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General Discussion  » No in-game AH; Zeni suggests third-party source

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117 posts found
  calibek

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/08/05
Posts: 156

4/11/14 10:54:56 AM#81
I love the no in-game auction house situation. It reminds me of UO back in the day where if you wanted something there was a UO Auction site you went to or posted on Tradespot. Keeps things very interesting and the market constantly fluctuating. I hope they never add an auction house to the game.

  rodarin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 425

4/11/14 12:18:45 PM#82

They didnt add an AH because they probably didnt know how. They cant even run a banking mechanic hw the hell they going ot develop and run an AH mechanic with all those moving parts?

 

These guys are over their heads with an MMO. Its pretty obvious at this point. Theyre a solo/console player company the fact that a lot of the problems are directly related to MMO specific things speaks volumes,as  does not having an AH. That just saved people from another issue that didnt work in the game.

  Horusra

Elite Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2182

4/11/14 12:22:08 PM#83
No world AH makes guilds more important and mean sonething. You can make a guild with your 10 friends, but that guild does not have access to a working AH. Also you can join 5 guilds...find a trading one or build up you guilds AH by getting peopke involved. Leave guilds with stupid taxes.
  kakasaki

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/06
Posts: 1261

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

4/11/14 12:47:16 PM#84

I find it funny that the same people who are lambasting ESO for not having a global AH are the same people who in other threads are constantly complaining how every MMO released is a copy of WoW and how no one tried anything new… Hilarious actually.

Regardless, I like not having a global AH. It has encouraged me to be a bit more social (something I had almost forgotten how to do in modern MMOs) and actually talk to people. My personal experience hasn’t been negative regarding massive trade spam on chat but I guess it could be the time of day I play. I have joined two large trading guilds and have had no problem selling items and making $$$. I love crafting so making items and selling them is half of my fun playing an MMO. I agree that the bank guild store interface sucks arse and I am hoping the at least add a search by name function when browsing for goods.

As far as what one poster mentioned as being regarded or knows as the best trader/crafter in a game… Reminds me of my rose-colored-glasses-days in Shadowbane. There was no global AH in that game either. You went to one of the “safe” cities and hawked your wares or you built a “neutral” trading town and have people from all parts of the server come to your town to buy/sell goods (minus a small “transaction fee” charged by the store owner). This of course attracted thieves to the town who would prowl the edges hoping to kill a lone target laden with goods to sell or attracting the ire of a powerful guild who would be hell-bent in burning your town to the ground… In summary, creating opportunities for interaction and engagement by the community…

Just my 2 cents.

A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  KirinRahl

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/04
Posts: 154

4/11/14 12:52:15 PM#85

http://www.raphkoster.com/2012/03/20/do-auction-houses-suck/

 

Auction Houses are good for some things and bad for other things.

 

Broadly, they're good for players who don't give a great big fuck and would rather accrue items to the point where they no longer have to look for items, despite the fact that that means the game is functionally over.

 

They're bad for players who are interested in an active, healthy economy, wherein not only the largest possible suppliers of a given item (or those who choose to offer it for the cheapest) are able to functionally participate in the market.  On  World of Warcraft, if you want to dominate a certain type of material on your shard, you literally buy all of it and post it 10G higher; lots of folks I've known have had the gold and the chops to do that at times when it would benefit them the most.

 

There's not a lot of game there, though, as compared to a game in which crafting is a real thing that matters a lot.  ESO, although they do not have quite the same depth of crafting content as the aforementioned sci-fi-game-which-is-not-EVE, seem to be putting together a system in which humans with good crafting skills can crank out an item -precisely as good- as the crazy bullshit that drops from endgame instances.

 

So, y'know.  There are a lot of arguments both for and against.  I err on the side of the used bookstore rather than on the side of Amazon... although I surely do buy piles of ebooks from Amazon, I always go and get my favorites in hardback from Powell's, so I can have them on my shelf.

  Whitebeards

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 750

4/11/14 12:53:16 PM#86
Originally posted by kakasaki

I find it funny that the same people who are lambasting ESO for not having a global AH are the same people who in other threads are constantly complaining how every MMO released is a copy of WoW and how no one tried anything new… Hilarious actually.

