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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » During every new MMO Launch there always seem to be a mass of people complaining about people leveling too fast. But WHY are they complaining?

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43 posts found
  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1852

4/01/14 12:38:18 PM#21

I made this post a few weeks back:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/6234713#6234713

Sums it up.

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

4/01/14 12:38:49 PM#22

Because they are jealous someone levels faster than they did.

 

/thread

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  Gormogon

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 166

4/01/14 2:40:15 PM#23

Many gamers derive their self-esteem from both their gaming accomplishments and their gaming affiliations.  Being fans of a game that is considered good makes them feel good about themselves.  People leveling quickly, as others have said, gives the impression of a game that is somehow poorly designed, and therefore is a blow to the self-esteem of these players.  Even beyond that, they feel they are now "behind," and to the extent that their gaming accomplishments and the associated prestige in the gaming community that comes with them are important to them, fast levelers are an obstacle in letting these players feel good about themselves.

 

I am not a fast leveler.  I'm an explorer, quest text reader, and completionist.  But I always get a kick how fans of a game insist, as if their entire being depends on it, that players cannot cap in X days.  There will almost always be players who will embrace that challenge and figure out how to do it.  And if that's what those particular players consider fun, I have zero problem with it.  I actually enjoy reading/watching how it was done.  Does it bother me when I'm struggling to get my hands on something that other players have that I want?  Sure.  But by and large my fun is not relative to the accomplishments of other players.  I play to enjoy the game for what it is.  Then I come to places like here and criticize it for what it is not.  :P

  mmoguy43

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2345

4/01/14 2:55:58 PM#24
Originally posted by MMOExposed

During every new MMO Launch there always seem to be a mass of people complaining about people leveling too fast. But WHY are they complaining?

 

How does the speed in which somebody else levels and play the game, have any effect on how you play the game?

You would also reach max level at some point if you keep playing,

And likely will reach max level before any other new comers join the new MMO game as well. So are they also suppose to complain about you being at max level before them as well?

 

I dont understand why this cycle continues, with people complaining about other people leveling too fast. Worry about your own play style. Stop trying to get EXP and leveling speed nerfed to ruin everybody else experience.

 

if you want slow leveling, then just level slow. Nobody forces you to not level slow if you dont want to.

Just take your own advise. Don't worry about people complaining. Seeing a lot of it can be obnoxious, so filter it out.

Let's build the ultimate MMO 1 feature at a time
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/398555/page/1

"blocked nariusseldon since forever"

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4871

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/01/14 3:24:22 PM#25
I honestly do not believe the majority of people thatplay these games care two figs about what someone else is doing or how fast fast they are leveling.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  dave6660

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2350

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

4/01/14 3:30:01 PM#26
Originally posted by Naowut

This proves mmo players are retarded.

If they don't get to be max lvl instantly they cry and moan but when the developers listen and make it easier they also find a reason to cry about it.

 

My opinion? Bring back lvling Lineage2 style.

That was something I liked about L2 back in its early days.  Players didn't really talk about max level much.  It was too far away.  You only looked forward to your next upgrade (and dreaded what it was going to cost).

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  dotdotdash

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/01/11
Posts: 351

4/01/14 3:35:26 PM#27

I think it has a lot to do with HOW those players get to max level so quickly, and not the fact that they've done it, that's the problem.

In most MMOs, players that get to max level in the fastest time possible on launch are not using standard game play techniques. The mechanics they utilise are often only present because they cannot be easily accounted for until they are demonstrated. That being said, the methods used are often limited to a single method of utilising an unintended consequence of a games mechanic. That's a very important definition; we most often refer to these sorts of "extra-mechanical" methods as... exploits.

The most recent example of this sort of method has of course been in The Elder Scrolls Online, where the first level 50 and Emperor in the game used a loophole in the levelling system that allowed an alliance of guilds to bolster a single players progression beyond the natural levelling curve. Unsurprisingly, that's how MOST players the reach cap first do it in MOST MMOs that come out. Some developers work to make this as difficult as possible, whilst others ignore it for the anomaly that it is. And it is an anomaly; after the initial release phase, no one uses that sort of method to level a character. There's no value to it post-release phase.

At that point, it's a matter of culture. Some developers will turn to GM action to control such methods, banning entire guilds in the name of fairness. Others will label it a feet of organisation and dedication, and praise those that manage to muster the forces to make it work.

