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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The world is the most important thing in an MMO

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  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

3/21/14 6:28:52 PM#181
Originally posted by DEAD.line

As for the part in red, i really, really hope you're being sarcastic. If not, you do realize D3 has rocks, trees and water, right? They don't make the game more fun either, so remove them.


 

i consider that part of the background graphics. If they take away all the rocks, and the environment still looks good, i probably would not care. In fact, there is no trees and grass in the dessert zone.

The point is that I am all for making the zone looks good (for example, add some rain/snow effect, i wouldn't mind) but don't do it just because and reduces the amount of fun (like waiting for NPCs to wake up, or go to bathroom).

 

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

3/21/14 6:31:21 PM#182
Originally posted by Flyte27
 

It may be bad design to you, but it's not to everyone.  OMG I have to wait a bit for night time to come around (god forbid).  There are so much more important things I could be doing right now and I have can't think of anything else to pass the time.

Yes, god forbid. I don't want any waiting in an entertainment product. Sure, i can do other stuff (like watch a movie, or play another game), but why should i?

If a entertainment product is not entertaining, i go somewhere else.

And yes, it is bad design, only to me. I am very clear that it is my preference. If you don't mind being bored and alt-tab to surf the net while waiting for the night-time in a game, good for you. Just don't expect me to use such as badly (for me) designed product.

 

  Flyte27

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2255

3/21/14 6:35:58 PM#183
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Flyte27
 

It may be bad design to you, but it's not to everyone.  OMG I have to wait a bit for night time to come around (god forbid).  There are so much more important things I could be doing right now and I have can't think of anything else to pass the time.

Yes, god forbid. I don't want any waiting in an entertainment product. Sure, i can do other stuff (like watch a movie, or play another game), but why should i?

If a entertainment product is not entertaining, i go somewhere else.

And yes, it is bad design, only to me. I am very clear that it is my preference. If you don't mind being bored and alt-tab to surf the net while waiting for the night-time in a game, good for you. Just don't expect me to use such as badly (for me) designed product.

 

It's not bad design to me.  What I was suggesting is go do something else in the game.  Either way the way you make it sound is like you have something so important you can't wait for a bit for an NPC to arrive.  Is that bad game design or is it that you have ADD or something of that nature that is preventing you from being able to have the patience to wait for something?  It's not like you have to wait all day for it to turn night.  Probably 15 minutes to a half hour.  You could go grind some more mobs and get some more loot since you seem to like doing that in Diablo 3.

  Asm0deus

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 920

3/21/14 6:40:50 PM#184
Originally posted by Tbau

World does not equal quality gameplay.

You can have a large detailed world and the worst gameplay making the game worthless.

And SWG proved that you can have horrible worlds that were created with a random generator and end up with a great game anway, just with gameplay.

So, no. The world is not the most important thing, but it doesn't hurt to have one that is well designed.

No one is saying are gameplay is not important. A good mmorpg should have quality gameplay AND a quality world.  The problem we have here is that some people think moba, and other such games like D3 are mmorpgs. They are not.

No one saying world are important for every genres but like wise claiming worlds are NOT important in any genres MMORPG in particular is asinine. That doesn't mean game play isn't important to these games.

 

I wish some people would stop bringing MOBA's and D3 into this as they are not mmorpgs.

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  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

3/21/14 6:46:50 PM#185
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DEAD.line

As for the part in red, i really, really hope you're being sarcastic. If not, you do realize D3 has rocks, trees and water, right? They don't make the game more fun either, so remove them.


 

i consider that part of the background graphics. If they take away all the rocks, and the environment still looks good, i probably would not care. In fact, there is no trees and grass in the dessert zone.

The point is that I am all for making the zone looks good (for example, add some rain/snow effect, i wouldn't mind) but don't do it just because and reduces the amount of fun (like waiting for NPCs to wake up, or go to bathroom).

 

Time to bust out some Nari logic...

Skyrim has a day and night cycle, it sold 20 million copies.  Diablo 3 doesn't have a day and night cycle and it only sold 15 million.  Therefore, the market has spoken and Skyrim is clearly what the people want.  Every game should have a day and night cycle.

On a more serious note, trying to rip a single feature out of its context and discuss its individual merits by applying it to other random games is pointless.

It's like saying "basil in a terrible ingredient because it's horrible on peanut butter and jelly."