Regardless, I like not having a global AH. It has encouraged me to be a bit more social (something I had almost forgotten how to do in modern MMOs) and actually talk to people. My personal experience hasn’t been negative regarding massive trade spam on chat but I guess it could be the time of day I play. I have joined two large trading guilds and have had no problem selling items and making $$$. I love crafting so making items and selling them is half of my fun playing an MMO. I agree that the bank guild store interface sucks arse and I am hoping the at least add a search by name function when browsing for goods.

As far as what one poster mentioned as being regarded or knows as the best trader/crafter in a game… Reminds me of my rose-colored-glasses-days in Shadowbane. There was no global AH in that game either. You went to one of the “safe” cities and hawked your wares or you built a “neutral” trading town and have people from all parts of the server come to your town to buy/sell goods (minus a small “transaction fee” charged by the store owner). This of course attracted thieves to the town who would prowl the edges hoping to kill a lone target laden with goods to sell or attracting the ire of a powerful guild who would be hell-bent in burning your town to the ground… In summary, creating opportunities for interaction and engagement by the community…

Just my 2 cents.

Not this argument again please. Removing AH is not doing something new. New would be to make changes to way AH works not completely get rid of it.

  Horusra

Elite Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2182

4/11/14 12:55:59 PM#87
They did change the way AH's work. They are guild centric. ..that is new.
  Whitebeards

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 750

4/11/14 12:59:38 PM#88
Originally posted by Horusra
They did change the way AH's work. They are guild centric. ..that is new.

I was talking about global AH. Removing something isn't new. Reminds me of GW2 where fans were claiming that eliminating the features = new.

  Horusra

Elite Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2182

4/11/14 1:04:02 PM#89
But they changed the functions of AH to make guilds more important. Removing global AH for guild AH is something new. Removing feature to replace with new feature = new.
  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5210

4/11/14 1:26:59 PM#90
Originally posted by Horusra
They did change the way AH's work. They are guild centric. ..that is new.

its the equivalent of cutting an orange in half and claiming its better than having a whole one, and charging you the same price for it. less really isn't more

  Mouls

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/08
Posts: 84

4/11/14 1:30:50 PM#91
Originally posted by naami
Originally posted by Elikal

*headdesk*  If this is indeed an official response... it just lowers my already low esteem for ZoS. The need to rely on out of game sources for ingame transactions whatsoever is one of the most absurd moves. So they recognize the issue but suggest an outside website as crutch?

Doh. >.<

 

Quote (from ZoS):

"You don't necessarily want to do a global auction house for a game with one giant server because that generally leads to all the best gear being available at very, very cheap prices. A lot of times that can trivialize the game. You cannot have a healthy economy when there are no restrictions on getting the best stuff in the game."

 

This is pure Communism. The idea to control and limit free market to "protect" some assumed weak link, is protectionism and just nothing but hardcore communistic market ideology. I say, let free market balance things out! Governmental protected market, in this case ZoS being the government, has never been good for the economy. Let supply and demand, the rules of free market balance itself out. That's the best for everyone in the long run. Allow everyone to sell anything anytime without hindrances.

This is a game not a real life economic situation. In real life there are finite resources. In a game there are infinite resources. If there was a global auction then everything related to crafting and upgrades would become trivial. They might as well start you off with max crafting and gear on a new character. Unless they made everything more rare but then that would make the game unfun for normal people. 

I hope the developers don't listen to the players again and add it. They are really dumb sometimes.

There are infinite gold sink too, money spent in reparing and buying stuff from npc and the AH tax will never reach any players hand this is how you control inflation in MMO at least util someone start to dupe gold.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15527

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

4/11/14 1:37:12 PM#92
Originally posted by askdaboss
Originally posted by Xasapis
Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp

Trivialize. That is a word Ive been using to describe what people who want more inventory space and a generic auction hall want to do to the game. The economy IS a feature and a mechanic in the game, especially big at max level when it becomes content for a pretty significant portion of the player base. I completely agree with the devs, in an auction hall the best of the best is far too readily available, which isnt good for the crafters, and means we have more of "every player in the exact same equipment" thing that happens in every MMO that ESO has managed to avoid through their game mechanics.

Fuck people that want to make this like every other theme park.