Whether it is an exploit worth punishing or a valid way to compete for "first to cap" prestige is ultimately up to individual development studios. Personally I don't care, but I can see why some would. And in some games it does indeed devalue the levelling experience, and the sense of competition between players. The levelling curve has long been inconsequential in most games. With that in mind, first to 50 means little. But if there is ever a game where levelling means something again, and it isn't just a rush to cap, then I would probably prefer those exploiting such loopholes be treated as cheaters.

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1831

"I shall take your position into consideration"

4/01/14 3:45:16 PM#28

It is not about other people leveling too fast. It is about possibility to finish the progression part of the game represented by leveling in 1-2 days regardless of your play style.

One of the core aspects of an RPG is progression. It should be one of the major elements in this type of game. Something that is happening throughout the whole time you play the game. It definitely should not be just an activity which you get involved in for a day or two and then play fantasy counter strike in Cyrodil or whatever the zone PvP happens at is called.

Why is the leveling part of the game even there when you can finish it in 2 days? It is absolutely useless in this form. This design makes absolutely no sense.

"If you want slow leveling, then just level slow"

Why would I want to level slow? I want to level effectively and efficiently. However, the game allows you to do this for 2 days. That is the problem. Not that other people level fast. The fact that the game gets labelled MMORPG, but you can play it as an RPG for 2 days.

Getting capped should be a big deal, not something you achieve in one hardcore sitting.

If you dont understand this, then I have no idea what sort of games you have been playing until now, Mr. Spotlight poster.

 

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/01/14 4:02:26 PM#29
Originally posted by coretex666

Why is the leveling part of the game even there when you can finish it in 2 days?

Hmm ... in what game you can finish leveling in 2 days? I think the fastest leveling record in WoW is like 6+ days played .. and that is playing 24/7.

If a SP RPG game can have content for like 80 hours, I don't see why it is so bad if MMORPGs also have 80 hours of leveling content. In fact, you will be getting a steal since most MMOs are now F2P.

 

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1831

"I shall take your position into consideration"

4/01/14 5:33:04 PM#30
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by coretex666

Why is the leveling part of the game even there when you can finish it in 2 days?

Hmm ... in what game you can finish leveling in 2 days? I think the fastest leveling record in WoW is like 6+ days played .. and that is playing 24/7.

If a SP RPG game can have content for like 80 hours, I don't see why it is so bad if MMORPGs also have 80 hours of leveling content. In fact, you will be getting a steal since most MMOs are now F2P.

 

Arent there max level people in TESO already? When has it launched?

 

 

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4769

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/01/14 5:40:45 PM#31
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Aroukos
Originally posted by Robokapp
"you leveled super fast and missed everything. haha joke's on you. Oh wait but now you're ahead of me in gear, I'm behind the curve, can't get into pugs and will need a lot of time to catch up. ITS YOUR FAULT!!!"

 

Ahahahah nice point :)

Imo everybody cares even if they are not admit it. They get nervous when they see ppl who start playing the same day with them, be already max lvl and start dungeons, raids, arenas, endgame pvp or whatever else a game has to offer as endgame content. 

Ppl also hates to see others having faster gearing progression. They feel they have to catch the train in some way. They don't want to stay far behind.

Some others think its an abuse of the in game economy, because everyone sells more expensive the mats, the items and the gear when a new game or an expansion comes out.

Anyway i m not going to say if its right or wrong to thing that way. I m saying its in the human nature :)

But isnt that how new players a month from now will feel. Or what about the players that didnt get into early access?

Not everybody levels at the same pace. What about the guy that AFK most of the time. He may level slow. Should others that arent AFK also be punished because they level faster than the AFK dude?

 

It has no effect on you.

you just described the effect on you and concluded it has no effect on you.

 

what...do we say to this?

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6165

 
OP  4/02/14 1:43:41 AM#32
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Aroukos
Originally posted by Robokapp
"you leveled super fast and missed everything. haha joke's on you. Oh wait but now you're ahead of me in gear, I'm behind the curve, can't get into pugs and will need a lot of time to catch up. ITS YOUR FAULT!!!"

 

Ahahahah nice point :)

Imo everybody cares even if they are not admit it. They get nervous when they see ppl who start playing the same day with them, be already max lvl and start dungeons, raids, arenas, endgame pvp or whatever else a game has to offer as endgame content. 

Ppl also hates to see others having faster gearing progression. They feel they have to catch the train in some way. They don't want to stay far behind.

