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General Discussion  » No in-game AH; Zeni suggests third-party source

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117 posts found
  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1435

4/11/14 5:33:12 AM#41
Originally posted by Sk1pper

 Do tell me how it is a nightmare with a stealthed or highly armored ship. Warping to 0m is a charm. If you don't know it, keep using autopilot and get your ship blown to pieces :) 

Also I don't know why are you guys bitching against auction houses (global ones). You are buying an item that can either be used or soulbound. If you don't see the logic there then I have bad news for you.

If I'm whining it's just that I know how easy it's going to be to make cash in a game that uses a global AH. And cash becoming useless.

I'd just like a bit of difficulty in making money thats all.

  emperorwings

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/06
Posts: 1457

4/11/14 5:34:39 AM#42
Only works on a small scale due to people saying they are going to buy stuff they aren't going to or people not paying or people advertising stuff they don't have or people withdrawing their items etc.

This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  StarI

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 897

I don't like your pants.

4/11/14 5:39:08 AM#43
Originally posted by immodium

I like this system. I also like EvEs system. Yes it's global but you do have to pump a fair few hours of training to actually buy from anywhere. You can see where stuff is but you have to at least travel to get it, and the good stuff is in zero sec so getting at that could be a nightmare.

 

 

EvE doesn't have global AH system. The best example (which everyone knows) of global AH is WoW. Unless you want to say EvE has same trading system as WoW.... in which case I'd advice you to stop smoking whatever you smoke, it's never too late.

  Anthur

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 645

4/11/14 5:40:16 AM#44

I don't have an issue with no central AH. But to use third party apps sounds silly too.

Anyway I rarely use the existing guild stores. Tax is much too high. If you want to promote trade, lower the taxes. Works in real life, works in MMOs.

  Piscore

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/27/07
Posts: 117

4/11/14 5:42:54 AM#45
Originally posted by Sector13
InB4 next ESO update removes WASD for click to move. 

+1

l2p

  StarI

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 897

I don't like your pants.

4/11/14 6:07:58 AM#46
Originally posted by Anthur

I don't have an issue with no central AH. But to use third party apps sounds silly too.

Anyway I rarely use the existing guild stores. Tax is much too high. If you want to promote trade, lower the taxes. Works in real life, works in MMOs.

On the other hand talking to people is not taxed. Neither is using a forum as a way of communication. Trading is suposed to be a social aspect. I despise how trading, like many other features, evolved into a mindless process of clicking a few buttons on your  interface window, possibly using 3rd party apps that do the searching and math instead of yourself, to increase money gains.

And essentialy globalizing the trade is a way of botting your game. Trivialize everything so much that you only need to come and look at the gold stack increasing. Just like you can set up a farming bot, you press a button and it does the work for you.

 

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5499

4/11/14 6:10:43 AM#47
We have already seen that Zenimax's game design and direction of travel are not always consistent with what is tweeted. I don't even regard them as official announcements.
  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5610

4/11/14 6:37:22 AM#48
Originally posted by StarI
Originally posted by Anthur

I don't have an issue with no central AH. But to use third party apps sounds silly too.

Anyway I rarely use the existing guild stores. Tax is much too high. If you want to promote trade, lower the taxes. Works in real life, works in MMOs.

On the other hand talking to people is not taxed. Neither is using a forum as a way of communication. Trading is suposed to be a social aspect. I despise how trading, like many other features, evolved into a mindless process of clicking a few buttons on your  interface window, possibly using 3rd party apps that do the searching and math instead of yourself, to increase money gains.

And essentialy globalizing the trade is a way of botting your game. Trivialize everything so much that you only need to come and look at the gold stack increasing. Just like you can set up a farming bot, you press a button and it does the work for you.

 

So clogging the zone chat with trade spam is an improvement in your book? As if the guild spam advertisement is not bad enough already?

