1.58, mammoth earner Crossfire, which generated over a billion in revenue last year, clearly relies on attracting a large crowd. The game has well over 50 million monthly active players."

50M * 1.58 are not over 1B.  50M * 1.58 * 12 months are.

2. They are global ARPU rates. A completely different matter than Western ARPPU rates. Not even WoW with all its regular expansion sales makes 15$ net nor gross revenue per month in the prior context.

Understanding your facts comes before the pseudo math.

  Sukiyaki

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 1288

4/12/14 4:30:00 AM#33
Originally posted by Hokie

I'd like to know how you came up with those numbers, of $8 to $10 including all the amenities that Bliz charges that I mentioned and on top of the $15 sub price? Not saying youre wrong since we're all dealing with speculation. But could you explain your logic?

 

And I thought about trail players. They cant be included for or against the ARPU. Yes, they are playing the game free, but not the whole game, at some point they have to decide to either become a subscriber or to re-roll a new toon and play just levels 1 thru 20.

 

1. The numbers by Superdata all are based on assumption that "amount spent" = "Net revenue" and they keep jumping calling it either or another. Which of course is grossly wrong, but then the entire topic could be throw into the trashbin. ARPU in the industry are always is reported in "net revenue" stream not "amount spent".

The stats are all based of global figures. WoW is not sold for 15$/month in around half the globe and expansions are free to half their userbase as well.

What Blizzard calls subscriber by their definition equals basically the definition of "active paying user" like its commonly used in the MMO industry.

So in respect of all  that its a plain Quarterly Net Revenue / Announced Subs / 3 calculation to get the ARPPU, in no respect of reseller margins or royalty margins, just like the numbers we are handling from the stats.

2. Of course trial player  must be included, it doesnt matter whether they play just part of the game. Everyone just trying the F2P game is included into their ARPU rates as well, they simply dont seperate trial, whether he play 1 hour or never unlocked some content packages or special status subscriptions. If you don't you are speaking about ARPPU not ARPU. Then you have to compare it to F2P ARPPU rates which are of course higher too.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

4/12/14 3:33:00 PM#34
Originally posted by sempiternal
That's a very interesting article. I didn't realize WoT had 9.1 million active players!

Yeh .. many games have more players than WoW now.

2 Pages « 1 2 Search