Some others think its an abuse of the in game economy, because everyone sells more expensive the mats, the items and the gear when a new game or an expansion comes out.

Anyway i m not going to say if its right or wrong to thing that way. I m saying its in the human nature :)

But isnt that how new players a month from now will feel. Or what about the players that didnt get into early access?

Not everybody levels at the same pace. What about the guy that AFK most of the time. He may level slow. Should others that arent AFK also be punished because they level faster than the AFK dude?

 

It has no effect on you.

you just described the effect on you and concluded it has no effect on you.

 

what...do we say to this?

Yes so tell me what these effects are than

  phumbaba

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 95

4/02/14 5:37:15 AM#33

Ok, there are a couple things I thought I'd mention. I'll assume the pov of wanting to take my time and level slowly.

1. Huge amounts of people rushing through has been a governing factor in game design for a long time.

2. As mentioned, due to the design it get's harder to find friends who want to play at your pace. This also translates to group content and practically everything in end game in most games as finding a good guild you want to play with get's harder. Quite fast this begins to resemble a sort of a hierarchy that is not quite natural to the other aspects of the game, but very typical to post wow mmos.

3. Leveling slow is actually quite hard as a) it get's boring if you overlevel, b) missing too much gear due to skipping will spring you back, which also get's boring, c) it's quite a lonely business as mentioned and the game's quality playing that way is typically lower than real SP games.

4. The mentioned design choice is a major factor in determining how much resources are put into fluff and social aspects of games. It could be argued it reduces the games into one dimensional platform games.

So, yes I can complain about it, if you ask about it specifically, but no I don't think it helps much to do so in any game forum and I don't remember ever doing so. At the very least, I don't think the matter reserves your condecending title and OP. Nothing personal tho and it is a good topic:) Usually large groups of people don't complain without a reason, but it is sometimes very likely that their description of the reason is not entirely adequate.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4769

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/02/14 6:39:31 AM#34
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Aroukos
Originally posted by Robokapp
"you leveled super fast and missed everything. haha joke's on you. Oh wait but now you're ahead of me in gear, I'm behind the curve, can't get into pugs and will need a lot of time to catch up. ITS YOUR FAULT!!!"

 

Ahahahah nice point :)

Imo everybody cares even if they are not admit it. They get nervous when they see ppl who start playing the same day with them, be already max lvl and start dungeons, raids, arenas, endgame pvp or whatever else a game has to offer as endgame content. 

Ppl also hates to see others having faster gearing progression. They feel they have to catch the train in some way. They don't want to stay far behind.

Some others think its an abuse of the in game economy, because everyone sells more expensive the mats, the items and the gear when a new game or an expansion comes out.

Anyway i m not going to say if its right or wrong to thing that way. I m saying its in the human nature :)

But isnt that how new players a month from now will feel. Or what about the players that didnt get into early access?

 

It has no effect on you.

you just described the effect on you and concluded it has no effect on you.

Yes so tell me what these effects are than

The effects may include...Feeling hopelessly behind the curve.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4105

4/02/14 6:44:44 AM#35
I agree with you totally OP. I don't care how fast they leveled because it has no effect on me. In fact, take that same player that got to max level first, and put him in an arena environment against the "default" player, and he will probably get his butt handed to him. A player who plays the game as it is designed will tend to have better gear, and a more thorough understanding of his character and the system in general.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Yoofaloof

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/17/07
Posts: 48

4/02/14 7:04:25 AM#36

Players who rush are just annoying to me, but I figure the quicker they level up I won't have to play around them. 

I can be in a room searching for loot, reading books, accepting quests etc and plenty of players can enter and hightail it out before they've even looked around - their loss I suppose.

They can't know what's going on surely? Why play?

Perhaps players who play in this style can explain to us what they get out of it - I'm curious.

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/02/14 12:10:50 PM#37
Originally posted by Yoofaloof

Perhaps players who play in this style can explain to us what they get out of it - I'm curious.

Enjoy the action combat .. and progression?

It is little difference from playing D3 adventure mode and rift ... you go do the bounty not because there is a good story of why you should do that, but because it is an excuse to do fun combat with a wide variety of mobs at different places.

  Flyte27

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2255

4/02/14 2:29:41 PM#38
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Yoofaloof

Perhaps players who play in this style can explain to us what they get out of it - I'm curious.

Enjoy the action combat .. and progression?