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

3/21/14 6:54:49 PM#186
Originally posted by Flyte27

 

It's not bad design to me.  What I was suggesting is go do something else in the game.  Either way the way you make it sound is like you have something so important you can't wait for a bit for an NPC to arrive.  Is that bad game design or is it that you have ADD or something of that nature that is preventing you from being able to have the patience to wait for something?  It's not like you have to wait all day for it to turn night.  Probably 15 minutes to a half hour.  You could go grind some more mobs and get some more loot since you seem to like doing that in Diablo 3.

well .. i don't see a reason to have patience when i use entertainment products. I don't take 15 minutes intermission (unless i need a drink or bathroom) when i watch a tv show, and i don't want a 15 min intermission in games.

Now when i play games, i am not waiting for 15 min, or even 5 min. I suppose i have to wait for the game to load, but that i have no choice.

If it is not a true "wait", that there is something interesting to do, (as part of the story, you are waiting and then something fun happen), then it is ok. But from the SKYRIM model, there is really nothing happening in the middle of the night in the street in front of the vendor. Even that game has a fast-forward button. It would be horrible in a MMO without  a fast forward button ... for me, of course.

 

  Tbau

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/14
Posts: 407

3/21/14 6:56:23 PM#187
Originally posted by Asm0deus
Originally posted by Tbau

World does not equal quality gameplay.

You can have a large detailed world and the worst gameplay making the game worthless.

And SWG proved that you can have horrible worlds that were created with a random generator and end up with a great game anway, just with gameplay.

So, no. The world is not the most important thing, but it doesn't hurt to have one that is well designed.

No one is saying are gameplay is not important. A good moo should have quality gameplay AND a quality world.  The problem we have here is that some people think moba, and other such games like D# are mmorpgs. They are not.

No one saying world are important for every genres but like wise claiming worlds are NOT important in any genres MMORPG in particular is asinine. That doesn't mean game play isn't important to these games.

 The OP is stating that the world is the most important part in an MMO, he does not even mention MOBAs, he specifically mentions SWTOR as the type he doesn't like. And I also provided an example of a generic world MMO that was great, SWG. Which BTW was not a MOBA and I also never said that someone stated gameplay is not important, I SAID it was the most important thing.

World = not most important thing. My point, against that of the thread.

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

3/21/14 6:56:39 PM#188
Originally posted by Creslin321

On a more serious note, trying to rip a single feature out of its context and discuss its individual merits by applying it to other random games is pointless.

 

By that logic, talking about a world (a single feature applying to random games), or daily/night cycle (single feature out of its context) is pointless.

Yeah, this topic is pretty pointless from your point of view.

From my view, it is a lot of fun.

 

  Asm0deus

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 920

3/21/14 7:03:11 PM#189
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Flyte27

 

It's not bad design to me.  What I was suggesting is go do something else in the game.  Either way the way you make it sound is like you have something so important you can't wait for a bit for an NPC to arrive.  Is that bad game design or is it that you have ADD or something of that nature that is preventing you from being able to have the patience to wait for something?  It's not like you have to wait all day for it to turn night.  Probably 15 minutes to a half hour.  You could go grind some more mobs and get some more loot since you seem to like doing that in Diablo 3.

well .. i don't see a reason to have patience when i use entertainment products. I don't take 15 minutes intermission (unless i need a drink or bathroom) when i watch a tv show, and i don't want a 15 min intermission in games.

Now when i play games, i am not waiting for 15 min, or even 5 min. I suppose i have to wait for the game to load, but that i have no choice.

If it is not a true "wait", that there is something interesting to do, (as part of the story, you are waiting and then something fun happen), then it is ok. But from the SKYRIM model, there is really nothing happening in the middle of the night in the street in front of the vendor. Even that game has a fast-forward button. It would be horrible in a MMO without  a fast forward button ... for me, of course.

 

Heh you must really have fit when watching tv shows  and a commercial comes on!  Sometimes i am short on time and will play some POE but that doesn't mean I have throw patience out the window. It is a virtue you know and very very useful in life unless you want to have a heart attack early on.

 

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  daltanious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1906

3/21/14 7:05:26 PM#190
Originally posted by tixylix

If the MMO has no world, it is dead from the get go, it stops being an MMO and just becomes an online game. SWTOR, AoC, Warhammer Online, The Elder Scrolls Online etc, they all suffer from it, there is no world. You ....