 

Seriously, lets get off the fanboy horse and look at the situation objectively. And the problem objectively is that the current implementation of AH doesn't currently work properly even inside the guild implementation. Imagine how much more of a nightmare it would be if they went global.

 

It is really unfortunate that your sub-average run of the mill free to play low badget mmorpg has better (and working) trading tools compared to a AAA subscription only tittle.

  User Deleted
4/11/14 6:43:43 AM#49

It's not just having or not having an AH. Alot of items come from drops, and probably have different levels, can't be used by your class, you don't need it, etc. So, you dump it in the auction house, or anything else, to get rid of it a and make so money.

Which reminds me, does the high level VR gear have decay or gets broken or something? If the best items are hard to get but don't get destroyed, it raises their price higher, but low level gear gets cut, sicne it's 99% useless.

  makasouleater69

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/19/13
Posts: 507

4/11/14 6:45:46 AM#50
Originally posted by Knotwood

This is probably one of the only major systems I have a problem with in ESO...

 

The fees are 25%  (The Rent... Is too dam high)

The Guildstores are promoted less by Zenimax then third party websites...   (Hurts the Trade Communities by losing purpose.)

It should be higher if you ask me. As well with the respec. In games like these where nothing brakes, and every one can make everything, you have to have something get rid of the gold. 

To the OP, it def isnt in the wrong direction. Its a attempt to make people happy, since stuff that gets destroyed as you use it seems to make mmorpgs  fail. You cant have a good economy with out stuff that gets taken out of the game due to use. 

I honestly dont think it will work. All it is gonna do is make it alittle less noticeable. You can already see hundreds of bots/ gold spammers. So in months to come, gold is gonna be way over inflated. Who knows though, this might be what fixes it.

  StarI

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 897

I don't like your pants.

4/11/14 7:00:07 AM#51
Originally posted by Xasapis
Originally posted by StarI
Originally posted by Anthur

I don't have an issue with no central AH. But to use third party apps sounds silly too.

Anyway I rarely use the existing guild stores. Tax is much too high. If you want to promote trade, lower the taxes. Works in real life, works in MMOs.

On the other hand talking to people is not taxed. Neither is using a forum as a way of communication. Trading is suposed to be a social aspect. I despise how trading, like many other features, evolved into a mindless process of clicking a few buttons on your  interface window, possibly using 3rd party apps that do the searching and math instead of yourself, to increase money gains.

And essentialy globalizing the trade is a way of botting your game. Trivialize everything so much that you only need to come and look at the gold stack increasing. Just like you can set up a farming bot, you press a button and it does the work for you.

 

So clogging the zone chat with trade spam is an improvement in your book? As if the guild spam advertisement is not bad enough already?

 

Seriously, lets get off the fanboy horse and look at the situation objectively. And the problem objectively is that the current implementation of AH doesn't currently work properly even inside the guild implementation. Imagine how much more of a nightmare it would be if they went global.

 

It is really unfortunate that your sub-average run of the mill free to play low badget mmorpg has better (and working) trading tools compared to a AAA subscription only tittle.

 

A real trader will make his name and try to become a top trader. You know being social, having connections. No spamming needed. Besides I don't even know what spamming is for you? What's wrong with advertising in chat and letting people know you are in for something?

And what fanboy horse. I hardly even thought of TESO when writing those replies. To be frank I care jack shit if TESO makes it or not, it's more of  a filler game for me atm. And I am able to value something even if it doesn't have everything I -want-.

Anyway, what do you mean  by guild store not working?  I personaly tested it and sold a few items so it's working however I refuse to pay 25% for convinience so I rather sell manually.

If you simply mean the interface being bad than I totaly agree but also have no doubt it will evolve, I mean game got released 7 days ago.

  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5610

4/11/14 7:10:37 AM#52
Originally posted by StarI
....

 

A real trader will make his name and try to become a top trader. You know being social, having connections. No spamming needed. Besides I don't even know what spamming is for you? What's wrong with advertising in chat and letting people know you are in for something?

