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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Did solo players destroy MMOPRG

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256 posts found
  ikcin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/13
Posts: 383

 
OP  3/22/14 7:05:24 PM#1
Look at games like GW2, ESO, WildStar, and so many others, they are not MMORPGs, but single player, with few multiplayer features. All they have or will have terrible community and guild system compare to Lineage 2 for example. Every one of these games finish with max level and with the end of the personal story. PvP, trading, crafting, all are meaningless. The competition is limited to some stupid pret-a-porter - see my armor is more fancy than yours! There is no AAA MMORPGs anymore, cause devs make games for solo players. Or I'm wrong?

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5366

3/22/14 7:10:03 PM#2

Yes but not in the way you think.

Back in 1999 - I soloed group content in EQ1 just by figuring out some skill combos in game (that later became staples of playing different classes such as swarming, root-rotting, etc...). I wasn't the only one obviously but there was a small % of players that were playing their classes in unforseen ways by the devs and advancing far faster than the rest of the playerbase.

The devs of EQ1 never intended bards to be able to pull 30 even or yellow cons and kill them all without getting hit once - just one example. (just recently I did a 100+ mob pull in P1999 on my bard in Overthere - yeah talk about dinging a level in one pull)

Players finding unintended loopholes in gameplay is what killed group oriented gameplay early on, and then later it was simply mass player preference - the devs simply made games the masses wanted - aka SOLO MMORPGs.

 

  rochrist

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/06
Posts: 84

3/22/14 7:13:28 PM#3

Oh joy. Let's revisit the question for the 300,000th time. This year.

 

 

  hallucigenocide

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/18/14
Posts: 292

3/22/14 7:14:43 PM#4
Originally posted by DMKano

Yes but not in the way you think.

Back in 1999 - I soloed group content in EQ1 just by figuring out some skill combos in game (that later became staples of playing different classes such as swarming, root-rotting, etc...).

The devs of EQ1 never intended bards to be able to pull 30 even or yellow cons and kill them all without getting hit once - just one example.

Players finding unintended loopholes in gameplay is what killed group oriented gameplay early on, and then later it was simply mass player preference - the devs simply made games the masses wanted - aka SOLO MMORPGs.

 

sounds more like bad design to me.. like certain classes being able to solo current raid bosses in that game wich we do not speak of :P 

kek

  Ariely

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 68

3/22/14 7:17:44 PM#5
Originally posted by ikcin
Look at games like GW2, ESO, WildStar, and so many others, they are not MMORPGs, but single player, with few multiplayer features. All they have or will have terrible community and guild system compare to Lineage 2 for example. Every one of these games finish with max level and with the end of the personal story. PvP, trading, crafting, all are meaningless. The competition is limited to some stupid pret-a-porter - see my armor is more fancy than yours! There is no AAA MMORPGs anymore, cause devs make games for solo players. Or I'm wrong?

what? and " group " based players aren't like that?

as a solo player myself, my opinion, the titel of this thread is fk' retarded.

No we did not destroy it, u know what did? lazy people, greedy people, and those people could be solo or group play based.

so pointing the finger at solo players is wrong, i enjoy my journey  in games,( quest, exploring, crafting, etc) to the fullest solo-ing or most of  it anyway and i enjoy group content to.

 

  MrNo

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 94

The Shadow has nothing on me. This I know.

3/22/14 7:18:30 PM#6

I would have to say no only because Devs make games that appeal to the masses. So if todays gamers want solo play by the masses and if it a model that works and they make a boat load of cash. Ya, you better believe it they will make solo accessible in your favorite MMO. We have SWTOR to thank because they took solo play to the next level and guess what it is still going strong.

 

Mr. No knows. ;p

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5550

3/22/14 7:18:45 PM#7
MMORPGs aren't destroyed and there is actually a huge variety of different types of MMORPGs right now.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  zzax

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/09/09
Posts: 113

3/22/14 7:20:27 PM#8

Fully agree with you on this one OP!

Think if you were fan of Justin Bieber and I convinced him to play Death Metal - how would you feel? ;)

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1917

3/22/14 7:23:44 PM#9
The industry's desire to appeal to console gamers and everyone's push for arcade gameplay is what is most likely diminishing grouping, system complexity, world building, community and MMO(RPG)s in particular.

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/22/14 9:00:01 PM#10
Originally posted by ikcin
Look at games like GW2, ESO, WildStar, and so many others, they are not MMORPGs, but single player, with few multiplayer features. All they have or will have terrible community and guild system compare to Lineage 2 for example. Every one of these games finish with max level and with the end of the personal story. PvP, trading, crafting, all are meaningless. The competition is limited to some stupid pret-a-porter - see my armor is more fancy than yours! There is no AAA MMORPGs anymore, cause devs make games for solo players. Or I'm wrong?

Everything you stated was pretty much the same in most old games.

Few multiplayer features - nope.  about the same as most old games.

Terrible communities - about the same as most old games.

Max level - same as most old games

PVP, Trading, crafting meaningless - about the same as most old games

Competition limited to look at my armor - about the same as most old games.