......

Give me a proper world, I want to feel attached to a world again like I was with Norrath or Azeroth... what MMO can you say that about today? None, they don't have worlds any more.

Have you ever been happy in your life? :-) I was and I'm still. For this reason I have enjoyed (and many still do) Wow, Warhammer, Swtor, ..... That "transition" of yours was between zoones were NEVER EVER able to ruin "feeling of big great world, seamless, ... etc etc".

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

3/21/14 7:07:40 PM#191
Originally posted by Asm0deus
 

Heh you must really have fit when watching tv shows  and a commercial comes on!  Sometimes i am short on time and will play some POE but that doesn't mean I have throw patience out the window. It is a virtue you know and very very useful in life unless you want to have a heart attack early on.

 

That is why i generally try to catch tv shows without commercial (like netflix). Obviously i have to endure it if i cannot.

Patience may be a virtue in life, but in playing video games? Playing video game itself is not a virtue from the start .... and i also don't confuse video games with real life.

(For example, i don't social in games .. you don't think i don't social in real life, do you?)

 

  Asm0deus

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 920

3/21/14 7:23:44 PM#192
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Asm0deus
 

Heh you must really have fit when watching tv shows  and a commercial comes on!  Sometimes i am short on time and will play some POE but that doesn't mean I have throw patience out the window. It is a virtue you know and very very useful in life unless you want to have a heart attack early on.

 

That is why i generally try to catch tv shows without commercial (like netflix). Obviously i have to endure it if i cannot.

Patience may be a virtue in life, but in playing video games? Playing video game itself is not a virtue from the start .... and i also don't confuse video games with real life.

(For example, i don't social in games .. you don't think i don't social in real life, do you?)

 

I think you miss the point again there's a term in french, les enfants roi and I think it explains much on some of the new attitudes we see in many gamers.

As for patience it's like many other virtues it needs to be practiced and nurtured all the time.  

I think if your impatient or a jerk in a mmorpg there's a good chance you are one in real life.  Like it or not mmorpgs have a social element to them and how we are in them represents who we are at least to those you interact with in them.

From this post of yours I gather you don't socialize in your mmorpg so what is the point of playing one, you could be playing games better suited to you.   I mean why play with others, go in a group finder system if you do not want to "interact/socialize and only intend to use other players as glorified npc's?

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  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7307

3/21/14 7:26:10 PM#193


Originally posted by nariusseldon

(For example, i don't social in games .. you don't think i don't social in real life, do you?)
 

You know the answer...

  Flyte27

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 2255

3/21/14 7:26:39 PM#194
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Asm0deus
 

Heh you must really have fit when watching tv shows  and a commercial comes on!  Sometimes i am short on time and will play some POE but that doesn't mean I have throw patience out the window. It is a virtue you know and very very useful in life unless you want to have a heart attack early on.

 

That is why i generally try to catch tv shows without commercial (like netflix). Obviously i have to endure it if i cannot.

Patience may be a virtue in life, but in playing video games? Playing video game itself is not a virtue from the start .... and i also don't confuse video games with real life.

(For example, i don't social in games .. you don't think i don't social in real life, do you?)

 

I think it depends on how you look at it.  For instance most RPGs derive from stories of people who had to past tests of virtue.  One of those tests was of patience many times.  To be playing and RPG and not be showing patience seems like an oxymoron.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7307

3/21/14 7:26:40 PM#195

Yeah...lol

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4872

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/21/14 11:04:46 PM#196
PatIence is only a virtue if the result of the patience is of value to you. Many times the result is not worth it. In those cases PatIence was a liability.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

3/22/14 12:19:59 AM#197
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Creslin321

On a more serious note, trying to rip a single feature out of its context and discuss its individual merits by applying it to other random games is pointless.

 

By that logic, talking about a world (a single feature applying to random games), or daily/night cycle (single feature out of its context) is pointless.

Yeah, this topic is pretty pointless from your point of view.

From my view, it is a lot of fun.

 

Nah it's not pointless to discuss the world in MMORPGs because by specifying MMORPGs you are giving virtual world features context.  Specifically, the virtual world of an MMORPG.

My point is that you can't just say that virtual world doesn't matter in a game that isn't even an MMORPG and use that as an argument.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

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