And what fanboy horse. I hardly even thought of TESO when writing those replies. To be frank I care jack shit if TESO makes it or not, it's more of  a filler game for me atm. And I am able to value something even if it doesn't have everything I -want-.

Anyway, what do you mean  by guild store not working?  I personaly tested it and sold a few items so it's working however I refuse to pay 25% for convinience so I rather sell manually.

If you simply mean the interface being bad than I totaly agree but also have no doubt it will evolve, I mean game got released 7 days ago.

Lets see ...

 

Assume 200.000 subscribers in one of the two megaservers.

Now assume 1% of them, aka, 20.000 advertise once every 2 minutes.

That would be 166 trade messages per second on the whole server. Those messages will probably won't get evenly distributed per zone (major hubs and newbie zones will see more spam). Still

Best scenario possible, out of those 166 messages, only 10 messages per second are getting spammed on your zone.

 

What do you think a sane person will do? Try to keep up with the spam or disable zone chat?

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1435

4/11/14 7:15:51 AM#53
Originally posted by StarI
Originally posted by Whitebeards
Originally posted by StarI

 

You want sandboxes? Say no to the global AH!

Hahaha!! thanks that was funny.

No AH = sandbox. lol

 

AH as such has zerro to do with a game being sandbox or not.

On the other hand THE WAY an AH is incorporated in game has everything to do with it.

If you actually want to discuss this and not just troll, than I suggest you also read the few other posts I made in this thread, I've already made some explanations regarding this.

 

But it does kill communities in games that like to play shop.

I've heard a lot about cantinas in SWG and how going to one was beneficial. To me it's like getting rid of that sort of community aspect of the game.

  thark

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/01/03
Posts: 1126

4/11/14 7:18:20 AM#54
Originally posted by jblah

I actually like this game a lot but will not subscribe due to this as an economy is a feature I would be willing to pay 14.99 per month for. Currently there is no economy for me as I have maybe 1-2 hours per weekday at best to play and will not spend it searching a horrible guild store interface (that I am forced to join to participate in the economy) or spamming zone chat in a town. This is not a fun way to spend my time.

 

So far it seems to me that gold has little use anyway other than for travel and repairs so maybe I don't need an economy anyway in this game. This just means that I will play Skyrim instead as there are no node ninjas or asshats to deal with and the game feels almost the same anyway the way I have been playing it and does not require a subscription. 

 

An auction house is a staple in MMOs and I think that deciding to go the direction they did will cause a large hit to retention as the in game economy is a huge factor that makes an MMO feel more alive. These are all just my opinions and I may be part of the few people that feel this way. Judging by the forums and the several Auction websites going up to address this issue it may be more important than some think.

Ok..But I bet you will be wrong in most of your observations ..However, I can completly understand why you are feeling and saying the things you say, because up until now this isn't how developers usually do their games, (there is a selective few) ; must common is however a global auction house , It's the Norm. So there is nothing odd in reacting the way you do :)

1. You will find stuff on your 2 hour journey if you just quest or Craft your gear, no need to search the market for it ..The market isn't for your player in that sence. Make some friends and trade things between them, make an alt and see that you will get much items to trade them for.

Also, the trading in chat, player-player is also not needed for you, It's luxury wares, that you most likely can't afford anyway, and If you feel you can afford that shiney item, well go ahead and answer the call, maybe you will make a friend or a supplyer.

And If you in some Point of your Life in game has much money , buy a much needed item in the guild auction houses(It's supposedly a luxury to obtain an item without working for it, It's suppose to be expensive) The symbol is big Guilds that has been working hard to afford setting up a Guild market. And If this bothers you, join a huge guild and you will get your share :)

2., Ninja looters and such riff/raff are thiefes in a way or they are just faster than you..There are ways to deal with it , however..