It is little difference from playing D3 adventure mode and rift ... you go do the bounty not because there is a good story of why you should do that, but because it is an excuse to do fun combat with a wide variety of mobs at different places.

I enjoyed Diablo type combat a lot 15 years ago, but now it feels a little slow.  I've been playing Borderlands 2 and it seems to have pretty good combat.  It's similar to Dead Island.  I like being able to jump and move the camera.  I generally reserve overhead view for strategy games where you control multiple characters at the same time.  If this game came out 15 years ago I would probably be playing it as much as I did Diablo 1 and 2.  For me it is a fun game, but I can't work up the motivation to play through over and over again to get better equipment.  It's to much like endgame in modern MMOs.

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/02/14 2:44:59 PM#39
Originally posted by Flyte27
 

I enjoyed Diablo type combat a lot 15 years ago, but now it feels a little slow.  I've been playing Borderlands 2 and it seems to have pretty good combat.  It's similar to Dead Island.  I like being able to jump and move the camera.  I generally reserve overhead view for strategy games where you control multiple characters at the same time.  If this game came out 15 years ago I would probably be playing it as much as I did Diablo 1 and 2.  For me it is a fun game, but I can't work up the motivation to play through over and over again to get better equipment.  It's to much like endgame in modern MMOs.

I enjoyed Diablo type combat 15 years ago, and I enjoy D3 combat more time because it has been updated with so many new effects, and it is much faster than the slow fight 3 mobs max at a time MMO combat.

I played Borderlands 1 & 2 too .. they are great games. However, for shooting mechanics, i enjoy Call of Juarez more (game-wise borderland is better because of the RPG elements). I also like stealth mechanics in both Dishonored and Deus Ex. Different types of fun though. D3 is much faster pace .. while stealth combat is more planning, and execute in a few seconds.

And yes, i agree D3 is much like modern MMO endgame ... that is why i often say "it is close enough to MMOs to me". And it can be enjoyed 100% solo without the need for working with a group. In fact, i love it when they up the random dungeon part of the game and created the rift ... just go and do fun combat, and get rewarded ... and test your builds in between. Don't need stories, RPing, trading, or any of those things. Even crafting is about hunting the rare drop, without boggling the game down.

 

 

  Flyte27

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2255

4/02/14 5:22:56 PM#40
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Flyte27
 

I enjoyed Diablo type combat a lot 15 years ago, but now it feels a little slow.  I've been playing Borderlands 2 and it seems to have pretty good combat.  It's similar to Dead Island.  I like being able to jump and move the camera.  I generally reserve overhead view for strategy games where you control multiple characters at the same time.  If this game came out 15 years ago I would probably be playing it as much as I did Diablo 1 and 2.  For me it is a fun game, but I can't work up the motivation to play through over and over again to get better equipment.  It's to much like endgame in modern MMOs.

I enjoyed Diablo type combat 15 years ago, and I enjoy D3 combat more time because it has been updated with so many new effects, and it is much faster than the slow fight 3 mobs max at a time MMO combat.

I played Borderlands 1 & 2 too .. they are great games. However, for shooting mechanics, i enjoy Call of Juarez more (game-wise borderland is better because of the RPG elements). I also like stealth mechanics in both Dishonored and Deus Ex. Different types of fun though. D3 is much faster pace .. while stealth combat is more planning, and execute in a few seconds.

And yes, i agree D3 is much like modern MMO endgame ... that is why i often say "it is close enough to MMOs to me". And it can be enjoyed 100% solo without the need for working with a group. In fact, i love it when they up the random dungeon part of the game and created the rift ... just go and do fun combat, and get rewarded ... and test your builds in between. Don't need stories, RPing, trading, or any of those things. Even crafting is about hunting the rare drop, without boggling the game down.

 

 

I only mention Borderlands and Dead Island because they are four player (options) games with a lot of loot grinding.  Both games are far longer and have a bit more involvement in combat IMO.  I still prefer some of the games you mentioned and a few others over that loot grind style games.  I used to find it fun to an extent because I would compete with my friends or even random people running to get the loot or to kill a mob, but not so much anymore.  Such a tactic isn't valid these days anyway.  Now I generally prefer to just have a good story.  To much looting can be tedious.  Even in EQ I found the leveling a lot more satisfying then getting new loot.  Once the leveling stopped and getting lots of new spells stopped I wasn't as interested anymore.

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