It is indeed true that  ESO lacks basic functionality and solutions that were introduced and implemented in the roughly two decades history of mmorpgs. The fun part is reading fanboy comments such as the above claiming that the lack of those features is somehow an "improvement".

This is all the more ridiculous when from Zenimax Online own (implied) admission the need for an AH is acknowledged and understood, and their current answer is to propose to people to go to a third party website.

They didn't answer that there is no need for an AH, or hated on marketplaces or dissuaded people from going to marketplaces in order to benefit from the full, unstained ESO experience. Nope. They said "Looking to buy, sell, and trade in-game goods and services in #ESO? Then @TesoElite's new marketplace is for you."

 

If one of the fanboys in denial could clarify their "stance" on the matter that would help my understanding, but it seems to me that the fanboys haven't been listening attentively enough to the voice of their guru, and that they instead should be flocking to create their account on TesoElite as their master told them to do. NOW!

Ah!! people have a different opinion on how trade should be handled, we must face them with ridicule then call them names, that will promote some real change in ESO!!!!!

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1227

4/11/14 3:07:15 PM#93

Those suggesting that people just go and "advertise" in chat etc. never played EQ1. a single servers worth of people - so 3,000 max - was time consuming and/or a nightmare depending on your point of view. And when I say time consuming I am talking hours not minutes.

I find it hard to believe that Zenimax couldn't produce an AH if they wanted to. That said I find it hard to understand why the a guild AH is so limited. 

The only thing I can think of is that there was some discussion over how a campaign may / may not work. A discussion about what might give one side an "unfair" advantage. Campaign" AHs? Being able to join just one guild / have just one guild AH available? 

I assume they came up with a design and then coded it. To now be suggesting that players circumvent that design - especially in light of what they said about add-ons - seems very odd.

AHs were created because the demand was there from the players. Not all but the vast number of players. The ones that got fed up of spending hours trying to get the drop they needed; fed up of spending hours trying to sell a few items. The ones who wanted to do other stuff instead - quests, PvP or crafting even! 

I think it is a dangerous path to be treading.

  Timzilla

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 419

4/11/14 3:39:26 PM#94
Mobs drop all the gear you'll need for the grind to 60. Then just be in the right guilds when you'er 50. I think this is an improvement on AH culture.
  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3732

RIP City of Heroes!

4/11/14 3:45:30 PM#95

This is why we can't have great games.  Lack a feature that wow has and you get people crying for the missing wow feature.  The lack of AH adds game play value.  Sure at a cost the self-important entitled fok who can't be held beyond instant gratification that an auction house brings.  It is all your fault.

I applaud ESO for choosing to not add an AH.

  Vynt

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 596

4/11/14 4:04:32 PM#96
Originally posted by Roguewiz

Honestly, they need to create a "bazaar" zone where you can sell your goods (and only sell your goods).  This will reduce the spam in the other zones and give players an area to buy/sell, but still allow the "face to face" (yea, I know...face to face in a game??) interface some people like

Or

  1. Put in player housing and allow player merchants
  2. Setup a "market board"
  3. Allow players to browse goods.
  4. Make them run to the home of the player, no matter where it is.
 
Now, my opinion.
 
There is nothing inherently wrong with Auction Houses.  An AH does not make the game a themepark.  What makes the game a themepark is quest hubs.  If I wanted to talk with people in-game, I'd group with them or join a guild.  I don't really care to interface with them for buying and selling.  Especially considering that there is no guarantee that the item I need will be sold in chat at the time I'm on.  With an AH, I have a better chance of getting it.
 
Just saying...

I was so thankful when they put the bazaar in EQ with luclin expansion. Made things so much better. I like global AHs, but really like the bazaar too. It could ease some of the issues with an AH having too many items.

If in an AH people are selling 100 of an item, and price keeps getting lower and lower, in the bazaar, those 100 people wouldn't all be selling at same time, maybe 15 since they would have to be on and in the bazaar zone. It made pricing more balanced, and with plenty of items still for sale. People still even advertised when not in bazaar, so there was still some communication. Heck, I remember even giving a tell to someone in bazaar and asking if they would take half cash and an item, so was still able to wheel and deal, unlike in the AH.

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3732

RIP City of Heroes!