Annoying but part of Life, there will be times that you will be the first to open that chest and annoy someone else, it will even out ..eventually :)

3 A global auction house will make the game "less" alive, It will press down prices so much that any item will be free(eventually), and It will make the World silent. It will make even the best gear silly easy to obtain , unless Zenmax makes those items untradable and such things.

It's really a trade off, what do we want for our game a florishing economy or just a normal MMO with a standard auction house ?, and in the case of Mega server It certainly Changes things , so I understand the reasoning behind all this.

Also, Im fairly certain that Zenimax will be forced to make "poor choices" regarding this, so eventually you may have your global store...

 

  uidLuc1d

Novice Member

Joined: 9/06/08
Posts: 197

4/11/14 7:26:30 AM#55

Step One:  Join a mega guild.

Step Two:  Put your shit in the guild store.

Step Three:  Watch it sell instantly.

  StarI

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 897

I don't like your pants.

4/11/14 7:30:10 AM#56
Originally posted by Xasapis
Originally posted by StarI
....

 

A real trader will make his name and try to become a top trader. You know being social, having connections. No spamming needed. Besides I don't even know what spamming is for you? What's wrong with advertising in chat and letting people know you are in for something?

And what fanboy horse. I hardly even thought of TESO when writing those replies. To be frank I care jack shit if TESO makes it or not, it's more of  a filler game for me atm. And I am able to value something even if it doesn't have everything I -want-.

Anyway, what do you mean  by guild store not working?  I personaly tested it and sold a few items so it's working however I refuse to pay 25% for convinience so I rather sell manually.

If you simply mean the interface being bad than I totaly agree but also have no doubt it will evolve, I mean game got released 7 days ago.

Lets see ...

 

Assume 200.000 subscribers in one of the two megaservers.

Now assume 1% of them, aka, 20.000 advertise once every 2 minutes.

That would be 166 trade messages per second on the whole server. Those messages will probably won't get evenly distributed per zone (major hubs and newbie zones will see more spam). Still

Best scenario possible, out of those 166 messages, only 10 messages per second are getting spammed on your zone.

 

What do you think a sane person will do? Try to keep up with the spam or disable zone chat?

 

That is a lot of assumptions you did there. I can tell you this is not the current situation, chats (mark plural) are not getting spamed like that. Why I will not make assumptions but they are not. I can tell you tho from personal experience- I 've been trading just fine and yes I was trade advertising too however  once per 2 min definitely goes in the spam book if you keep at it. If I say I do it on average once per 30 min it's probably pushing and it sold me just fine.

Moreimportantly as I pointed before, a system without automated global selling yields the need for  traders. Meaning you only need to know a couple who enjoy role playing trader in a game, to effectively sell anything worthwile - no spam needed for either you or trader.

Oh and if you value zone chat and can't cope with spammers, than there's the report and ignore functions.

  eldaris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 340

4/11/14 7:44:05 AM#57


Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by Elikal *headdesk*  If this is indeed an official response... it just lowers my already low esteem for ZoS. The need to rely on out of game sources for ingame transactions whatsoever is one of the most absurd moves. So they recognize the issue but suggest an outside website as crutch? Doh. >.<   Quote (from ZoS): "You don't necessarily want to do a global auction house for a game with one giant server because that generally leads to all the best gear being available at very, very cheap prices. A lot of times that can trivialize the game. You cannot have a healthy economy when there are no restrictions on getting the best stuff in the game."   This is pure Communism. The idea to control and limit free market to "protect" some assumed weak link, is protectionism and just nothing but hardcore communistic market ideology. I say, let free market balance things out! Governmental protected market, in this case ZoS being the government, has never been good for the economy. Let supply and demand, the rules of free market balance itself out. That's the best for everyone in the long run. Allow everyone to sell anything anytime without hindrances.
Free market does not work on a global scale ...free market works good with little seperated markets... Thats why our current economical is breaking down rappidly.

 

also GW2 proofs that one huge global market kills the econnomy, and ruins a lot of the gameplay...