 

So based on your criteria I'd have to say No, Soloers did not destroy mmorpgs, based on your criteria there is no difference. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19773

3/22/14 9:00:16 PM#11
Originally posted by ikcin
Look at games like GW2, ESO, WildStar, and so many others, they are not MMORPGs, but single player, with few multiplayer features. All they have or will have terrible community and guild system compare to Lineage 2 for example. Every one of these games finish with max level and with the end of the personal story. PvP, trading, crafting, all are meaningless. The competition is limited to some stupid pret-a-porter - see my armor is more fancy than yours! There is no AAA MMORPGs anymore, cause devs make games for solo players. Or I'm wrong?

It is just semantics. I don't particularly care if those games are called MMORPGs or not. It is just a convenient label.

However, if you have to think of them as MMORPGs that are changed ... well ...

think of them as new and improved (for some but not all players) MMORPGs. Solo players destroyed the old, and enable the new MMORPGs.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19773

3/22/14 9:02:07 PM#12
Originally posted by Vorthanion
The industry's desire to appeal to console gamers and everyone's push for arcade gameplay is what is most likely diminishing grouping, system complexity, world building, community and MMO(RPG)s in particular.

diminishing grouping .. yes

diminishing world build ... yes

diminishing community ... yes

diminishing system complexity .... doubtful .... combat systems are more complex and more fun (at least to me) today than UO/EQ times.

And i think it is great .. because i don't play games to group, or for the community.

 

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/22/14 9:02:32 PM#13

Your going to have to stop with the semantics argument.

Sementics is using a different word that means the same thing to describe the same situation.  E.G. this isn't my child it's my kid - different words same thing.  (not referring to a goat). 

If the word means something different, or is referring to different things then it isn't semantics. 

Edit - Semantics is about meaning.  If the words you are using have no meaning then you are just spouting random noises.  Meaning is the single most important point in any communication.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Lissyl

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 248

Why yes, I DO like healing and the Trinity!

3/22/14 9:06:23 PM#14

You live in a society that idolizes the individual and the nurtures competition to the point that it can split an atom, set before them a game where the absolute highest mark of skill is to be able to solo something that requires a group...then wonder why people started soloing instead of relying on groups?  And when the devs saw people soloing, they made more solo content, which brought in more people with a lower skill bar who would also play solo content, and that brought in more...

 

No, solo content didn't destroy MMO's.  Trying to make a social organization that is 100% counter to the culture did, because it was only a matter of time until people sought to break forced social bonds.  People do -not- like being told they -must- do something, especially when it involves other people.

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3696

3/22/14 9:20:43 PM#15
Originally posted by zzax

Fully agree with you on this one OP!

Think if you were fan of Justin Bieber and I convinced him to play Death Metal - how would you feel? ;)

It would be a vast improvement?

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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  Gormogon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 156

3/22/14 9:22:25 PM#16

They may have helped ruin MMORPGs for players who prefer social interaction being a requirement to achieve the more meaningful things in a game, but people who choose to play around people rather than with them make up the vast majority of the consumer side of the market.  Blizzard saw the solo gamer as the ticket to continued growth and systematically removed all reliance on other players in WoW.  It worked.  Today, developers are just making the games that the majority of the market wants.   The old codgers lament these games that can't hold one's attention past 200 hours, but that is how single-player RPGs are played: you play through the story, get all the achievements/uber stuff you want, and then move on to the next game.   It sucks if you're looking for a different type of game, and I think it's unfortunate that there is a demand there that isn't being met by today's major commercial MMORPGs, but there's no monumental shift back coming.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19773

3/22/14 9:32:45 PM#17
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Your going to have to stop with the semantics argument.

Sementics is using a different word that means the same thing to describe the same situation.  E.G. this isn't my child it's my kid - different words same thing.  (not referring to a goat). 

If the word means something different, or is referring to different things then it isn't semantics. 

Edit - Semantics is about meaning.  If the words you are using have no meaning then you are just spouting random noises.  Meaning is the single most important point in any communication.

exactly ... MMORPG .. the label ... does not mean much now. It is all diluted.

And why would i stop using a perfectly good argument? Just because you don't like it?

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19773

3/22/14 9:34:00 PM#18
Originally posted by Lissyl

No, solo content didn't destroy MMO's.  Trying to make a social organization that is 100% counter to the culture did, because it was only a matter of time until people sought to break forced social bonds.  People do -not- like being told they -must- do something, especially when it involves other people.

This is a good argument. I always say i don't depend on other for my fun. I guess this is a good way to explain way.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19773

3/22/14 9:35:21 PM#19
Originally posted by Gormogon

They may have helped ruin MMORPGs for players who prefer social interaction being a requirement to achieve the more meaningful things in a game, but people who choose to play around people rather than with them make up the vast majority of the consumer side of the market.  Blizzard saw the solo gamer as the ticket to continued growth and systematically removed all reliance on other players in WoW.  It worked.  Today, developers are just making the games that the majority of the market wants.   The old codgers lament these games that can't hold one's attention past 200 hours, but that is how single-player RPGs are played: you play through the story, get all the achievements/uber stuff you want, and then move on to the next game.   It sucks if you're looking for a different type of game, and I think it's unfortunate that there is a demand there that isn't being met by today's major commercial MMORPGs, but there's no monumental shift back coming.

I hope not. If all games require social interactions, i will quit gaming and go back to anime/movies/novels ... and other entertainment.

 

  LuthorX

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/01/14
Posts: 108

3/22/14 9:35:34 PM#20

Umm, no!

 

The watered-down, asshat player base is what destroyed mmo's.

Death comes for us all!

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