4/11/14 4:15:44 PM#97
Originally posted by Xasapis
Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp

Trivialize. That is a word Ive been using to describe what people who want more inventory space and a generic auction hall want to do to the game. The economy IS a feature and a mechanic in the game, especially big at max level when it becomes content for a pretty significant portion of the player base. I completely agree with the devs, in an auction hall the best of the best is far too readily available, which isnt good for the crafters, and means we have more of "every player in the exact same equipment" thing that happens in every MMO that ESO has managed to avoid through their game mechanics.

Fuck people that want to make this like every other theme park.

It is indeed true that  ESO lacks basic functionality and solutions that were introduced and implemented in the roughly two decades history of mmorpgs. The fun part is reading fanboy comments such as the above claiming that the lack of those features is somehow an "improvement".

There it is...The good old mmorpg tradition argument.   I hope you don't have any posts on this website asking for devs to do something new/different/original because that would be hypocritical.    This is why we can't get game devs trying to do something different.  They just can't win with you people now can they? 

  mrBurns210

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/17/12
Posts: 58

4/11/14 4:32:34 PM#98

This was one reason why I unsubbed. An AH or player exchange imo is a must ( I do not care if it is zone based / server based  / faction based ) The guild store is a nice idea but  it just is not working for me.

The combat and crafting are just perfect. I haven't gotten to PvP yet though I have qualms with race locked factions. Personally it would have felt more Elder Scrolls if I chose which ever side I wanted to join regardless of race. Or maybe just a more player based factions (guilds and their alliances each vying to win).

The major reason I have unsubbed was because I have been left feeling like I am playing a single player game with the hassles of a mmo. I haven't felt the need to group up for a single quest.

 

Just wanted to add the audio is amazing, the sound when an Anchor event starts is just cool.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3481

4/11/14 6:49:17 PM#99

Assuming that Zenimax is telling the truth (and its not just a lame excuse, which I suspect tbh) that a global AH would destroy the ingame economy, the alternative they present is just not good enough for a new MMO. Every MMO has many players who are not interested in joining a guild or to play PVP. For those people all that is left are third party trade websites or spamming chat for hours to trade. This could be the deciding factor for people to unsub.

I also don't understand defending Zenimax's position on this. There are many possible alternatives for a global AH. Alternatives that work a lot better then what ESO currently has. Someone mentioned SWG (although assumed it was similar to ESO in this lol). SWG had systems in place that kept the trading decentralized in a way that would benefit all types of players.

Defending Zenimax in this case is just helping to kill this game imo. This is one of those situations when devs mean that fanboys can hurt a game on the long run if they defend everything.

  kakasaki

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Joined: 6/11/06
Posts: 1261

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4/11/14 6:50:08 PM#100
Originally posted by Whitebeards
Originally posted by kakasaki

I find it funny that the same people who are lambasting ESO for not having a global AH are the same people who in other threads are constantly complaining how every MMO released is a copy of WoW and how no one tried anything new… Hilarious actually.

Regardless, I like not having a global AH. It has encouraged me to be a bit more social (something I had almost forgotten how to do in modern MMOs) and actually talk to people. My personal experience hasn’t been negative regarding massive trade spam on chat but I guess it could be the time of day I play. I have joined two large trading guilds and have had no problem selling items and making $$$. I love crafting so making items and selling them is half of my fun playing an MMO. I agree that the bank guild store interface sucks arse and I am hoping the at least add a search by name function when browsing for goods.

As far as what one poster mentioned as being regarded or knows as the best trader/crafter in a game… Reminds me of my rose-colored-glasses-days in Shadowbane. There was no global AH in that game either. You went to one of the “safe” cities and hawked your wares or you built a “neutral” trading town and have people from all parts of the server come to your town to buy/sell goods (minus a small “transaction fee” charged by the store owner). This of course attracted thieves to the town who would prowl the edges hoping to kill a lone target laden with goods to sell or attracting the ire of a powerful guild who would be hell-bent in burning your town to the ground… In summary, creating opportunities for interaction and engagement by the community…

Just my 2 cents.

Not this argument again please. Removing AH is not doing something new. New would be to make changes to way AH works not completely get rid of it.

Mea culpa. I should have said done something different. Regardless, thank you for commenting on the merits and providing a counter argument to the rest of my post.... oh that's right, you didn't...

 

BTW, what else different can you do with a global AH that hasn't already been done?

A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

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