 

A global AH is a bad thing for mega server technollogy.

 

just get intoo three huge trading guilds, and you will be allright...


No,the problem is both irl and in game ,people like you who are upset they don't feel like a special snowflake any more when others are not living in squalor(irl)/having inferior items(in game). For that a global market/ah with no restrictions is indeed a bad thing. Beside pandering to to elitists like that, Zenimax probably wanted to limit as much as possible the amount of trade between players to force them to grind for items instead of just buying them at ah the same way they force players grind veteran ranks by doing other factions quests and calling that "a huge amount of content".
As soon they start losing subscription they will change their mind about the "benefits" of an archaic way to sell in game, most people will not pay a sub to a game which made them lose game time on forums or in game chat to try and sell trinkets.If not, the game will join the likes of warhammer and aoc in the list of mmo failures,not a suprise since it is a game made by old school mmos developers which with the exception of Turbine ,failed to create a popular mmo again.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17754

4/11/14 8:07:10 AM#58
Originally posted by Sephros
Auction Houses are lame. I like seeing trading happening in zone chat.

+1

I've actually met, made friends and grouped with people because of "actual trading".

Made me feel like the old days.

 

  Sk1ppeR

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/12
Posts: 534

4/11/14 8:07:21 AM#59
Originally posted by StarI
Originally posted by Xasapis
Originally posted by StarI
Originally posted by Anthur

I don't have an issue with no central AH. But to use third party apps sounds silly too.

Anyway I rarely use the existing guild stores. Tax is much too high. If you want to promote trade, lower the taxes. Works in real life, works in MMOs.

On the other hand talking to people is not taxed. Neither is using a forum as a way of communication. Trading is suposed to be a social aspect. I despise how trading, like many other features, evolved into a mindless process of clicking a few buttons on your  interface window, possibly using 3rd party apps that do the searching and math instead of yourself, to increase money gains.

And essentialy globalizing the trade is a way of botting your game. Trivialize everything so much that you only need to come and look at the gold stack increasing. Just like you can set up a farming bot, you press a button and it does the work for you.

 

So clogging the zone chat with trade spam is an improvement in your book? As if the guild spam advertisement is not bad enough already?

 

Seriously, lets get off the fanboy horse and look at the situation objectively. And the problem objectively is that the current implementation of AH doesn't currently work properly even inside the guild implementation. Imagine how much more of a nightmare it would be if they went global.

 

It is really unfortunate that your sub-average run of the mill free to play low badget mmorpg has better (and working) trading tools compared to a AAA subscription only tittle.

 

A real trader will make his name and try to become a top trader. You know being social, having connections. No spamming needed. Besides I don't even know what spamming is for you? What's wrong with advertising in chat and letting people know you are in for something?

And what fanboy horse. I hardly even thought of TESO when writing those replies. To be frank I care jack shit if TESO makes it or not, it's more of  a filler game for me atm. And I am able to value something even if it doesn't have everything I -want-.

Anyway, what do you mean  by guild store not working?  I personaly tested it and sold a few items so it's working however I refuse to pay 25% for convinience so I rather sell manually.

If you simply mean the interface being bad than I totaly agree but also have no doubt it will evolve, I mean game got released 7 days ago.

Idk what games have you been playing but let me tell you that after 8 years of lineage 2, which had no AH until Goddess of Destruction expansion came(and i left couple of months after), there was no such thing as a top trader or a trader with connections. Infact it was very selfish game. People caused drama over raid drops, and they still do because of the way the drops work. After playing Gw2, I want none of that. And I approve the global AH. 

 

To answer to immodium, I wouldn't say that gold in Gw2 is easy to come by.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17754

4/11/14 8:08:55 AM#60
Originally posted by uidLuc1d

Step One:  Join a mega guild.

Step Two:  Put your shit in the guild store.

Step Three:  Watch it sell instantly.

That's true you can join 5 guilds. Join a trading guild and be done with it.

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